Hello,

if you got 5 minutes to spare and are interested about what's going on in the Messenger world, please go read the article I just posted at http://www.msgplus.net/index.php?view=news. It's about a recent news posted by mess.be about the fact that Microsoft is going to restrict its servers to authorized third party softwares only.

Thank you for posting your comments
Patchou

Whoa, you're actually on Microsoft's side......
It has become alien to read someone write in MS's favor.....
You keep amazing me again and again, Patchster......


By the way everyone, here is that article: http://www.instantmessagingplanet.com/public/arti...hp/11210_3073501_1

hey, i totaly agree with ya Patchou with what ya said (very long too ). like honsitly, where would we be with out microsoft makeing all these programs and so on?, i recan we would be alot ferther back then we r now, programing wise.  yer they've stuffed up sum stuff, but who doesnt?

I completely agree with u, as it would be nice to blame M$ as ever

When i first heard about this new, thanks to Mess.be, i thought it was another MS strategy to make money and all that, i really didn't care, but know that i have analysed it better, after reading your arguments i've noticed that theiy're not making money, they are jsut trying to stop "loosing it" in some way.

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you so that you give your pages faster [...] you're telling everybody in the subway that from now on, you are buying the newspaper for you and for you only

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"if you want us to stop reading your newspaper, contact your lawyers. In our opinion, you can't force us to buy our own newspaper as you let us read it for free in the past 3 years".

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how could some people dare beginning to say that this is a greedy act from Microsoft?

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well, I never really thought about it like that, but I have to admit: you're actually right patchou!!

It's true that microsoft sometimes leaves bugs and security holes in their software that should have been fixed before their software is released, but it's also true that their software has major upsides: without microsoft MSN messenger wouldnt exist and Messenger Plus! wouldnt even exist!

and like patchou says, it's not fair to blame Microsoft when they do something like this, it is their every right and it's quite understandable why they would do something like that (thx to patchou's little storry )

BUT, if they will ask money for it ==> IT WILL STILL SUCK

conclusion: I would understand it if they did it, but I hope they wont ....

I'm not going to agree with who is right and wrong, because depending on which way you look at it no one is either.

Bare in mind some people have spent years and a lot of money having third party applications and it is understandable that they will be upset.

But I totally understand Patchous point as well.

aslong as it's free, do whatever the hell they want.  MSN 4.6 and below sucks anyways.  i don't think anyone uses it.  im converting my contact list to start using MSN messenger 6 anyways.  so doesn't effect my at all.

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Originally posted by lylesback
aslong as it's free, do whatever the hell they want.  MSN 4.6 and below sucks anyways.  i don't think anyone uses it.  im converting my contact list to start using MSN messenger 6 anyways.  so doesn't effect my at all.

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IMHO, any for profit enterprise who use MSN Messenger in their business should pay something...

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Originally posted by Johnny_Mac

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Originally posted by lylesback
aslong as it's free, do whatever the hell they want.  MSN 4.6 and below sucks anyways.  i don't think anyone uses it.  im converting my contact list to start using MSN messenger 6 anyways.  so doesn't effect my at all.

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I dont understand this, is this an opinion about the users using it free? Kinda NIMBY approcach.

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why oh why oh why does it have to be about the money nower-days cant we just have fun talking to friends......if you had all lisened to me when i was 5 this would of never got so commershal....................note the spelling, remember i was 5. lol

Patchou is right, but I think that M$ also plans on giving new MSN messenger versions away only if you buy one of their products (like with IE) or if you pay some $$$.. they'll do that as soon as ICQ and AIM and so on are dead. But then we get Trillian and GAIM, and they also use the MSN network, but also ICQ and AIM and YIM... which is hard for M$ to fight.. But as Patchou said, they have all rights to do this, and GAIM and Trillian are not right..

It's hard to say, but MS owns the protocol and it can change it or make a new one. I don't like the idea of MS, but I have to agree with Patchou. I don't like the idea, because I won't be able to connect from linux and there won't be 3rd-party clients but (I think) we can't do anything against that.

Totally agree with Patchou there. If M$ own and pay for the servers why shud other companies complain when the protocol is being changed, they really don't have a say in the matter.

Agreeing with Patchou to the maximum extent possible.

By the way, nobody forced anyone to BUY Microsoft products, all is sole decision. Noone sad to anybody not to make a better OS than Windows.

Noone thinks bread and butter sould be given away for free in supermarkets just because they are so essential things for a human to live. Why should Microsoft sell things like Windows for free then? Or would you work for MS for free?

Well statistics show that AIM and ICQ are the most popular Instant Messagers on the net right now. Although with the release of MSN Messenger 5.0 some months ago it started rising up and with the release of 6.0  and 6.1 MSN Messenger was becoming more and more popular... Now I bet that this step by microsoft, msn's popularity is gonna drop becuase you would have to pay to get you msn messenger while other IMs are for free. Hasn't anybody thought about that ??? So I'm afraid I don't agree with Patchou !!!

Take this for instance: If people are not going to read the newspaper from behind my shoulder, they are going to read over someone else's. Therefore MSN Messenger users will drop and instead of developing MSN Messenger will fade slowly.

What's the solution? I don't know !

Excelent article, Patchou!

I totally agree with you... Microsoft knows what to do, and just think... If not they, you probably wont even have a PC and Internet will probably still be used for sicret military reasons

Well, oke, i went a little bit too far, but... Well, ya'll underrstand what i'm sayin'...

God Patchou your good at changing peoples opinions on things

I completly understand it and know what you mean i never thought about it like that

whoa!!! I thought microsoft was being cruel at first but after i read that article my mind tottally changed!Trillian is being mean! You have to pay 25$ to get a decent version and they just take all micro$ofts bandwidth for free will microsoft pays tons and still maintaines free software :\

i agree with you patchou, the third parties shouldnt complain, they have been aloud to freeload from ms servers for so long and nothing lasts forever... in the end, everyones gotta pay the bills.. even microsoft

thank you all of you for understanding my point, at least, I didn'T wrote this article for nothing

Good point made Patchou! I posted the article on mess.be The discussion continues on msnfanatic forums though

wat i read i agreed with, but i have extremely short attention span and got distracted so i didnt read all of it

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Originally posted by lylesback

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Originally posted by Johnny_Mac

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Originally posted by lylesback
aslong as it's free, do whatever the hell they want.  MSN 4.6 and below sucks anyways.  i don't think anyone uses it.  im converting my contact list to start using MSN messenger 6 anyways.  so doesn't effect my at all.

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I dont understand this, is this an opinion about the users using it free? Kinda NIMBY approcach.

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so what if microsoft is banning 4.6 and lower MSN's, nothing you can do about it.  whats gonna be done is gonna be done.  It's not your software to say "no don't ban this" it's microsofts, so let them do what there gonna do.  And also, it covers up alot of there mistakes... like people hacking peoples passwords, stealing IP's and alot of other programs are now useless.

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Originally posted by Johnny_Mac
What the hell does this have to do with it?

This is about Microsoft charging to access it's server on programs such as Trillian and dMSN.

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They have an authentication scheme or something similar..Using an md5 hash.

well said patchou

the bottom line is that servers have value... if 3rd party clients want servers they can get their own.  more to the point, who on earth would want a 3rd party client when they don't support plus?

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Originally posted by sock
BTW, exactly what stops any third-party IM client for saying "hi, I'm MSN Messenger 6.0" when signing into the .NET Messenger Service?

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Originally posted by sock
BTW, exactly what stops any third-party IM client for saying "hi, I'm MSN Messenger 6.0" when signing into the .NET Messenger Service?

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Originally posted by Chris Boulton
They have an authentication scheme or something similar..Using an md5 hash.

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its all very well blocking 3rd party clients but what about if you use linux or an older mac then you might not be able to get on msn.

mind you spose $10 or so for a 3rd party client isnt to bad.

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Originally posted by dragon2611
its all very well blocking 3rd party clients but what about if you use linux or an older mac then you might not be able to get on msn.

mind you spose $10 or so for a 3rd party client isnt to bad.

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Exactly PlusFan..

and, about the article, i agree with you Patchou, and i always was on ms's side on this argument, i wouldnt like it if i made something and gave it away for free, then someone started selling it, and making money from it..

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Originally posted by Choli

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Originally posted by sock
BTW, exactly what stops any third-party IM client for saying "hi, I'm MSN Messenger 6.0" when signing into the .NET Messenger Service?

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Originally posted by Chris Boulton
They have an authentication scheme or something similar..Using an md5 hash.

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What Chris said is what happens now. The authentication protocol uses md5 to check the password. What Microsoft wants to do (if I understood well) is change the protocol and use a new one. That new protocol wouldn't be public so 3rd party clients wouldn't be able to sign in. That way the can't say "hi, I'm MSN Messenger 6.0" (because they don't know how to say it )

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Originally posted by PlusFan
so.. do you think m$ wants you to use linux? or  a mac? I don't think so...

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Originally posted by Choli
That way they can't say "hi, I'm MSN Messenger 6.0" (because they don't know how to say it )

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Assembly Code

If they lose money because it's free for us and expensive, why did M$ create it in the first way ? I buy a newspaper to read it, what was M$ obtaining when creating it ? They did it to kill the others, then, when no one uses the others, I'll charge them (soon to come in you Windows desktop). That's no "poor me, I'm losing money". If you're losing money, close it. No one pushes you to buy Windows (oh, well, only the fact that xx% of programs need Windows to run, and the "couple" of bucks M$ is putting inside some people's wallets so they decide not to use Linux or whatever), but no one pushes you to buy Trillian Pro either. Use Trillian Lite. And if Trillian Lite is a shit, use another!

And there's no official MSN for Linux, so you're forced to use aMSN, LICQ or whatever 3rd party to connect, and they're free, and they're giving a service M$ doesn't want to give. They're the ones giving newspapers to people in villages where The Disablez Times doesn't want to sell. They are free, they're wasting their time making a program, and they produce the same load Messenger would, so what's the difference between using MSN or aMSN? I am using the same server, I'm paying nobody, and the only difference is in the window that I have in my desktop.  But I'm sure you all can see why M$ does want to reduce or eliminate use of other clients.

And when Messenger 6 came, and Patchou said "I won't be able to adapt Plus!" I didn't hear a single word of praise to MS... and it was still MS's MSN, and they still could do whatever they wanted with it.
Plus! is an addon to MSN, Plus! doesn't work w/o MSN, so in fact you're also using something from them. And now you're winning some money with it...  (Trillian), you can say, well, you can either not install the sponsor so I don't earn a buck (Trillian Lite),  or you can use another addon...  (And I know Plus! builds on top and Trillian replaces it, but in fact they're building on the same thing, but at different levels, both of which are higher than the server one)

To resume, it's theirs, they can do whatever they want, but I won't praise a sheep skin because I now there's still a wolf beneath it.

Chris an sock: Yep, you can monitor the protocol but it's very dificul to know a protocol by looking it through a sniffer (or snifer? ). Also you can copy the asm code but that will cause legal troubles as wtbw said.

Anyway, I know that whatever M$ does, it will be copied by people in more or less time and more or less legally. I think that on Oct 15th (or the day M$ changes its protocol) only M$ clientes would be able to sing in on Messenger service and that's a pain in the ass (mmm... not sure if this last expresion means what I want to say)

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Originally posted by jpg050
If they lose money because it's free for us and expensive, why did M$ create it in the first way ? I buy a newspaper to read it, what was M$ obtaining when creating it ? They did it to kill the others, then, when no one uses the others, I'll charge them (soon to come in you Windows desktop). That's no "poor me, I'm losing money". If you're losing money, close it.

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jpg050: even if it's true that I was quite unhappy with Messenger 6, I never said anything about Microsoft doing things they don't have the right to do etc... if they wanted to shut down Messenger Plus!, I would be sad but that would be their entire right. And you seem to forget something important, you and the others with the same arguments.... it's very different if you're not using MSN Messenger to connect to the service. Yes it generates the same traffic but there's no benefit for them. That's what I wrote in my article. If you connect in linux with a third party client, you're just wasting their bandwidth. They want you to use Messenger at least so that you are using their OS: Windows. The problem is not the bandwidth used, it's the benefit from it.... I hope you'll think about that because that's fundamental to the problem. If they don't want to make a client for Linux, too bad for Linux. Buy yourself a server, create your client and distribute it for free in linux if you're not happy with what Microsoft is doing. Instead of bashing Microsoft once again, I'd really appreciate if you could think about it before you reply to this post, if you do, you'll understand quickly why Microsoft is doing what is right to do.

Seems fair but i still wopuld like to use MSN for my Perl bot. I am sur ei will be able to when it gets updadted to Protocall 9 but i can understand them not wanting to let people use if for free, but if your honest they can afford it.

Again my personal opinion.

I agree they have the right to do that or to make Redmond explode in a nice termonuclear blast, but to have the right to do a thing doesn't mean that doing that thing is right...



Really don't think people not wanting to make a server is the problem, eMule and Cia have a lot of free servers and no one charges for them,  and so does Jabber and so on, and I really doubt if I made a MSN server, M$ allowed me to connect mine with theirs, and in that case I would prefer to make a better protocol instead of MS's.
(What about IRC? Will EFNet people worry if I use XChat, or mIRC? )

The only purpose of these free programs is to allow people to connect  with that people, so they support ICQ people, MSN people, Yahoo people and mymother'smessenger people. I haven't heard ICQ complaining, and its client is far more recharged than MSN's. 

If M$ wants profit, make better products, lower the prices, and MS, don't blame 2xx persons are not watching my "MSN Extra Storage" crap, just see what are YOU doing wrong. Perhaps if you made a damned official client for Linux, people wouldn't have to use a non-ad-full client. But ooh, people going to use Linux, people not using my Windows... my precious Windows... but, why should they go together ? Windows is an OS and Messenger is a IM program. Forcing the two things together seems something that is not very loable.

But you have the right, you have it, and you'll do it. Then you'll charge for Messenger, and when people moves onto a better thing, you'll say "It's ... er... fault of Linux, because they copied... er... the "close button" icon of the windows..." You're doing things wrong, whether you wanna accept it or not. Y se te está acabando el chollo. 

By the way, I'm watching MS's home page with Mozilla, will they tell me to build my own server if I don't wanna see their page with IE ? Oh, that happened years ago, was the famous "MicroSoft Network vs Internet"

Everything that has a beginning, has an end... and one way or another, this world is going to end.

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By the way, I'm watching MS's home page with Mozilla, will they tell me to build my own server if I don't wanna see their page with IE ?

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It was just an irony, so it's normal that it is nonsense. And about taking over the world, don't give them ideas...

no, no.. they want to dominate everything with a 'chip' in it.. who cares about 'taking over the world' the'll have much power 'do this, or i'll press this button and all electronic devices will die!' -> that's a creepy idea

OK, I'm confused......

I understand completely the argument being posed by M$ in regards to those making 3rd party client software utilizing the MSN Network (i.e. Trillian).  What I don't understand is how does this impact developers like Patchou who are making add-ins.  An add-in such as Messenger Plus! should be taking up no MSN Network bandwidth because it hooks into the existing MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger client.

Am I just misreading and this doesn't affect the development of Messenger Add-ins?  If it does, I don't understand why.

it doesn't affect add-ons developpement

So as long as we use the "official" msn/windows messenger client, we will still be able to enjoy the continued development of Messenger Plus?

That is great!

That means this only affects developers that create clients (i.e. Trillian)?  If that is the case, this doesn't impact me at all because I only use the clients provided by the owner of the network (Yahoo, M$, and AOL)

What could affect Plus! is the existence or not of an API doc for future versions of Messenger.

well, if they did create a complete API that would allow to do what Plus! is already doing it would surely create some competition, however, you'd better not count on it . Anyway, competition is good, the proof is: I'm encouraging the development of Messenger Freedom, I hope you're not misunderstanding my intentions

Note to self: kill Messenger Freedom before it becomes bigger than Plus!

Good article, makes a good read compared ot the usual anti-ms stuff.
I wouldn't pay for messenger, but fair enough they have every right to charge for it if they want.

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Originally posted by Patchou
Note to self: kill Messenger Freedom before it becomes bigger than Plus!

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I'm almost 100% agree with Patchou's opinion, but there are also some aspects that havent been mentioned:
Microsoft actually do make money with its IM service like publicity (expedia.com bla bla bla), mobile services, MSN Explorer, and of course involve more and more users to use M$ products every day.

But in general nice point Patch

the only thing i really regret that there wont be a status checker anymore



[add] and of course there will be some way to fool NET Service that will use msn/win messenger by using the clients md5 codes [/add]

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Originally posted by S7a5
Microsoft actually do make money with its IM service like publicity (expedia.com bla bla bla), mobile services, MSN Explorer, and of course involve more and more users to use M$ products every day.

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Originally posted by BooGhost

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Originally posted by S7a5
Microsoft actually do make money with its IM service like publicity (expedia.com bla bla bla), mobile services, MSN Explorer, and of course involve more and more users to use M$ products every day.

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yeah but they stop making money if ppl use others software.... then with what money would they pay all the Messenger expenses

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Now i'm not going to go agains microsoft, but this service needs to stay free. First off, microsoft is pulling money out of thier asses, they don't need to make any more. I'm quite sure they can spare a few million dollars out of the billions they make per year, for a free service.

I own lots of mirosoft items, lots of them. I think that buying those items from them, you are already paying for you service. Look at how much operating systems cost? A few hundred dollars for the latest Microsoft operating system. They are making about 75% profit from that one piece of software. Now that price that we are paying for this microooft operating system, should pay for most of our micrsoft services. We purchace thier sofware, they could at least give us a little back, such as a free service.

Now I know the messenger service is a big part of microosft, it has it's whole own datacenter building, useing thousands and thousands of GB to store everyones contacts. And i know they go through a few tarabytes a year in bandwidth from MSN messenger alone, and costs them millions. But look at thier products. Price otu a few of microsofts most common products. For Office XP and Windows XP you are paying about $500. That should, as i have said, pay for your subscription.

I had recently ppurchased an XBOX system, cost me $300 for the system alone. No joke, that included one game. I bought an extra controller, and another game, bringing my totaly to about $400. Now i was thinking, paying so much money for this simple gaming system, you could ghook it up to the interet and play people online for free. But alas, Microsoft was asking $30 for the  live kit, and the another $6/month for the subscription. I had just paid a lot of money for one of their products, and their not even goign to show the curtosey and give me one service free?

If you agree with me totally, give me a pm!

No offence Billy boy, but your a billionare, you can spare 50 million a year for a free service can't you? Your making billions a year, is that not enough for you?

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This is out of nowhere, but what also pisses me off, is how they are making so much money, and people pirate the software and it gooes around to a few thouisand people, yet they still persue and press charges, making even more money. They could sell otu anything, i don't know why they waste thier time on something as stupid as that.

What else, thier a professional busin ess making billions as i've said, and they have ads all over thier site. For themselves i'm nto concerned about, but for other people? Chearged e-mail address i comepltely understang, but it does make me think that they should give them a more professional sounding domain, insteafd of @hotmail.com or @msn.com.

mikelc2, I agree with the fact that the Messenger service should stayd free for users as I also agree that we're paying for it buy buying Windows, Office, etc... and in fact, that was also what I wanted to say in my article... if people distribute clones of MSN Messenger on Linux, or if they do it on Windows and they remove all the benefits Microsoft put in the software (customer surveys, publicities, etc...) then it's not worth it for them anymore.

As for making a lot of money, I agree that they do, jsut remember that it's part of the reasons why they can do so many research for so long... part of the money we're paying  them goes back to us as technologies. But in any case, it's not because they are making tons of money that they should allow third parties to use their resources for free... if that was true, you could go at Microsoft in Redmond, enter the building and use their computers for your personal buisness aying that they shouldn't care, they make enough money already. It's not a public company, it's a private one, and they are already sharing enough things they could ask money for, you just don't realize it.

Yes, i do understand that fact. Microsoft has many free services for us, such as Hotmail, ect. They do put some of thier revenew back into thier technology, but not much considering what they are making.

And I aslo agree with you there. Programs like Trillian and GAIM, should NOT be using microsofts bandwidth. It is pretty much like stealing. I agree that Microsoft can ske for server maintainment fees from non-microsoft operatin systems. But the chances are, someone that owns a computer, has purchased somethign from microsoft. 

But then again when you think about Bandwidth usage, microsoft could easily come up with a way to not go thorough thier server as much. Instead of indirect, a direct connection to the target computer. Spend a little more money in research, so it could save them some money, and in the end, make everyone happy.

I agree with you strongly in one way, but then again do disagree.

Patchou, as usual, u r absolutely rite!...I never thought that I'd b backing up something that M$ has done or is doing! It's a strange, strange world we live in...

Personally, I think Patchou is absolutely right, I mean who wants to pay for someone else to use thier bandwidth and space, thats millions of dollars that MS is dishing out. Sure MS has lots of money, but it adds up fast. Besides, MS uses that money to make software and pay its employees.

Microsoft has more money than you guys can imagine. Well most of you anyways. They most definatly can afford it. It's like a ilttle nic in thier budget.

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Originally posted by mikelc2
Microsoft has more money than you guys can imagine. Well most of you anyways. They most definatly can afford it. It's like a ilttle nic in thier budget.

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Originally posted by mikelc2
Microsoft has more money than you guys can imagine. Well most of you anyways. They most definatly can afford it. It's like a ilttle nic in thier budget.

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I suppose. But a lot of factors come in on that accusation. My main assumption is that we are paying for our operating systesm (quite exspensive) should'ne we recieve this service back for the considerable amount we are spending.

The third party companies using microsoft bandwidth should get shut down, because yes, that is stealing. But 90% of all computers have windows on them, i don't see why they want to start charging if we are already paying for thier operating system. It makes them sound money hungry.

The whole thing about Child Porn, microsoft can stop that, and they CAN ban users who are doing that, but they don't. The whole child porn thing does need to stop. But we can't stop a mindless siccos. There is nothing we can do, and breaking into thier computer to find this out would be a privacy violation or "invasion of privacy".

Anyways, moy point is, almost everyone who owns a computer, buys one of micrsofts products. It's like buyign something from an eye doctors office. You pay a lot of mone yfor your galses, but if they break, you can bring them in any time and have them fixed. Same goes for this, in a way, just a diferent perspective. We buy thier products, and they should give us this popular service. Hotmail is overused though i think. There are millions of users who have 1-5 hotmail accounts. If they were to shut hotmail down, i would be at no loss, because i have no care for it. I don't like using hotmail because of the junkmail factor.

Yes i drift off quite a bit, but do you see my pouint?

I completely agree with what u say about everyone buying M$ stuff. They are a big company, yes. they get lots of moneey, yes... the fact is, u dont get the right to steal it from them they earns it, its their money

I am starting to think people are getting confused about M$'s statement.  They aren't going to associate a charge with using MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger.  They are going to assess a charge to those who create 3rd Party clients (i.e. Trillian).

In other words, if you are using the MICROSOFT Instant Messaging products, you'll still get it for free.  Yes, I understand that they apparently vaguely worded something in their lasted EULA about the right to charge, but I really think they are referring to extra services.  The basic Instant Messaging stuff will probably always be free.

Go on.... nothing more too say

this is sorta off topic, but M$ are closing down there chat rooms, in case u hadnt heard

Patchou is right

who uses the chatrooms anyway ?

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Originally posted by volkl
this is sorta off topic, but M$ are closing down there chat rooms, in case u hadnt heard

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Originally posted by mikelc2
But the chances are, someone that owns a computer, has purchased somethign from microsoft. 

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ive probably just totally missed the point, and its probably been said before me, so sorry if it has im too tired to read through it all.
But without microsoft, there would be no Windows... or msn messenger... and ok, so maybe m$ can stuff up, and make life hard, but it would be worse w/o them! Imagine if only DOS was used lol! so, everyone should just give 'em a break!
(yay patchou)

:[ kangie :[

LOL! *kangie slaps herself*
Ok, i promise in future i will check what the newest topic is
RIGHT
as for MSN chatrooms, i dont think its such a good idea that they are closed, but that doesnt make it all bad.
The problem is that the children (no offence!) will see all the media hype about paedophiles and suchlike, and will be taught that chatrooms are bad. and so they will NOT tell their parents, and things could get worse.... banning them only makes it worse. Children should be encouraged to talk about who theyve met to their parents, not told that the people COULD wanna... hurt them. *sighs* i think the internet has way too bad a reputation, believe me i know. i went through HELL when someone i know told a teacher at skl that i was meeting up with some guy id met over the net (this was a year ago) and the school FLIPPED and rung my parents(who already knew that i wasnt meeting him... cos he lived like, 10,000miles away). now i know they thought they were protecting me, but it was all perfectly innocent, and people shouldnt fear the unknown. alot of technophobic parents hate the internet because they dont always understand it....
anyhow, i shall be quiet now im sure im making no sense....

kangie

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Originally posted by kangie
ive probably just totally missed the point, and its probably been said before me, so sorry if it has im too tired to read through it all.
But without microsoft, there would be no Windows... or msn messenger... and ok, so maybe m$ can stuff up, and make life hard, but it would be worse w/o them! Imagine if only DOS was used lol! so, everyone should just give 'em a break!
(yay patchou)

:[ kangie :[

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umm my uncle was telling me about some os that was comming out around the same time as windows but then windows started somethign and it got way popular so that os totlay went down the drain. but there woudl be somethign ehre besides dos if windows wernt here

DR-DOS perhaps... later was the fall of OS/2 Warp...

They sould only charge a fee to the people who make others pay for their third-party programs, it's unfair to those who spend all this money when they don't chanrge others.

they're not charging just to get profit, they're charging so that they're only giving bandwidth away when it's worth it - i.e. when it's paid for or being used on the official client, with adverts and .net integration, tabs etc.

You buy me a server, i'd very much appreciate it

quote:

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Originally posted by Underlord
well m$ bought dos over from ibm...
and sold it and made a shit load...
i think without microsoft other companies would have made other products...
instead of m$ buying up the competition...
and there would be alot more competition that way

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ardham

quote:

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Originally posted by Underlord
well m$ bought dos over from ibm...
and sold it and made a shit load...
i think without microsoft other companies would have made other products...
instead of m$ buying up the competition...
and there would be alot more competition that way

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-And without microsoft there would be less competition, not more. 

¿Does the word 'antitrust' or 'monopoly' mean something (apart from the dice game)?

-In fact, it encourages other companies to work hard to compete with them.

Netscape, by example... About the MAC thing... where did windows come from, you say ?

Anyway, MS programmers are not to blame, they're nice workers... the $$$ guys are the ones I can't swallow.

I agree totally, microsoft created this program and distrubuted it for free, they're only trying to keep their piece of the pie and 'own' what they've generously created

After reading your article I freaked! I love using msn messenger, but I can't afford to pay. so I e-mailed  "MSN Messenger Support" @ Microsoft and they had this to say...

[Start]
Hello,

Thank you for writing to MSN Messenger Service.

This is Christian and I am writing in response to your inquiry regarding MSN
Messenger.

There are no present plans for MSN Messenger to be subscription-based. I believe
that you are referring to MSN Chat's planned shutdown of its services this
October. No, MSN Messenger is a different service from MSN Chat and will not be
affected at all. You can still use MSN Messenger's free service to "chat" online
with your contacts even after this date.

For more information on this news, please visit MSNBC News or go to:
     http://www.msnbc.com/news/970970.asp

Sincerely,         
         
Christian       
MSN Messenger Support
[end]

So you see MSN Messenger is and will still be Free! Yay!

From what I read it seemed like you were saying they were going to charge money as seen here --->

"A newspaper costs 1 dollar, do you know how much it costs to buy, maintain and keep running the several monstrous servers of the MSN Messenger network? can you beging to imagine how many terabytes of bandwidth is necessary every week to let hundreds of millions of users connect to the service? how could some people dare beginning to say that this is a greedy act from Microsoft? being the manager of the Messenger team I would be completely amazed to read what I read on the article posted on mess.be. Aren't these people ashamed of what they are trying to do? they well know that it's very easy to blame Microsoft, saying things like "we will probably have to pass on the fees to our users", of course, I can already picture the news on their web site "our formerly free software now costs $10, it's not our fault, we are not earning anything from this, all the money goes directly into the pockets of uncle Bill. Click here to send a complaint to the MSN team and help us restore a free Messenger network!"."

quote:

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Originally posted by Dreamcast God
After reading your article I freaked! I love using msn messenger, but I can't afford to pay.

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yes, it's only about third party software, Microsoft has no plan to ask money for the main MSN Messenger service, don't worry. What I meant in my article was that Messenger costs Microsoft a lot of money to operate and the only way for them to get something back if is you use their client (MSN Messenger) as it displays all kinds of advertisement amd services. If you use a third party client, they have no more benefit so they have to find a way not to lose money ot, at least, a way to control what's going on on their network (what they are going to charge companies like Trillian really doesn't reflect their cost).

I just wanted to say... I diden't read the entire artical.  But I do understand where Microsoft is coming from, if someone accessed your system 20 million times a day without your permission... woulden't you be a bit pissed off too?

I think Patchou should work together with microsoft, possably devlop a MSN Messenger version with all the features that MSN Plus has...?  Considering there is probaly over a 50 million users using MSN Plus today!

I think what Microsoft is doing is right... it's there right to decide who get's access anyways.

That's my opinion.