Shoutbox

ok, here’s the thing that has been bugging me for quite a while. I apologize in advance for making this thread if it is in any way irrelevant or somehow stupid. (or if there was already a thread like this... thought i didn't see one)

we all know (or should know) that block checkers do not work… for the reasons stated here

but would I be correct in saying that it is possible to detect if a person blocked you if you have an open conversation window notifier?
I am asking this since open conversation window notifiers (such as wouter’s openconvo) or messengerdiscovery can detect blocking,  when the person who blocked you opens a conversation window with you.
I tested this thoroughly and although I admit that it is a rather limited way of detecting blocking… it still works. -> the “only” limitation is obvious -> the conversation window needs to be open in order to detect blocking.

I mainly tested wouter’s openconvo for this, but I think messengerdiscovery uses the same method of detection.
(also.. for some reason this method of detection did not work well for me with msn 7.0.0777, but did for msn 6.2 up to (.632) does now again with the newest version of msn i'm not sure why that is though)

so where does all this fit in with block checking? can we or I, tell a person who asks that “block checking” is possible? or no?


also, another question. I not even once got a false “open conversation” notification (if the person who opened my conversation window, simply signed in offline or changed their status to offline, and didn’t block me). so WHY is it possible at all to detect if a person opened your convo window, if they blocked you? I’m just wondering how this works.

Edit: i added the links to wouter's openconvo notifier.. and messengerdiscovery:

openconvo
messengerdiscovery

Do you know if the contact has StuffPlug and the "talk offline" option on?

This is what I think about it:
Afaik, when you block someone and open a window, there's a boolean that tells if you're blocking the person or not (thus, it allows or not you to talk to them). StuffPlug puts the value so that it's not true for YOUR client that you're blocking them. This will start a session with the person you opened the conversation (alerting their client, even if you appear offline to them).

I'm not sure if it's like that when you're blocking someone without StuffPlug. If it works also for those who don't have the plugin, it might be the same. But I dunno. This is all I think it does, but I'd like to see what Cookie has to say about it.

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Originally posted by Killov
Do you know if the contact has StuffPlug and the "talk offline" option on?

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i thought this too , but from what i tested it doesn't matter if they have stuffplug and the option enabled or not, it seems to make no difference eitherway when it comes to the notifications.

quote:

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Originally posted by Killov
but I'd like to see what Cookie has to say about it.

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me too. cookie where are you when i need you?


Edit: oh yeah just to add something.. when the stuffplug "talk to blocked contacts" option is enabled (for the person who blocked someone), the appropriate notifications show for each time the person opens or closes the conversation window

when that option is not enabled, two notifications show up simultaneously (one for opening and one for closing, both at the same time) and only upon opening of the conversation window

Yeah i have noticed something somewhat similar to this. A family friend who uses messenger (who I am 100% sure does not have stuffplug, let alone Plus!) is on my MSN. On a few occations, the window has popped up signifying that they have opened a conversation with me when they are offline.

I am assuming that I am not blocked because i sometimes see this contact online, instead, I think this is occuring while the contact is Appear offline. I dont know if or how this is related to blocking a person but it can fit in above.

It could also happen if the client requests a display picture, as this opens a conversation.

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Originally posted by haydn
I am assuming that I am not blocked because i sometimes see this contact online, instead, I think this is occuring while the contact is Appear offline. I dont know if or how this is related to blocking a person but it can fit in above.

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windows can't be opened on appear offline mode, so he has either blocked you, either you're having network problems and you didn't see his status change.

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Originally posted by Joa
so where does all this fit in with block checking? can we or I, tell a person who asks that “block checking” is possible? or no?

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don't, you can't rely on that, because seriously, who opens a conversation with someone you have blocked? ¬¬

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Originally posted by Joa
but from what i tested it doesn't matter if they have stuffplug and the option enabled or not

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the only difference is that stuffplug stops msn messenger from closing the windows straight after opening it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Killov
Afaik, when you block someone and open a window, there's a boolean that tells if you're blocking the person or not (thus, it allows or not you to talk to them). StuffPlug puts the value so that it's not true for YOUR client that you're blocking them. This will start a session with the person you opened the conversation (alerting their client, even if you appear offline to them).

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i think it stops the controls from being disabled and the window from being closed stuffplug or not, the conversation is still opened

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Originally posted by raceprouk
It could also happen if the client requests a display picture, as this opens a conversation.

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that is why the open convo notifier has been classed as "unreliable" i think =/

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition

quote:

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Originally posted by Joa

    so where does all this fit in with block checking? can we or I, tell a person who asks that “block checking” is possible? or no?

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don't, you can't rely on that, because seriously, who opens a conversation with someone you have blocked? ¬¬

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If you have blocked somebody and you see the toast for them signing in you may click it, hence, opening the conversation

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Originally posted by M_e

quote:

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Originally posted by haydn

I am assuming that I am not blocked because i sometimes see this contact online, instead, I think this is occuring while the contact is Appear offline. I dont know if or how this is related to blocking a person but it can fit in above.

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windows can't be opened on appear offline mode, so he has either blocked you, either you're having network problems and you didn't see his status change.

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errrrmmmm yes you can, I just tested it. I switched my status to appear offline and if you right click and go to Send an Instant Message to this person it will work

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition
don't, you can't rely on that, because seriously, who opens a conversation with someone you have blocked?

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True. However as raceprouk said, when a client asks the other one for a display picture it gives the same response as an "open window". Even if the contact is blocked.

quote:

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition
that is why the open convo notifier has been classed as "unreliable" i think =/

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In this case it doesn't matter, if the contact looks like they are offline and opens a window (even if it is an unreliable result from something else) it means that they are really online. So in this case, that factor works to an advantage.

quote:

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Originally posted by haydn
If you have blocked somebody and you see the toast for them signing in you may click it, hence, opening the conversation

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you don't see toasts of blocked people...

quote:

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Originally posted by haydn
errrrmmmm yes you can, I just tested it. I switched my status to appear offline and if you right click and go to Send an Instant Message to this person it will work

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the protocol session isn't opened though...

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Originally posted by Anubis
In this case it doesn't matter, if the contact looks like they are offline and opens a window (even if it is an unreliable result from something else) it means that they are really online. So in this case, that factor works to an advantage.

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true... to obtain good results, change your display picture regulary though

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition

true... to obtain good results, change your display picture regulary though

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Actually, that gave me an idea, if the plugin instantly changed your display picture to a random image for 5 seconds, it would show the contact up.