this question was originally asked by ash_ in my 'stupid thread of do we exist or not', so ash_

and it is this: what is your opinion on this question, are heaven and hell real?
just state what you think and why.








i know most of you are intelligent to already know this, BUT:

do not discriminate other people's beliefs/theories/faith/religion or lack thereof.

everybody has a different point of view even people who are of the same religion or who are both atheists. everyone is different and views things differently, so NO one is right. -> seriously. (for eg. if i dont believe what you say, even though other people do, it means you are not right 'to me')

there is no real proof for what anybody here says except for what lays in your hearts

you can comment on other people's opinion, but dont try to convert anybody. this is just for discussion and reflection.

and FINALLY i'm interested in everybody's responses.

its what u believe in...whether its there or not..for some ppl there is and for some ppl there isnt

there is no real way in telling whether there is a heaven or a hell, but there is no devil, or the depictions aren't correct, as the devil is just a depiction of Pan the greek god, or roman, its in both of theirs history.

I cannot say whether there is a hell or a heaven, but I know that after we die, there is something, our family is very spiritual and we have links with clairvoyents, I'm not talking about stupid stuff like these gypsys, but I'm talking about real everyday people who have gifts, these people can communicate with the spirits of those who have passed away...

hmm i dont think there is an afterlife just for the fact.

you die -> your heart stops -> no blood to your brain -> your brain cant think or function -> you wouldnt be able to think theres a heaven or hell so it dont realy matta imo

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Originally posted by may73alliance
hmm i dont think there is an afterlife just for the fact.

you die -> your heart stops -> no blood to your brain -> your brain cant think or function -> you wouldnt be able to think theres a heaven or hell so it dont realy matta imo

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Hmm, I don't get how you can say that... You're basically saying that we don't have spirits, our bodies are pretty much hosts to our souls, thats our inner-self, and if you die, that inner self is still alive, its just in a different state to those who are 'living', but define living, if you can see, your hearts beating, it doesn't mean that you aren't alive if you die... You go on, and live in the afterlife, I don't want to rattle on, I just want to share my knowledge with others, I've learnt a lot over the past, seen dodgy stuff and heard dodgy things.

what are souls though, wheres the proof they exist. yea theres a lot of 'supernatural' about ghosts and message from beyond the grave etc. but theres no solid evidence. im not a sceptic, but im also not a believer, i just need some harder evidence imo....

there is also the theory that when we die we awaken from this dream (life) ....sorta like the matrix but without giant squids....lol dats ma m8s belief....

quote:

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Originally posted by may73alliance
what are souls though, wheres the proof they exist. yea theres a lot of 'supernatural' about ghosts and message from beyond the grave etc. but theres no solid evidence. im not a sceptic, but im also not a believer, i just need some harder evidence imo....

there is also the theory that when we die we awaken from this dream (life) ....sorta like the matrix but without giant squids....lol dats ma m8s belief....

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nope, no heaven or hell.
If someone thinks they exist, please point me the way
There's no scientific proof that they exist in another place than peoples brains.

And I don't believe in the whole death - afterlife thing, when you're dead, you're dead. Simple as that. People are just afraid of death, that's why they make up stories about a better life after death, simply to comfort them. Same with religions.

Even if I don't believe in these things, I still think the idea, and the fact that these stories have been around for over 2000 years, is pretty interesting.

im like that though, kinda pessimystic tryna find faults in things.... oh well. other peoples thoughts are interesting though from there experiences etc. makes more sense to others than some...

i think that there is a life after death.

i like to look at all religions and kind of summarize what they say, its all the same in the end. no matter what, they all point in the same direction - life after death. so whether it be a human invention to overcome fear of death. or a way/source of control... i think it is still odd that so many people in so many different places all seek to believe in something existing after death.

there is no solid proof, i mean there can never be. (unless you die and you actually see it for yourself)

umm... i dunno, i like to believe that the world had to start somewhere. perhaps it always existed, or maybe something triggered it to start existing... and maybe that something was god ... and when we die we go back to the source of all existance. it may not be heaven/hell but just maybe something is there.

its all about science now-a-days isn't it .

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Originally posted by traxor
its all about science now-a-days isn't it .

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tbfh, most of science is pure theory.

i believe that there is an after life, but it can be explained through science.

When you die, you decompose and your nutrients get absorbed into the soil, which in turns feeds the trees, grass and plants, that then get eaten by animals, who die, have their nutrients absorbed into the soil...

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Originally posted by saralk
believe that there is an after life, but it can be explained through science.

When you die, you decompose and your nutrients get absorbed into the soil, which in turns feeds the trees, grass and plants, that then get eaten by animals, who die, have their nutrients absorbed into the soil...

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Originally posted by traxor
its all about science now-a-days isn't it .

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quote:

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Originally posted by ~INVASION~
and i dont get all these gothic satanic worshipers doont theyt know that bye them praising the devil will only make their after life a bagillion times worse. Like the devil isnt their to make ppl worship him, hes their to punish sinners and ppl of wrong doings.

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Originally posted by ~INVASION~
wow i just wrote a fricken report i think im gonna use that someday in my ethics class

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i like saralk's ideas, its out of the box, lol makes u think

yay lets all go out and feed the earth 6000$ cascets!!!!!

when i die i hope i just fall off a tall building to my death, it would be the ride of the life time followed by nothing

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Originally posted by may73alliance
i like saralk's ideas, its out of the box, lol makes u think

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Originally posted by ~INVASION~
Ur brain knows to think and say "o my GOD" "please help me GOD" the brain is suppose to know and thats what it it knows, God. Now is that because the brain knows more then we do or is it because we were raised in catholic society.

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Originally posted by Z_Joanna_ZZZ
stop looking at my siggy)

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I don't think that "Heaven" and "Hell" exist i just think they are an easy way to look at things. It in a way diverts the fear of death and at the same time is used to encourage people to live their life in a better way.

When you die their is no after life. The only glimps of what you could call an afterlife is the one at when you brain is still functioning which can go on for a about an hour. Once the brain deteriorates there is nothing to keep you thinking. The soul does not live on as it is in the brain. Your soul is simply the unique way your brain functions and processes. When you die you basicly decay (or not if you're cremated or cryogenicly frozenlol).

Because of this you experiance nothing after death. Think of it as that time when you fall asleep and wake up in the morning. Its like you go to sleep and then pretty much immediatly you wake up and yet 12 hours have passed. It's that nothingness that repeats in you mind after.

I guess it is nice to think that way and give people something to live for. I don't but, this is one of those things i feel strongly about and so believe it. I like to look at things logically. When this belief is put into categories and religions though, i think it all goes rong there, but that's a different story.

In the Name of Allaah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,

Do Heaven and Hell exist? Most certainly, I believe so.

Why? Well, without going into scripture (because not everyone believes in certain books [perhaps this is another discussion]) I'll just tell you how I see it.

As toddlers we are taught that if we do something bad, we receive a punishment of some kind (whether that be no chocolate or a smack on the bum, lol) and if we do something good then we receive a reward. This is true throughout our childhood, being a teenager and an adult - throughout our whole lives. This is also true through common law, if you break the law you receive a punishment, and if you do something outstanding then you are acknowledged and receive a reward.

So, are people wronged in this life without receiving justice? Yes. Do people do good and aren't rewarded? Yes. So it's only logical that after one dies, there is a recompense for all those actions, a punishment and a reward. How can one deny this, and why is it so hard to believe when we don't deny it in this life?

If you don't believe in life after death, then you believe that your life is without meaning. If you don't believe in life after death, then I ask you what are you doing here? Go out, have fun, do whatever you want, absolutely anything that makes you feel good.. good or bad? Who cares! Just do it! Why? You believe you won't be judged and punished/rewarded in the next life, you believe there is nothing, so stop wasting your meaningless life and at least have some fun while you're here (not that you'll remember it after, because you'll cease to exist, remember?). In fact, kill yourself right now and rid yourself of this misery. Absolutely Meaningless.

If you believe the above, and believe in God, then you also believe that God has put us here for fun and play, without wisdom, implying God is imperfect.

I believe we have been created to worship God how GOD intended us to worship Him, how do we know how? Perhaps this is yet another discussion. In short, I believe that if you submit to God how He intended you to then you will be judged on your deeds and be punished or forgiven for your sins, be recompensed for any injustice towards you, and inevitably enter Paradise for eternity. On the flip side, I believe if you don't submit to God the way He intended, you will receive justice from the others that wronged you on the day of judgment, and then you will go to Hellfire, for eternity.

And as ~INVASION~ mentioned, if you're wrong, you'll suffer for it. If I'm wrong, I lost nothing (and infact led a very happy and fruitful life). But if I'm right (and I believe with 100% certainty with a foundation that can not be shaken [because of the proof that my religion gives], that I am right), the reward is Paradise.

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Originally posted by Z_Joanna_ZZZ
i know, whats with "science" i mean what REAL proof is there in science? they keep on changing stuff and cant really explain the source of "matter's" existence. or why its even there.

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quote:

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Originally posted by saralk
i believe that there is an after life, but it can be explained through science.
When you die, you decompose and your nutrients get absorbed into the soil, which in turns feeds the trees, grass and plants, that then get eaten by animals, who die, have their nutrients absorbed into the soil...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Z_Joanna_ZZZ

quote:

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Originally posted by ~INVASION~
Ur brain knows to think and say "o my GOD" "please help me GOD" the brain is suppose to know and thats what it it knows, God. Now is that because the brain knows more then we do or is it because we were raised in catholic society.

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its a good question... similarly do we chose to believe certain things, because they actually exist? or .. because we are subconciously pulled into believing them by the society. like respect, toleration, lack of it etc. for instance y do we think its wrong to kill? right? (and i'm not being freaky with this, its just a question, stop looking at my siggy)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Z_Joanna_ZZZ
y do we think its wrong to kill?

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I believe Heaven and Hell do exist. It says right in the Bible they do. And the Bible is the word of God. God would never lie, since he is pure good and is a man of loving affection towards every one of us. God loves us all, good or bad.

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Originally posted by DJeX
I believe Heaven and Hell do exist. It says right in the Bible they do. And the Bible is the word of God.

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in regard to god and life after death i could start this off like this -

we can very easily see that humans do have a sense of wrong/right. they seek a sense of order and harmony. we all seem to obey similar unspoken rules. those rules are set or just exist to create a certain type of balance. those rules can be argued to be passed on by society. BUT, take a look at everything. EVERYTHING is in perfect balance. the fact that there is life and death, that we are so perfectly made that (even though we are made of so many different parts, they all seem to work so well together), look at the planets which orbit around the sun. the galaxies and the whole universe. we live indeed in a very balanced type of world. having said all that, i like to think that god is the source of this balance. to me nothing would make sense if it was not true.

it all had to start somewhere. no scientific theory can prove that the universe existed forever - in fact we loosely are starting to get certain information of how the our earth/galaxy and ultimately the world came to existance. if it did not last forever, than what started it? even that initial "big bang" what triggered it?


as for science being all "theory" -it is. scientific "facts" get changed day in day out. sure we keep the same name for things "atoms" for instance but we find out more about their content, definitions of things change. (the atom was said to be a the smallest component, ultimately unbreakable - yet guess what, it is made of electrons, protons and neutrons, which are themselves made up of quarks, and now we are "theorizing" that the smallest matter are these strings of energy) what next?

shall i go on? what about light? not long ago they thought it was made up of particles, than waves, but now the interpretation is that it is made up of BOTH of these things. whats next i ask again?

THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE theory for the existance of things. why does everything have "theory" stuck to its label .. "gavitational theory" "theory of evolution" etc.

if you look into it, ALL scientists (if that is what they really are) SAY that ALL science is THEORY. that is a fact

going on to say, that there is no explanation for the existance of light, water, solids. we know its there and how it forms from other substances/sources but in the end we only can go so far. we dont know why they exist and how it all started. they all seem to have a specific cause...

so to summarize, why do we exist? do we also have a cause? is there something we are living for in the end? or does our purpose end at death? so many questions.. i wanna hear more of your thoughts and answers

quote:

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Originally posted by DJeX
I believe Heaven and Hell do exist. It says right in the Bible they do. And the Bible is the word of God. God would never lie, since he is pure good and is a man of loving affection towards every one of us. God loves us all, good or bad.

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Originally posted by ProblemWv Authority
I think that the bible is basicly a big fairy tale. More like a book of myths like the greek ones. It was symply put together and grown over years and years of passing through generations. A book of philosophies read, followed and added to through experiance. It's a big metaphore of the way you should live life in a story of the journeys and adventures of the named "Jesus". Nothing particularly rong with it, just how people over exadurate its importance, it's quite stupid but you know, if people chose to do so then it's their choise and I guess it does set a good example on the hole.

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quote:

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Originally posted by DJeX
I believe Heaven and Hell do exist. It says right in the Bible they do. And the Bible is the word of God. God would never lie, since he is pure good and is a man of loving affection towards every one of us. God loves us all, good or bad.

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Sceince is always changing. By the time I am 18, none of the stuff I have learned will be any relevant to new day beleifs.

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Originally posted by ProblemWv Authority
I think that the bible is basicly a big fairy tale. More like a book of myths like the greek ones. It was symply put together and grown over years and years of passing through generations. A book of philosophies read, followed and added to through experiance. It's a big metaphore of the way you should live life in a story of the journeys and adventures of the named "Jesus". Nothing particularly rong with it, just how people over exadurate its importance, it's quite stupid but you know, if people chose to do so then it's their choise and I guess it does set a good example on the hole.

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Originally posted by paperless
And in my opinion religion exists to control people nothing more an intelligent way tbh

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Originally posted by paperless
If you want me to post my whole opinion..ok ill make the effort

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EDIT: I just wanna say that this is so cool that everybody is so civilized and respectful, as this is a very very contraversial topic YAY! everybody's awesome

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Originally posted by NoName
Edit :: Science has not proven the evolution of mankind from ape. It is just a theory.

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Originally posted by andrey
I would say that some humans believe in something like a god, a creature that rules and watches over us all IS determined by our environment, our parents, our education. It's just the way we humans evolved, we always need someone who 'leads' us, thus we invented god.

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Ok.. you think religion is a good thing..? start telling good reasons to believe in one..
I think religion used to be a mean to control people..nowadays its like a football club IMO.
If you ask a father: "why did the war happen?" he says: "because god wanted it to happen" thats just dumb.. if god really existed like some believe, he wouldnt let war and other bad things happen.

The religion at least the most common one is full of contradictions, things that today are proven that are false among other things.

How many people suffered with the inquisition here in Europe? Just because they didnt follow the right steps of church do you think Jesus or whoever died for "us" would want that people to die, get tortured, etc just because they commited mistakes or things against church or whatever?

In that time everyone was controlled by religion if they said it was the word of god, it was, there was nothing to put in question and period.

Thanks to renaissance we got out of that period that only brought us delays in humanity.
Im not believing in something that caused so much suffering specially to judaists ( Christianity was originally developed as a part of Judaism ) and that is clearly full of lies, specially nowadays believing in any religion has no point..

I dont think the only bad religion is christianity.. im against any kind of religion sorry to tell this but IMO people that believe in it...im not telling more coz i dont want my post deleted.

I try not to get surprised and stuff but always when i see someone tlaking like: "omg god is the best he created us omg he rules!!" i just look at that person as someone that was kidnapped by ETs and came back with the ideas all wrong in the head..
I think: "how can someone normal believe in that and think that way?"
I try not to look to these people like that and try to accept.. but i cant.
Im not killing anyone for being christan but im probably not talking with that someone about religion because it will only guide to  bad discussions...
It is useless to try to make them believe god doesnt exist because they were told that word of god isnt questionable and stuff.. thats why i think this was a wise mean of controlling people minds at least in medieval ages.

paperless -
i'm christian and i like to hear different opinions. not everything is what it seems to be. dont judge by those few who made themselves known for the wrongs they did.

but its sad, because you are right with most of the things you said. i agree... but to me it still does not prove that god (as i imagine him) does not exist. which is cool, because this thread is not about converting people just sharing opinions

but yeah, i agree totally that "religion" can be a tool. it can be a way of manipulation. that is why i think that "faith" and "spirituality" have a higher quality than religion. it is sad sometimes isnt it, that people cannot differentiate between the two. especially those who killed for their "religion" in the past... if they were true believers they would have followed not orders of the church but their faith first.

quote:

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Originally posted by Z_Joanna_ZZZ
in regard to god and life after death i could start this off like this -

we can very easily see that humans do have a sense of wrong/right. they seek a sense of order and harmony. we all seem to obey similar unspoken rules. those rules are set or just exist to create a certain type of balance. those rules can be argued to be passed on by society. BUT, take a look at everything. EVERYTHING is in perfect balance. the fact that there is life and death, that we are so perfectly made that (even though we are made of so many different parts, they all seem to work so well together), look at the planets which orbit around the sun. the galaxies and the whole universe. we live indeed in a very balanced type of world. having said all that, i like to think that god is the source of this balance. to me nothing would make sense if it was not true.

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Here is something one guy decided to do, he stopped being christan after reading bible. there he has a review made by him where hepoints the contradtictions injustice etc of each phrase in bible (i think so, i havent seen the whole site): http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

quote:

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Originally posted by paperless
Here is something one guy decided to do, he stopped being christan after reading bible. there he has a review made by him where hepoints the contradtictions injustice etc of each phrase in bible (i think so, i havent seen the whole site): http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

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bah, I dun believe in heaven or hell
Let's say I was christian, then i'd be automatically doomed in a bunch of other beliefs,
but if I believe in any of those other beliefs, there'd be other's that'd doom me...
so basicly, i'd always be doomed
and I don't like thinking about it that way

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Originaly posted by: andrey
Have you ever seen god, heaven or hell ?
The idea of heaven and hell is completely invented by humans, simply because nobody has ever seen heaven or hell and then came back to tell us it exists.
So how should we know ìt exists ?

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now here's the weird thing about me, im a bit weirded out by death so i really want to believe they exist, but i really dont know, the thought of hell exisiting  stops me from doing anything to bad though

You should give the Bible a reading. Even if you don't believe in God, Devil, Heaven, Hell it really helps relieve the stress off life and it guides you to the right direction. I know it helps me a lot.

to much, i mean i used to have religous education as one of my classes and we read some of the bible, it just semt to drag on

I know what you mean by drag on. You can't really read a lot at one time. I read about 2 pages a day. Sometimes I just skim through the Bible and read random things.

The Revelations in the New Testament I find the most interesting. It's what is going to happen in end times when Jesus comes down and fights off the Devil and how God will punish all that follows the Devil.

wooo bibles only thing in the bible i know is whats in my signature, lol

i believe in Heaven .. look at Jimi Hendrix,, now i'd wanna be burried near a Legend like he was 

[philosiphical statement alert]

in my opinion heaven and hell exist if you believe they do, if you do not believe they do than they dont

if you think  about it.

If Christianity was the right religeon, and Heaven and Hell do exist.

How come there's other religeons?, like buddhism.

Why is the Buddhism if our Version of the after life is correct?

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Originally posted by Ash_
if you think  about it.

If Christianity was the right religeon, and Heaven and Hell do exist.

How come there's other religeons?, like buddhism.

Why is the Buddhism if our Version of the after life is correct?

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Dont ask me why cause i dont know but i seem to believe in the reincarnation bit. That implies no for sure so thats my vote but it wouldnt hurt if that were a different option

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Originally posted by andrey
As we know now, every organism, every atom, nearly everything in nature (wind, water etc) has some sort of energy, and energy can only be converted into energy, eg. wind energy --> electric energy, energy can't be lost or created.
Of couse, humans have energy too, partially electric energy.
But can we call this cycle "afterlife" ? This constant energy exchange only happens in the level of atoms and molecules, so it's no real "life".

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Originally posted by saralk

quote:

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Originally posted by andrey
As we know now, every organism, every atom, nearly everything in nature (wind, water etc) has some sort of energy, and energy can only be converted into energy, eg. wind energy --> electric energy, energy can't be lost or created.
Of couse, humans have energy too, partially electric energy.
But can we call this cycle "afterlife" ? This constant energy exchange only happens in the level of atoms and molecules, so it's no real "life".

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the nutrients in your body, i.e. the protein used to make cells, any food that was in your body, the fat in your body, everything stems from other organic materials (im not talking about organicly grown food, im talking about naturally occuring materials), when you, or any lifeform dies, all these nutrients are taken from their body, these nutrients will help another lifeform grow, be it through the minerals being absorbed into the soil, which plants use to grow, and then create fruits that animals eat, or by maggots eating your body.

Either way, your flesh will become, in one way or another, part of another being.

This is something that can be explained through science, not through religion, and i think it is a nice way to live your life, knowing that through your death, you spawn the life of others.

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nah i doubt it totally

doubt what, saralks thing or that heaven and hell exist?

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Originally posted by Ahmad
In the Name of Allaah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,

Do Heaven and Hell exist? Most certainly, I believe so.

Why? Well, without going into scripture (because not everyone believes in certain books [perhaps this is another discussion]) I'll just tell you how I see it.

As toddlers we are taught that if we do something bad, we receive a punishment of some kind (whether that be no chocolate or a smack on the bum, lol) and if we do something good then we receive a reward. This is true throughout our childhood, being a teenager and an adult - throughout our whole lives. This is also true through common law, if you break the law you receive a punishment, and if you do something outstanding then you are acknowledged and receive a reward.

So, are people wronged in this life without receiving justice? Yes. Do people do good and aren't rewarded? Yes.

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So it's only logical that after one dies, there is a recompense for all those actions, a punishment and a reward. How can one deny this, and why is it so hard to believe when we don't deny it in this life?

If you don't believe in life after death, then you believe that your life is without meaning. If you don't believe in life after death, then I ask you what are you doing here? Go out, have fun, do whatever you want, absolutely anything that makes you feel good.. good or bad? Who cares! Just do it! Why? You believe you won't be judged and punished/rewarded in the next life, you believe there is nothing, so stop wasting your meaningless life and at least have some fun while you're here (not that you'll remember it after, because you'll cease to exist, remember?). In fact, kill yourself right now and rid yourself of this misery. Absolutely Meaningless.

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If you believe the above, and believe in God, then you also believe that God has put us here for fun and play, without wisdom, implying God is imperfect.

I believe we have been created to worship God how GOD intended us to worship Him, how do we know how? Perhaps this is yet another discussion. In short, I believe that if you submit to God how He intended you to then you will be judged on your deeds and be punished or forgiven for your sins, be recompensed for any injustice towards you, and inevitably enter Paradise for eternity. On the flip side, I believe if you don't submit to God the way He intended, you will receive justice from the others that wronged you on the day of judgment, and then you will go to Hellfire, for eternity.

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And as ~INVASION~ mentioned, if you're wrong, you'll suffer for it. If I'm wrong, I lost nothing (and infact led a very happy and fruitful life). But if I'm right (and I believe with 100% certainty with a foundation that can not be shaken [because of the proof that my religion gives], that I am right), the reward is Paradise.

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i believe its all in your head, there's no way of telling if any of these afterlives are true because its the afterlife, meaning they cant speak to us

we are made of flesh and blood. religion, hell, heaven, ghosts, etc. IT'S ALL IMAGINATION. we want to explain what we can't explain. our brain thinks and thinks and goes way too far.

religion, etc. are caused by the high intelligence of mankind.

lol of course heaven and hell dont exist. the likely hood that us humans actually thought of something that is there is so unlikely i severly doubt it.
you just die and then your dead. peoplewho thhink overwise are jst trying to cling onto a safety blanket so they dont have to think about them not existing anymore. but you wont. when you die you are dead and nothing happens to you or your "soul" after that. thats it.

After death... you don't breathe any more... i think

I think Heaven and Hell do exist... or at least Purgatory

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Originally posted by atownjoe
After death... you don't breathe any more... i think

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Theres more evidence pointing to the fact that they don't exist, and besides the point, there are so many religions that there is a slim to none chance of this spesific part of it being true. I don't beleave in this, or anything written in the bible and such, because its just a man who wrote it, not God. There might be a higher power that got us this far (evolution and such) but I highly dought it. If you put a bunch of monkeys in a room with a typewriter forever, they'll write shakespeare. Same with perfection of the universe. But where all the empty space came from?


OMFG I HAVE THE WORST MIGRAIN

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Originally posted by Shawnz
If you put a bunch of monkeys in a room with a typewriter forever, they'll write shakespeare

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quote:

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Orginaly posted by: Shawnz
I don't beleave in this, or anything written in the bible and such, because its just a man who wrote it, not God.

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Originally posted by DJeX
God wrote the Bible through man. God told certain people to write it, including some of Jesus’ disciples.

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i was thinking earlier today about this (its not entirely linked to the original question)

umm.. i thought of a good argument for those that do not believe in god and for those who do.

because, we humans, are such a young species compared to the existance of planets, the universe, or basically even other living organisms. it is difficult for us to imagine or grasp the idea that some things may not have an end or a beginning. because we see things around us die all the time, we naturally assume that all things have a beginning and an end. that is why, it is hard for people to visualize the universe as always having an existance... what if it did exist forever? we are nothing - compared to all those ancient things that exist out there (or even on the earth). we just formed randomly because somehow an atmosphere necessary for our existance developed. had it been a bit different, maybe other beings would form.

... it was hard for me to find some sort of argument against it. but, it would not make any sense to me... looking at the perfection of our world. i mean everything exists in such a balance. EVERYTHING. its crazy...

i looked at it this way... god maybe is not as most people and religions view it/him/her.. what if god does not think/see/hear as most religions assume god does? people always give god HUMAN form, or way of understanding, human qualities.. (this is my opinion i dont mean to offend anybody's religion or non-religion) what if god IS the universe, what if god is the planets, galaxies, the earth, grass, rocks, fish, and a part of us.. everything that exists... i argue this way because, it sustains us, it gave us life.

i know this way of seeing things seems sort of pagan (kind of gives an explanation or excuse for those who in the past worshiped the planets or the sun) but think about it, it sort of makes sense. heaven and hell maybe are a fragment of our imagination than... or maybe they do exist but in a different way than anybody thinks. ...

just some abstract thoughts

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just some abstract thoughts

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There's no heaven or hell...
There's no god or devil...

* Omar only believes in himself...and in Yoko Ono

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Originally posted by DJeX
yep

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Originally posted by NoName

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Originally posted by DJeX
God wrote the Bible through man. God told certain people to write it, including some of Jesus’ disciples.

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Though, many other people wrote records, and recorded the word of God. It wasn't just people chosen by God.

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Originally posted by inc_haydn
Sorry to disagree with you guys but what about other religions who have their own versions of the bible? How were they directed to write them?

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i have suddenly started to think about jesus and have to read the bible for a subject at school so i am half half on this

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Originally posted by inc_haydn
Sorry to disagree with you guys but what about other religions who have their own versions of the bible? How were they directed to write them?

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Originally posted by Joa
all three - christianity, islam, and judaism base themselves on the old testament..

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ok sorry i didnt know they were all based around words of god etc....

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Originally posted by Ahmad
Islaam is based upon the Qur'aan and the Sunnah (way) of Muhammad  (peace be upon him)
The Qur'aan are the words of God revealed to Muhammad, and were written down by his companions (as he couldn't read or write).

The Qur'aan is a book that contains no errors nor contradictions, and has not been changed since it was revealed over 1400 years ago (unlike other books that man has since corrupted).

The Qur'aan also contains many scientific facts that have only been discovered in the past century.

For information about that visit: http://science4islam.com/ and http://www.islam-guide.com/

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Originally posted by Joa
yes, but how does Islam view the old testament?

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Originally posted by Ahmad
We believe in the Psalms that was revealed to Dawuud (David), we believe in the scripture that was revealed to Ibraahim (Abraham), we believe in the Torah that was revealed to Musa (Moses), we believe in the Gospel that was revealed to 'Eesa (Jesus), and we believe in any other scripture that was revealed to the Prophets and/or Messengers before them (Peace be upon all of them).

Having said that, we do not follow nor consider these books to be the pure word of God anymore, since they have been changed (and corrupted) by mankind - fact.

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Im fair sure there would be something after death but I dont think it will be one place for bad people and one place for good people , i think we will be reborn into other creatures or humans again.

i think that when we die, it's just like going to a sleep and we will never wake up from it again and cease to exist. it sounds scary even to myself

i once whent through a day where i thought about that theory and completely psyched out

I sometimes think about what space is? If God created this world where did he come from? Is there a higher God that controls space? Are there other planets with a God on them? OR Did our God create space? It's interesting to think about.

Asking whether heaven and hell exist is like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg? It can't be proven. The only people who know can't tell us.

And yea, DJeX, it is interesting to think about life, the way we live, how we got here, whether there are other life forms.. Maybe someone should start a great debate thread..