The topic of conversation was changed in the thread about Johnny Leaving. It turned to how this forum has changed for the worse. Some of us have expressed our opinions, and i wonder if there are any others that also want to speak out. I would ask that you treat everyones opinion with respect, and if you disagree, please back it up with a decent reason.

Original Thread:
http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=50454&page=4

Here are a collection of responces from the original thread for your ease.

Proxy:

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None of the forum staff want to ignolage it, because the cause if it are members that they are friends with, plus some of the staff are the cause also.

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Originally posted by Haz
Although, what is in the hands of all of us, is trying to make the changes be towards positive, not negative...

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When we try, we get ganged up on, or flamed. 

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Originally posted by Haz
Things change. Forum communities change. It is inevitable, so I think it's kinda fruitless to point a finger at change itself.

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No offence, but your wrong.  This kind of change doesn't just happen.  Yes things do change but when I look at what is happening, I don't like the outcome.  It makes me very sad, because I care about this community, and the members, but I don't know what to do or how to change it.  It cant be done by the members that see the problem and are tired of it.  It's in the hands of the forum staff and the problem makers.

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i know i'm not an old member, but lately i feel it too... it's kinda depressing. it's like the spirit of this community is slowly disintegrating. some examples are that - if there are even arguments or whatever, they get really personal, people take some things way too seriously, more often people gang up on like one person who does a little thing wrong.

tempers are short... blah.
there's so much stuff....... like i said, i'm a newb compared to most of the members here. but i feel the change too. it's hard to explain WHAT exactly is happening, but there is something.

just the whole mood of the forums has changed..

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Anyway, I agree with proxy. I notice that lately I try to stay out of certain threads because I get the feeling that my opinions will trigger a wave of flames and attacks that I don't really have the time or strength to read.

And it's sad to think that some people might be doing the same. Holding back because you think people will take things personally.

I don't blame anyone in particular, I think we're all responsible. Over the year I've been around, I've seen these negative periods (which I call "bad waves" ), although this time it's more obvious.

I admit I also took part of a lot of these so-called waves. Trying to change that because this is the first community I fit in so well... At least I think so... Didn't make any friends, but did meet interesting people who I share stuff with.

It'd be sad if all this ends because of pride and selfishness...

Wish I could write more, there were a lot of things I had to say but I have to go, grandparents are waiting for me. If I come back home early I'll reply again (if I didn't get flamed to death ).

Kuddos, I hope no-one gets offended by this.

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Guess it could be moderated a bit more, like by not letting personal feelings to someone else get in the way of people posting topics about things they want to talk about or share ideas about. If you don't like the person leave it... don't spam the thread with abuse, or if you dont agree with what the persons saying, don't get nasty about it.

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Things change. Forum communities change. It is inevitable, so I think it's kinda fruitless to point a finger at change itself.

Although, what is in the hands of all of us, is trying to make the changes be towards positive, not negative...

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How there are celebrities of the forum. How people gang up on others. How some treat new members with complete disregard. How staff has favourites and sometimes take bias decisions.

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I think that this forum is in a bit of a rut at the moment, but this has happened before.
I also think that people are blaming the admins way to much for this, its 90% members causeing the problems, and the admins overall to a great job on the forums.

seriously, i think it must be the change of weather or something
three people i know (including me) are depressed, all at the same time... tingeling it's school time and tingeling it's almost not summer anymore

nobody seems to smile or anything, and that includes me

I dno I think it's the lack of people posting here at the mo. I think it'll pick up and people will start acting responsable again.

The only problem I can see is that the lack of modding... I mean not one of my last 30 posts has went into the trash like it normally does. :/

First off, good idea Stigmata. 

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Originally posted by Stigmata
What a shame.

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
None of the forum staff want to acknowledge it, because the cause if it are members that they are friends with, plus some of the staff are the cause also.

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Originally posted by Haz
Although, what is in the hands of all of us, is trying to make the changes be towards positive, not negative...

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Originally posted by Haz
Things change. Forum communities change. It is inevitable, so I think it's kinda fruitless to point a finger at change itself.

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Originally posted by Carltos Cool
people will start acting responsable again.

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The forum doesn't seem too bad at the moment; I'll admit older members do seem to get more status and respect from other members than newer members however a way to look on this is that the member must prove themselves before they gain everyone is respect.
I don't like to insult newer members; if they post incorrect facts\advice, there's no need to flame them, just correct them and sure enough they will turn into active, helpful, and great members.

The big problem I find is that some members don't actually care about helping newer ones, they care too much about rushing in to help people without actually laying out their posts, which is very hard for less computer talented people to understand. They get so wound up in trying to look like a good helper that they post stuff that isn't properly researched and stuff less computer talented people won't be able to follow.

I agree with Anubis. The forum's aren't in a rut, and they're just like any other large forum - a bit rough around the edges.
What really matters is the core of the community, the glue that holds it all together. Everyone in this thread (and many more besides) are part of that glue, and we should all be proud of our own achievements, proud that we are useful people to have around.

As usual, it's the few who spoil it for the many. I won't name names (because, honestly, I can't think of a member that bad), but those who don't share the spirit end up losing out in the end.

I can guarantee to everyone on this forum - I'm here for the long haul. 'Till death parts us' sort of thing.

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Originally posted by Anubis
The big problem I find is that some members don't actually care about helping newer ones, they care too much about rushing in to help people without actually laying out their posts, which is very hard for less computer talented people to understand.

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If you guys don't like some members of the IRC community because we act differently, its because IRC has different rules. On IRC we just get rid of people right away if they're annoying or if they spam and no one cares. On these forums, everyone HAS to be respected ALL the time, even if we don't like people. Its the (lack of) rules on IRC that make it a more enjoyable place than the forums, and we all know how to control ourselves enough that it doesn't go to shit all the time even though our rules are more bare than on the forums.

I've recomend some action items to the staff. But Heres a question, List it out, what you would do to fix the problem.

And in response to Shawnz, Look at the volume of people that come through the forums, then look at the volume of people who go through IRC. Theres a huge difference. And IRC more often then not has ALOT more technically savy users so alot of n00b's dont end up there as often. Beyond that, It's a chat room, Not a forum.

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Originally posted by ShawnZ
If you guys don't like some members of the IRC community because we act differently, its because IRC has different rules

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Originally posted by ShawnZ
Its the (lack of) rules on IRC that make it a more enjoyable place than the forums

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Originally posted by ShawnZ
we all know how to control ourselves enough that it doesn't go to shit all the time even though our rules are more bare than on the forums

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
No, the lack of rules makes it so crazy.  The lack of rules makes it so you can all gang up on people when they try to talk to one person about a problem.  Then you piss that person off by what you say, then kick/ban them when they respond in the same manner (immature). 

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Originally posted by ShawnZ
Because no one likes that person. Once they have left everything is at peace again.

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Aren't we going offtopic here? Is this about forums or irc? You really can't compare the two.

Forums - everything's in writing...reply taking your time
IRC support chan - real time support...fast responces/solutions needed (good ones).

And no there are no fights in the supportchan...if there is, a chanop or ircop will take care of it...if there are arguments it's in the chatchan, that chan has less rules..you can't prevent arguments from happening inthere..it's life. It's easier to not post if you feel offended onhere than it is to walk away on irc.

Being a good helper (quick, good help, not loosing patience...staying friendly) on irc is a hell of a lot tougher than it is to be a good one onhere.

you can't just allow a whole lot of people to get to know each other and to talk and hope it works, because it won't. on the internet people feel like they are in a position of power, if owning a newb makes them feel that way even more, im sure they will do it. Although i don't agree with some of the decisions made by the forum staff, don't say they're not doing their job. With the number of threads, members and posts on this forum it's alot of work (and they don't even get paid ). we only have ourselves to blame for what we've done, we were the role models. we showed bad examples and this is the way things turned out.


now excuse me but im going to play World of Warcraft ,

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Originally posted by Sunshine
It's easier to not post if you feel offended onhere than it is to walk away on irc.

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This is simply my view of the current forum.

Things that I think need improvement or changes:

Reputation system - We should have a report reputation button next to the reputations, the only catch would be that the person who got the reputation should not be able to report his/her own reps. As for, if they got a negative for say spamming, they would report it and would just fill the report system with stupid reports. What would be the outcome or positive from it? Well, IMO it would stop people from abusing the system. Also, while I'm on about the reputation system, I think there should be more bans given out to those who abuse it. The only person who, AFAIK, that is banned from giving reputations would be Toddy.

Staff wise: IMHO, I think there should be LOCAL mods. People (Elites) should be given the oportunity to moderate certain forums. I know there are a small number of forums, but I do think that putting local mods would reduce the spam. And I see spam all the time, like today, 4 people said the SAME thing in a thread. That should not be allowed, and I remember back in the day if you confirmed or said things that had already been stated you got trolled.

More bans: I think the current system is fine, but when you see the SAME people getting banned weekly I do believe that is very dodgy. IICRC, I thought that people were going to be permanantly banned after like 5 bans? I may not be right, but I though Chris Boulton said that before. Also, I do believe that 1 day bans have got to be longer, because the people who are getting 1 day bans are just coming back doing the same crap as they did before.

Testing & Trashing: I think there should be set guidelines on what is allowed to be posted there. The current posts and threads are 99% useless, but I know the forum is there for people to spam. But when people go in topics and just go "HI" or  post one emoticon, it gets annoying, examples are there you just have to look.

Note: Yes my grammar is probably not 100% correctly and I don't care. So do not go offtopic with the grammar crap and/or posting stupid url's to grammar crap.

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Originally posted by lou_habs

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Originally posted by Sunshine
It's easier to not post if you feel offended onhere than it is to walk away on irc.

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That is the main reason that alot oif members do not go on irc. The first two times I went I was abused, insulted, abused some more, banned/kicked for just saying hi. They didn't want a new person there, so they it seem like the person said/did something offending. Sure it's not in the support chan. But alot of people go on the chat chans..and then leave because they were abused of or banned.

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Originally posted by XxRebelSeanxX
Note: Yes my grammar is probably not 100% correctly and I don't care. So do not go offtopic with the grammar crap and/or posting stupid url's to grammar crap.

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Rules on IRC are kind of inane. IRC is about mutual respect and not being a lamer. You can't govern IRC with rules for every petty little action. Read bash.org - notice the lack of respect for race, culture and anything in between in half of the quotes. Just as everywhere else respect is earnt on IRC; mostly by spending lots of time active, by hanging around channels for a long time; people soon learn that you are knowledgeable and not a lamer. In one channel I am in 80% of the members are ops and we all mutually respect each other's knowledge of IRC and general IRC behaviour - we're all veterans with experience - you work out 80% of 200 people. If you prove clueless or say stupid things then you are quickly removed. That's how IRC works.

Read about it: http://chowned.org/irc-guide.txt

Edit: This little tidbit from a ToS on a website that offers shell services for connecting to IRC sums up perfectly the ethic with which everyone should approach IRC:

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"The good news:  We're not anal.  You can use your shell however you like as long as it doesn't disrupt other corp users, consume an abnormal amount of system resources or bandwidth, break irc rules, attract packets, isn't illegal or doesn't violate the generally accepted code of online ethics.  In other words, don't be a retarded lamer.

The bad news: Corp shells are for mature and clueful individuals who know how to behave.  If you're generally hated, have a tendency to attract negative attention, or are abusive on irc, then this isn't the place for you. Corp is a stable server for irc clients, bots, and bnc's.   We don't have a lot of stupid rules, but the general rule of common sense applies.  This means respect and show some courtesy to your fellow Corp users; don't ruin it for everyone.  Any form of abuse (or generally any form of stupidity) is not tolerated and dealt with swiftly.  We reserve the right to remove your account for any reason at any time. If your account is terminated, don't hold your breath expecting a refund, we don't have time to play games. "

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Originally posted by XxRebelSeanxX
Yes, that is the way it was

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Originally posted by Ddunk
Got a problem with us? Don't bring it to the forums, keep the two seperate

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Originally posted by Ddunk
About IRC: Got a problem with us? Don't bring it to the forums, keep the two seperate, let the forums deal with their shit and let us deal with ours. If you don't really want to come there because you're afraid of the magical monster that says we chew out and kickban everyone who joins, PM an Op on the forums (Me, segosa, EvilSeph, Time, Chris Boulton, Dane, etc.)

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Originally posted by lou_habs

Is it really like that? The irc is run in a way for the same community. If you don't want us brining us issues on the forums about it, is it really because it annoys you? or because you can't just click block and pretend the person isn't telling everyone else the truth. Please do not take this personally. But everytime irc is brought up on here the people that are on there often always tell everyone to shut up. Maybe there is a problem. Sure its different than the community and therefore should be treated differently. But I think that issues can not always be resolved via pm. People may ignore them. As for msn, that can be an even bigger problem. You can't get a hold of the email address of someone that really really hates you, to tell them to stop it please. Do you really think that it's a good idea?

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Look guys being a member of these forums with a fair few amount of posts, and an oper on the irc forums.  I think I have a fairly reasonable view of what goes on in both.

Forums are ran by a team of what I'd call excellent Administrators and Moderators, they are very fair and put up with a lot of shit big forum mods and admins normally don't.  So don't whine or moan when something goes wrong, Dz and Surfi are normally on the ball and aware of most problems with users as they happen.  People argue people disagree but not much can really go wrong with the boards with the average user here.

IRC is in my opinion a completly different ballgame.   I learnt from the very basics in #msgplus.  I have moved across something like 5 servers to the support channels current home.  I have learnt a lot about people and the way IRC must work to be some sort of sane community.  Best real way to think of it is a channel is a classroom.  Operators are teachers and users are pupils.  Now most rules of human interaction are exactly the same.  Take for example I'm helping one user/pupil and you interupt with SHOUTING  I'm going to kick you in the channel, or tell you to sit down and shutup in a classroom.  Theres no difference.  Carry on and I'll send you outside my room.  Which would be similar to a kickban.  (Sorry if this is confusing but I'm trying to make it clear as possible).

Both are very different.  Sorry if I mumbled.  or Whatever but I'm tired and I jsut wanted to clear this up.

Feel free to contact myself if you have problems on IRC and I'll attempt to do my best.  I'm sure other opers would do the same. 

About IRC:
It was stated a LOT of times that IRC and the forums aren't the same. It doesn't matter if they're for MsgPlus! or for whatever they are, IRC issues and Forum issues are to be handled separately.

Now, this thread has become IRC-related, which is the opposite of its purpose.

To be honest, you don't require to be a great person to go to IRC. I'm an idiot who never does anything on IRC but to put smilies and whatnot, and never got banned or treated bad. So, maybe you could try a different approach.

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Originally posted by Time
IRC is about mutual respect and not being a lamer.
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Just as everywhere else respect is earnt on IRC; mostly by spending lots of time active, by hanging around channels for a long time; people soon learn that you are knowledgeable and not a lamer.
...
If you prove clueless or say stupid things then you are quickly removed. That's how IRC works.

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
None of the forum staff want to acknowledge it, because the cause if it are members that they are friends with, plus some of the staff are the cause also.

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Originally posted by lou_habs
They do a great job but do have favourites unfourtunately. And they take decisions based on their favourites. For example, I was banned once because I spammed a bit. Sure that is acceptable. However I was also told that it was because I asked to be a beta tester, which I never did. It was someone who posted before me, and I took the blame. And the admins/mods don't seem to like me anymore because of this. Sure some probably don't even care, but there are some like mnjul who seem to not like me.

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Originally posted by XxRebelSeanxX
Staff wise: IMHO, I think there should be LOCAL mods. People (Elites) should be given the oportunity to moderate certain forums. I know there are a small number of forums, but I do think that putting local mods would reduce the spam. And I see spam all the time, like today, 4 people said the SAME thing in a thread. That should not be allowed, and I remember back in the day if you confirmed or said things that had already been stated you got trolled.

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Originally posted by XxRebelSeanxX
More bans: I think the current system is fine, but when you see the SAME people getting banned weekly I do believe that is very dodgy. IICRC, I thought that people were going to be permanantly banned after like 5 bans? I may not be right, but I though Chris Boulton said that before. Also, I do believe that 1 day bans have got to be longer, because the people who are getting 1 day bans are just coming back doing the same crap as they did before.

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Originally posted by XxRebelSeanxX
Testing & Trashing: I think there should be set guidelines on what is allowed to be posted there. The current posts and threads are 99% useless, but I know the forum is there for people to spam. But when people go in topics and just go "HI" or  post one emoticon, it gets annoying, examples are there you just have to look.

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Originally posted by lou_habs
Is it really like that? The irc is run in a way for the same community. If you don't want us brining us issues on the forums about it, is it really because it annoys you?

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
You put me in a horrible mood, ruined my day, which in turn made my school class a really hard.

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
I'm leaving this forum, and the IRC chat channels.  Nice meeting all of you, GoodBye

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Originally posted by Wabz
Forums are ran by a team of what I'd call excellent Administrators and Moderators, they are very fair and put up with a lot of shit big forum mods and admins normally don't.

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Originally posted by lou_habs
That is the main reason that alot oif members do not go on irc. The first two times I went I was abused, insulted, abused some more, banned/kicked for just saying hi. They didn't want a new person there, so they it seem like the person said/did something offending. Sure it's not in the support chan. But alot of people go on the chat chans..and then leave because they were abused of or banned.

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[04:20:09] * Joins: lou_habs (~msgplus@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca)
[04:20:18] <@wacky> and there he is!
[04:20:24] <@Omar> you're not cool...
[04:20:28] <lou_habs> hey its you pplz
[04:20:29] <@wacky>
[04:20:32] <@wacky> yeah I am
[04:20:34] <lou_habs> hey wacky
[04:20:35] <@wacky> nah I aint lol
[04:20:37] <@wacky> hi lou
[04:20:39] <lou_habs> since when is your name wacky cool?
[04:20:47] <@wacky> I just replied to your post
[04:20:48] <@Omar> you body's temp is 37.5º just like everybody else...
[04:20:53] <lou_habs> lol
[04:21:05] <lou_habs> I need to be on here more often!
[04:21:08] <@wacky> lies omy.. mines at 20.34
[04:21:13] <@Omar>
[04:21:16] <@wacky> why.. this place sucks
[04:21:20] <@Omar> you ARE cool
[04:21:27] <@Ddunk> did you try another distro of linux lou_habs?
[04:21:27] <@wacky> haha
[04:21:49] <lou_habs> ddunk...I was able to make it work...and no only one distro...didnt like it
[04:22:01] <@Omar> doughboyy... this guy TylerG is making fun of you
[04:22:04] <@Omar>
[04:22:08] <@wacky> Now Playing: Murderdolls - I Take Drugs [00:26/01:43@128kbps]
[04:22:09] <@Ddunk> what didn't you like?
[04:22:17] <lou_habs> dunno...no imgs at all..lol
[04:23:03] <@Ddunk> there are a few with GUI, like redhat
[04:23:08] <@Ddunk> +a

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[04:31:54] <lou_habs> does chaotic_shield ever come on here?
[04:31:55] <@Omar> its a torrent site
[04:32:01] <@Ddunk> invite only
[04:32:05] <@Ddunk> and yes lou_habs
[04:32:33] <lou_habs> alright...ddunk Im not used to being on here...how in the world did you make that thing go ping?
[04:32:55] <@Ddunk> Ping? Pong!
[04:32:56] <@Ddunk> that thing?
[04:33:01] <@Ddunk> it's the server making sure you're still connected

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[05:05:41] <lou_habs> come on you lazy bums wake up and smell the roses
[05:06:10] <@wacky> roses have thorns
[05:06:39] <lou_habs> your dodgy imo

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[03:25:55] * lou_habs slaps XxRebelSeanxX around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:29] * lou_habs slapping time
[03:26:29] * lou_habs slaps AznAngel around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:30] * lou_habs slaps Dane around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:31] * lou_habs slaps Ddunk around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:32] * lou_habs slaps digital around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:32] * lou_habs slaps EvilSeph around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:33] * lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca) was kicked by Robot (Stop flooding!)
[03:26:39] <@AznAngel> owned.
[03:26:43] * Joins: lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca)
[03:26:43] <YBWZRD> pawned
[03:26:44] * lou_habs slaps Time around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:45] * lou_habs slaps Wabz around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:45] * lou_habs slaps Jenny around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:47] * lou_habs slaps paul|laptop around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:47] <lou_habs> sory bout that.
[03:26:48] * lou_habs slaps segbot around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:48] * Robot sets mode: +b *!*@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca
[03:26:48] * lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca) was kicked by Robot (Stop flooding!)

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[03:28:28] * lou_habs slaps lou_habs around a bit with a large trout
[03:28:41] * Robot sets mode: +b *!*@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca
[03:28:41] * lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca) was kicked by Robot (flood.)

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[19:01:25] <lou_habs> 4,1&#8364;9«0©9»4,1&#8364;9«0©9» 4,1&#8364; 9«0©9»4,1&#8364;9«0©9»4, 1&#8364;9« 0©9»4,1&#8364;9«0©9»4,1&#8364;9 «0©9»4,1&#8364;9«0©9» 4,1&#83 64;9«0©9»4,1&#8364;9«0©9»4,1 &#8364;9«0©9»4,1&#8364;
[19:01:26] <lou_habs> 4,1&#8364;9«0©9» 4,1&#8364; 9WELCOM E 4,1&#8364;9«0© 9»4,1&#8364;  9HUGS 4, 1&#8364;9«0©9»4,1&#8364;  9 WELCOME 4,1&#836 4;9«0© 9»4,1&#8364;
[19:01:26] <lou_habs> 4,1&#8364;9«0©9 »4,1&#8364;0,4              LittleK               4,1&#8364; 9«0©9»4,1&#8364;
[19:01:26] <lou_habs> 4,1&#836 4;9«0©9»4 ,1&#8364; 9WELCOME  4,1&#8364;9«0©9»4,1 &#8364; 9HUGS 4,1&#8 364;9«0©9»4,1&# 8364; 9 WELCOME 4,1&#8364;9«0 ©9»4,1&#8364;
[19:01:26] <lou_habs> 4,1&#8364;9«0©9» 4,1&#8364;....
[19:01:32] <LittleK>
[19:01:33] <ShawnZ> Holy fuck wtf.

[19:02:15] * lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca) was kicked by segosa (TURN IT OFF.)

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[19:26:36] <lou_habs> J00 MUST B0W D0\/\/|\| 2 ~|~|-|3 lou_habs()|_-|\/|A|\|
[19:26:42] <lou_habs> lol
[19:26:59] <@EvilSeph> http://www.web2messenger.com/forum/index.php/topi...g4306.html#msg4306 << this fuy is funny
[19:27:03] * lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca) was kicked by EvilSeph (.)

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Why are we winging theres nothing we can to the forums went downhill a long time ago they will never go back to the way they once were i find it sad to think i once cherised this place spent hours on end posting whatever the hell i felt like without anyone caring tbh no suggestion or anything can bring these forums back to what they once  were so we should just drop it and deal with those who are causing others grief

thats my input

Pip.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pipish
Why are we winging theres nothing we can to the forums went downhill a long time ago they will never go back to the way they once were i find it sad to think i once cherised this place spent hours on end posting whatever the hell i felt like without anyone caring tbh no suggestion or anything can bring these forums back to what they once  were so we should just drop it and deal with those who are causing others grief

thats my input

Pip.

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Originally posted by Sunshine
Being a good helper (quick, good help, not loosing patience...staying friendly) on irc is a hell of a lot tougher than it is to be a good one onhere.

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Originally posted by ShawnZ
Oh geez, its 2 am, I can't read that shit, mind adding some punctuation?

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Why are we winging theres nothing we can do .The forums went downhill a long time ago, they will never go back to the way they once were. I find it sad to think i once cherised this place spent hours on end posting whatever the hell i felt like without anyone caring. Tbh no suggestion or anything can bring these forums back to what they once were, so we should just drop it and deal with those who are causing others grief.

thats my input

Pip.

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Originally posted by Stigmata
staff just being stricter.
just basically deleting the rubbish, no splits etc.

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Originally posted by Stigmata
Longer bans, and more of them.

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Originally posted by Stigmata
Favourtism to be decreased, dont get me wrong, its great that you can make friend on these boards, i myself have made a fair few, but they should never be allowed to influence decisions.

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Originally posted by Stigmata
I would ask that some members are not treated like celebs. I highly disagree that people should hang on anothers every word because they are popular or cool etc. its just not right, you should all be a individual.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Stigmata
One of my experiences on irc:
i used to be a op on #banana, but one day it was removed without my knowledge. I was there for about half an hour/hour without realising this. Then LittleK, Frozendaggers plus others started bitching and arguing. I told them to stop it, and warned them with a kick (i was still oblivious to the fact that i wasnt a op). In return all i got was a rude responce telling me to F*ck off, stfu, gtfu etc.. then after i tryed to ban Littlek for being rude to a op, realising my op had been removed, i declared to the forum something along the lines of "wtf happen to my op " to i get the reply (similer reply) "LittleK: yeh thats why i didnt listen to you lol", "LittleK: If you were one, i would have shut up". While this is happening others such a segosa take no notice, dont ban her, dont kick her, and so on. Come on, just because they are girls they get special rights? Immune to discipline? "wow shes fit".

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Originally posted by Stigmata
staff just being stricter.
just basically deleting the rubbish, no splits etc.
Longer bans, and more of them.

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Originally posted by Stigmata
Elites + maybe others have the right to make posts invisible awaiting mod preview? so infectively deleting post but allowing it open to mod decision?

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Originally posted by Stigmata
Reputations should be looked at, maybe this same elite/member moderating system could be put in place?

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Originally posted by Stigmata
Favourtism to be decreased, dont get me wrong, its great that you can make friend on these boards, i myself have made a fair few, but they should never be allowed to influence decisions.

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Originally posted by Stigmata
I would ask that some members are not treated like celebs. I highly disagree that people should hang on anothers every word because they are popular or cool etc. its just not right, you should all be a individual.

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Originally posted by Stigmata
Not even a quarter of the users on the server actually help in the support channel..

i used to be a op on #banana, but one day it was removed without my knowledge. I was there for about half an hour/hour without realising this. Then LittleK, Frozendaggers plus others started bitching and arguing. I told them to stop it, and warned them with a kick (i was still oblivious to the fact that i wasnt a op). In return all i got was a rude responce telling me to F*ck off, stfu, gtfu etc.. then after i tryed to ban Littlek for being rude to a op, realising my op had been removed, i declared to the forum something along the lines of "wtf happen to my op " to i get the reply (similer reply) "LittleK: yeh thats why i didnt listen to you lol", "LittleK: If you were one, i would have shut up". While this is happening others such a segosa take no notice, dont ban her, dont kick her, and so on. Come on, just because they are girls they get special rights? Immune to discipline? "wow shes fit".

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code:

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[21:12:04] <Stigmata> SHUT UP!
[21:12:06] <LittleK> FrozenDaggers. we all sorted it out, it wasnt me who started the arguments everynight
[21:12:10] <FrozenDaggers> It is a fact cause you've proved my point already.
[21:12:14] <Jonny> right, AS SOMEONE who doesn't know a THING about this dispute, and hasn't seen any arguments himself, and generally is impartial, I command that no-one starts one now!
[21:12:23] <@segosa> Jonny: won't work.
[21:12:27] <@Shaun> /part and /ignore were made for reasons
[21:12:38] <FrozenDaggers> and I didn't know it was gonna cause trouble
[21:12:42] <LittleK> Ok
[21:12:45] <FrozenDaggers> cause I wasn't expecting you to come in.
[21:12:47] <FrozenDaggers> end of.
[21:13:26] <Stigmata> Anymore arguing results in a kick. Continous Arguing = Ban.
[21:13:38] <FrozenDaggers> ¬¬
[21:13:40] <LittleK> Stigmata, f o tbh ;\
[21:13:45] <LittleK> that count as a kick?
[21:13:48] <FrozenDaggers> yeah, what LittleK said.

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Ok, I read this whole thread (once and a half times) and what I can add to the many posts in here I agree upon (and the few I don't agree upon), is this:

It all comes down to having respect for eachother and to have respect for the rules! Think before you post something, read threads before posting something and report spam/abuse/wrong things with the report button.

And if you need to argue with someone, try to keep it a clean and a mature discussion (I know this isn't always easy though).

Rules are to be respected, not to be broken. If someone doesn't stick to them he/she will get punished.

If people follow the rules (and I mostly mean the "common sense" rules, not only the "don't do this don't do that" rules) then there is no reason for a mod/admin to take any action in the first place. So please don't blame them if things get worse on a forum, it is mostly the users themselfs who make or brake a forum.

If anything needs to be changed it is not a reputation report system, local mods, stickies, etc. (as those are all means to keep a problem under control, or mask it if you like, it is not to solve the problem), it is the behaviour of the people who use a forum. If everybody has a good mature senseable behaviour on a forum, then there wouldn't be any need for mods/admins/rules/whatever anyways...

(all this goes for IRC also... heck, for every kind of community...)

i somewhat agree. these forums are going downhill,  why, i think its partly to do with the fact People "care" so much about this "Reputation" system than anything else,

And ive just stopped posting, seeing as all this shit is going on..

What's with all these people leaving the forums when there are a few arguments? You think that's gonna solve the problem? If you do then i can tell you you are wrong! If anything it's gonna make it worse, big forums like these depend on people reporting posts and other mishaps (even posts in T&T if they are abusive). You can't expect a lil group of people to do it all. Admins and mods are trying their best..but don't expect them to read every single post, help them!

Asfor leaving threads, i've become somewhat immune to them (there were too many)..90% of those leaving come back, that's why you will not see me posting in them. It's only when people i know won't leave over nothing that i try to get them to stay. Dedication to a community means staying in good and bad times.

First of all, I agree with Anubis and Cookie (edit: and Sunshine, of course), I think we see the problem from the same side.

In the time I've been back from my idleness I've discovered that there's a group of helper-wannabes who really have good intentions, but are not following some certain ethical guidelines while helping and convert the support into a race for posting the first and not a race for posting the best.
Other times there are different points of view, and I'm keen on discussing them because I like to see things from different sides, but I expect others to be just as open-minded to listen to others' opinions. Some threads have fallen into certainly harsh tone and, I reckon, I'm not going to allow people to insult my point of view, as well as you won't see me insulting anyone esle's. This points directly to respect. I had to bite my tongue fingers quite some times to not to start acccusing of immaturity and direspect towards forum veterans or forum n00bs. It's not a matter of forum time, it's a matter of thinking one's above the rest and can easily insult or disregard what others say.

I try to keep a respectful attitude towards those who start to aggressively defend their points, but I'm not an Otherland's bot, I can't always be nice to people stating those who say "Bush is not a good president" are stupid. It's not the opinion one may have, it's the way one supports it, and insulting others is certainly wrong, but lately spreading around, sadly.

There's nothing staff can do, people have freedom of speech (to a certain extent), but there still should be an etiquette for everyone, implied or expressed.

Well now that the chat logs have been posted for the chat with me I would like to clear things up.

First of all that wasn't the first time I was on. The first time I was on, I had been banned and I said hello and I just got flamed at from everyone for being baned o_O

Irc has changed since and I return once in a while. And I am respected. Things change.

@ admins: I wasn't saying I didn't get banned for a reason. Its the fact of privacy. If you ban me, only I and other admins/mods should know the reason. The fact is that when mnjul posted that he was going to ban me, it only went up for flaming at me. I deleted the thread before anything bad happened. And the fact that it was "possible" that I had been banned for asking to be a beta tester, which I never did  would mean that this privacy was no longer existent and that you couldn't keep anything to yourself.

I don't care about the past. I am merely stating examples of things that "could" be improved. I know that it isn't always the fact for everyone. Some things are member speicific.

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We make or break these forums, together

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quote:

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Originally posted by lou_habs
Well now that the chat logs have been posted for the chat with me I would like to clear things up.

First of all that wasn't the first time I was on. The first time I was on, I had been banned and I said hello and I just got flamed at from everyone for being baned o_O

Irc has changed since and I return once in a while. And I am respected. Things change

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In addition to segosa's posts:

Line 22865/848457

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05.16.05|16.16.11 * Joins: lou_habs (~msgplus@7482607.9BC948AB.144034AB.IP)
05.16.05|16.16.19 <%BEWARE^^> nanananananana
05.16.05|16.16.45 <lou_habs> menthinx?
05.16.05|16.16.53 <+ShawnZ> Menthinks.
05.16.05|16.16.55 <%BEWARE^^> whats with MenthiX
05.16.05|16.17.08 <lou_habs> lol
05.16.05|16.17.27 <lou_habs> hey who here would be kind enough to make me a logo/banner for my sITE?
05.16.05|16.17.37 <+ShawnZ> ¬¬ @ activetrek
05.16.05|16.17.45 <%BEWARE^^> www.gtmf.us
05.16.05|16.17.52 * Quits: @wacky (wax@0wnz.j00) (Quit: cya kids)
05.16.05|16.18.14 <lou_habs> lmao
05.16.05|16.18.21 * Joins: Peri (Peri@Ping.Pong)
05.16.05|16.19.15 <@DXtremz> vacuumo, columbia has something right too
05.16.05|16.19.33 <lou_habs> ya but seriously....
05.16.05|16.19.39 <lou_habs> can anyone help?
05.16.05|16.19.50 <@DXtremz> Noes
05.16.05|16.19.51 <+ShawnZ> DX: and China ¬¬
05.16.05|16.20.09 <@DXtremz> :\
05.16.05|16.20.29 <lou_habs> can anyone tell me how to make myself a good looking one?
05.16.05|16.20.40 <+ShawnZ> get Photoshop, and...
05.16.05|16.20.42 <+ShawnZ> make one.
05.16.05|16.20.46 <+ShawnZ> or better
05.16.05|16.20.48 <+ShawnZ> microsoft paint.
05.16.05|16.20.49 <%BEWARE^^> lmao
05.16.05|16.21.29 <lou_habs> lmao yeah right
05.16.05|16.21.39 <+ShawnZ> wasnt a joke.
05.16.05|16.21.57 <lou_habs> haha
05.16.05|16.22.06 <+ShawnZ> no really
05.16.05|16.22.12 <+ShawnZ> that wasnt a joke.
05.16.05|16.22.20 <lou_habs> microsoft paint..if everyone made their logos there the net would sure be ugly...unless sum ppl are great
05.16.05|16.23.51 <lou_habs> so u say photoshop?
05.16.05|16.24.34 <lou_habs> ?
05.16.05|16.24.37 <+ShawnZ> no
05.16.05|16.24.37 <lou_habs> ?
05.16.05|16.24.44 <%BEWARE^^> ShawnZ with microsoft paint it sucks cock man

05.16.05|16.24.45 <+ShawnZ> microsoft paint, i siad.
05.16.05|16.24.49 <lou_habs> then wut besides mspaint
05.16.05|16.24.51 <%BEWARE^^> thats not gonna work
05.16.05|16.24.55 <+ShawnZ> yes it would
05.16.05|16.25.06 <+ShawnZ> tis super easy to make good logos in paint.
05.16.05|16.25.07 <%BEWARE^^> no it would not
05.16.05|16.25.07 <lou_habs> I know ms paint aint gonna work no offense but I cant get anything good outta that one
05.16.05|16.25.10 <%BEWARE^^> no it would not
05.16.05|16.25.16 <%BEWARE^^> ShawnZ with microsoft paint it sucks cock man
05.16.05|16.25.17 <+ShawnZ> What the fuck
05.16.05|16.25.21 <%BEWARE^^> like i said
05.16.05|16.25.24 <lou_habs> then wut besides mspaint?
05.16.05|16.25.24 <+ShawnZ> then you just suck at life
05.16.05|16.25.27 <lou_habs> then wut besides mspaint?
05.16.05|16.25.32 <+ShawnZ> Dont ask me
05.16.05|16.25.36 <+ShawnZ> mspaint > *
05.16.05|16.25.41 <lou_habs> whoa peeps dont argue over this Im just saying I dont like mspaint
05.16.05|16.25.43 <%BEWARE^^> 04(ShawnZ04): you suck my cock fisrt biatch
05.16.05|16.25.57 <%BEWARE^^> first*
05.16.05|16.26.13 <lou_habs> WHOA
05.16.05|16.26.16 <lou_habs> calm it plz boys
05.16.05|16.26.19 <%BEWARE^^> brb
05.16.05|16.26.21 <%BEWARE^^> no
05.16.05|16.26.27 <%BEWARE^^>
05.16.05|16.26.31 <%BEWARE^^> iwont
05.16.05|16.27.12 <lou_habs> well how can I make sumthing good looking with mspaint?
05.16.05|16.27.23 <Dreth> It's easy
05.16.05|16.27.31 <Dreth> You need intelligence and creativity.
05.16.05|16.27.58 <lou_habs> ok I got the program
05.16.05|16.27.59 <lou_habs> lol
05.16.05|16.28.37 <Dreth> Okay you don't posses either...
05.16.05|16.28.39 <Dreth> I'm done.
05.16.05|16.29.24 <lou_habs> well is photoshop good> lol
05.16.05|16.29.54 <Dreth> Yes, as long you know how to use it.
05.16.05|16.30.04 <Dreth> Which I doubt you do.
05.16.05|16.30.39 <lou_habs> Well I USED to have it
05.16.05|16.30.46 * Quits: musicalmidget (~spam@musicalmidget.users.msgplus.net) (Quit: Nighty)
05.16.05|16.31.10 <Dreth> Then why do you ask me if it's good or not
05.16.05|16.31.28 <lou_habs> well I never made a logo with it
05.16.05|16.31.40 <lou_habs> lol
05.16.05|16.32.15 * Joins: dandin1 (~dandin1@MsgPlus-6CD6F021.sympatico.ca)
05.16.05|16.33.33 * Quits: Peri (Peri@Ping.Pong) (Ping timeout)
05.16.05|16.33.59 <Dreth> lou_habs Hmm... don't talk to me, again, thanks.
05.16.05|16.34.15 <lou_habs> wtf?
05.16.05|16.34.58 <+ShawnZ> i think he means
05.16.05|16.35.05 <+ShawnZ> 'it doesnt matter WHAT you make, youve used it.'
05.16.05|16.35.09 * Joins: Peri (Peri@Ping.Pong)
05.16.05|16.35.54 <lou_habs> ok then.....
05.16.05|16.36.07 * lou_habs slaps himself around the bit with a large trout
05.16.05|16.36.11 * Quits: lou_habs (~msgplus@7482607.9BC948AB.144034AB.IP) (Quit: www.msgplus.net)

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06.13.05|14.40.55 * Joins: lou_habs (~msgplus@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca)

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Originally posted by fish

"Local" - Normal Moderators - are useless on a forum of this size because they need to be able to moderate the other forums as well. Adding new moderators isn't the solution to a spam problem either - we've discussed this too. Oh, and if you see this spam then do us a favour and report it! It will be dealt with!

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Originally posted by fish
3 strikes and you're out for a long time. As you'll see, toddy is now gone.

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Originally posted by fish

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Originally posted by XxRebelSeanxX
Testing & Trashing: I think there should be set guidelines on what is allowed to be posted there. The current posts and threads are 99% useless, but I know the forum is there for people to spam. But when people go in topics and just go "HI" or  post one emoticon, it gets annoying, examples are there you just have to look.

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Indeed.

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The forum is coming apart, some things do annoy me, there was a thread about mippo today but since i've joined i've never seen him, not flaming anyone it's just an example.

Also the pointess spammy threads are getting too often, no offence to omar, just an example, but his a huge spammer in this community and does'nt help must however is great in the spanish forums So some people are liked for not doing things on this forum.

Also people who have reps like 8 with no posts becuase they are on irc etc.

Just some things that tic me off, not trying to flame or judge certain people

Thanks again.

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Originally posted by XxRebelSeanxX
Especialy with ShawnZ trying to exploit the board

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Originally posted by Absorbation
The forum is coming apart, some things do annoy me, there was a thread about mippo today but since i've joined i've never seen him, not flaming anyone it's just an example.

Also people who have reps like 8 with no posts becuase they are on irc etc.

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Originally posted by XxRebelSeanxX

quote:

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Originally posted by fish

"Local" - Normal Moderators - are useless on a forum of this size because they need to be able to moderate the other forums as well. Adding new moderators isn't the solution to a spam problem either - we've discussed this too. Oh, and if you see this spam then do us a favour and report it! It will be dealt with!

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Er, the point in Local Moderators is to moderate CERTAIN forums, not to be able to moderate them all. That is what Super Moderators are for. My point being, if you add locals it will still cut down on the amount of reported posts we report daily, and it would reduce spam in the long run, IMHO.

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