Hello everyone,

as some of you already know, an Messenger Plus! update was recently released due to compatibility problems with MSN Messenger 6.2. About a fourth of my users generally use the auto-update within the first week of an update, which is transformed in about 1,000,000 installs in only 7 days (added to the usual 80,000 daily installs)... that's a lot of people.

If you're a long time member of the Messenger community, you already know that some people regularly complain about the optional sponsor embedded in Messenger Plus!. In general, a couple of replies pointing to Add/Remove Programs solves the situation but when the volume of daily installs increases by 1500% (because of an auto-update), sponsor complains are getting more visible and, each time, some people start to wonder if there's some truth behind these allegations.

I'm writing this message to make you realise that the complains are always the same, they are just more concentrated on some occasions. Any long time user will tell you the same thing: the sponsor is NOT installed as long as you don't click "I Accept" and "Install" in the installer. More than that, the agreement window is ALWAYS displayed, whereas you launch the installer yourself or Messenger Plus! launches it as part of the auto-update procedure. If you don't trust my word, trust the facts: the Messenger Plus! forum would be dead and buried 10 feet under the ground if a million of people simultaneously got an unwanted adware program installed on their computer after upgrading their little Messenger add-on.

That being said, I'd like to talk about another topic, a new one, introduced by MSN Messenger 6.2. The latest update of Messenger Plus! was released the same day MSN Messenger 6.2 was released. You may want to notice that the installer of MSN Messenger 6.2 now proposes to install the MSN toolbar as well as the MSN search engine. Both of these options are actually enabled by default... these features are actually very similar to what my sponsor installs with the exception that in my installer, nothing is enabled by default. If so many people do install my sponsor by mistake, what do you think about the 150 million MSN Messenger users who will be prompted to upgrade the same way, with the options ticked on by default?

Don't get me wrong, Microsoft has all the right in the world to include this kind of option in its Messenger client; after all, this is one of the best (and harmless) way to generate some money on the internet nowadays (Yahoo, Google and a lot of other companies already realised that a long time ago). I just hope that people will not mistake my sponsor's toolbar with Microsoft's one. As both new versions are available at the same time, it is easy for less experienced people not to make the distinction. Just rest assured that the option to install the sponsor in Messenger Plus! is not checked by default, in any circumstance. Some people will always complain after installing Messenger Plus! because they clicked "I Accept" too fast in the agreement window; some of them will even insist on the fact that no option was offered to them during installation. These people are actually just too proud to admit that they missed the option because they click on every button too quickly. Once again, I understand that such mistake can happen and that's exactly why the Messenger Plus! uninstaller is designed to remove every single byte of the sponsor's program (please, stop trusting Adaware or similar programs blindly, they only makes things worse in a lot of situations).

I invite all of you who have some doubts to give Messenger Plus! a try, you'll quickly realise that it doesn't install any virus, trojan, or other kind unwanted software. Making my users happy is all I ever wanted, I'm not about to destroy more than 3 years of trust by trying to make a quick buck... that would be pretty dumb don't you think?

Thank you for reading,
Patchou

Nice one Patchou . Some people always do the same mistake by clicking everything in a hurry and not reading properly....

Not to worry...... Patchou!!! There is always some fans like me... who love MSG Plus!!!!

Great post, Patchou.

I didn't know about a new toolbar with Messenger 6.2... That could very well be what people are complaining about...

heh i used to be one of those people that clicked really fast but after seeing the mess.be warning of clicking refuse i didnt click it on messenger plus and now i read installers

Well said Patchou

I couldn't have put it better. It is a shame that these days a lot of people don’t take the time to read agreements and rush though everything just to get it over and installed. Its as-if everyone is in a hurry these days lol. Not that I haven’t in the past run installers without reading them.
It goes to show that if you did make that mistake by either not reading or just ignoring it then no one else is to blame but yourself
But you have made a good point talking about the MSN Messenger Toolbar and its default settings. It made the situation very clear as both are similar

Well said Patchou.  You have provided your wonderful software for FREE to over 4 Million Users and have every right in the world to include a sponsor, after all, you deserve it.  But instead you include an OPTIONAL sponsor, which you allow users to decide if they want to support you or not.  Although no doubt MSN Messenger 6.2 will cause some confusion between your softwares sponsor and MSN's toolbar, your users will stand by you.

We, the Messenger Plus! Community, have put 3 years of trust into you and we are not going to throw it away because you decided to include an OPTIONAL sponsor, so I think I can speak on behalf of almost all of the members of this forum when I say, We trust you Patchou.

Thanks for taking the time to write your post regarding the update, it will hopefully save a couple hundred posts about the MSN Toolbar and your sponsor.

well said, and i agree about the MSN Messenger 6.2 installer, well said

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Originally posted by Patchou
1,000,000 installs in only 7 days

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Originally posted by eXoenDo
We, the Messenger Plus! Community, have put 3 years of trust into you and we are not going to throw it away because you decided to include an OPTIONAL sponsor, so I think I can speak on behalf of almost all of the members of this forum when I say, We trust you Patchou.

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Weel said Patchou!

Some people are when they install the best add-on for MSN/Windows Messenger in the world

Well Said, ummm how much does patch get from this sponsor program, seminefrial if you ask me

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Originally posted by eXoenDo
We, the Messenger Plus! Community, have put 3 years of trust into you and we are not going to throw it away because you decided to include an OPTIONAL sponsor, so I think I can speak on behalf of almost all of the members of this forum when I say, We trust you Patchou.

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Originally posted by Choli
Well, about the sponsor, thanks for make we notice msn msg 6.2 installs (by dafault) a search bar too... that'll help us we people complain

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Originally posted by traxor
ummm how much does patch get from this sponsor program, seminefrial if you ask me

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster
Do you know how personal that question is?   You never ask someone how much they earn... he earns a fair good living from it from what i've been told, but it's nobody's business exactly how much he gets (unless he decides he wants to tell us)

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Originally posted by traxor
Well Said, ummm how much does patch get from this sponsor program, seminefrial if you ask me

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Well done
I suggest you to display a message box if the user agrees to install the sponsor...Like:
You have choosen to install the sponsor program.Are you sure you want to do this?, C++YesNo, "Are you sure?"

I don't think there is anything wrong with the sponsor installation window, patchou has done more than enough to make it obvious to the user (assuming they read it). the only thing that i, personally would do, is give the sponsor its own entry in the add/remove programs (e.g. Messenger Plus Sponsor Program). (as well as automatically removing the sponsor if plus is uninstalled, same as currently).

Hello,

First, let me say that I love Messenger Plus!

But...

Maybe I don't really know the difference between adware and spyware but this statement makes me feel like I will be spied on by the sponsor knowing what pages on the web I am looking at:

"Apropos LLC ("AP") will periodically deliver advertisements and promotional messages to your computer based, in part, on your interests as shown by the websites you view."

and...

"The Apropos AdServer displays Apropos Ads on computer screens on behalf of the Apropos Network's advertising clients and not necessarily on behalf of the Web site the Subscriber may be viewing when the ad appears. In fact, the Apropos Network's advertising clients may be competitors of the publishers whose Web pages Subscribers may be viewing, or may have recently viewed."

This tells me that Apropos knows every second where I am on the web and ready to give me something I didn't ask for.  Therefore, I see it as spyware.  Didn't approve it, either.

I'm sorry but I do question the integrity of the person that will compromise.  There are a lot of unsuspecting new comers to the internet and I believe that there are a lot of trusting folks out there that believed you wouldn't deliver such things to them.

Please don't get me wrong,  I am just asking you to think about what is happening here and to not lose the trust of alot of folks out there, for money.  I have heard if you lose trust and integrity, you ultimately fail.  Again, I love Messenger Plus and I know how to handle something like this but there are a lot of users out there that don't.  My daughter is one and she has to deal with getting rid of it.  Please, protect people from resource grabbing vultures like this. 

Just my 2 cents.

First, hello and welcome to the forums ,

The sponsor program used by Plus! was designed for Patchou specifically so you can't base on texts you found on the internet about these sponsors. The sponsorprogram also has been tested and scanned for spyware, adware and virusses before it was added to Plus!.

Well, it's true that modern advertisement programs tend to display their content based on your interests. I have no insights on how things really work, my opinion on this subject is as good as any other, but I would tend to think that you should take this analyse in the positive way: they do that to target their users. Thsi is a way to prevent tons of popups to appear on your screen for products you don't care about. The different with a spyware is that a spyware would send your information in a server, along with some other personal information (like your email), and that is definitively NOT done by my sponsor.

I know this is a delicate subject and if you want to continue it, I'd rather talk about it in another thread .

Hi Patchou,

Thank you for your response and I appreciate your being open for this subject to be discussed further.  I hope I pick the right place to put it.  I would first like to respond to Kryptonate.

Hi Krytonate,

Thank you for the welcome.

I just wanted to let you know that I did not get those quotes from the internet.  I got that from the terms I had to agree to for the download.  Thanks, though for your response.

maybe you could attatch a readme text file to the install and at the end of the install you could have a check box for veiw read me and the read me could have stuff about how to get rid of the sponsor if they clicked on i accept

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Originally posted by chungster
the read me could have stuff about how to get rid of the sponsor if they clicked on i accept

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Patchou's Edit: er... it's actually 80,000 .. not that it matters but still.....

Patchou needs to make a living and if it's been said once it's been said a 100 times the sponsor program is a good idea.
Although Microsoft do not need to put their toolbar in the MSN Messenger installer for the reasons they do. It's purely because they want people to install a toolbar that they can't market because it's unpopular.

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Originally posted by chopsticks
maybe you could attatch a readme text file to the install and at the end of the install you could have a check box for veiw read me and the read me could have stuff about how to get rid of the sponsor if they clicked on i accept

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How is Patchou paid by the sponsor? Is it by the number of installs or the amount of use of the sponsor.

If it is by the number of installs i think everyone should install as a way of saying thank you to Patchou on the release of MP3.  Then everyone who dosent want it (including myself) can then promptly uninstall it.

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Originally posted by rimmer
How is Patchou paid by the sponsor? Is it by the number of installs or the amount of use of the sponsor.

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Originally posted by Anubis
The Sponsor Company pays Patchou to include it...

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Originally posted by Choli
i don't think so, because in that case patchou would include it but delete the option to install it, so none of his users complain.

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Originally posted by Anubis

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Originally posted by Choli
i don't think so, because in that case patchou would include it but delete the option to install it, so none of his users complain.

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Perhaps not...the company would most likely check that it was in the installer...but now you mention it yeah it's most likely judged on the amount...can someone who knows clear this up?

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For the record: I'being paid by searches (and only for some of them), so I wouldn't win a cent even if a billion users installed my sponsor tomorrow . PaidByInstall are generalle more vicious adware (sypwares) that do things I wouldn't want to happen to my users.

I have been a long-term user of Messenger Plus! (although I am not a very active forum member).  I trust you now and I will always trust you.  I don't get it.  A lot of people just check "agree" and install things without understand what they are going to install.  Patchou, keep it up.  I will been telling a lot of my friends to install Messenger Plus! and to come and support you.

well i'd just like to comment about something.. i noticed (as i am also a plus user) that when i had an old version of plus and i install via your lovely auto-update, automatically installed spyware with it... now thats ok if you want that in program to make a lil extra cash, but atleast asking you to install or not would of been nice.. and really, its a blatent break of the agreement of installation when i chose not to install spyware.. its a criminal offence if im not mistaken if the user was misled when not agreeing to the install..

dude chill first off if you scroll up you ll see that its optional and to reinstall plus without all that stuff go to http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=21598 and you did agree to a license agreement and it protects him from being sued and yelling at him that wont help just uninstall it and if you dont want it dont install it but dont complain to things when you already agreed

how about first of all when i installed it first off, i said no to installing spyware, then to update and it installs without my knowledge so no i wont "chill".. if u agree not to have it, then update finding it does install, why should i have to bother going through the steps of reinstalling .. simple as that

the time you took to post thsoe two messages would be equal to the time it would take to reinstall it

obviously not getting my point.. why should anyone need to reinstall something they got updated!!!! what a very helpful person u have been <end sarcasm>

yes.. thats true.. i remember ask a friend i have in my contacts list:

"Hey can you see my colourfull nickname..?"
and he says: "no!"
i ask: "dont u have plus! installed?:
he answers:" noo!first time i installed that i had a virus on my computer.."

well i started laughing like a .. lol.. then i just inserted this emoticon: and i said, you shouldnt be in my contacts list..


lol.. but hes not the only one.. there are more people.. but oh well...

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Originally posted by doggie
how about first of all when i installed it first off, i said no to installing spyware, then to update and it installs without my knowledge so no i wont "chill".. if u agree not to have it, then update finding it does install, why should i have to bother going through the steps of reinstalling .. simple as that

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Originally posted by Fredzz
well i started laughing like a .. lol.. then i just inserted this emoticon: and i said, you shouldnt be in my contacts list..

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Updates are never done silently, you just missed the agreement screen my friend .

well strangely enough, it silently installed.. <_<

I'm sorry I have to disagree. You can reinstall .74, exit Messenger, move your clock 8 days ahead, restart Messenger, signin and wait 5 min to get the update message. You'll then see that nothign is done silently

that is kinda my point my dear patchou, you shouldnt need to do a few changes to things to fix problems.. they shouldnt be like, should be nicely automated for you but anyways, doesnt matter now

if this hasnt been said, how about a window before the sponser box with an alert:
ALERT
the next option is just that, OPTIONAL
you DO NOT have to choose 'yes'

I just pointed out a way to see by yourself that the auto-update gives you the same choices than normal installation. Both my instaklelr and my uninstaller are fully automated and do not require anything from you but two or three button clicks .

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Originally posted by Patchou
You can reinstall .74, exit Messenger, move your clock 8 days ahead, restart Messenger, signin and wait 5 min to get the update message

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Originally posted by jackass_wanabe

so its out in 8 days???

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