hello, I have just started with programming at my school.. we use visual basic.. so I am basically a n00b.. but by reading this forum, I have got the feeling that Visual basic is a piece of shit, pardon my french..  so i was wondering wich program is the best for making a plugin..?

can anyone give me a brief answer? tnx

Visual basic is fine for making plugins...
And its also easy
So I suggest you to go with vb...

indeed, VB isn't piece of shit. It is a very decent programming language in which you can do lots of (advanced) things. Don't let VB-haters tell you that VB isn't good.

Of course VC++ can do some more things because it is more advanced. But because of that, it is also more difficult to learn.

But almost all things can be done in VB, including plugins and even writing big advanced programs.

jup, that was what i was thinking too, because isnt windows written in visual basic or something?? since its a microsoft program?

Windows is not written with vb.
However you can use windows functions for example set a window's caption to "Hello"

It really depends on what you are making. Big projects (such as Plus!) are best developed with C++ because loads of things are rather low-leveled in C++, compared with VB, and hence programmers needs to do many things themselves, while "molding" all they need, with C++. Still, Cookie is right, VB can actually realize lots of advanced things; if you want to develop a Plus! plugin only, and have just begun to learn VB, just stick to it It is not that VB is a toy - owing to VB's simplicity and easiness, it's the best programming language to construct many basic, yet essential, programming "concepts/ideas" such as how to best-use a loop, a selecting statement, an array...etc

okey, but is java the newest version of c++? and can u make dll files with VB? I got VB6.0, but on the universities in norway u use Java.. Im just 18, and next year im starting on the university, so do i get any use for the programming skills i learn this year?

Java isn't the newest version of C++. Java is a complete different language.

You can make DLL's, OCX's, whatever with VB...

You will benefit a lot from your learned programming skills. Programming is in essence the same in every language. A loop is a loop; how you approach certain things is the same; problems solving is the same; etc... The only difference is that different languages use different syntaxis. But the "programming" is the same. What you will learn now is think like a computer; learn what a program is; how it behaves; basic "skills"; etc. and you can indeed learn that the best and the quickest if you start in VB, because that is the easiest to understand and work with.

After that, you can (and apperently you will) switch to other languages like Java or C++. And you will find that learning those other languages will be very easy as the concept of programming is still the same in every language, you only need to learn the new syntax and then you can learn the new advanced things you can do with it....

From my point of view, VB is OK to start and learn the basics of programming. But it is true that it is not as powerful as other languages, such as VC++ or Delphi. If you want to "get dirty" and do more advanced stuff, you'll have to switch to another language. VB mostly sucks because it doesn't do real calls to the API, everything passes through the MSVBVM??.DLL

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From http://www.palmdigitalmedia.com/product/book/excerpt/4844
Although distributing the 1.4-megabyte runtime file with your VB6 applications is annoying, it is essential for two reasons:

    1. The VB Runtime provides services such as automatic memory management, string allocation/deallocation, and saftey checking on code. If, for example, your VB code tries to reference an array outside its boundaries, the VB Runtime steps in and informs you that an illegal operation is being performed. This is in contrast to languages such as C and C++, where memory access is not monitored, resulting in potentially catastrophic failures if code misbehaves. And, unlike C and C++, the VB Runtime will automatically clean up after you, destroying objects and variables once they go out of scope.

    2. The VB Runtime also houses intrinsic VB functions such as MsgBox, Ubound, and InStr. For years, VB developers have routinely used such functions for string manipulation, type conversion, and user input. The code for these functions is contained in the VB Runtime. When you call Mid() to extract a substring from a string, you are really calling a function in the VB Runtime that performs the work. Without the VB Runtime, a VB application would be reduced to a meaningless collection of function calls.

From these two observations, it can be said that a Visual Basic 6 application runs within the VB Runtime. In fact, the name of the runtime file is indicative of this very purpose: MSVBVM stands for MicroSoft Visual Basic Virtual Machine.

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Anyone with an IQ roughly the same as his age can program in VB.

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
If you're ever going to learn another programming language, you'll have to forget almost everything you learnt with VB

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well, he said "almost" everything

TB, that is simply not true. The whole concept of programming and "thinking like a program" is EXACT the same as in every other language... (Even in languages like isolab)


Can I "kindly" ask to stop your l77t talk, we all know you are a very good C++ programmer (best on the forum, besides Patchou) and that you hate VB, but "trop is teveel" (dutch expression)... stop being the l77t highflyer "I wrote the best thing in the world and nothing can beat me or C++". I hope for you that you will never choose to become a teacher or you will have a nervous breakdown from the very first day......


and I though a while before posting this because I know you will jump directly on your horse whenever someone says something about C++ and/or your programming skills and/or something you've made, but I had to say it...

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
...in which there are already two mistakes in one simple if statement.
If you cannot see those mistakes, and you can't be bothered, I'd recommend never even looking at programming again and go live on dreaming of VB. if however you want to learn REAL programming, find out, if a computer can only store numbers, how can you match two strings? I'll give you two hints: arrays, ascii...

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Originally posted by ashmanto
hello, I have just started with programming at my school.. we use visual basic.. so I am basically a n00b.. but by reading this forum, I have got the feeling that Visual basic is a piece of shit, pardon my french..  so i was wondering wich program is the best for making a plugin..?

can anyone give me a brief answer? tnx

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
indeed, VB isn't piece of shit. It is a very decent programming language in which you can do lots of (advanced) things. Don't let VB-haters tell you that VB isn't good.

Of course VC++ can do some more things because it is more advanced. But because of that, it is also more difficult to learn.

But almost all things can be done in VB, including plugins and even writing big advanced programs.

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Originally posted by ashmanto
jup, that was what i was thinking too, because isnt windows written in visual basic or something?? since its a microsoft program?

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
You can make DLL's, OCX's, whatever with VB...

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
Ask a proffesional programmer, who's been programming a bit longer, and there's a 90% chance he WILL agree on VB being shit.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Ask a prof programmer and he will say that C++ is more powerful, but he wil NOT say that VB is shit. He will say that VB is very good to start learning and very easy to learn and understand the concept of programming and that you can still do lots of things in it.

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
What real programming is how to solve certain problems, like sorting arrays. in VB you can do this, easily, by making a list object and calling sort. but now be honest, how much of that did YOU do?
nothing, you just told vb to sort it for you, which is yet just another command.
The thing I said about having to forget everything about basic before starting real programming is best explained using simple string matching. One of the most made mistakes among vb people trying to switch to C is:
code:

if ("string" = "string" ) { };


in which there are already two mistakes in one simple if statement.
If you cannot see those mistakes, and you can't be bothered, I'd recommend never even looking at programming again and go live on dreaming of VB. if however you want to learn REAL programming, find out, if a computer can only store numbers, how can you match two strings? I'll give you two hints: arrays, ascii...

nothing more to be said...

EDIT: just one more thing to be said, this is not for getting my right, this is not because I hate VB or love C++, but VB is simply not programming, and if someone wants to learn programming he should learn it the proper way...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
On a sidenote, but related. You can even learn how to program without a programming language! In fact, pro programmers still use pen/paper to write workflows down; and that is the exact skill to be learned in programming. When writing down the workflow you don't bother about "oi, the pc only reconize 1's and 0's, how am I gonna make a string...", because that is not important...

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* Choli remembers those ugly subjects at the Uni about that

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer

code:

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if ("string" = "string" ) { };

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You need to use TWO equal sign in "condition" statements. C-like language differentiate = (assigning operator) and == (equality operator) a lot.


Now, I think switching VB to C++ is not easy either, but that again depends on how deep you get into in VB. For example, I'd been coding in VB for six years before I chose to fully switch to C++, and that was rather a pain at first - I was too accustomed to VB's language structure.

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Originally posted by Mike2
Its hard to switch from vb to C/C++...

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code:

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while(*dst++=*src++);/*just an example with pointers and unary operators*/

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Sorry to bring this back, but I've found an excellent article and I wanted to post it here: http://www.codexterity.com/raw-delphi/index.htm

sorry tb, but I completely agree with CR in this case...

I started playing with qbasic when I was about 6/7 years old. After that I did a bit of VB and last year I followed an university course c++ datastructures during schooltime.

Of course I liked c++ a LOT immediately, because you learn to program 'the basics'. I learnt a lot during that course and think I'm a quite good c++ programmer now. Still I made some of my plugins with VB, just because it goes faster for me (GUI creating, standard functions, etc). And best of all, they still work fine!
So I don't see the reason why I should make small programs with c++ instead of vb when I can make them faster with vb.

And to my opinion the programming itself isn't the most important task in creating an application, the designing of the program is. And for the design it doesn't matter a lot in which language you want to write a program, it'll all comes down to the same thing more or less...

Let me bring my 5 cents to this thread... I am personally not a VB programmer, not at all. I started with C/c++ directly so I never had to switch. However,the fact remains: C++ is a third generation language, VB is a fourth generation (like C#).

The fact that the syntax is easier could just mean the language itself is better. I had some problems withVB6 but VB.NET is an excellent language. It's still called VB but Microsoft worked 5 years on it to rethink everything and make it a very good alternative to VC for other projects. The fact is that VB.NET is prettysimilar to C# in a lot of ways and a lot of peopel agree (me included) that C# is a gem for a lot of things, especially when databases and internet stuff are involved. The only people who generally disagree are Javorons (Java morons).

Sayign that somethign is better just because it's more complicated to master is pretty dumb (sorry TB, I had to say this). It'sthe same kind of argument I'Ve been fighting  for years when people are talking about the supperiority of Linux. A lot of people are always happy in the fact that they are within the few who master something and it's never been so true in the world of Linux. The same thign applied with development languages.

I hope what I just said will mean somethingfor some of you. In any case, I stay a C++ developer, I love the language but sometimes, you still have to face the reality. One of the most disgusting seen I've seen in the past 3 years are C++ .NET Managed Extension.. this stuff was an error, even before beingreleased. This just proves that C++ isn't made for everything and sometimes, evolutions are necessary to avoid unecessary complications.

Note: oen thing that proves my point is that .NET Managed Extensions for Visual C++ have been rewritten from scratch by Microsoft in the forthcoming Visual Studio 2005 L(