Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? - Printable Version
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Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by .blade// on 10-29-2004 at 05:57 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Longhorn Development Center
The next version of Windows, code-named "Longhorn," will be a significant improvement for customers. It is designed to be a foundation upon which the industry can launch a new wave of innovation. Microsoft's goal is to enable customers to better realize the full benefits of the technology, while enabling businesses to use the technology more effectively, with far fewer barriers. Longhorn represents the most significant step forward in the Windows platform since the move from 16-bit to 32-bit computing in 1995.
Video Presentations of Longhorn in use
Understanding Longhorn
Do you think Longhorn will be such a leap forward, or will it be WIndows XP Seccond edition like a certain Elite member says
?Note: It also looks like Longhorn will be mainly for 64-bit processors
(Note: After watching a video or two it seems there is a lot more integration and cooperation of various features in Longhorn).
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Millenium_edition on 10-29-2004 at 06:07 PM
for me it'll be XP with even more graphical shit and some leet-ass new programming api's.
for the rest, it's the same update as 2k -> XP, except that now it's XP -> longhorn.
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by .blade// on 10-29-2004 at 06:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Millenium_edition
for me it'll be XP with even more graphical shit and some leet-ass new programming api's.
for the rest, it's the same update as 2k -> XP, except that now it's XP -> longhorn.
Well I don't know - a lot of things are different
There's a new file system, new layout, lew log-in system and many many new features. I think it will be a bit of a bigger jump than 2k-xp (and hopefully with less holes this time 
)
RE: RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Hank on 10-30-2004 at 12:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by blade
quote:
Originally posted by Millenium_edition
for me it'll be XP with even more graphical shit and some leet-ass new programming api's.
for the rest, it's the same update as 2k -> XP, except that now it's XP -> longhorn.
Well I don't know - a lot of things are different
with less Holes? this is Microsoft we talking bout ere .
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Millenium_edition on 10-30-2004 at 08:44 AM
quote:that's not funny.
Originally posted by Demandred
with less Holes? this is Microsoft we talking bout ere .
RE: RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Hank on 10-30-2004 at 09:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Millenium_edition
quote:that's not funny.
Originally posted by Demandred
with less Holes? this is Microsoft we talking bout ere .
Umm, wasnt meant to be funny, if it was i woulda asked Rodney Rude to say it for me
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by matty on 10-31-2004 at 02:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Demandred
Umm, wasnt meant to be funny, if it was i woulda asked Rodney Rude to say it for me
quote:
Originally posted by Demandred
with less Holes? this is Microsoft we talking bout ere .
I am seriously getting sick and tired of stupid comments like this. According to the forum rules this is spam. Read them before you get banned. (http://shoutbox.menthix.net/rules.html)
The posts are classified as spam because they contribute nothing useful to the thread. Just your useless comments regarding a great company.
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Chestah on 10-31-2004 at 03:31 AM
Matty, Demandred was merely expresssing his opinon, not EVERYONE likes Microsoft, i don't know of one company where absolutely everyone is satisfied with their efforts.
The title of this thread is " Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary?"
Hence his posts are relevent in helping users of this forum and of course the many outside people that use this forum for information. Its a known fact that Windows has many security holes (i actually like M$ but still u have to admit the facts) and Demandred was merely commenting his opinon of if Windows longhorn is going to be revoluntary - which he clearly answers no.
Matty does have a point tho, so can both please quit your fighting, everyone is getting sick of it!
Chestah
P.s i do think Windows Longhorn will be revoluntionary, maybe not the biggest step between technology in OS history but still none the less a big one 
RE: RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by auhsor on 10-31-2004 at 09:10 AM
quote:Didnt they take out the new file system because it was going to take them too long?
Originally posted by blade
Well I don't know - a lot of things are different
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Stigmata on 10-31-2004 at 09:11 AM
You think longhorn is impressive 
wait for blackcomb 
RE: RE: RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by big_matty5 on 10-31-2004 at 09:21 AM
quote:
Originally posted by auhsor
quote:Didnt they take out the new file system because it was going to take them too long?
Originally posted by blade
Well I don't know - a lot of things are different
Yer they've taken WINFS out of the first release (2006 sometime)... But are apparently going to make it available later... news is still scetchy, i guess we'll know in time...
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by mad_onion on 10-31-2004 at 04:21 PM
well i wouldnt like to say revolutionary because it might get peoples hopes up but it will be something pretty special i dont know how much because its still in alpha so it might change but it does look nice.
![[Image: wb-clock.gif]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/mad_onion/wb-clock.gif)
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by auhsor on 11-01-2004 at 03:58 AM
Well from what I have seen from other screenshots too, is that I don't really like the interface. It seems they have gone backwards form XP. I don't know, I guess using it will be a different experience, and the fact that it is still in development.
I'm a bit skeptical about the whole thing.
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Chestah on 11-01-2004 at 08:24 AM
Auhsor the interface will have a huge haulover before its released, its just in Beta (mayb even aplha? not sure)! its like the most definite thing thats gonna happen !
RE: RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Hank on 11-01-2004 at 12:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Chestah
Auhsor the interface will have a huge haulover before its released, its just in Beta (mayb even aplha? not sure)! its like the most definite thing thats gonna happen
LongHorn is just another XP with only a few things thats New, M$ need to put the New File System in if its gonna get people actually Buying Longhorn,
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Choli on 11-01-2004 at 04:29 PM
IMO, Longhorn will be a revolutionary OS. It's being coded from scratch, which I think it will be great because they can make a good design, since the begining. NTFS will still be the main native filesystem of Longhorn. WinFS is only like a virtual filesystem, a layer between the real NTFS filesystem and some files and folders (as long as I know, only some folders and their files and subfolders will be in WinFS, like My documments, Program files and few more). Longhorn will have (the same as XP) 2 versions: one for 32-bits systems and other for 64 bits. M$ can't make only one version. There are and there will be from now to the release of Longhorm, lots of computers based on the x86 architecture (32 bits) and M$ has to give support for them. They can't stay with WinXP and for M$ is quite easy to create a 32 bit version of Longhorm.
From my point of view, the release of Longhorm will mark a before and an after in the OSes history, comparable with the releases of Win95 and WinXP. Currently, the available screen shots of Longhorm look like a WinXP with a revised black theme. And that's true, but the relase of Longhorm is far and until then, M$ will change lots of things. It's expected that they include a 3D desktop with 3D windows with movements and effects in 3D.
As a summary, I'd say this: Don't evaluate an OS only lookiong and its screen shots. That is probably the less important part of it. Look at its features, what it can do, its design, etc... IMO, Lognhorm will be much better than its predecessors in those things.
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Chestah on 11-01-2004 at 08:19 PM
exactly Choli ! you explained that alot better then i did !! Aren't M$ also hoping that by the time longhorn comes out that widescreens are popular so that the sidebar doesn't clutter and use up all of the users screen?
Chestah
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by .blade// on 11-01-2004 at 08:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Chestah
exactly Choli
Chestah
Actually, it isn't bad if you resize it a bit...you get used to it - even get to like it
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by CookieRevised on 11-01-2004 at 08:46 PM
Of what I've been seeing and reading about it, it seems that more and more things are getting integrated within eachother. This can be a good thing and a bad thing.
Although it is userfriendly to the _absolute_ beginner, it can (and even is, atm) a real pain in the *beep* for more advanced users. Also the "friendlyness" and "integration" keeps the user in the dark about what really is going on, in their computer. This makes that people will not have the slightest clue anymore of what they are exactly doing.
This happens even now, today. Look at the questions on the net and other helpdesks, IRC-channels, etc. Nowadays, if you say "download that file and open it", many people don't have a clue of what the difference is between downloading, storing something on the HD and opening it. I see this everyday when I look at peoples computers: random files everywhere, and yet they say they don't have something: "I've downloaded it, but can't find it"....
Now you can say: that's something which always has happend, and we all where "noobs" once. Well, no, there is a significant difference. The whole "integration" and "keep the user in the dark" is partially (well, more then partially) to be blamed for that:
There is no learning curve anymore, and that is a bad thing. A PC is a machine; a tool. You need to learn the basics to know how to handle it (what is a folder? what is a file? What is a directory-structure?). But when even the basics are thrown out, the new beginner will not have a clue anymore when something is wrong ("I cant find that downloaded file").
Is Longhorn going to be revolutionary? Yes
Will it be a benefit for the knowledge of people about PC's? No (heck even todays Windows OS's are already slowing down the needed "learning-curve".)
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Choli on 11-01-2004 at 10:16 PM
quote:Maybe
Originally posted by Chestah
Aren't M$ also hoping that by the time longhorn comes out that widescreens are popular so that the sidebar doesn't clutter and use up all of the users screen?
quote:I agree. Maybe the idea of M$ is make the user think that the net and his/her HD is the same thing, where there's no diference between having a file in local or in remote.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
This happens even now, today. Look at the questions on the net and other helpdesks, IRC-channels, etc. Nowadays, if you say "download that file and open it", many people don't have a clue of what the difference is between downloading, storing something on the HD and opening it. I see this everyday when I look at peoples computers: random files everywhere, and yet they say they don't have something: "I've downloaded it, but can't find it"....
quote:imo, in the future there won't be files and folders (at least in window OSes). The tendency is to have a place called My XXX (not porno
Originally posted by CookieRevised
what is a folder? what is a file? What is a directory-structure?).
) where XXX is documents, music, logs, videos, images, bla bla bla... The user goes there and finds what s/he's looking for. Of course, there will be a period of time of transition, where there are both files and folders, and "places" like my XXX. (which internally are folders and files). With longhorn some files and folders will be in WinFS. I think that that is the first step to the goal of removing files and folders. It's an higer level of abstraction where there is no directory structure, tree-based; but a relationship database of information I don't know if this will be good or not. Personally, I don't like very much the idea of having WinFS. I think it's useless. Anyway, time to time...quote:there's also another difference: Some people haven't ever been a n00b. (let's say) 10-15 years ago, people who bought a PC were "cleverer" than today's users and they had the required knowledge to understand what a tree-like directory structure is, for example. Nowadays, the big companies try to sell they products to everyone, to all users of all ages; so the software has to be more and more user friendly. This implies a hide of the more technical details, which every day more, are less technical.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Now you can say: that's something which always has happend, and we all where "noobs" once.
RE: RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by user2319 on 11-02-2004 at 08:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Of what I've been seeing and reading about it, it seems that more and more things are getting integrated within eachother. This can be a good thing and a bad thing.
Although it is userfriendly to the _absolute_ beginner, it can (and even is, atm) a real pain in the *beep* for more advanced users. Also the "friendlyness" and "integration" keeps the user in the dark about what really is going on, in their computer. This makes that people will not have the slightest clue anymore of what they are exactly doing.
This happens even now, today. Look at the questions on the net and other helpdesks, IRC-channels, etc. Nowadays, if you say "download that file and open it", many people don't have a clue of what the difference is between downloading, storing something on the HD and opening it. I see this everyday when I look at peoples computers: random files everywhere, and yet they say they don't have something: "I've downloaded it, but can't find it"....
Now you can say: that's something which always has happend, and we all where "noobs" once. Well, no, there is a significant difference. The whole "integration" and "keep the user in the dark" is partially (well, more then partially) to be blamed for that:
There is no learning curve anymore, and that is a bad thing. A PC is a machine; a tool. You need to learn the basics to know how to handle it (what is a folder? what is a file? What is a directory-structure?). But when even the basics are thrown out, the new beginner will not have a clue anymore when something is wrong ("I cant find that downloaded file").
Is Longhorn going to be revolutionary? Yes
Will it be a benefit for the knowledge of people about PC's? No (heck even todays Windows OS's are already slowing down the needed "learning-curve".)
Another bad thing about integreation is that the various integrated components are so much integrated that they can't function when program "x" is not working properly. So, when a user *beep*'s up program "x", and then he can't use program "y" anymore, because it relies on program "x". Or, a virus exploiting a bug in program "x", may also be able to destroy program "y"'s data.
I don't like the way MS integrates their stuff. First of all, their stuff is crap, so you don't want them to be stuck in the OS (Opera/Firefox are far superior to IE, Thunderbird works like a charm
(dunno if it's actually better, since I haven't used Outlook for ages))Longhorn revolutionary? Maybe.. but you are looking at it's features now, and there might be more features scrapped, and even if they are all going to make it through, it's going to be a loooong time before Longhorn releases, and we don't know what the competition has to offer for Longhorn by that time.
Longhorn insecure? I don't know. Win9x was very unstable, and I must admit that WinXP doesn't crash that often (still crashes too often, though). Microsofts' focus on security didn't influence WinXP, but it'll influence Longhorn. Will it be enough? I don't think so. MS still wants to be compatible with the past. They should be compatible with the future!
If people mean that Longhorn will be revolutionary if you upgrade from it's predecessor, XP, well probably yes. But XP was made in 2001, with some crappy[1] "security center" SP2 update in 2004, and Longhorn isn't going to be released until '05 '06. 4-5 years is a long time in the computer industry!
If you are talking about revolutionary, you should be talking about the competition in 2005-2006. Mac OS X is already full of eye-candy, and the noob-friendly GNU/linux distributions seem to have hired some graphics artists too!
(I've got this beatifull water+green grass+blue sky picture with SUSE 9.1!)[1]If a virus turns off the security center+the virus scanner, people won't notice, because when the security center is turned off, it won't warn you that virus scanner is broken, and when the security center is turned off, you won't notice!! Therefore, I refer to it as "crappy".
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Choli on 11-02-2004 at 09:37 PM
quote:can really a virus do that? i don't think so.
Originally posted by PlusFan
1]If a virus turns off the security center+the virus scanner, people won't notice, because when the security center is turned off, it won't warn you that virus scanner is broken, and when the security center is turned off, you won't notice!! Therefore, I refer to it as "crappy".
quote:don't compare Mac to windows, because they run in different machines (apple vs x86)
Originally posted by PlusFan
If you are talking about revolutionary, you should be talking about the competition in 2005-2006. Mac OS X is already full of eye-candy, and the noob-friendly GNU/linux distributions seem to have hired some graphics artists too! (I've got this beatifull water+green grass+blue sky picture with SUSE 9.1!)
about linux, it's "user friendlyness" is very far from windows'. In 2001 you could connect an usb pen drive and Windows xp automatically detected it and "mounted" it in an unit (asigned a drive letter). Today, 2004, I haven't seen any linux able to do that. Just an example of the user friendly.
M$'s integration is much better than linux', imo. Example: everywhere in windows you can do Ctrl + C, Ctrl + V to copy-paste things. In linux... well, that depends on the program. It may be select, middle click or Ctrl+K, Ctrl+Y or Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, etc... There's no a clear unification of the way things are done. That's the point where linuxers have to improve their kernel, programs, etc...
And Windows has security holes? yes, the same as linux. But the ones of linux are less known and are constantly updated in next versions. A important thing to know is that Windows OS is way bigger than the kernel of Linux. THere are very much more lines of code in Windows. It's normal that there are bugs.
With all this, i do not mean that windows is better. It has better things. Linux too. But for the final user, the in-home user, I'd highly recommend Windows.
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Concord Dawn on 11-03-2004 at 12:37 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Choli
quote:can really a virus do that? i don't think so.
Originally posted by PlusFan
1]If a virus turns off the security center+the virus scanner, people won't notice, because when the security center is turned off, it won't warn you that virus scanner is broken, and when the security center is turned off, you won't notice!! Therefore, I refer to it as "crappy".
quote:don't compare Mac to windows, because they run in different machines (apple vs x86)
Originally posted by PlusFan
If you are talking about revolutionary, you should be talking about the competition in 2005-2006. Mac OS X is already full of eye-candy, and the noob-friendly GNU/linux distributions seem to have hired some graphics artists too! (I've got this beatifull water+green grass+blue sky picture with SUSE 9.1!)
about linux, it's "user friendlyness" is very far from windows'. In 2001 you could connect an usb pen drive and Windows xp automatically detected it and "mounted" it in an unit (asigned a drive letter). Today, 2004, I haven't seen any linux able to do that. Just an example of the user friendly.
M$'s integration is much better than linux', imo. Example: everywhere in windows you can do Ctrl + C, Ctrl + V to copy-paste things. In linux... well, that depends on the program. It may be select, middle click or Ctrl+K, Ctrl+Y or Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, etc... There's no a clear unification of the way things are done. That's the point where linuxers have to improve their kernel, programs, etc...
And Windows has security holes? yes, the same as linux. But the ones of linux are less known and are constantly updated in next versions. A important thing to know is that Windows OS is way bigger than the kernel of Linux. THere are very much more lines of code in Windows. It's normal that there are bugs.
With all this, i do not mean that windows is better. It has better things. Linux too. But for the final user, the in-home user, I'd highly recommend Windows.
Well, I've used a couple of Mac computers in my short lifetime, and they seem to hang while starting up. I was at a science competition, and we had to put together a PowerPoint presentation (PP for Mac) and one of the computers lost power. We turned it back on, and it took, no joke, 45 minutes for it to get to the login screen. While this might look like I'm saying that Mac OS is bad, you might want to keep reading. Mac OS is MUCH more secure than Windows. Windows has too many security holes for my taste. I patch them up as best I can, using programs like Norton, and Spybot, and Firefox
. But there's only so far I can patch it without having to edit Windows. Which isn't all that hard, considering that all you have to do is open a command prompt window, and edit explorer.exe. Anyways, what I think is that Windows should look at trying to expand their market. They did a really good job with XP, as it almost never needed a restart, unless you did a big update (SP2 for example) to your computer. Older versions (98, 95) sucked because you had to restart before you could use a program. Now, though, Microsoft has to focus on making their platform THE platform for everything. The main way to do this, in my opinion, is to add endless amounts of goodies that can be tapped by people installing certain programs. For example, let's say you have a graphics artist. Windows could have a feature that, when Photoshop (or a similiar program) was installed, cuold allow you to turn your desktop into a drawing studio, with dockable/hideable toolbars with the different tools. But these options wouldn't appear unless the person had Photoshop installed, because Windows would need a program that supported whatever was needed. Then, let's say you have a music mixer. What about having Windows allow access to advanced Windows Media features, such as creating an internet radio station hosted by Microsoft or some affiliate, or maybe adding features into Windows Media Player that allow the user to play around with the song as it's playing, to give him inspiration. Not only would these ideas increase product appeal, but they would also not take up much space or processing power, since they would only be activated when the required programs were installed. Of course, the feature to turn these things off would be included. Just my two cents.RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Choli on 11-03-2004 at 10:09 PM
quote:THe idea is good, however, imo, it isn't windows who should include those features. All that can already be done (and i think that's how it has to be done) by the programs theirselves. It has to be photoshop, WMP, etc... who adds those toolbars, new features, etc... Adding them in Windows would increase the final price of the product. It's better to add them in separate programs. Also,, for people who won't use those features, they not only won't be enabled but also won't be installed. Only installed and enabled when installing the programs. Better idea.
Originally posted by Chaotic_Shield
For example, let's say you have a graphics artist. Windows could have a feature that, when Photoshop (or a similiar program) was installed, cuold allow you to turn your desktop into a drawing studio, with dockable/hideable toolbars with the different tools. But etc..........
quote:M$ isn't gonna do that. Even less if it's supposed to be free
Originally posted by Chaotic_Shield
an internet radio station hosted by Microsoft or some affiliate,
RE: RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by user2319 on 11-05-2004 at 05:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Choli
quote:can really a virus do that? i don't think so.
Originally posted by PlusFan
1]If a virus turns off the security center+the virus scanner, people won't notice, because when the security center is turned off, it won't warn you that virus scanner is broken, and when the security center is turned off, you won't notice!! Therefore, I refer to it as "crappy".
I read that in some magazine.. And if a user can turn off the security center, than logically a virus which has gained
quote:Why not? They still are both OSes, and both are trying to be user friendlyquote:don't compare Mac to windows, because they run in different machines (apple vs x86)
Originally posted by PlusFan
If you are talking about revolutionary, you should be talking about the competition in 2005-2006. Mac OS X is already full of eye-candy, and the noob-friendly GNU/linux distributions seem to have hired some graphics artists too! (I've got this beatifull water+green grass+blue sky picture with SUSE 9.1!)
quote:What kind of Server OS have you been running, Choli?
about linux, it's "user friendlyness" is very far from windows'. In 2001 you could connect an usb pen drive and Windows xp automatically detected it and "mounted" it in an unit (asigned a drive letter). Today, 2004, I haven't seen any linux able to do that. Just an example of the user friendly.
I don't know about USB pen drives (I'll ask my dad for his when he comes home, to check), but my USB mouse works perfectly, and gets detected very fast with Knoppix (3.4-2004-05-17-EN, Knoppix is a Linux LIVE CD, which boots from a CD and doesn't need installation). Actually, Knoppix boots faster than Windows for me, even though it has to auto-detect all my hardware and load a few Gigabyte of data from a 750MB CD!quote:And you can help them to do that! (If you can code), since most linux programs are free software or open source. And, In my experience, you can do copy-paste everywhere in KDE. You do have a point, though, that some software (especially these not included with your distro) doesn't do [CTRL]+C/V
M$'s integration is much better than linux', imo. Example: everywhere in windows you can do Ctrl + C, Ctrl + V to copy-paste things. In linux... well, that depends on the program. It may be select, middle click or Ctrl+K, Ctrl+Y or Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, etc... There's no a clear unification of the way things are done. That's the point where linuxers have to improve their kernel, programs, etc...
quote:Because security holes in Linux don't immediately lead to a gigantic virus infection. And comparing the Linux kernel to Windows in amount of code isn't fair, since Windows is far more than just a kernel. Linux is the kernel, GNU/Linux is the OS.
And Windows has security holes? yes, the same as linux. But the ones of linux are less known and are constantly updated in next versions. A important thing to know is that Windows OS is way bigger than the kernel of Linux. THere are very much more lines of code in Windows. It's normal that there are bugs.
quote:But we were talking about 2006
With all this, i do not mean that windows is better. It has better things. Linux too. But for the final user, the in-home user, I'd highly recommend Windows.
You must admit that Linux is evolving very fast![..a few minutes please while I reply to Chaotic Shield]
[...thank you for waiting!]
quote:The actual problem is, I think that they can be exploted too easy, and over the internet.
Originally posted by Chaotic_Shield
Well, I've used a couple of Mac computers in my short lifetime, and they seem to hang while starting up. I was at a science competition, and we had to put together a PowerPoint presentation (PP for Mac) and one of the computers lost power. We turned it back on, and it took, no joke, 45 minutes for it to get to the login screen. While this might look like I'm saying that Mac OS is bad, you might want to keep reading. Mac OS is MUCH more secure than Windows. Windows has too many security holes for my taste.
quote:Yeah sure. Even normal security patches need rebooting, and so does most software!
I patch them up as best I can, using programs like Norton, and Spybot, and Firefox
quote:
Older versions (98, 95) sucked because you had to restart before you could use a program. Now, though, Microsoft has to focus on making their platform THE platform for everything. The main way to do this, in my opinion, is to add endless amounts of goodies that can be tapped by people installing certain programs. For example, let's say you have a graphics artist. Windows could have a feature that, when Photoshop (or a similiar program) was installed, cuold allow you to turn your desktop into a drawing studio, with dockable/hideable toolbars with the different tools. But these options wouldn't appear unless the person had Photoshop installed, because Windows would need a program that supported whatever was needed. Then, let's say you have a music mixer. What about having Windows allow access to advanced Windows Media features, such as creating an internet radio station hosted by Microsoft or some affiliate, or maybe adding features into Windows Media Player that allow the user to play around with the song as it's playing, to give him inspiration. Not only would these ideas increase product appeal, but they would also not take up much space or processing power, since they would only be activated when the required programs were installed. Of course, the feature to turn these things off would be included.
IMO, the goodies suck. MS just adds new "goodies" for every new Windows version, but they should optimize what they have right now first, and then, and only then, add new things.
edit2: I just plugged in my Dad's pen/memory stick, and SUSE 9.1 immediately detected it and asked if I wanted to mount it and open it in Konqueror (a (file)browser)
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Choli on 11-06-2004 at 12:48 AM
quote:I've already said why: The run in different architectures. You can't run Windows in an apple nor run Mac on a PC (x86) Thet's why you shouldn't compare them. It's like if you compare planes with ships. In both you can travel but one is by air and the other by sea. They're different, not better or worse. You can't compare Mac and Windows or Linux without caring in which computers they run.
Originally posted by PlusFan
Why not? They still are both OSes, and both are trying to be user friendly
About the usb discussion: well, it was just an example. Last year I had to configure an usb wireless network card. It took me 5 minutes to configure it in Win XP SP1 and 2 weeks to do the same in SuSE 7.1 and 8 and I had to recompile the kernel (2.4.20) and add several modules. What I meant with that is that Windows is better prepared to support new devices and has more connectivity than linux. You SuSE 9.1 y way more recent than XP.
Also don't care about the boot speed. It depends on way more things than the time the kernel takes to load and initialize itself. Knnopix is always a just-installed OS (it's always the same iside the cd), while windows XP is not (you install programs, etc...). In my Pentium II, a just installed Windows XP takes less than 30 seconds in boot, including the bios post (all the messages of the begining, before loading the OS).
quote:the end-user can't code. From the final user's point of view Windows is way more intuitive than Linux. Also, even if I'm a professional at computing (i am, btw) I want a system (OS + apps) that works. I don't want to do extra work configuring/fixing things/programs.
Originally posted by PlusFan
And you can help them to do that! (If you can code), since most linux programs are free software or open source. And, In my experience, you can do copy-paste everywhere in KDE. You do have a point, though, that some software (especially these not included with your distro) doesn't do [CTRL]+C/V
quote:talking about kernels: Windows' one is much more complete, imo. It includes the GUI which allows developers to have a centralized way to access all features of the OS. Linux includes only about 100/150 APIs, no-one of them GUI related. The GUI in linux rely on the KDE/Gnome/whatever enviorment you're running and in the TCK/TL libraries etc... Personally, I don't like that structure. Also, in Linux what a process can do is more limited. It can't hook another one or a window as easy as it can be done in Win.
Originally posted by PlusFan
Because security holes in Linux don't immediately lead to a gigantic virus infection. And comparing the Linux kernel to Windows in amount of code isn't fair, since Windows is far more than just a kernel. Linux is the kernel, GNU/Linux is the OS.
quote:True, but not fast enough. IMO, Linux developers should focus now in the end user. Unify thing and make a really user-friendly OS They have still to "hide" the config files. An image is better than 1000 words. Dialogs, panels, windows, etc... should be done to configure things. They have to hide the technical features of Linux. An in-home user doesn't care about what /dev/hda2 is and what mounting something on somewhere is.
Originally posted by PlusFan
You must admit that Linux is evolving very fast!
quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
[..a few minutes please while I reply to Chaotic Shield]
[...thank you for waiting!]
RE: RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by user2319 on 11-06-2004 at 10:15 AM
quote:So what if I travel both by train, car, airplane, boat, spaceshuttle, etc, and then find that IMHO one is better than another?
Originally posted by Choli
quote:I've already said why: The run in different architectures. You can't run Windows in an apple nor run Mac on a PC (x86) Thet's why you shouldn't compare them. It's like if you compare planes with ships. In both you can travel but one is by air and the other by sea. They're different, not better or worse. You can't compare Mac and Windows or Linux without caring in which computers they run.
Originally posted by PlusFan
Why not? They still are both OSes, and both are trying to be user friendly
quote:Well, you don't want to know how much problems my dad's experienced with usb wireless network cards, and he's running Windows. And it's not because he's too far away (signal strength is okay) but because of the software! Note for Choli: the new SUSE 9.2 focuses on WLAN and Bluetooth!
About the usb discussion: well, it was just an example. Last year I had to configure an usb wireless network card. It took me 5 minutes to configure it in Win XP SP1 and 2 weeks to do the same in SuSE 7.1 and 8 and I had to recompile the kernel (2.4.20) and add several modules. What I meant with that is that Windows is better prepared to support new devices and has more connectivity than linux. You SuSE 9.1 y way more recent than XP.
quote:Even after a fresh installation, winXP takes more time for me.
Also don't care about the boot speed. It depends on way more things than the time the kernel takes to load and initialize itself. Knnopix is always a just-installed OS (it's always the same iside the cd), while windows XP is not (you install programs, etc...). In my Pentium II, a just installed Windows XP takes less than 30 seconds in boot, including the bios post (all the messages of the begining, before loading the OS).
quote:It's not extra work, it's choice!quote:the end-user can't code. From the final user's point of view Windows is way more intuitive than Linux. Also, even if I'm a professional at computing (i am, btw) I want a system (OS + apps) that works. I don't want to do extra work configuring/fixing things/programs.
Originally posted by PlusFan
And you can help them to do that! (If you can code), since most linux programs are free software or open source. And, In my experience, you can do copy-paste everywhere in KDE. You do have a point, though, that some software (especially these not included with your distro) doesn't do [CTRL]+C/V
If you think some feature could be better, code it!quote:You say that Linux isn't evolving fast enough. Is windows evolving fast enough? Or Mac OS? And there are actually distro's focusing only on the end-user, like LinSpire and XandrOS and Lycorisquote:talking about kernels: Windows' one is much more complete, imo. It includes the GUI which allows developers to have a centralized way to access all features of the OS. Linux includes only about 100/150 APIs, no-one of them GUI related. The GUI in linux rely on the KDE/Gnome/whatever enviorment you're running and in the TCK/TL libraries etc... Personally, I don't like that structure. Also, in Linux what a process can do is more limited. It can't hook another one or a window as easy as it can be done in Win.
Originally posted by PlusFan
Because security holes in Linux don't immediately lead to a gigantic virus infection. And comparing the Linux kernel to Windows in amount of code isn't fair, since Windows is far more than just a kernel. Linux is the kernel, GNU/Linux is the OS.quote:True, but not fast enough. IMO, Linux developers should focus now in the end user. Unify thing and make a really user-friendly OS They have still to "hide" the config files. An image is better than 1000 words. Dialogs, panels, windows, etc... should be done to configure things. They have to hide the technical features of Linux. An in-home user doesn't care about what /dev/hda2 is and what mounting something on somewhere is.
Originally posted by PlusFan
You must admit that Linux is evolving very fast!
quote:quote:
Originally posted by PlusFan
[..a few minutes please while I reply to Chaotic Shield]
[...thank you for waiting!]
Back ontopic: No, I don't think Longhorn will be spectacular. Maybe it's spectacular in being slow on your brand-new AMD/Intel [cool year 2006 name] processor with extra included [cool year 2006 marketing name], and sure, it looks very nice, but that's not worth the $200 or whatever it is for me.
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Choli on 11-06-2004 at 01:43 PM
quote:maybe the example wasn't good. In general, if you want to compare two things, you have to test them in the same scenario, with the same enviorment. You can say if a Ferrari is better than a Porche if you drive them in different roads. You have to drive them in the same road and decide. And even if you can't, of course you can say you like one more than the other but in fact what you're saying is that you like more the combination of the car and the road compared with the other car and the other road. The same for MAC in an Apple and Windows or Linux in a PC
Originally posted by PlusFan
So what if I travel both by train, car, airplane, boat, spaceshuttle, etc, and then find that IMHO one is better than another?
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Chestah on 11-07-2004 at 02:20 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Choli
quote:maybe the example wasn't good. In general, if you want to compare two things, you have to test them in the same scenario, with the same enviorment. You can say if a Ferrari is better than a Porche if you drive them in different roads. You have to drive them in the same road and decide. And even if you can't, of course you can say you like one more than the other but in fact what you're saying is that you like more the combination of the car and the road compared with the other car and the other road. The same for MAC in an Apple and Windows or Linux in a PC
Originally posted by PlusFan
So what if I travel both by train, car, airplane, boat, spaceshuttle, etc, and then find that IMHO one is better than another?
I agree Choli, comparisons can be made for anything if you want to! but is that really a fair comparison? or course not! Its basicially just the persons favorite thing out the 2 or 3 things being compared!
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by DanC on 11-07-2004 at 01:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by blade
Note: It also looks like Longhorn will be mainly for 64-bit processors
Longhorn will be for both 32bit and 64bit.
quote:
Originally posted by Stigmata
You think longhorn is impressive
wait for blackcomb
What makes you think that? There has been no information on Blackcomb, apart from fake screenshots.
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by user2319 on 11-08-2004 at 03:58 PM
So basically, you can't compare them? I think that's bullshit. The architecture doesn't matter when we're talking about "user friendly". All that matters (for most people) is just what gets the job done, and the quality of getting the job done (time, money, etc).
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Choli on 11-08-2004 at 07:58 PM
quote:That is (may be(?)) true.
Originally posted by PlusFan
The architecture doesn't matter when we're talking about "user friendly".
quote:That depends also on the hardware/architecture, so the comparision you can do there includes it and isn't limited to the OSes.
Originally posted by PlusFan
All that matters (for most people) is just what gets the job done, and the quality of getting the job done (time, money, etc).
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Chestah on 11-09-2004 at 05:48 AM
quote:lol.. i don't think this debate is going to end soon enough
Originally posted by Choli
quote:That is (may be(?)) true.
Originally posted by PlusFan
The architecture doesn't matter when we're talking about "user friendly".
quote:That depends also on the hardware/architecture, so the comparision you can do there includes it and isn't limited to the OSes.
Originally posted by PlusFan
All that matters (for most people) is just what gets the job done, and the quality of getting the job done (time, money, etc).
!Kinda getting away from the topic now with Hardware but o well
RE: RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by user2319 on 11-09-2004 at 07:37 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Choli
quote:That is (may be(?)) true.
Originally posted by PlusFan
The architecture doesn't matter when we're talking about "user friendly".
quote:That depends also on the hardware/architecture, so the comparision you can do there includes it and isn't limited to the OSes.
Originally posted by PlusFan
All that matters (for most people) is just what gets the job done, and the quality of getting the job done (time, money, etc).
Choli, what if I'd just measure a 'score' (like 19234) which symbolizes the way I can do something, in a user-friendly way, with architecture x + OS y. And I do that for 2 (arch+OS)'es. Let's say I'd get
19234 for (OS 1+arch1)and
18234 for (OS 2+arch2).
Now let's also say that I give/measure scores to/for the architecture
2234 for Arch 1 and
234 for Arch 2
as you can, arch1 scores more points. It could be because it gets the job done faster, because of a better processor or something.
(arch+os) - arch = os
19234 - 2234 = 17000 = OS1
18234 - 234 = 18000 = OS2
So in this way, we have gotten a score for OS2 & OS1 which we can compare.
Also, about your ferrari vs Porche comparisons, where you didn't test them on the same road, I agree that you can't take a conclusion "Porsche is better" from that. But you could say that the Porsche has easier ways to configure your seat, the radio, etc. since the road has no effect on them!
quote:That's why debates ar e the best
lol.. i don't think this debate is going to end soon enough
Kinda getting away from the topic now with Hardware but o well
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Choli on 11-09-2004 at 09:25 PM
quote:how can you meassure an architecture without taking into account the software running in it?
Originally posted by PlusFan
Now let's also say that I give/measure scores to/for the architecture
2234 for Arch 1 and
234 for Arch 2
quote:do you really think that when you have two things working together (not only an OS and an arch.) the whole is the sum of the parts? why not a product? or a complex relationship? That isn't so easy
Originally posted by PlusFan
(arch+os) - arch = os
19234 - 2234 = 17000 = OS1
18234 - 234 = 18000 = OS2
quote:I agree. However, the way you can configure your seat, radio, etc... is not the only thing you have to take into account when buying a car. There are some other things that you should care about them too.
Originally posted by PlusFan
But you could say that the Porsche has easier ways to configure your seat, the radio, etc. since the road has no effect on them!
The same for OSes. Maybe you can compare the GUI, and, if you don't care about other things (you're a noob user, for example), you can say: this Os is better. But if you're not a noob, you should compare more things, and IMO the GUI of an OS isn't the most important part of it. The API (what programs can do), the HAL (which hw is suported), the connectivity, the robustness, etc... are more important things, IMO.
RE: RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by user2319 on 11-10-2004 at 06:42 PM
Okay, okay, you win Never mind
quote:I agree. However, the way you can configure your seat, radio, etc... is not the only thing you have to take into account when buying a car. There are some other things that you should care about them too.
Originally posted by PlusFan
But you could say that the Porsche has easier ways to configure your seat, the radio, etc. since the road has no effect on them!
The same for OSes. Maybe you can compare the GUI, and, if you don't care about other things (you're a noob user, for example), you can say: this Os is better. But if you're not a noob, you should compare more things, and IMO the GUI of an OS isn't the most important part of it. The API (what programs can do), the HAL (which hw is suported), the connectivity, the robustness, etc... are more important things, IMO.
Of course that matters, and ofcourse you should also look at other things, but still, you could say that you think OS1 is better than OS2, because: all your hardware worked out-of-the-box with OS2, but not with OS1, that OS1's GUI is better, that OS1 is more robust, that OS2 is ... etcetera
Shall we get on-topic again?
Now, who thinks Longhorn is going to be revolutionary, and, why
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by mad_onion on 11-10-2004 at 08:07 PM
um no i dont think it can get back on topic now this thread has turned into Plus fan and choli just arguing.
i think that if you have to buy a new piece of hardware to get your software to run then they cant be compared because you have to buy a new computer to get amc osx to work.
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by user2319 on 11-10-2004 at 08:43 PM
Yes, but you have to buy new hardware for Longhorn too, with it's annoying(tm) graphical(US patent 1209581952859180) thingies (c)
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Rik on 02-09-2005 at 04:18 PM
I have here some sreen shots:
Build 4008
http://www.zolknetwork.com/contentimages/longhorn...4008/startmenu.jpg
Setup
http://www.zolknetwork.com/contentimages/longhorn...8/installation.jpg
My Documents
http://blog.bretherton.net/images/15/r_Longhorn.jpg
Windows setup
http://kuvat.feikki.net/windows_longhorn/setup.jpg
My docs
http://longhornmania.fc2web.com/Windows%20Longhor...0Shot/lh4051-8.PNG
Desktop: http://blog.macich.net/data/longhorny.jpg
Thei're really nice!!!
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Pr0xY on 02-09-2005 at 04:29 PM
I wonder if I could install longhorn on my laptop. I want it
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Rik on 02-09-2005 at 04:45 PM
lol!!!!( i think not)looooooooooool
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Jhrono on 02-09-2005 at 04:46 PM
according to this forum rules we arent allowed to speak about it...
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by matty on 02-09-2005 at 05:20 PM
quote:We can talk about it without any problems. Just as long as no links are posted to the actual beta download then its ok.
Originally posted by johny
according to this forum rules we arent allowed to speak about it
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Rik on 02-09-2005 at 06:35 PM
so we can speak of what they are preparing....right?
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Jhrono on 02-09-2005 at 06:42 PM
that you can...it's no secret...
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
I wonder if I could install longhorn on my laptop. I want it
Proxy, i may say there are some sites wich i don't know the url, where you can obtain it...add me to msn if you want me to think better if i remember them...
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by DJeX on 02-09-2005 at 06:45 PM
Eh I've tried the betas and I think Longhorn is a pain in the butt. There’s too much GUI and it's almost totally different from any other Microsoft operating system. You need special drivers to install in it that work with Longhorn. I hope they fix it up before they release it.
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by spastje on 02-09-2005 at 07:47 PM
for the moment it sucks. it crashed all the time. and you can't install drivers, ...
if you try something you can format your c drive
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by mad_onion on 02-09-2005 at 08:44 PM
um i dont think we should be discussing it in terms of "oh drivers dont work with it" because obviously they will when it is released. i think it works surprisingly well for an alpha opereting system (yes, it is alpha not beta. the first beta is out in march i think or may. i will check later)
we can even discuss using Longhorn as it is possible to get it from the MSDN source although many people chose not to....
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by ayjay on 02-09-2005 at 09:22 PM
http://blog.macich.net/data/longhorny.jpg 
By the look of it, it seems like it is going to be a fairly big jump. Mostly visually, although if all this integration with each other is true then this is just going to start becoming annoying. Even small things now, such as internet explorer being so tightly-packed into it really get annoying. I realise that Microsoft don't want you to use software from other companies, but it is beginning to become too much like you are being told how to use your own computer.
I agree with Cookie's post somewhere (can't be bothered to find it to quote ) that things are becoming almost too easy for new users. Spending most of my time on the msgplus irc channel, you get people coming in who have to be told step by step what to do. If something goes wrong with their computer, many people now won't use common sense or even trial and error () to see what could be wrong. If something isn't spelled out for them then they are lost.
Anywho, time to go now.
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Jhrono on 02-09-2005 at 09:30 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ajd
http://blog.macich.net/data/longhorny.jpg
that screen shot is fake...i've seen it at a beta testers house...only if that is a special theme...
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by ayjay on 02-09-2005 at 09:37 PM
So? It still looks able
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Plik on 02-09-2005 at 09:43 PM
quote:No doesnt it looks cramped and ugly, it also doesnt look like anything that microsoft would make
Originally posted by ajd
So? It still looks
I dont really like the look of longhorn it looks too gui baised. Anyway insnt it delayied till 2007 or somthing and microsoft might release an XP 2 in the mean time
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Jhrono on 02-09-2005 at 09:51 PM
I think it had several delays but i think the final release date is for first 3 months of 2006...
quote:Hmm...nahhh
Originally posted by madman66
XP 2
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Plik on 02-09-2005 at 10:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by johny
quote:Hmm...nahhh
Originally posted by madman66
XP 2
quote:I also read some where that these features could come as a SP3 or as an update as XP 2.
Originally posted by PC Format
Some of its major featurs are beeing downgraded to work on Win XP
Also theres microsofts OS codenames.
They were supposed to go
quote:
Whistler (Now XP), Blackcomb, Longhorn
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by rix on 02-10-2005 at 08:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Neowin.net
At this year's VS Live and Windows Anywhere event, Microsoft showed of new technology it plans to launch with Longhorn for laptops and PCs, Techworld reports.
The company plans to offer a system based around the SPOT technology used in Microsoft's line of watches. Users will be able to see mobile phone style displays on the top of laptops containing various pieces of information; Microsoft foresee the screens showing the time, appointment and email information as well as common information like the laptop's status. At a demo during the event, Microsoft showed off a demo with calendar, contacts, tasks, inbox and media player working.
Microsoft will be pushing the technology to laptop makers to coincide with Longhorn, expected to be launched in 2006.
Sriram Viji, a program manager at Microsoft told Techworld that the technology would be similar to mobile phones and would be powered off the laptop's battery. The data would be cached allowing it to function when the PC is turned off; also included is a small processor and flash memory. The hardware could be programmed to wake up the computer periodically to download and update information. Microsoft will be offering information to developers around the time of the first Longhorn beta, expected around June of this year.
The technology will be supported in all version of Longhorn, yet will have a special focus and use for laptop users. This is one of the first peripheral pieces of gear to emerge for Longhorn, and it sounds impressive; the excitement, and expectations, are building.
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by user36611 on 02-10-2005 at 09:28 PM
quote:I agree... to that the longhorny.jpg looks crappy, and by the way it issen that good to handel, have testet it on winXP (it's an theme).
Originally posted by madman66
quote:No doesnt it looks cramped and ugly, it also doesnt look like anything that microsoft would make
Originally posted by ajd
So? It still looks
I dont really like the look of longhorn it looks too gui baised. Anyway insnt it delayied till 2007 or somthing and microsoft might release an XP 2 in the mean time
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Pr0xY on 02-11-2005 at 04:15 AM
Kind of Offtopic...
Is Messenger Plus! compatible with Longhorn? and are any of the msn messenger versions compatible with it?
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Chestah on 02-11-2005 at 05:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Kind of Offtopic...
Is Messenger Plus! compatible with Longhorn? and are any of the msn messenger versions compatible with it?
Wouldn't msn messenger or windows messenger be coupled within the operating system as windows messenger is in xp? I'm not sure about messenger plus tho!
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Ahmad on 02-11-2005 at 05:10 AM
last i checked - windows messenger 6 was integrated into longhorn
RE: Windows Codename Longhorn - Really revolutionary? by Pyroteq on 02-11-2005 at 12:46 PM
I say it looks like an XP 2 but we will have to wait and see. Then again, ill suggest somthing different.. The downfall of windows..? its going to happen one day. So ill just be different and suggest longhorn is it. Personally i probly wont buy it till i have to (I only just got XP) Because i want the new file system.