Shoutbox

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Originally posted by Peri
I believe in God not only because I believe what the Bible says but also because I find it difficult to accept that earth's creation was a coincidence. If you look at it from a rational point of view it's impossible to explain how the first particle of matter was formed.

I believe that the human being is so complex (digestive system, respiratory system, and more importantly, our ability to think and reason, etc) that it's hard for me to imagine that it was all the result of a coincidence or a random formation of atoms. That's very unlikely according to the theory of probability.

But it's not only the human being, it's earth itself. Everything (including the universe) is so complex that (in my opinion) it's absurd to believe that all this is the result of the "Big Bang". It's not only the complexity, but also the fact that earth is beautiful: water, trees, mountains, grass, and as such I believe it must have had an "architect and builder" (a creator).

I would also like to say that just because we can't see something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, although of course, at the end of the day it's all a question of beliefs.

Anyway, that's basically the reason why I believe in God. I probably didn't explain it properly but I hope you understand me.

(translation by segosa)

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its funny, i have the exact opposite view, all those things you mentioned, the complexity of humans, the univirse, and so on, i feel are all part of a cosmic balance.

if there really is a "creator god" why is there so little "proof", other then hearsay and passed down writings, and another thing, why is there so meny different "gods". one (or more) for every religion. if so, which is the true god, and which one made everything, they can't all have done it, and if they did, why doesn't every religion mention them all.

it all just has too meny holes, unlike science, which is based purly on fact

I believe in God, because it just makes sense to me.. I'm christian, but I'm kind of like my own christian.. I don't believe in popestuff etc.. I think every religion has some kind of truth

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Originally posted by NiteMare

it all just has too meny holes, unlike science, which is based purly on fact

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I'm not trying to start anything, but isn't it a bit dodgy to think science is at it's peak? just a for instance, but what if God did in fact create all mankind, he created you, he created science.. don't you think he would have the ability to shield himself from his own creation? or are we just that arrogant? to think that we own everything and that we know everything, but that mankind's really just a child in life.. anyway, just my opinion.. I don't need a reply, because frankly, nothing you will say will convince me otherwise, nor do I expect this to change you

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Originally posted by NiteMare

quote:

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Originally posted by Peri
I believe in God not only because I believe what the Bible says but also because I find it difficult to accept that earth's creation was a coincidence. If you look at it from a rational point of view it's impossible to explain how the first particle of matter was formed.

I believe that the human being is so complex (digestive system, respiratory system, and more importantly, our ability to think and reason, etc) that it's hard for me to imagine that it was all the result of a coincidence or a random formation of atoms. That's very unlikely according to the theory of probability.

But it's not only the human being, it's earth itself. Everything (including the universe) is so complex that (in my opinion) it's absurd to believe that all this is the result of the "Big Bang". It's not only the complexity, but also the fact that earth is beautiful: water, trees, mountains, grass, and as such I believe it must have had an "architect and builder" (a creator).

I would also like to say that just because we can't see something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, although of course, at the end of the day it's all a question of beliefs.

Anyway, that's basically the reason why I believe in God. I probably didn't explain it properly but I hope you understand me.

(translation by segosa)

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its funny, i have the exact opposite view, all those things you mentioned, the complexity of humans, the univirse, and so on, i feel are all part of a cosmic balance.

if there really is a "creator god" why is there so little "proof", other then hearsay and passed down writings, and another thing, why is there so meny different "gods". one (or more) for every religion. if so, which is the true god, and which one made everything, they can't all have done it, and if they did, why doesn't every religion mention them all.

it all just has too meny holes, unlike science, which is based purly on fact

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I think there is only one God, the different religions are just different points of view and ways to adore him. That's just what I believe, though

(translated* by segosa, again! ) <--- and corrected by segosa too =p

I'm just not sure if he does and I'm leaning towards to just saying i dont belive in him

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Originally posted by NiteMare
unlike science, which is based purly on fact

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science is based on theory (well... when you get to the physics side of it, which is the most relevant to the whole religion stuff )

Actually I read in some posts here about god being god in every religion even if they had names. Well budism doesn't have a god... It has buda wich is a man ascended to elightnment. (Don't think I'm a religious freak because i know this, I don't belive in any of that religion things). And about the creation of the first mater particle. Well acutally it has a way of being explained... You see when 2 photons crash into each other in a great speed they create a proton and an anti-pront. Hydrogen is a one proton atom. Then all those attoms join creating a star wich with the pressure and temperature fuse 2 of those atoms creating an Helium atom, and 2 helium atoms fuse to create an iron atom and so on and so on. And all atoms that we know were created in the stars by fusing other lighter atoms. Then those atoms are released from the stars by solar winds and such and then because of the stars gravity they join together in planets and moons and then if a planet is at the right distance from its sun and it has the right mass and components it might create a atmosfere and then who know water may appear and then the first life form made of the material in that primordial soup. And the simple life form might evolve and one day turn into inteligent beings such like us. So you see here it, the most accepted theory, praticly proved and god isn't metioned even one time in it. It is just simple has a bright universe turning its light into mater and the mater "evolving" by itself until one day we appear and just who knows maybe other planets were the right size and distance from their suns to have life...

I believe in God not because He has shown Himself to me, but because He revealed Himself to me.
I believe in God not because a prayer I said came true, but because most prayers I said came true (including my family said).
I believe in God not because I believe what the Bible says, but because I read, analyzed, contemplated on the Bible.
I believe in God not because my parents did, but because they did not and I searched. Now they do.
I believe in God not because of what my school taught me, but because .
I believe in God not because I want there to be some point to life, but because I know there is some point to life.
I believe in God not because I want to go to heaven when I die, but because after I read and considering the truth, I know that the heaven (and hell) is real.
I believe in God not because everyone else does, but because not everyone does (just look at the number of people who voted "I don't believe in God" )

To those who ask for a physical proof that God is real, I'm sorry to say that it is almost impossible if it's not possible at all.
Think about this, many people saw Jesus 2000 years ago, yet they didn't believe in Him.
Would you believe if I say nasi gudeg from Jogjakarta, Indonesia is very delicious and tasty? Or that Bali is beautiful?
Maybe you'll say no. But I can say that it's a tasty dish and it is real.
You might say it is not true just because you haven't seen Bali, but it's real.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." (Hebrew 11:1)

It's all about faith.
The simplest definition of faith is believing something you cannot see.
You, in some point of your life, must have experienced it.
Not knowing you'd be able to do it, but you did it, and it worked.
It's the same thing like believing in God, but you cannot push/force it.
You can merely experience it.

There is absolutely no point of debating whether God is real or unreal.
Let say people who believe in God "lose" the debate, people who don't believe will think that God is "proven" unreal at least in these forums.
If people who believe in God "win" the debate, people who don't believe will think the arrogancy of people who do.

Most science are changing facts or assumptions (or even "better" word, theory).
I do enjoy reading news in which the scientists were puzzled with their own discoveries. But then they declared they've found new discoveries that had been there since the universe was created.

So there, I've expressed my opinion and will read this thread from time to time without posting further reply.

quote:

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Originally posted by Zeh
Actually I read in some posts here about god being god in every religion even if they had names. Well budism doesn't have a god... It has buda wich is a man ascended to elightnment. (Don't think I'm a religious freak because i know this, I don't belive in any of that religion things). And about the creation of the first mater particle. Well acutally it has a way of being explained... You see when 2 photons crash into each other in a great speed they create a proton and an anti-pront. Hydrogen is a one proton atom. Then all those attoms join creating a star wich with the pressure and temperature fuse 2 of those atoms creating an Helium atom, and 2 helium atoms fuse to create an iron atom and so on and so on. And all atoms that we know were created in the stars by fusing other lighter atoms. Then those atoms are released from the stars by solar winds and such and then because of the stars gravity they join together in planets and moons and then if a planet is at the right distance from its sun and it has the right mass and components it might create a atmosfere and then who know water may appear and then the first life form made of the material in that primordial soup. And the simple life form might evolve and one day turn into inteligent beings such like us. So you see here it, the most accepted theory, praticly proved and god isn't metioned even one time in it. It is just simple has a bright universe turning its light into mater and the mater "evolving" by itself until one day we appear and just who knows maybe other planets were the right size and distance from their suns to have life...

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that doesn't explain the origin of the photons, or another energy type, I think that this universe doesn't have a "beginning" but how is this possible? I don't believe that it can be explained of a human point of view because I believe in "a superior entity"

And, I agree completely with thekid

i agree 200% with peri. i was just going to write the exact same thing.

Evolution wasn't exactly an "accident," or a coincidental arrangement of atoms. The very definition of evolution says we started off as bacteria with only one cell, and our protiens logically "decided" to reproduce cells that can better help themself survive. The difference between us today and previous humans is clear -- we're smarter, and can survive easier. This improvement wasn't "random" -- We improved ourselves.