Shoutbox

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Originally posted by markee
This can be easily compensated for if we just get a little "Sort by Date Create"/"Sort by Name" feature. And I personally would prefer it, but realistically it is not a necessity.

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All the windows file system datetime stamps are very unreliable since all they all can and will easly be altered, even unwillingly.

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Originally posted by topbanana
The registry should be the place you head to when you have some non-standard/rare needs to be catered for.

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And since only you and a small hand full of others are the only ones who seem to be having problems with the way it is, it is safe to assume that this is such a rare need.

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Originally posted by topbanana
Simple, set the Save By Email option as default, and change the default filename registry entries to give us a format like above.  No GUI changes needed.

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That is extremely unfriendly to the user. Not only are you then forcing a radical change upon the user without its consent, it would also create a big mess in the existing log directories and people will start to complain for sure!

If such a change is being introduced it must be accompanied with a well thought GUI change and even a possible way to convert the existing directories to the new system if the user wishes so.

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Don't get me wrong, but reading your posts I get the feeling you're a very knowledgeable PC/IT user. The average people using Messenger and Plus! are not. While we, savy PC users, have no problems with dealing such situations, registry changes, advanced options and settings, the average user is certainly not. You need to look at all this from their POV. The change you propose is good in my eyes too, but it is not possible and not easy to do just-like-that. Moreover, there does not seem to be a big request for this either.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

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Originally posted by markee
This can be easily compensated for if we just get a little "Sort by Date Create"/"Sort by Name" feature. And I personally would prefer it, but realistically it is not a necessity.

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All the windows file system datetime stamps are very unreliable since all they all can and will easly be altered, even unwillingly.

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Yeah, I realise that, that's why I said date created rather than modified.  I know that it is easy to stuff up (like just moving to another computer for instance) but it should help mos of the time, and having a button (or radio control) or something to quickly change between them is better than nothing IMHO.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
And since only you and a small hand full of others are the only ones who seem to be having problems with the way it is, it is safe to assume that this is such a rare need.

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Us, the small handful, are the ones that decided to ask for an improvement to a failing in the software.  It's pretty sensible to assume that some users of Messenger Plus don't use the logs at all...  Then a large % of those that do will be people that just get on with it and accept the way it works as set in stone... They'll get a little miffed when trying to search thru the logs one day, but they'll deal with it.  Then you'll have a group of people that find out they can change the registry entries and get on with it.  Then you've got people that want it changed, but just can't be arsed to do/say anything... this is a big group normally...  Then you are left with us, who find the forums and start asking for changes or new features.  We're a tiny % of the Messenger Plus user-base.  And this 'feature' is not a show-stopper like the disappearing 'Rename Contact Feature' of MPLive, so the number of us asking for a change is small.  But this thread and a few others that talk about this 'feature' have been frequented by a number of people.  It's not just one person with a wacky idea.  And our idea does have the benefit of actually being half sensible (if not totally)

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

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Originally posted by topbanana
Simple, set the Save By Email option as default, and change the default filename registry entries to give us a format like above.  No GUI changes needed.

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That is extremely unfriendly to the user. Not only are you then forcing a radical change upon the user without its consent, it would also create a big mess in the existing log directories and people will start to complain for sure!

If such a change is being introduced it must be accompanied with a well thought GUI change and even a possible way to convert the existing directories to the new system if the user wishes so.

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I see your point with the big change and likelihood of complaints.  So perhaps a compromise is in order:
The default behavior is for MP to 'Save By Date' and the change to 'Save By Email' would be a huge step change that would gather some complaints, cos it's very different.  So we could leave the default as-is.  But, we could change the default filename for the 'Save By Email' from "December 2007" to the suggested "2007-12 (December)"... This is not a radical step-change.  This change can be listed as an 'Improvement' in the changelog when released and people looking in their chosen 'Save By Email' log folders would find the new logs now being written with better filenames, which they will mostly work out straightaway is indeed an improvement.
Users love improvements to software!  (noticed anyone hanging around your download servers today for any reason??? ) Improvements often mean things get changed...  And yes, small changes are probably better swallowed by us users.

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Originally posted by topbanana
see your point with the big change and likelihood of complaints.  So perhaps a compromise is in order:
The default behavior is for MP to 'Save By Date' and the change to 'Save By Email' would be a huge step change that would gather some complaints, cos it's very different.  So we could leave the default as-is.  But, we could change the default filename for the 'Save By Email' from "December 2007" to the suggested "2007-12 (December)"...

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Actually my point was that changing "December 2007" to "2007-12 (December)" IS radical and should not happen just like that. Not without a decent GUI walking the user to the change and giving him/her the option to attempt (note: attempt, this is very difficult to make this fail proof) to do this automatically...

Changing the user's option from "save by date "to "save by email" didn't even came to mind. That too is severe and shouldn't happen.

In short: just changing the default regisrty option is a no-no, IMHO.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Actually my point was that changing "December 2007" to "2007-12 (December)" is radical and should not happen just like that.

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The radical change would be that the log files would now be named in such a way that they now all sit there in the correct order, making it easier to find things.  Which would be a wonderful improvement.
Changes that make life more difficult are not liked.  Changes that make life easier are liked.

No, the radical change would be that the average user, suddenly, without any warning, see his directory full of subdirectories with different formats (old and new), aka a big mess.

You said it would be simple to change it; just change the default registry option. Hence I replied that this can not be done just-like-that and should be done with a decent designed GUI accompanying the new method and maybe even with a wizard-like auto-converter to 'attempt' to change the old directories to the new ones.

If not, many people will complain and maybe even report it as a bug.

Again, it is NOT as easy as simply changing the default registry setting, like you might think.

Such a change is severe and that is not how a user-friendly program should behave, at all. Especially not a program which is mostly used by people who are not computer-savy users like us.

In short: if you want it, change it (you most likely already did). For this to be added as a standard in Plus!, additional changes need to be done (eg: redesign logging option panel) and that means it wont be done for the next version, nor will it be done without any thought I can imagine.

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EDIT: You don't seem to get my point though....

I'm not saying that using the ISO standard is bad, I'm saying that you are wrong into thinking that the current system is not user friendly and wrong into thinking it is a very easy to implement and only requires a default reg setting to be changed.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
No, the radical change would be that the user would suddenly, without any warning, see his directory full of subdirectories with different formats (old and new), aka a big mess.

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But it's a big mess now.  The user would see the new log files lining up at the top in an orderly fashion... With a big mess underneath them...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
You said it would be simple to change it, just change the default registry option. Hence I replied that this can not be done just-like-that and should be done with a decent designed GUI accompanying it and even with a wizard-like autoconverter to 'attempt' change the old directories to the new one.

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If no GUI/Wizard is going to be included, the registry change would only be needed.  But yes, a nice GUI/Wizard would be lovely!  Nice of you to offer!  I look forward to seeing it

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
If not, many people will complain and maybe even report it as a bug.

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I bet a lot less than have entered into this plea for change.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Again, it is NOT as easy as simply changing the default registry setting like you might think. That is not how a user-friendly program should behave, at all. Especially not a program which is mostly used by people who are not computer-savy users.

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The entries have to be written to the registry during installation...  You can then set the values to whatever you want.
The only change people will see here is a positive one, if they are savy or not they would appreciate this improvement.
People are used to seeing stuff in chronological order, 99.99% of people email inboxes are sorted in perfect chronological order... This is THE norm.  Everyone is totally accustomed to this...
Sorting stuff alphabetically by the first letter of the name of the month is just plain weird.