Since the forced MSN Messenger update (weekend 4/9-4/12/2004) there is a conflict with Windows messenger and Messenger Plus if MSN Messenger is also installed.

Windows Messenger is the preferred chat client for a variety of reasons.

Although Windows Messenger is the preferred client and is the only one activated in the background - when Windows Messenger is launched (and Messenger Plus is running in the background) Messenger Plus forces MSN Messenger to open which in turn inhibits Windows Messenger opening.

Without Messenger Plus installed or active - Windows Messenger launches appropriately.

In order to get Windows messenger to launch - msgr plus must be inactivated or a 5 step procedure must be followed which includes using task manager to end tasks and raise the application priority of windows messenger.

MSN Messenger could be fully removed from the system - yet it is needed for file transfers at times. (MSN Messenger to Windows Messenger file transfers fail a large percentage of the time.)

Removing Messenger Plus permanently is another possibility - yet the logging chat feature is deeply appreciated when working with others. 

Messenger Plus had been uninstalled and reinstalled.

This was not an issue prior to the latest forced MSN Messenger update.


Messenger Plus!: version 2.54.74 (December 19th 2003)
MSN Messenger: 6.1.0.211
Windows Messenger: 5.0.0482

Win XP Pro (sp 1 and fully patched)

Thank you for all the hard work you do. 

i just deny windows messenger access and i get on with everything fine, i use zone alarm pro firewall so its easy

Why would I deny Windows Messenger access when it is the preferred chat client?

Are you confusing the Messenger service with the IM Chat client native to Windows XP (Windows Messenger)?

First of all Windows Messenger is build in into Windows XP. This doesn't mean it is the preferred chat client. Most users prefer MSN Messenger.

Then, some points to know...

You don't have to use Windows Messenger if you like MSN Messenger more.

Windows Messenger needs to start up before MSN Messenger if you want to use both at the same time with Plus!
This is proberly your problem, by updating MSN Messenger it puts itself into the startup folder and now starts before Windows Messenger and thus will give errors because Windows Messenger is also started, even if you don't know it...

What Fukafly meant was: break the link between Windows XP and Windows Messenger, so that Windows Messenger wont startup any more without you knowing it (believe me it does that) and you wont have problems with it anymore.

To do that you need to hide Windows Messenger. Follow the instructions given here http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=21...d=201175#pid201175 to do just that.

After you've done that, you can choose yourself what program you use: Windows Messenger or MSN Messenger. Furthermore, all function in MSN Messenger will keep working (MSN Messenger uses some functions from Windows Messenger).

But do remember that whenever you use both programs at the same time, you need to startup Windows Messenger first.

Please re-read the original post.

The point made is in *MY* situation - Windows Messenger IS the preferred client. 

The ONLY time MSN Messenger is utilized is when there is a file transfer conflict between Windows Messenger and MSN Messenger customers.  At that point we launch MSN Messenger long enough to complete file transfer then we exit MSN Messenger.

I understand that your main reading audience prefers MSN Messenger - we do NOT prefer MSN Messenger.  It is too cumbersome and does not have some of the features we prefer that are inherent in Windows Messenger.

I have used both programs for years.  There have been zero issues until the latest forced MSN Messenger update. 

This message was intended to give MsgrPlus people a heads up that there is a problem with the current forced MSN Messenger update and the current configuration of Msgr Plus in that is destroys the launch of Windows Messenger.

It was posted with the hope that the MsgrPlus people will issue a patch to fix this new issue. 

I will repeat one more time - I WANT Windows Messenger to launch  - I do NOT want MSN Messenger to launch __until I call upon it__.

MsgrPlus is forcing MSN Messenger to launch INSTEAD of Windows Messenger.  This has been isolated to MsgrPlus and thus, is being posted on these forums.

Once again - do not assume that all of your posters want the configuration you posted.   If we did - we would have followed Jonathan Kay's advice as it is known to be a reliable source.

Thank you once again.

I'm sorry if I read your post wrong then...
It's a misunderstanding of the line "Windows Messenger is the preferred chat client". Since Windows Messenger is build in into Windows XP, I assumed you meant that by saying "preferred" and thus:

Many users who use Windows Messenger, use it because it is build in into Windows and they find it annoying that Windows Messenger is launched by itself at certain times while they use msn messenger. So they're logged out in msn messenger. And thus they use Windows Messenger because they can't fix that beheviour. That's why I suggested to "break" the link (again assuming, you were 'forced' to use windows messenger, but you wanted msn messenger)

btw: I did say *most* users prefer MSN Messenger, I didn't say you nessecairly preferred it.

quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
The point made is in *MY* situation - Windows Messenger IS the preferred client.

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quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
...we would have followed Jonathan Kay's advice as it is known to be a reliable source...

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Hi,

MSN Messenger was not ticked to start when Windows starts.

Once again - we have used all three of these products for a few years and are fairly familiar with their abilities and weaknesses.

As mentioned before - everything worked well until the latest forced MSN Messenger update.

The systems have been tested with various scenarios to isolate the issue (post MSN Messenger forced update).

At this point in time we have two choices:
A) Uninstall MSN Messenger
B) Uninstall Msgr Plus

A) leads to problems interacting with some customers
B) leads to either using another chat logging application or not being able to log the chats for customer follow-up reference.

At this point in time, MsgrPlus appears to be the culprit.  It appears there was something that the MSN Messenger forced update did that compromised the current build of Msgr Plus.

If Patchou prefers to approach this in the manner you are indicating (they are not seeking what might have broken an otherwise healthy setup) that is Patchou's prerogative. 

Our company is seeking other applications for auto-logging Messenger chats.  Once found, we will discontinue utilizing the Patchou product and will discontinue the recommendation of the product. 

Thank you again.

Did you try to uninstall MSN Messenger, redownload and reinstall?
Same with Plus!, did you tried a reinstall?

quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
If Patchou prefers to approach this in the manner you are indicating (they are not seeking what might have broken an otherwise healthy setup) that is Patchou's prerogative.

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quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
Our company is seeking other applications for auto-logging Messenger chats.  Once found, we will discontinue utilizing the Patchou product

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quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
and will discontinue the recommendation of the product.

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Good luck finding another product that logs the same way Messenger Plus! logs .

Anyway, I've read your post and I thank you for the very detailed bug report. It's always nice to get such a thing. I will test that within the next 24 hours and I'll post a reply if I find anything.

Patchou

Hi Patchou,

We had utilized other methods of chat logging before being introduced to your product.  They were successful as well.

Your effort to unravel the situation is appreciated - that is what was requested initially.   

The inital post was focused upon either attaining a potential fix/patch or to bring the recent issue to the attention of those working on the product in hopes of resolving the situation. 

The subsequent replies were quite frustrating.  They made irrelevant assumptions, did not address the situation and presented with an intent to lay the blame upon our systems as opposed to a potential (and not uncommon with upgrades) break in an otherwise healthy setup.

We have had other issues with MessengerPlus, yet they were not show stoppers.  We found ways to work around the problems.  We figured that MsgrPlus was a work of art in progress and appreciated the effort. 

We most definitely would not have posted until we had done our own homework and isolated the issues as much as possible.

This is the first time we have made the effort to seek assistance within your forums and as such have walked away severely disappointed.


Hi Cookie -

as stated in the previous posts:

MSN Messenger has been uninstalled and reinstalled
Messenger Plus has been uninstalled and reinstalled
Windows Messenger has been uninstalled and reinstalled.

Various patterns of installation/uninstallation/reinstallation have been followed in order to isolate the problem with the hope of finding a viable solution.

At this point in time - as long as Messenger Plus is installed - Windows Messenger will not launch if MSN Messenger is installed.  MSN Messenger launches instead.

Since we rely upon Windows Messenger this causes unnecessary aggravation and undue loss of time.

re: That sounds a bit harsh, don't you think?

We take pride in our recommendations to others.  We do not recommend products which are not supported. 

Until the post by Patchou - it appeared that this productline did not have a problem resolution oriented support staff.   It appeared that the support personnel did not adequately listen and were prone to making erroneous assumptions.  It appeared that they did not fully research potential bugs and had a tendency to dump blame on endusers.

This is quite frustrating for endusers and ultimately backlashes on us. 

quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
Until the post by Patchou - it appeared that this productline did not have a problem resolution oriented support staff.   It appeared that the support personnel did not adequately listen and were prone to making erroneous assumptions.  It appeared that they did not fully research potential bugs and had a tendency to dump blame on endusers.

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Hi WDZ,

You may be correct.   

As a counter to your post:

There are many sites (free/shareware and buyware)  in which endusers and/or volunteers are the main source of problem resolution.  These sites maintain a high degree of professionalism.

Given that, one can only hope you are not correct

If one considers Patchou's post, I am willing to bet you are incorrect!

SurfIsUp,

I've tried to reproduce this problem several times and I couldn't succeed. I'm using the same Windows version, Windows Messenger version and MSN Messenger version you reported in your first post. I know this may seem obvious but, did you try to reinstall Windows Messenger after updating your version of MSN Messenger? the kind of problem you're reporting is generally related to an unproper registration of Windows Messenger in the system.

The only times I got MSN Messenger to automatically start on my system was when another application was requesting the Messenger object (such as Outlook or Internet Explorer). I recommed you to uninstall any Messenger plugin you have (Messenger Plus! plugins and Windows Messenger service plugins) and let me know if it solves anything.

I know from past experience that bad registration of Messenger can cause a lot of different kind of problems. Generally, unisntalling both Windows Messenger and MSN Messenger, then reinstalling them both. I'm sorry I can't be more helpful and I hope that these suggestions will help you fix your problems. If they don't and if you are willing to put more time in this investigation, please send me an email to mplus@patchou.com. I'll send you a beta version of the forthcoming Plus!3. This version generates a debug log file that will help me find out what's going on on your computers. However, as I said previously, it is important to disable any registrer plugin before doing any test as plugins tend to call the Messenger API the wrong way.

Regards,
Patchou

I would be more than happy to invest more time in figuring this out. 

Hopefully it will benefit everyone.

email sent to the above email address.

Thank you for your time.

quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
The subsequent replies were quite frustrating.  They made irrelevant assumptions, did not address the situation and presented with an intent to lay the blame upon our systems as opposed to a potential (and not uncommon with upgrades) break in an otherwise healthy setup.

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quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
We figured that MsgrPlus was a work of art in progress and appreciated the effort.

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quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
as stated in the previous posts:
MSN Messenger has been uninstalled and reinstalled
Messenger Plus has been uninstalled and reinstalled
Windows Messenger has been uninstalled and reinstalled.

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quote:

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Originally posted by SurfIsUp
Until the post by Patchou - it appeared that this productline did not have a problem resolution oriented support staff. It appeared that the support personnel did not adequately listen and were prone to making erroneous assumptions.  It appeared that they did not fully research potential bugs and had a tendency to dump blame on endusers.

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SurfIsUp, I would just like to defend Cookie. You are probably not aware, as you haven't been here long, but Cookie has gone above and beyond helping people on these forums on topics including those that do not even involve Plus. I totally respect his knowledge, as he has proven his worth many times over, as have several other members such as Tochjo etc etc etc.

I hope you appreciate that they are free to leave this forum at any time, as they have nothing commiting them here, except through there own motivations to help people. While you get a broad spectrum of people on any forum, some, such as Cookie, are totally professional. I cannot stress enough how much he has contributed, as well as many others here. I find your posts bewildering at best.

Your problem seems uncommon, as no-one here seems to have been able to reproduce it. Do not see us as failures for being unable to know exactly how to fix your problem.

I apologise for this post, but I feel strongly about protecting those I see unjustly attacked.

Good luck in solving your problem! Plus is an excellent piece of software (I challenge you to find its equal in any field ), and Patchou is a most gracious host who is more than accomodating at helping people to fix problems.

Please please guys.... do not start this kind of discussion, that's what can bring you this kind of criticism by some users. I won't delete the last two posts because I know you are good helpers, but you have to keep in mind that in no situation whatsoever you should talk about about someone trying to get some help here. I won't talk too long about it but it is true that I already had a lot of echoes from many people about the fact that if you go on this forum to get some help, you either get none because your post is not read properly, or you get flamed. It is very important to realise that helping people means properly reading their post and keeping a smile at all time . Thank you for your cooperation guys.

Thread closed (I have no problem continuing this chat but in another thread please).