Church of Reality. I think it's a good idea. What do you think?

Spread the sacred message - reality!

Sounds pretty cool, but more like a cult really, its interesting, but a bit disrespectful to those dedicated religions really...

I don't like churches... Or religion, at all.

The poll should have some other neutral thing, I just voted for "blah... crap" cuz the others don't fit my thoughts.

Ill just stay atheist thanks

Since it has principles to guide my life.. thanks but no thanks.

POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOST 500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YAYAYAYAYAYAYYAYYAAYAYAYAYYAYAYAAAAYAYAAYYAAYYAY

yes it is rubbish. i will stick with good old reliable atheist. i think it is the only religion where the main principle is to NOT believe something that another religion made up.
and on the subject of religion it is only a bad thing because it cause so may wars and suffering in the world it cant be good. i wish all countries were communist (without the evil dictator) so that we didnt have to deal with all this religion rubbish.

Gonna vote for blah..crap as that fits my thoughts also.

I really don't get the point. You don't need a church to live in reality do you? Or have I misunderstood?

Is this not just a template of a church without any beliefs?  It seems to me it addresses all the common concepts of sacredness, mission etc. without actually having any motive.  It's a rather elaborate way of saying that we exist.

I say Nay!
I'm not really into churchy stuff...
I like to be free.....

I can't belive that. Like traxor said its more of a cult.

Cult =

Don't want to be part of something that isn't there, surely there will always be beliefs, you can't just think about nothing, you have to believe about something somewhere, surely...

I liked the message of the movie stigmata the most.
Google it

This just seems like a cult, tbh.
I'm a Christian and I like faith, I prefer to not think of it as religion more of having faith and trying to live under grace and follow the teachings and be close to Jesus. The whole helping those who need help was one of the reasons I actually enjoy helping people out here

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Originally posted by Anubis
This just seems like a cult, tbh.
I'm a Christian and I like faith, I prefer to not think of it as religion more of having faith and trying to live under grace and follow the teachings and be close to Jesus. The whole helping those who need help was one of the reasons I actually enjoy helping people out here

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I think it's actually one of the best ideas ever Believing in what is Real, instead of some crap fiction-based religion. And atheist isn't a religion, it's just saying "I don't believe in god". You should really read some more pages of the site, instead of just reading ~2 paragraphs and the name

I suggest these pages:

the Tree of Knowledge
How the Church of Reality got started
"Does God exist?"
Original, more rude "Does God exist?"

Well it's an unbiased church which would actually make a good religon. Making an un-biased religon accepting that everyone may be right.

How can you insist that its not real, a lot of the stuff isn't just belief and made up, there is evidence that jesus was real and stuff... I've read through, but its stupid, how can you make something reality when what you are trying to prevent is apparently not real, surely trying to forget that is being unrealistic...

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Originally posted by PlusFan
I think it's actually one of the best ideas ever Believing in what is Real, instead of some crap fiction-based religion.

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Originally posted by traxor
How can you insist that its not real, a lot of the stuff isn't just belief and made up, there is evidence that jesus was real and stuff...

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I've read through, but its stupid, how can you make something reality when what you are trying to prevent is apparently not real

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, surely trying to forget that is being unrealistic...

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Prove to me that jesus didnt exist?see you can't...some things are just too big for us humans...

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lol leo very funny. i think most people will agree that jesus did exist as it seems hard to believe that the people who wrote the new testemant actually all got together to make someone up. its just the walking through walls bit that didnt happen. lets face it the bible is a work of fiction and god doesnt exist and people seem to only have religion so that they dont have to worry about what happens when they die. (if you didnt know you just decompose in the ground and thats it ..... nothing else)

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Originally posted by mad_onion
lol leo very funny. i think most people will agree that jesus did exist as it seems hard to believe that the people who wrote the new testemant actually all got together to make someone up. its just the walking through walls bit that didnt happen. lets face it the bible is a work of fiction and god doesnt exist and people seem to only have religion so that they dont have to worry about what happens when they die. (if you didnt know you just decompose in the ground and thats it ..... nothing else)

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It's not just that, Leo, it's also that the there are a lot of religious books, but it was decided that some *are* holy, and others are not. Which is just completely stupid. This page features some nice questions to Christians: http://www.churchofreality.org/opinion/christian-reality.htm

• Do you believe that the Bible is the word of God, that it has been accurately preserved through the ages, and that everything it says is true?
  
  
• There are thousands of denominations of Christians. Why do you believe that your denomination is the best one - if you believe that - and can it be improved?
  
  
• If you realized that a different denomination of Christianity were more accurate than the one you are currently a member of - would you change religions?
  
  
• Do you consider yourself to be one of the "chosen ones"?
  
  
• Do you really think that everyone else who isn't a Christian is really going to burn in Hell forever?
  
  
• Do you think that Armageddon will occur in your lifetime?

I've got a religion and with this one is just more one to the religians book......

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Also, I ask all Christians: Why doesn't God come out of hiding?

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Originally posted by PlusFan
I mean, in the bible it's very clear he can do all sorts of super-natural things.. If he would show up and do some of these super-natural things, for everyone to see, I would believe in God.

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Originally posted by thekid

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Also, I ask all Christians: Why doesn't God come out of hiding?

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Oh, He is so going to.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
I mean, in the bible it's very clear he can do all sorts of super-natural things.. If he would show up and do some of these super-natural things, for everyone to see, I would believe in God.

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And by the time He comes for the second coming, it's already too late to believe that He does exist.
So, make your choice now

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where the option to vote "wot the hell is the Church of Reality "

* toddy goes to google..........

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Originally posted by PlusFan
thekid, you don't really believe in God, do you?

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Originally posted by PlusFan
If you do, is it just because your parents do aswell,

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Originally posted by PlusFan
or because you *really* believe that crap?

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Have you read the bible?

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Because I can't imagine someone believing in God after having read the bible, unless they turned their brains off while reading.

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So, thekid, do you believe that the bible is the word of God, and that it's correct? Because there are a *lot* of translation issues with it. This is a nice article about it.

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Originally posted by PlusFan

I didn't say Jezus didn't exist.

Prove to me that aliens didnt exist?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

Prove to me that trees cant talk?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

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this is the problem i have with the bible it always seems to be "we dont have any proof that god exists, he just does" and then the only way to get people to believe in him is to say "oh by the way if you dont believe he might send jesus to kill you and you wont get into heaven. its trying to scare people. and it is the weak minded people who are fooled.
i live in the Uk and it isnt a very good country but i like it cause it has one of the lowest belief rates of any place in the world. it means i dont have to put up with so many stupid people

i think it's all based in ur education...like all my family is catholic and i was educated like that and trully believe it...maybe Plusfan had the right to choose what he wanted to follow and he developed other opinions...but i still believe in god above everything..

That's the problem, johny, you don't believe in God because you chose to, you were forced in it I was raised without this crap, and by objectively looking at a lot of religions, I decided, they're crap. So I've always been atheist. But I think this new idea of a religion based on what is real is a really good idea. So know I believe in Realism

How can you sit there and speak about religion like you're somebody who knows everything about it, I think you're offending people, this thread isn't a good idea, you've started one big argument about religion that wasn't even required, its basically advertising, the church of reality, thats not real at all, its just some stupid cult who believe in nothing, but they are believing in something.

You are trying to make people believe in what you think, its just the same as what people think already... You can't force people into decisions, they have their own beliefs, this is your belief, so what you're saying is completely stupid and judgemental...

This whole belief in what is real is pretty stupid, to me, you're coming across as one of those people in cults who do stuff like mass suicide, its just one big joke in my opinion, just leave people to believe what they believe, if they wanted to believe in this realism thing, then I'm sure religion would have been dead a while back, but no, its the way people live, leave it as that okay...

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Originally posted by PlusFan

That's the problem, johny, you don't believe in God because you chose to, you were forced in it I was raised without this crap, and by objectively looking at a lot of religions, I decided, they're crap. So I've always been atheist. But I think this new idea of a religion based on what is real is a really good idea. So know I believe in Realism

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Originally posted by traxor
How can you sit there and speak about religion like you're somebody who knows everything about it, I think you're offending people

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The Church of Reality is a religion based on the practice of Realism, believing in everything that is real. Our motto is, "If it's real, we believe in it."

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Sheep - People who let others do their thinking for them. People who are not in control of what they believe in. People who have not taken personal responsibility to question their faith. People who refuse to ask the Sacred Question - "What is Real?" To be a sheep is to follow blindly a path where reality is excluded from the process.

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Born Again - Starting over from scratch after losing everything on your computer and having no data backups. (Being Born Again is not a good thing in the Church of Reality)

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Sin - To introduce chaos or viruses into the Tree of Knowledge. To persecute explorers. To intimidate seekers of reality. To spread false and misleading information. To cause humanity to evolve in a negative direction.

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The Holy TV Show - The Holy TV show is Star Trek. Star Trek is the Holy TV show because it is a show that envisions a future where we have evolved in a positive direction towards a future that is better than the one we have today. In Star Trek we have put our race and national differences behind us and we have united together as one planet to reach out into the universe and make peaceful contact with other life forms that we find as we explore the universe. Star Trek inspires our imagination and causes us to become One with the Tree as our minds are led to contemplate the Holy Question - what will the future of the human race be?. Star Trek honors the Sacred Direction and the Principle of Positive Evolution as well as many other Sacred Principles of the Church of Reality.

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The Sacred Network - The Sacred Network is Internet. Also known as the "Golden Router" or "Sacred Router". It is the technology where we communicate - exchange idea - store our history - and make information available so that we as a race can grow together and explore reality as it really is.

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The Sacred Joke - There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary - and those who don't.

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This is the most hilarious site on the internet, its basically a mass cult of geeks, thats all I'm saying.

lol yes the religion of reality does seem strange but no stranger than Christianity. some guy up in the sky that does everytihng and can kill thousands of people in minutes if he wants to seems strange to me.
but yeah i think they should just be left alone, no one is going to change a religious persons mind. i know for a fact no one could make me believe in god because it seems silly to me.
i say again religion is only there so that people think that when they die they will go somewhere when in fact they will just rot in the ground.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
So, thekid, do you believe that the bible is the word of God, and that it's correct? Because there are a *lot* of translation issues with it. This is a nice article about it.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
That's the problem, johny, you don't believe in God because you chose to, you were forced in it I was raised without this crap, and by objectively looking at a lot of religions, I decided, they're crap. So I've always been atheist. But I think this new idea of a religion based on what is real is a really good idea. So know I believe in Realism

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Originally posted by traxor
How can you sit there and speak about religion like you're somebody who knows everything about it, I think you're offending people, this thread isn't a good idea, you've started one big argument about religion that wasn't even required, its basically advertising, the church of reality, thats not real at all, its just some stupid cult who believe in nothing, but they are believing in something.

You are trying to make people believe in what you think, its just the same as what people think already... You can't force people into decisions, they have their own beliefs, this is your belief, so what you're saying is completely stupid and judgemental...

This whole belief in what is real is pretty stupid, to me, you're coming across as one of those people in cults who do stuff like mass suicide, its just one big joke in my opinion, just leave people to believe what they believe, if they wanted to believe in this realism thing, then I'm sure religion would have been dead a while back, but no, its the way people live, leave it as that okay...

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Racism, war, torturing... those are real things as well, but do i want to "believe in it"?

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Not to offend anyone, but i would feel like this kind of "sheep" when i start to believe in some religion found on the internet.

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Since when is formatting your PC part of a religion .

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i say again religion is only there so that people think that when they die they will go somewhere when in fact they will just rot in the ground.

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Originally posted by http://diary.churchofreality.org
It's 5 years old!

It was 5 years ago that the Church of Reality was born. At first it was just a humorous idea. I registered the domain name and started building the web site. As I wrote a lot of ideas came together. At first I wasn't sure that it would ever be a "real" religion because - like most people - I had the idea that in order to be a religion that you had to believe in things that aren't real. But that's not the way it is.

Religion is a statement of your identity and your belief system and how you evaluate truth. It is about your morals and ethics and your community. How you evaluate right and wrong. To identify with a religion is to associate yourself with a belief system. In society, it identifies you in the larger culture of people who care about those sorts of things.

Religious identity is important in society. Many wars are fought over religious issues - my God is stronger than your God. People want to know what religion you identify with so they can evaluate your moral code.

But - what of those who have no religion - or - not organized religion that matches their belief system? What is their religious identity? Are they a "nothing"? And what does that say about them. To be an Athiest is not a religion. An Athiest is merely someone who does not believe in God(s). So - what of someone who believes in reality? There is not church for them - until now.

The Church of Reality goes beyond a mere title. As I wrote about the Tree of Knowledge and Intelectual Tything and created the Order of Root and wrote the Sacred Principles it became apparent that I could in fact create a religion based on reality and perform the mission of being a religion without putting limits on reality and declaring arbetrary truths that become carved in stone and hold reality back from progressing.

The belief in Reality and the Practice of Realism is as rich and full as any other religion. It is unique and it is forward looking and it requires personal responsibility. It has all the elements of every other religion and then some. And I look back and I look forward and I think that this is an important step forward and a contribution to religious choice.

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Yes, I believe that the Bible is the Word of God. We have a *lot* of "translation issues" with it, but it affects no major doctrine.

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If you read an article in the site that PlusFan gave us, you'll notice that these people somewhat believe the existence of God, but they want to see it with their own eyes.
I don't mean to offend these people, but they are weak.
If you really don't believe that God exists, say it.
A real atheist once said that even if he saw the empty tomb of his own eyes, he would never believe the existence of God.

What I comprehend from CoR's stand is that they will believe the existence of God if God shows Himself.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Actually, it *does*.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
And.. how can you be sure that the bible you're reading (the Christian) is the "good" one, and the ones the muslims and Jews read is (partly) false?

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Originally posted by PlusFan
It's like believing in aliens. There's no proof (yet?) that there are aliens. Some people know that they saw aliens, and are *absolutely* sure of it. They even take pictures of UFOs. However, I won't believe in aliens, untill I've seen proof. Which is logical. Same goes for God. There are people who believe God exists, but they have no real proof. I don't believe God exists. But if he shows up, I will admit that I was wrong and I will believe in God.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
There used to be people who were absolutely sure the world is flat. They thought that you could reach the end, and then fall off. They thought that the theory of the world being round was rubbish. So they were aworldisroundists. Should they have sticked to their "the world isn't round" beliefs? No!

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Originally posted by PlusFan
You would be a sheep if you believed it without questioning it

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Originally posted by PlusFan

It's like believing in aliens. There's no proof (yet?) that there are aliens

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Originally posted by PlusFan
I don't believe God exists. But if he shows up, I will admit that I was wrong and I will believe in God.

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@fluffy_lobster: Because they *haven't* seen God.

thekid, is there a reason for God not to show up? I mean, if he showed up, he could get everybody to worship him, and he could unite the muslims and protestants and catholics so there would be no more "holy" wars..

Do you believe in Evolution?

Because He is waiting for you
God showed up in the world 2000 years ago, and many, many, and many people rejected Him, even until now.

Don't worry about Him, He will show up someday.
I believe He appreciates people who have not seen Him and believe Him more.

"Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed" John 20:29

So how does John know God thinks about it that way? It's not like he met him

And about Jezus: I don't get it. He's "the son of God", so if he's the son of God, he must be atleast a half-god (like a greek heroos). But Christianity is monetheistic :confused: So, therefore, Jezus == God?

Anyway, I don't believe in God. I'm not going to worship someone who holds sons responsible for what their fathers did!

If Jezus == God, John 20:29 is contradicting John 1:18

And how about Job 39:13-14? All bibles have another meaning for it, so there *sure are* serious translation issues

thekid, don't you think it's weird that the Christians see Sunday as the "special" day? Because it's really Saturday that is "holy"..

And God clearly says what to do on Saturdays

There is no spoon is the answer to this

Belief is there to give those without hope something to aim for

Well thats what I believe

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Originaly Posted by: traxtor
How can you sit there and speak about religion like you're somebody who knows everything about it, I think you're offending people, this thread isn't a good idea, you've started one big argument about religion that wasn't even required, its basically advertising, the church of reality, thats not real at all, its just some stupid cult who believe in nothing, but they are believing in something.

You are trying to make people believe in what you think, its just the same as what people think already... You can't force people into decisions, they have their own beliefs, this is your belief, so what you're saying is completely stupid and judgemental...

This whole belief in what is real is pretty stupid, to me, you're coming across as one of those people in cults who do stuff like mass suicide, its just one big joke in my opinion, just leave people to believe what they believe, if they wanted to believe in this realism thing, then I'm sure religion would have been dead a while back, but no, its the way people live, leave it as that okay...

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Originally posted by PlusFan
So how does John know God thinks about it that way? It's not like he met him

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Originally posted by PlusFan
And about Jezus: I don't get it. He's "the son of God", so if he's the son of God, he must be atleast a half-god (like a greek heroos). But Christianity is monetheistic :confused: So, therefore, Jezus == God?

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Originally posted by PlusFan

Anyway, I don't believe in God. I'm not going to worship someone who holds sons responsible for what their fathers did!

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Originally posted by PlusFan
If Jezus == God, John 20:29 is contradicting John 1:18

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Originally posted by PlusFan

And how about Job 39:13-14? All bibles have another meaning for it, so there *sure are* serious translation issues

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Originally posted by PlusFan

thekid, don't you think it's weird that the Christians see Sunday as the "special" day? Because it's really Saturday that is "holy"..

And God clearly says what to do on Saturdays

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Originally posted by thekid

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Originally posted by PlusFan
So how does John know God thinks about it that way? It's not like he met him

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1. John is one of Jesus' disciples who faithfully followed Him.
    He was even mentioned that he is the closest person to Jesus.
2. When the event took place (in John 20:29), there were all Jesus' disciples.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
And about Jezus: I don't get it. He's "the son of God", so if he's the son of God, he must be atleast a half-god (like a greek heroos). But Christianity is monetheistic :confused: So, therefore, Jezus == God?

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Exactly. Jesus was God who incarnated into human.
Honestly, I'm happy when you got this conclusion.
You know there are many people who cannot get this conclusion.
A good way of thinking for a 13-year old boy .

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Originally posted by PlusFan

Anyway, I don't believe in God. I'm not going to worship someone who holds sons responsible for what their fathers did!

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Hmm...
This would be a quite long explanation, but this is the core of Christianity.
From that passage, you see that how God hates sinners.
And we all are sinners.

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Even if you only did one little mistake, you have sinned.
Because God wants a perfect score, just like you want a straight A on your report card, or you want a non-defect video game console.
You might say, "Oh, there's no way that I am sinner. I have not ever killed an ant."
But, if you know that you could help someone, but you don't help him/her, you have sinned. For example, you know your mom needs you to wash the dishes, but you don't want to do it, you have sinned.
That's why Jesus took our punishments that we should bear on the cross, and paid it full.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
If Jezus == God, John 20:29 is contradicting John 1:18

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Of course not. Jesus was in human form. You drew the conclusion before.

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Originally posted by PlusFan

And how about Job 39:13-14? All bibles have another meaning for it, so there *sure are* serious translation issues

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What about it? What do you mean that they have another meaning?

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Originally posted by New international version
13 "The wings of the ostrich flap joyfully,

    but they cannot compare with the pinions and feathers of the stork.

    14 She lays her eggs on the ground

    and lets them warm in the sand,

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Originally posted by new american standard bible

      13"The ostriches' wings flap joyously
         With the pinion and plumage of [a]love,

   
   
      14For she abandons her eggs to the earth
         And warms them in the dust,

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Originally posted by the message
13"The ostrich flaps her wings futilely--

    all those beautiful feathers, but useless!

    14She lays her eggs on the hard ground,

    leaves them there in the dirt, exposed to the weather,

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Originally posted by amplified bible
13The wings of the ostrich wave proudly, [but] are they the pinions and plumage of love?

    14The ostrich leaves her eggs on the ground and warms them in the dust,

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Originally posted by new living translation
13"The ostrich flaps her wings grandly, but they are no match for the feathers of the stork. 14She lays her eggs on top of the earth, letting them be warmed in the dust.

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Originally posted by PlusFan

thekid, don't you think it's weird that the Christians see Sunday as the "special" day? Because it's really Saturday that is "holy"..

And God clearly says what to do on Saturdays

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No, not at all.
Sabbath, if it is translated litterally from Hebrew, means Saturday. Jews and Some Christian observe Sabbath on Saturday while most of them observe it on Sunday as a commemoration of the resurrection of Jesus.
Churches usually have both services on Saturdays and Sundays.

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I only had to read the first 7 posts before I was thinking "is this kid for real?"

First off, that site looks like it was made by some high school kid that just started learning HTML. 

Second, if your saying all you believe in is whats real, then what did you mean by this?

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Prove to me that aliens didnt exist?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

Prove to me that trees cant talk?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

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Pr0xy, what did I tell you, seriously...

Plus! Fan, all I have to say is:

Think outside the box .

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Originally posted by traxor
Think outside the box .

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He sounds to me like the guy on the chat station of Grand Theft Auto: III when there is a guy saying stuff like:

"theres a march, people need a voice, everybodies going to be there"...

but in the end, you never find out what the hell he's talking about, but people go anyway, its just curiosity...

what did curiosity kill?

So they don't actually beleive in anything? If they beleive in reality, they just beleive in what can be proven. Its basically the same as choosing not to beleive in religion.

Anyhow, I do beleive this thread should be closed. Religion is a very contrevertial topic and nobody's mind will be changed by arguing.

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Originally posted by NoName
Anyhow, I do beleive this thread should be closed. Religion is a very contrevertial topic and nobody's mind will be changed by arguing.

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Originally posted by Leo
To me, Christianity is a very contradicting thing. And Christians... First they go on about love and being nice to everyone, and then they are against gays, condoms (I mean, we're in 2005! there's AIDS that can be prevented by using condoms!), abort, etc, etc.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
I meant that the book was written in ~110 AD

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Well, they can't get to that conclusion, because it contradicts with John 20:17. Jezus says he's going back to his father, who is God. So Jezus can't be God.. It's all weird with Christianity being monotheistic (the angels are sort of like super-natural to, just like Satan)

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Originally posted by PlusFan
I wasn't talking about sin, but about sons paying the price for their fathers sin, which sounds ridiculous to me, but not to God. Therefore, I don't like God.

Something nice I once read at some atheists' site, was that Jezus' sacrifice isn't really much of a sacrifice. When he died, he went back to heaven. And heaven == , so for Jezus, dieing wasn't so bad. Now consider an atheist giving his life for someone else. Wouldn't that be a greater offer? The atheist goes to hell to burn forever, because he doesn't believe. Jezus can get back to living in the clouds.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
You just said, Jezus == God. So by seeing Jezus, you see God, since they're one and the same person according to you.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
From the list, select another bible. Alot of the texts are different.

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Originally posted by PlusFan

Yes, but my father, when he was a kid, had to go to school at Saturdays. Since ~90% of the Dutch population (just a guess, I have no stats) was Christian back then, they were doing something wrong by going to school at Saturdays

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Originally posted by NoName
Religion is a very contrevertial topic and nobody's mind will be changed by arguing.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
So he hates us all? Then why doesn't he destroy the world

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
I only had to read the first 7 posts before I was thinking "is this kid for real?"

First off, that site looks like it was made by some high school kid that just started learning HTML. 

Second, if your saying all you believe in is whats real, then what did you mean by this?

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Prove to me that aliens didnt exist?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

Prove to me that trees cant talk?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

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Prove to me that jesus didnt exist?see you can't...some things are just too big for us humans...

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I like the part "...some things are just too big for us humans..."

See, if you believe that, and its a part of this religion (cult), it totally contridicts itself.  This religion "The Church Of Reality" is saying, if its not real, you dont beleive in it.  So if you cant see it, smell it, or taste it, its not real.  This religion "believing what is real", means only believing in what you see, that we as humans should 100% understand what we see and know its true. That is the total Oppisate of having things in this world that are too big for us as humans.  Now either YOU dont know what your talkign about(maybe cause your 13 and I highly doubt you even have rational and logical thinking skills), or this religion is made up (prob by some LSD user(just like the guy who started the Jahova Witnesses))

Before I go on, I want to read what you have to say about that. 

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Originally posted by NoName
So they don't actually beleive in anything? If they beleive in reality, they just beleive in what can be proven. Its basically the same as choosing not to beleive in religion.

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No, it's not. If you don't believe in religion, that doesn't mean you believe in reality

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Originally posted by thekid

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Originally posted by PlusFan
I meant that the book was written in ~110 AD

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It was written in 80-95 AD. So the write, John, who was Jesus' disciple, was still alive. And the last book in Bible written in 96.

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Even if it was written in 80-95AD, then John would be 70-115 assuming John was 20-30 in 30AD (I don't think Jesus was walking around  with some 5-year old kids). The memory of a 70-115-year-old is very bad. How can you trust that he didn't "forget" something or that he added something which is wrong?

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Well, they can't get to that conclusion, because it contradicts with John 20:17. Jezus says he's going back to his father, who is God. So Jezus can't be God.. It's all weird with Christianity being monotheistic (the angels are sort of like super-natural to, just like Satan)

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Mind if I add the same "fact" like the passage you gave and even it is more "powerful" to show that Jesus is not God?
Take a look at John 14:28.
Whoa, Jesus even said, "the Father is greater than I."

In His humanity, Jesus had made Himself temporarily "lower than the angels" (Hebrew 2:9). In the state of humiliation, He could speak of the Father being greater than He. He said that when He was in human form.

Satan was an angel, a fallen angel to be exact, named Lucifer. Actually, he was also an archangel, the highest order among all angels, along with Michael and Gabriel.

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If a serial murder saved you from bullets, were you gonna worship him?

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All of us are sinners.

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Wow, you did your homework, didn't you?
You don't need to give a certain verse, because almost all words are different depending on the versions.

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Btw, it's "Jesus," not "Jezus."
You should value other's name by writing it correctly because you have known which one is the right one.

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He did it once (destroying all things), but He promised He would never do that again.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Even if it was written in 80-95AD, then John would be 70-115 assuming John was 20-30 in 30AD (I don't think Jesus was walking around  with some 5-year old kids). The memory of a 70-115-year-old is very bad. How can you trust that he didn't "forget" something or that he added something which is wrong?

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Originally posted by PlusFan
So you're saying that Jesus was God, but he somehow took away his power so that he was lower than an angel? O_o Then he wouldn't be going back to the father, but then he would become the father again. To me it sounds llike Jesus wasn't the "son of God", or he denied he was on purpose.. but why would he do that?

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Originally posted by PlusFan
No, but I was talking about Jesus. Jesus was on Earth. But everyone knows that heaven is nicer than earth. Right? So if you were on earth, you'd prefer to be in heaven.. right? So when Jesus went to heaven, that was a good thing for him, because heaven is nice. Jesus knew he was going to heaven. So dying wasn't such a bad thing for him. Do you agree?

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Originally posted by PlusFan

Therefore, I don't see why it's so heroic of him to die "for our sins". Someone who would go to hell, and knew it, would prefer to stay on earth.

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Then what's the purpose? We are going to burn in hell anyway

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Originally posted by PlusFan
So how do you know which one is "correct" and "the word of god"?

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Sorry, in Dutch it's with a "z"

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Originally posted by PlusFan
And why would he keep his promise? Noone is regulating him

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Random thought of the day: I think we're all free to believe in whatever we want to believe.

PlusFan, I saw in your posts you had alot of questions about how Jesus could be God, and the Holy Spirit. If you are truly interested in how that is possible, read the NIV Bible. 

Erm, I talking about church and Jesus gives me a Vibe...

today my class had some argument over constantine and god . well i only have to tell you this, if you say that you are a (---------)(fill in religion), you have to understand it deeply. for example, to be a christian (just a example, this applies to all religions), you have to understand the bible, not just read through. and you need to understand it wholely. it's no use just knowing half your religion, you might as well believe in non.
i believe in no religion, just to let you know

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Originally posted by FrozernFire
you need to understand it wholely. it's no use just knowing half your religion, you might as well believe in non.

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