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Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? - Printable Version

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Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by DeltaBlast on 02-13-2005 at 02:27 PM

I'm sure I'll appear on people's deathlist now I made a topic with that title, but hear me out :)

I just read the news item "Messenger Plus! 3.50 is on its way with a big surprise! " and when I was done reading, I decided to create this topic.


My first point: "The one and only exception is the removal of the "hide banner" option (MSN Messenger 7 only)"

Did Microsoft sue you or something? I mean, why the hell would you want to remove that option. That option was the sole reason for me and all of my friends to install plus. The other features were nice, but that one was the most important of all.


My second point: Those new features... custom emotion sounds? wtf? I do not want little brats to annoy me with stupid sounds all the time. I'm sure it's disableable, but why would you even waste time programming something like that in? I (and many many MANY people with me) would rather see something useful, like an improved file transfer system with resume support (I know it's probably not possible to change msn's current file system, but it IS possible to create a new kind of transfer system, like you would have the option to choose between the original system for transferring to non-plus users, but use the plus, actually working, file transfer system to transmit to other plus users).

So what I'm saying, that in my opinion with the arrival of 3.5, plus wil only become LESS useful, as the number one future is taken out, and pointless, even annoying features are added.

That's my opinion and I'll probably get flamed to death, but I think the opposition should be heard as well, instead of only worship posts ;)

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by spokes on 02-13-2005 at 02:32 PM

i think you have to press a play sound button before it plays it, so people won't be able to annoy yo too easily ;)

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by user27089 on 02-13-2005 at 02:33 PM

The hide ad banner was removed because patchou felt msn could use the money by the sponsors or whatever. You can use Stuffplug to get rid of the ad banner now...

Custom emotion sounds are for the enjoyment of people, come on, msn wouldn't be fun without features like this, plus, like you said,  you can disable the sounds, and there are more useful features in messenger plus!, i can assure you of this, its not getting less useful, its getting more useful and at the same time, more fun. You can download the plugin 'File Transfer plus' from The Messenger Plus! Plugins Database, its basically a better transfer plugin.

You may be flamed, but as you said, its your opinion, and everybody has the right to an opinion.

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by toddy on 02-13-2005 at 02:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
My first point: "The one and only exception is the removal of the "hide banner" option (MSN Messenger 7 only)"

Did Microsoft sue you or something? I mean, why the hell would you want to remove that option. That option was the sole reason for me and all of my friends to install plus. The other features were nice, but that one was the most important of all.
as he has posted, he has chosen to  remove this feaure becuase msn need the adds to make money. If they didn't get the money then it would end up with messenger been a paid for service. Don't forget that it is a free service, so you can't complain about a few ads

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
My second point: Those new features... custom emotion sounds? wtf? I do not want little brats to annoy me with stupid sounds all the time. I'm sure it's disableable, but why would you even waste time programming something like that in? I
because most people go on msn to talk to friends and have a laugh with them, so many many people with love this feature !!

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
would rather see something useful, like an improved file transfer system with resume support (I know it's probably not possible to change msn's current file system, but it IS possible to create a new kind of transfer system, like you would have the option to choose between the original system for transferring to non-plus users, but use the plus, actually working, file transfer system to transmit to other plus users).
not many users would need such a feature, yes it maybe nice to have a feature like that, but patchou can't do 10 things at once and from going on his stats (which are send automacially) he has found out then lots of people use the current sounds, she he has chosen to improve that.

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
So what I'm saying, that in my opinion with the arrival of 3.5, plus wil only become LESS useful, as the number one future is taken out, and pointless, even annoying features are added.
well patchou can only go on his stats, and as i've said lots of people like the sound feature

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
That's my opinion and I'll probably get flamed to death
no you won't (well u shouldn't be), everyones allowed there opinion
quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
but I think the opposition should be heard as well, instead of only worship posts
this my post fits that, its not a workship post :P

quote:
Originally posted by spokes
i think you have to press a play sound button before it plays it, so people won't be able to annoy yo too easily ;)

no it does it antomacially, but u can change that
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by DeltaBlast on 02-13-2005 at 02:47 PM

Seriously, microsoft needs more money? Don't make me laugh. And as for them making msn a paid service; they will never ever do that. People will just flock to a different IM program. Just look at the history of other things that went that way, like Napster for example.

So I absolutely don't agree with that part :p

for the sound; even if I disable it, people will still try to send such sounds, and then become angry at me because I have disabled it. (that's how it works... just look at SMS; modern day girlfriends will get upset if you don't SMS them often enough. Just one of many things enforced upon you by society :))

For file transfers: I think more people would want such a feature than sounds. But stats cannot see that, because it isn't part of plus.

On the subject of stats, how were they generated? Automatically, or did the user have the option to disable it? If disableable, I'd say that the stats aren't that objective, as it are the more advanced users that disable it, and they like other things than kiddies with sounds ;)
But that's just speculation ;)

edit: I also just installed the file transfer plugin.. now I'll have to convince others to do the same so I can actually use it :p

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by toddy on 02-13-2005 at 02:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
Seriously, microsoft needs more money? Don't make me laugh. And as for them making msn a paid service; they will never ever do that. People will just flock to a different IM program. Just look at the history of other things that went that way, like Napster for example.

so just because its microsoft you expect them to do it for free, coz "they already have enough money" (thats bascially wot your thinkin), microsoft is a business like any other business, they aim is to make money, not lose money. so you can't expect them to provide messenger for nothing with out them having a way of makin money.

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
for the sound; even if I disable it, people will still try to send such sounds, and then become angry at me because I have disabled it
if they are your friends, then they will understand
quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
For file transfers: I think more people would want such a feature than sounds.
well i totally disagree, and i think many members would agree with
me. more advanced users would probably like something like this rather then sounds, but there will be alot less advanced users. so a ver large percentage of the users will love the new feature
quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
as it are the more advanced users that disable it,
not true at all, the more advanced users will know how much the stats are need to inporve the program !! and i guess that very very few people have the stats turned off

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Jeronimo on 02-13-2005 at 02:59 PM

I think that Patchou has his reasons for removing the 'Hide the ad banner' feature. Microsoft do include ads for a reason, to help pay for the free service they provide. Regardless of whether Microsoft do or do not require more money is immaterial. So Patchou has decided to be kind to Microsoft and leave out the hide ad feature in the upcoming version. As previously mentioned, you can use StuffPlug 2.0 to hide the ads.

One of the goals of Plus has been to never touch the Messenger Protocol. I am not sure how including a file transfer manager might alter this goal. If you already have Plus, check out File Transfer Plus which is excellent for file transfers over MSN. Its only flaw is that not everybody has it installed. So spread the word!

Patchou has suggested that more advanced users might not find the sounds that useful, but I think they will be great for everyone. Remember there are probably not that many uber-l33t people using Plus and it should cater for everyone.

There are still plenty of other features in Plus that are really useful. Remember, Patchou hasn't reported the full list of changes in 3.50 so there are still some surprises in store for us all :)

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Menthix on 02-13-2005 at 03:08 PM

DeltaBlast, i'll explain you:

Patchou doesn't have a "regular job", all money he earns is from freelance programming. Probally 95% of all his cash comes from the Messenger Plus! sponsor. Patchou would never be able to do this if MSN didn't exsist.

Microsoft sure does earn money in a lot of ways, but when you only look at MSN Messenger, Microsoft probally gets something like 95% of their MSN earnings trough the advertising in ther program.

Now why would it be fair for Patchou to remove advertising in Messenger and replace that whith his sponsor? That way Patchou will earn a living while he is destroying MSN Messeger, and after all... Plus! can't exsist without MSN Messenger.


There are thousands of other ways to get rid of the ads, Plus! really isn't unique in this. On the other hand custom sounds is something really unique. I am a beta tester and can tell you it's something never seen before in any kind of IM program. I know sound features  are not that l33t... but Patchou created this feature in the first place becausae his statistics show that Sound Emotions is the number one used feature in his program, so sure there will be alot of people liking it.

Also, custom sound is not the only new thing in 3.50. I think everybody will find something nice when it comes out :).

RE: RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by DeltaBlast on 02-13-2005 at 03:13 PM

quote:
Originally posted by toddy
so just because its microsoft you expect them to do it for free, coz "they already have enough money" (thats bascially wot your thinkin), microsoft is a business like any other business, they aim is to make money, not lose money. so you can't expect them to provide messenger for nothing with out them having a way of makin money.
>>>Actually, it's like handing out samples; you lose money by doing so, but you drag people into the MS world. Microsoft would rather have you use their program for free than someone else's program. The money for the ads is just extra :)

if they are your friends, then they will understand
>>> but how about potential friends? :p MSN is also used for meeting people you don't know yet, and stuff like this could lead to a bad start :p

well i totally disagree, and i think many members would agree with
me. more advanced users would probably like something like this rather then sounds, but there will be alot less advanced users. so a ver large percentage of the users will love the new feature
>>> As far as I know almost everyonethat uses MSN has used the file transfer at some time. But only a small percentage uses sounds. Like I said, it's a non-plus item so it isn't measurable. but because non-plus users also use file transfer, it's safe to say that there are MANY more people that use file transfer than sounds :)


not true at all, the more advanced users will know how much the stats are need to inporve the program !! and i guess that very very few people have the stats turned off
>>> Actually, I don't know anyone who has it turned on. People don't like stuff being sent over the internet without you knowing. It can cause lag n stuff ;)

Answers in quote ;)

Jeronimo> Ithink most of my above messages already answer you, especially the part where I said that I just downloaded that file transfer plugin ;)

Menthix> As I've said above, you have to see the bigger picture. MSN is part of something much larger, and the money generated by ads is nothing compared to what msn does for microsoft.
It doesn't mean that I don't see why the ad-disable-option is taken out, but I'm just against it :)
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by toddy on 02-13-2005 at 03:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
Menthix> As I've said above, you have to see the bigger picture. MSN is part of something much larger, and the money generated by ads is nothing compared to what msn does for microsoft.
It doesn't mean that I don't see why the ad-disable-option is taken out, but I'm just against it
wot bigger pocture.......wot does messenger do for microsoft ??? i bet theres alot of n00bs that don't even know that msn is owned/run by microsoft

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
>>>Actually, it's like handing out samples; you lose money by doing so, but you drag people into the MS world. Microsoft would rather have you use their program for free than someone else's program. The money for the ads is just extra
already answered with about
quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
MSN is also used for meeting people you don't know yet, and stuff like this could lead to a bad start
meeting people :dodgy: its mainly just used to talk to friends that you already know

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
>>> Actually, I don't know anyone who has it turned on. People don't like stuff being sent over the internet without you knowing. It can cause lag n stuff
its a small text file with 1's and 0's, which is sent once a month......majour lag ;) :P
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Jeronimo on 02-13-2005 at 03:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast

Jeronimo> Ithink most of my above messages already answer you, especially the part where I said that I just downloaded that file transfer plugin ;)
Heh heh, I think I was writing my post while you edited yours. Great minds think alike though :D

I would prefer that Plus left in the hide ad feature, but I understand why it was removed. At least there are other options available. I think the direction Plus is taking is not wrong at all. With the latest feature, I think it will re-energise Plus which was Patchou's intention. This should help Plus gain even more users, which can only be a good thing :)
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by L. Coyote on 02-14-2005 at 07:34 AM

I don't think MsgPlus! is going in the wrong direction. :s

I do know of a wide audience that might never know of MsgPlus! because of certain factors.

One of them is that MsgPlus!, for a lot of new computer users, seems hard to set up (as incredible as it sounds). And most features MsgPlus! has are not used by these new computer users.

With this new one: Custom Emotion Sounds, MsgPlus! might be able to reach some of these users, and they might start using MsgPlus! as a whole.




All this sounds like I'm saying "facts", but I'm just giving an opinion. Can't express myself correctly.

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Patchou on 02-14-2005 at 08:18 AM

quote:
With this new one: Custom Emotion Sounds, MsgPlus! might be able to reach some of these users, and they might start using MsgPlus! as a whole.
Exactly. As for file-resume,  I think Microsoft should first fix their crapy file transfer protocol before any improvement can be considered in it :).
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Stigmata on 02-14-2005 at 08:32 AM

didnt the hide banner feature become un-stable in some versions of messenger??

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by toddy on 02-14-2005 at 11:05 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Stigmata
didnt the hide banner feature become un-stable in some versions of messenger??

no !! that was just when they changed the way ads where shown
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Joel4119 on 02-15-2005 at 04:18 AM

I see nothing wrong thats upcoming in the new Messenger Plus! version. Sure, the banner removal is a bit annoying, but Patchou is right in terms of MSN trying to get money off of the banner ads. Its wrong to use a program and patch out the only support you can give. You just have to click a couple of times on the banners to support MSN.

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Concord Dawn on 02-15-2005 at 04:35 AM

As previously mentioned, Stuffplug NG 2 has the disable ads feature. Also, Messpatch has it as well.

[offtopic]
Patchou: what about you adding some emotion sound pachs to the Customess program at Mess.be? Would be a good way to help bring our two communities closer together.

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by NiteMare on 02-15-2005 at 04:59 AM

well i completely disagree with your argument about the sounds, but eberyone has a right to there own opinion

but i kinda agree on the ad removal

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Concord Dawn on 02-15-2005 at 05:04 AM

The sounds are there for people who think that Plus! is all about the colours and sounds, which is a majority of people. There are some people, such as forum members, who know that Plus! is the most increbile piece of programming ever performed on an IM program, and therefore they know about it in great detail.

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Menthix on 02-15-2005 at 02:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Joel4119
You just have to click a couple of times on the banners to support MSN.
Actually, i don't think Microsoft gets payed per hit. I don't know exactly, but advertisers probally pay per ad based on how many impressions it had or how many exposure time. But the thing remains, if everybody would disable the ads, MSN ads would have less viewers. If MSN ads have less viewers, advertisers are less interested. If advertisers are less interested, Microsoft earns less money. I'm sure Microsoft won't ever die from that, but it's just a moral thing... Plus! can exsist without MSN, but when Plus! hides MSN ads... Microsoft earns less money from MSN, while Patchou earns more money from Plus! because of his ad-block popularity.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by zaidgs on 02-16-2005 at 11:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
that's how it works... just look at SMS; modern day girlfriends will get upset if you don't SMS them often enough. Just one of many things enforced upon you by society
so u are suggesting that SMS services should be closed?!?!
i dont think that if certain feature or service can be misused then it should not be made available in the first place; if we do things this way, technology will nvr prosper. a better way is to manage it through filters\options, and in our case disabling sounds. if sm1 wont like that its their problem, and maybe urs if their opinion concerns u.... in all cases, we just go ahead, not take back features.

also, i like all these personalization options that are kicking in: custom emoticons, animated emoticons, nudges, winks,,, and sounds will kick-in soon.... i kinda like the file transfer feature, but i think sounds make msn more fun, and thats the point of using it.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by XM4ST3RX on 02-17-2005 at 12:18 AM

Hi,

You are annoying... how dare you disrespect Messenger Plus!?...

First off, if u dont like it... dont bloody use it!!

Second off, maybe he removed the banner removal because he has a little respect for Microsoft. Respect works both ways.... if Patchou continued to add features which Microsoft really didnt like... then they would just try and make it harder and harder for Patchou in future versions of Messenger Plus!

Messenger Plus! has been a project Patchou has worked really, really hard on these past few years, and for someone who doesnt need to put no effort into it, and only needs to come here and disrespect it, thats just plain sad.


Kind Regards,
XM4ST3RX

p.s. little drunk while writing this post, so if it doesnt make sense a bit, please forgive me :P

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Snake on 02-18-2005 at 06:46 PM

It may be annoying having the ads there but there is alot of patches that you can get to get rid of it. But like every one else said Patchou is right for taking it out, Patchou works hard for his money I think Microsoft deserves the money they make as well for the ads

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by wj on 02-18-2005 at 07:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DeltaBlast
As I've said above, you have to see the bigger picture. MSN is part of something much larger, and the money generated by ads is nothing compared to what msn does for microsoft.
It doesn't mean that I don't see why the ad-disable-option is taken out, but I'm just against it

You have to keep in mind that EVERY department at microsoft looses money except the operating system division. So every dollar counts for microsoft when it comes down to it these days.
RE: RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Cromp on 02-18-2005 at 08:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by wj
You have to keep in mind that EVERY department at microsoft looses money except the operating system division. So every dollar counts for microsoft when it comes down to it these days.

so office loses money? and many other programs they make?

i dont think microsoft cares for little $$ here and there, msn messenger is there along with hotmail, to create extra services and dependancy on microsoft.

MSN Messenger's features are connected to Windows Messenger features (i.e Remote Assistance and other Activities), Windows Messenger is connected to the os Windows XP, With Windows XP you get Windows Media Player, which is now, without the use of plugins, is now connected back to Msn Messenger.

Microsoft want the user to need/want all of there products, and to do this they create a circle of dependency, where each product works better with another.

MSN Messenger is just another way for users to want/need/like microsoft, they give it away for free, along with hotmail, and generate revenue from the ad's from within the Messenger, This probably doesnt cover all the costs of giving away the messenger for free, but it does account for some of it.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Snake on 02-18-2005 at 10:10 PM

I'm Positive they lose more money on MSN Messenger and Hotmail for there free servise. But they will try anything to get a littel bit of $$ Rolling in.

RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by x2zen on 02-18-2005 at 10:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by snake1131
But they will try anything to get a littel bit of $$ Rolling in.
If you had to choose between getting some money for a product you have spend way over 1000 hours on or not getting any money. What would you choose?
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by MPIS on 02-18-2005 at 11:29 PM

Hey. I'm probably only gonna be here for this one post. I tried Messenger Plus and uninstalled it after 10 minutes. It had some nice features, and looked kinda cool. But the one thing that really - I mean REALLY pissed me off about it was the sounds. I don't want people sending me repetitive and intrusive sounds when I'm trying to listen to music or something. Why was there no way to disable them?

And why will the next version disable the ads? If Microsoft complained, fair enough, but if not - why?

quote:
I'm Positive they lose more money on MSN Messenger and Hotmail for there free servise.
Exactly. Windows and Office are the only two sections of Microsoft that actually make money. Surely any Firefox user who has had the vigilante pleasure of blocking every advert they see with AdBlock will know what I'm talking about.

And the little things. I couldn't get the sound scheme off. The archiving is too picky. To be honest, the whole thing feels like a gimmick

To sum up, Messenger Plus? Wouldn't touch it with a bargepole. Hey, call me a troll - but I'm just giving my opinion.
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Tochjo on 02-18-2005 at 11:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MPIS
Why was there no way to disable them?
There is: go to Plus! > Preferences > Instant Messages > Commands & Tags and disable "Allow sound commands".

quote:
Originally posted by MPIS
why will the next version disable the ads? If Microsoft complained, fair enough, but if not - why?
Please see 'MSN advertisement banner' removal :)

I don't really understand what you mean with
quote:
Originally posted by MPIS
I couldn't get the sound scheme off. The archiving is too picky.
Anyway, if there are millions of users, there are bound to be a few who dislike the program as well ;)
RE: Am I the only one that thinks msg plus is going in the wrong direction? by Belleza Fria on 02-22-2005 at 06:00 PM

I believe that everyone should express his/her opinion...but...please be logical about it? There ARE more less advanced users who use Plus!. And most of those I know use it for entertainment. They love the sounds and the nick color.
...I thought Patchou Explained it all ( the AD banner). If you haven't realized MSN plans on getting revenue out of MSN messenger...Like it or not. I just hope we never have to pay to enable any of the new features coming up. :|