Virtual Machines. - Printable Version
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Virtual Machines. by Mike on 01-16-2005 at 04:30 PM
Hello.
I want to install a Virtual Machine to my computer.
These are my computer specs:
Intel Pentium III
1066 MHz (1.6 GHz)
Windows XP
248 MB of RAM
175 MB of free harddisk space (I can free about 1 GB if needed)
So anyway I searched google and I found this article: Virtual machine shootout: VMware vs. Virtual PC
It describes about the two most famous virtual machine programs: VMWare and Microsoft Virtual PC.
So I was wondering:
Which Virtual Machine is best for me? Probably Microsoft's one because I dont want to install Linux on it. But there would be a problem using Microsoft's one. My mouse is a USB mouse, but since I will install it on a laptop, there is that pad that you put your finger on and you move your mouse.
How do I install a windows version on a virtual machine? Do I need the CD of the windows version I want to install? Are the windows versions included in the program?
Could my pc be in danger using virtual machines? I mean, formatting HDDs to install a windows version etc...
So what do you think?
Thank you for reading. 
RE: Virtual Machines. by Choli on 01-16-2005 at 05:24 PM
quote:That depends a lot in what you want to do with it. I haven't tested the latest versions of VirtualPC, but I think that VMWare offers more features than VPC. IMO, VMWare is better, I like it more. It offers a lot of ways to add networking to the guest OS (the one that runs inside the virtual machine) and it has a lot of interesting things.
Originally posted by Mike2
Which Virtual Machine is best for me?
quote:why? I'm not sure if you can or can't install Linux inside VirtualPC (i don't remember), but the fact that it's from M$ (who bought it, didn't develop) doesn't mean it won't support linux.
Originally posted by Mike2
Probably Microsoft's one because I dont want to install Linux on it
quote:I don't get you. Why would be a problem? What has to do an usb mouse and the pad, working together, with installing a virtual machine?
Originally posted by Mike2
But there would be a problem using Microsoft's one. My mouse is a USB mouse, but since I will install it on a laptop, there is that pad that you put your finger on and you move your mouse.
quote:I have more experiance with VMWare so I this goes for VMWare. However, for VirtualPC the things are quite similar. There are several options when installing an OS into a virtual machine. The easier and safer one is this: In VMWare you create a new virtual machine. It has a wizard for that. You have to tell the specifications of what you want VMWare to emulate: amount of RAM, number of CDROMs, etc... and one option is what to use as hard disk for the guest OS. You have to choose you want to create a file that will contain the hard disk of the emulated OS.
Originally posted by Mike2
How do I install a windows version on a virtual machine? Do I need the CD of the windows version I want to install? Are the windows versions included in the program?
VMWare will create that file and will expand it as necesary; up to the size you've specified in the configuration. The programs that run inside the virtual machine will see a hard disk of the maximun size, while the file would be a bit larger than the space filled in the virtual hard disk. Once you have that, you power on the virtual machine. Because the hard disk is empty at the begining, nothing will boot and you'll get an error. You have to boot it putting the Windows installation CD into your drive (that you should have configured in the virtual machine). then when you boot, it'll boot using the CD (if not, enter the bios of the virtual machine and set it as needed) and you'll be able to install windows (or linux or whatever). In short: you'll be doing the same as if you were in front a new PC, but all that inside the virtual machine.
Having 175 MB of free hard disk space is nothing. Yo'll have to free some space, because, as i said, the file that contains the hadr disk for the installation of the virtual OS will grow.
The other way, is telling VMWare you want to use a partition of the hard disk as the disk for the virtual OS. All is the same, except for the fact that you'll be installing the OS in that partition. Use this with care, because with this you can f*** things up (the first times, use the file in your disk, instead of the partition). This has an advantage: if you do things well, you'll be able to boot that just-installed-in-VMWare OS directly from your real BIOS (ie: you can be running windows XP, install linux from inside VMware and that reboot windows and start linux.).
Virtual machine (vmware, virtualpc, etc..) come with no OS. You'll have to install one (and yoou'll need its cds) in order to start working. However, you can download (i think it isn't free) a pre-installed copy of several versions of windows that will run with VMware (more info in its site). I have never tested this, but i think it doesn't worth it. imo it's much better to install you yourself the version of windows/linux/etc... you want with the options you like mire, your own configuration, programs, etc....
quote:If you use the file method, don't worry. Nothing strange will happen. If you decide you want to use a partition for the installed OS, just be careful and know what you're doing.
Originally posted by Mike2
Could my pc be in danger using virtual machines? I mean, formatting HDDs to install a windows version etc...
In both cases, never run a virtual machine from inside another This is highly unrecommended.
quote:1066 MHz = 1.066 GHz
Originally posted by Mike2
1066 MHz (1.6 GHz)
1.6 GHZ = 1600 MHz
quote:all that
Originally posted by Mike2
So what do you think?
what OS are you planing to install?
what do you want the virtual machine for?
quote:
Originally posted by Mike2
Thank you for reading.
RE: Virtual Machines. by segosa on 01-16-2005 at 05:46 PM
I have to use Virtual PC because VMWare BSODs when I install it.
If you can use VMWare, use it. Don't assume Microsoft's is bad though, it still does its job and I'm perfectly happy with it.
One thing I've found is that Microsoft make good apps that they need/want to use themselves (Virtual PC, compilers, etc..).
RE: Virtual Machines. by Mike on 01-16-2005 at 06:00 PM
quote:Well, on the article I posted above, it says that it Microsoft's virtual machine program doesnt support linux...
Originally posted by Choli
why? I'm not sure if you can or can't install Linux inside VirtualPC (i don't remember), but the fact that it's from M$ (who bought it, didn't develop) doesn't mean it won't support linux.
quote:Well on the article I posted above, it says that the Microsoft virtual machine does not support usb devices that your real computer has plugged in. So my mouse would not work I guess...
Originally posted by Choli
I don't get you. Why would be a problem? What has to do an usb mouse and the pad, working together, with installing a virtual machine?
quote:So if I understood right, VMWare, will create only one file that will ask me where to put it. This file will contain everything the HDD on my virtual machine will have. (OS and software I installed?)
Originally posted by Choli
I have more experiance with VMWare so I this goes for VMWare. However, for VirtualPC the things are quite similar. There are several options when installing an OS into a virtual machine. The easier and safer one is this: In VMWare you create a new virtual machine. It has a wizard for that. You have to tell the specifications of what you want VMWare to emulate: amount of RAM, number of CDROMs, etc... and one option is what to use as hard disk for the guest OS. You have to choose you want to create a file that will contain the hard disk of the emulated OS.
VMWare will create that file and will expand it as necesary; up to the size you've specified in the configuration. The programs that run inside the virtual machine will see a hard disk of the maximun size, while the file would be a bit larger than the space filled in the virtual hard disk. Once you have that, you power on the virtual machine. Because the hard disk is empty at the begining, nothing will boot and you'll get an error. You have to boot it putting the Windows installation CD into your drive (that you should have configured in the virtual machine). then when you boot, it'll boot using the CD (if not, enter the bios of the virtual machine and set it as needed) and you'll be able to install windows (or linux or whatever). In short: you'll be doing the same as if you were in front a new PC, but all that inside the virtual machine.
quote:Can I use a folder that I will share in lan?
Originally posted by Choli
Having 175 MB of free hard disk space is nothing. Yo'll have to free some space, because, as i said, the file that contains the hadr disk for the installation of the virtual OS will grow.
Our other computer has about 20 GB free but I cant install a virtual machine in it because : Intel Pentium II 233 MHz
quote:So, if I use this method, VMWare will install the OS and other software without using a file?
Originally posted by Choli
The other way, is telling VMWare you want to use a partition of the hard disk as the disk for the virtual OS. All is the same, except for the fact that you'll be installing the OS in that partition. Use this with care, because with this you can f*** things up (the first times, use the file in your disk, instead of the partition). This has an advantage: if you do things well, you'll be able to boot that just-installed-in-VMWare OS directly from your real BIOS (ie: you can be running windows XP, install linux from inside VMware and that reboot windows and start linux.).
quote:So no worrys if I use the file method on a network HDD eh?
Originally posted by Choli
If you use the file method, don't worry. Nothing strange will happen. If you decide you want to use a partition for the installed OS, just be careful and know what you're doing.
quote:Sounds fun, should do it!
Originally posted by Choli
In both cases, never run a virtual machine from inside another This is highly unrecommended.
j/k
quote:It seems that I messed it up!
Originally posted by Choli
1066 MHz = 1.066 GHz
1.6 GHZ = 1600 MHz
quote:Im thinking about installing windows XP and/or windows 98 if I find the windows 98 disc
Originally posted by Choli
what OS are you planing to install?
Oh and Windows 1.0
quote:Well, I dont know...
Originally posted by Choli
what do you want the virtual machine for?
Maybe various programs to check compatibility, actually I havent decided...
quote:
Originally posted by Choli
![[Image: banana_flip.gif]](http://shoutbox.menthix.net/images/smilies/banana_flip.gif)
Segosa: Is windows installing in Virtual PC like Choli described it?
Thank you all!
RE: Virtual Machines. by segosa on 01-16-2005 at 06:14 PM
"So if I understood right, VMWare, will create only one file that will ask me where to put it. This file will contain everything the HDD on my virtual machine will have. (OS and software I installed?)"
Exactly.
And yes, you install Operating Systems on VMware the same way as on Virtual PC.
If you want, get on IRC and I'll answer any small questions you may still have.
RE: Virtual Machines. by saralk on 01-16-2005 at 06:18 PM
could i run Knoppix through WMware?
RE: Virtual Machines. by segosa on 01-16-2005 at 06:36 PM
Yes.
RE: Virtual Machines. by leito on 01-16-2005 at 07:08 PM
What version of WMWare would you recommend, for installing Linux, on a Windows XP PC?
RE: Virtual Machines. by Choli on 01-16-2005 at 07:15 PM
quote:anyway, try it
Originally posted by Mike2
Well, on the article I posted above, it says that it Microsoft's virtual machine program doesnt support linux...
quote:maybe those usb devices are cameras, printers and so, but maybe mice do work. I dunno.
Originally posted by Mike2
Well on the article I posted above, it says that the Microsoft virtual machine does not support usb devices that your real computer has plugged in. So my mouse would not work I guess...
quote:in fact, it creates a folder (where you choose) and it puts inside that folder several files, with the configuration of the virtual machine. ONe of those files is the HD.
Originally posted by Mike2
So if I understood right, VMWare, will create only one file that will ask me where to put it. This file will contain everything the HDD on my virtual machine will have. (OS and software I installed?)
quote:you can, but i won't do it. It'll run quite slower.
Originally posted by Mike2
Can I use a folder that I will share in lan?
Our other computer has about 20 GB free but I cant install a virtual machine in it because : Intel Pentium II 233 MHz
I've used VMWare 4 in Windows XP with windows 98 as guest OS in my old Pentium II @ 266, 192 MB RAM (96Mb for the guest OS) and it goes very well. You may want to try it.
quote:the same as before (the folder with files) but it won't create the big file containing the HD. Instead it'll use the partition.
Originally posted by Mike2
So, if I use this method, VMWare will install the OS and other software without using a file?
quote:slow speed, once more
Originally posted by Mike2
So no worrys if I use the file method on a network HDD eh?
be careful with that. Make tests.edit :
quote:always the last one. But it works with all.
Originally posted by leito
What version of WMWare would you recommend, for installing Linux, on a Windows XP PC?
RE: Virtual Machines. by leito on 01-16-2005 at 08:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Choli
always the last one. But it works with all.
Well, I was looking to its page, and there are many products:
Products:
* VMware ESX Server
* VMware Virtual SMP
* VMware GSX Server
* VMware Workstation
* VMware ACE
RE: Virtual Machines. by Choli on 01-16-2005 at 08:39 PM
ah!
use Workstation. The others are for more powerfull things (and may not work under XP (only in 2000 and 2003 server/advanced server/datacenter server and similar)
btw, ACE is a new product. I still don't know very much about it. try it and tell me
RE: Virtual Machines. by matty on 01-16-2005 at 09:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Mike2
Intel Pentium III
1066 MHz (1.6 GHz)
Windows XP
248 MB of RAM
175 MB of free harddisk space (I can free about 1 GB if needed)
With your specs I don't recommend using VirtualPC or VMWare.
It depends on your O/S you are planning on running tho. On my laptop I have 512mb of ram and have a hard time with VMWare as it is. Because you are running 2 O/S and you also need at least 500mb of memory for an install of Windows 98. and recommend requirement for RAM on 98 is 128 (in VMWare) so your PC is going to run REAL slow.
Edit: I forgot to add that when you create a virutal PC and specifiy the size of the drive for that virutal machine VMWare creates a file that big that is used to store the O/S and such. Default size is 2gbs (but you can change it)
RE: Virtual Machines. by Choli on 01-16-2005 at 10:58 PM
quote:why not? the only bad thing is the free space. the rest is ok for running one (or even more) virtual machines (at the same time)
Originally posted by Matty
With your specs I don't recommend using VirtualPC or VMWare
as i said: in my Pentium II 266 MHx with 192 Mb RAM, I ran MVWare with the main OS Windows XP and the guest one Windows 98 (and i assigned 96 MB RAM to it). It ran quite well.
quote:nope. The file grows as needed. (well, maybe if you do a non-quick format of the virtual drive, the file may grow all is maximun size at once).
Originally posted by Matty
VMWare creates a file that big that is used to store the O/S and such. Default size is 2gbs (but you can change it)
RE: Virtual Machines. by Mike on 01-17-2005 at 06:05 AM
Ok...
I installed VMWare workstation.
Then I clicked "Add a Virtual Machine"
I choosed Typical for install type (or how it is called).
Then, guest OS Windows XP Professional.
Then it asked me how much space to reserve about this virtual machine.
I put in 0.3 GB () because as you know, there is too little free space left.
Anyway, the virtual machine was added.
I clicked start this virtual machine, and a dos-like screen appeared.
I guess it was about the virual network cards.
And after a minute it said "Could not find Bootable cd. Please insert a copy of Windows XP Professional and restart the virtual machine to install windows." Or something like that...
Anyway, I'm probably going to install the virtual machine on the other's computer HDD with lan...
quote:What should I becaureful with?
Originally posted by Choli
slow speed, once more be careful with that. Make tests.
Formating the 20 GB HDD if i install in lan?
My computer slowing down?
By the way, is typical method the method which creates the big file?
RE: Virtual Machines. by ddunk on 01-17-2005 at 06:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mike2
And after a minute it said "Could not find Bootable cd. Please insert a copy of Windows XP Professional and restart the virtual machine to install windows." Or something like that...
Click Edit Virtual Machine Settings (or whatever it says) and manually select the drive that the disk is in instead of autodetect. (At least that's what I have to do)
RE: Virtual Machines. by Mike on 01-17-2005 at 07:31 AM
Actually, I didnt insert a bootable cd.
I was only wondering if I can intall it Windows from our laptop to our computer which has about 20 GB disk space free...
RE: Virtual Machines. by Choli on 01-17-2005 at 09:11 PM
quote:of course, it's the same error as if you have an empty hard disk and try to put it in a new computer and boot it, without any floppy disk or CD. The bios (in this case, the bios inside the virtual machine) tells you that error.
Originally posted by Mike2
And after a minute it said "Could not find Bootable cd. Please insert a copy of Windows XP Professional and restart the virtual machine to install windows." Or something like that...
quote:I meant that the virtual machine will run slower
Originally posted by Mike2
What should I becaureful with?
Formating the 20 GB HDD if i install in lan?
My computer slowing down?
Other things apply the same way quote:it depends on your needs. It is the one I most used, because I only wanted a HD of about 500 Mb to install Win98 and test my own programs. However, when I had windows 98, windows 2000 and linux installed (phisically, not in virtual machine) on the same computer, I configured 2 virtual machines to boot my (previously installed) windows 98 and linux from windows 2000.
Originally posted by Mike2
By the way, is typical method the method which creates the big file?
quote:
Originally posted by Mike2
I put in 0.3 GB ()
Windows XP in a 300 Mb HD ...
it won't install.quote:you can have put a bigger size for your virtual disk, but it won't only be albe to grow up to the maximun free space in your real HD
because as you know, there is too little free space left.
so anyway, you wouldn't have been able to install winxp quote:Mike2: do that and once you power on your virtual machine, enter the bios and make sure the first device it'll use for booting is the cd.
Originally posted by Ddunk
Click Edit Virtual Machine Settings (or whatever it says) and manually select the drive that the disk is in instead of autodetect. (At least that's what I have to do)
quote:you can install windows in a file having the virtual disk of it, and having that file in a remote computer which has to have an already installed OS and share a folder where you can place that file. You can't install windows directly into a remote computer by using vmware (nor virtualpc)
Originally posted by Mike2
I was only wondering if I can intall it Windows from our laptop to our computer which has about 20 GB disk space free...
RE: Virtual Machines. by Mike on 01-17-2005 at 09:34 PM
How can I enter the bios of my virtual machine?
I traped mt keyboard on the VM and then i pressed all the keys from F1 to F12 and Del.
Nothing happened.
This is what I see:
I couldnt find my bootable copy of win xp nor windows 98.
Only a copy of windows xp, which for some reason, doesnt boot up from it 
(Virtual machine and real machine)
Anyway, im gonna search a little more for the bootable win xp cd and I will see what I can do...
By the way, I created a boot floppy disk, from windows and booted from it in vmware
I tried to cd c:\ and cd d:\ but nothing of them worked...
By the way, the floppy in VMWare doesnt work now, because I shutdown the virtual machine while it was running...
Now when I start a virtual machine, my floppy goes crazy for a second and then it says "Floppy is being ussed by another VM or program. The floppy disk will now be disabled."
I guess that if I restart my computer, this problem will be fixed...
RE: Virtual Machines. by Choli on 01-17-2005 at 10:19 PM
quote:maybe Shift + F1 or + F2? I can't remember. It should be printed in the first messages shown by the bios of VMWare (a bit before the moment of the screen shot you posted). In the help of VMWare it should be said too.
Originally posted by Mike2
I traped mt keyboard on the VM and then i pressed all the keys from F1 to F12 and Del.
quote:because your hard disk (the virtual one) is not formatted. You'll have to format it first (and create partitions if you want) (or boot with a bootable windows installation cd and install it. It'll format it for you).
Originally posted by Mike2
By the way, I created a boot floppy disk, from windows and booted from it in vmware
I tried to cd c:\ and cd d:\ but nothing of them worked...
quote:that's a weird problem. try to restart
Originally posted by Mike2
By the way, the floppy in VMWare doesnt work now, because I shutdown the virtual machine while it was running...
Now when I start a virtual machine, my floppy goes crazy for a second and then it says "Floppy is being ussed by another VM or program. The floppy disk will now be disabled."
I guess that if I restart my computer, this problem will be fixed...
RE: Virtual Machines. by segosa on 01-18-2005 at 08:57 AM
cd C:\ isn't how you change drives, it's just C:
RE: Virtual Machines. by matty on 01-18-2005 at 09:06 AM
The easiest way to install a virtual machine is from an ISO.
Double Click the CD Rom part that is highlighed in my screenshot and you will get the next image in my other post
RE: Virtual Machines. by matty on 01-18-2005 at 09:08 AM
With this you can select ISO instead of Physical Drive then select its location. Works Wonders...
If your PCs are networked simply create the ISO of the installer CD on the other PC and point to the file when you browse for it on the other PC.
RE: Virtual Machines. by Mike on 01-18-2005 at 11:45 AM
Yeah, thank you, but I knew about the iso feature...
The problem is that I lost my bootable windows xp cd.
I found an xp disk, but it wont boot.
However, windows can see it...
By the way, speaking of Longhorn...
I have an iso of Longhorn...
Is there a danget that if I install it and then I restart the networked computer, (which I will install it to) the networked computer will boot up with longhorn instead of windows xp?
RE: Virtual Machines. by Choli on 01-18-2005 at 08:49 PM
quote:cd c:\ changes the path of the c: drive to the root folder, but doens't change the folder you're currently unless you're in the c drive; ie: example just copied-pasted:
Originally posted by Segosa
cd C:\ isn't how you change drives, it's just C:
code:
C:\Documents and Settings\Carlos>d:
D:\>cd c:\
D:\>c:
C:\>
quote:to install it in the networked pc, you'll have to burn the iso in a CD, go phisically to the networked pc, insert the cd, boot from it and install. You can't install it from VMWare.
Originally posted by Mike2
Is there a danget that if I install it and then I restart the networked computer, (which I will install it to) the networked computer will boot up with longhorn instead of windows xp?
You can, however, install longhorn, using only the iso, inside a virtual machine (with vmware, for example) but remember that you'll be installing it either in a partition of your local HD or in a file that you can access from your PC (a local one or in a remote computer, which has to have a previously installed OS (to share a folder and so))).
RE: Virtual Machines. by Mike on 01-19-2005 at 03:49 PM
Hello.
I installed windows 98 on a virtual machine
It took me more than 4 hours to install.
Anyway, after finally installing, I wanted to connect to the internet.
I configurated the network card and then it asked me to restart.
I restarted, and then I could see the networked folders from my computer and the other one.
When I opened Internet explorer a dialog appeared saying to connect to the internet with msn isp.
How can I tell it that to connect through the network card?
RE: Virtual Machines. by Choli on 01-19-2005 at 08:08 PM
quote:that's normal, (well, more than 4 hours may be a bit too much, but it tooks more than usual).
Originally posted by Mike2
It took me more than 4 hours to install.
quote:well, that depends on the way you configured the network in the virtual machine. There are several ways. You can tell VMWare to emulate an ethernet card that is connected to your real pc. In this case, you have to share your internet connection with the virtual machine.
Originally posted by Mike2
I configurated the network card and then it asked me to restart.[...]How can I tell it that to connect through the network card?
other option is doing the same, but making the virtual OS be visible to the rest of the lan where the real pc is. in this case you have to configure it as if it was a real pc in your lan.
finally, there's an option that makes the virtual machine use the same, phisical, network card installed in your pc. in this case you should configue it the same way you configure your real pc.
In the help of vmware you can find more information about this (and about the other things). It's a good help, things are quite good explained.
quote:(sorry for read your post so fast
Originally posted by Mike2
I restarted, and then I could see the networked folders from my computer and the other one.
When I opened Internet explorer a dialog appeared saying to connect to the internet with msn isp.
)well i think you've configured your card, the only problem is with IE. Go to tools > options > connections tab. There you can configure that (i think).
quote:btw, remember to install the vmware tools.
Originally posted by Mike2
I installed windows 98 on a virtual machine
RE: Virtual Machines. by Mike on 01-19-2005 at 09:00 PM
I'm posting this from the virtual machine!
I managed to connect it to the internet.
The problem was that I didnt set a dns ip.
Anyway, I might try and install the plus! sponsor here, and see whats so bad about it...
Thanks to everybody who helped!
RE: Virtual Machines. by Choli on 01-19-2005 at 09:43 PM
hehe
nice to see all goes well for you. I you have more questions, ask them 