Computer auto shuts down randomly - Printable Version
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Computer auto shuts down randomly by jordanspringer on 04-14-2006 at 01:45 AM
My friend has a computer that whenever she either runs too many applications on her computer, or just lets it sit there, in a while it just auto shuts off, without any warning, without any blue screen. occasionally when the computer turns back on it sometimes gives the "your computer has recoverd from a serious error" message. this problem used to happen about once a day, but now its more like every 15minutes. we've tried reformatting and reinstalling windows. does anyone know what could be wrong? I'm thinking its RAM, or the CPU is overheating, but would there be anyway to check without having to go out and buy new RAM?
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Supersonicdarky on 04-14-2006 at 01:57 AM
i think you're right, it is the cpu overheating
i had the same problem recently (pc died everytime i played cs) so i replaced cpu and mobo
but if u want an analasys, get a program that can measure cpu temp and see how high it gets (Speedfan?)
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by jordanspringer on 04-14-2006 at 02:20 AM
i was just talkign to her, shes not great at computers but informed me about an overclocking error message saying overclocking failed, and to press f2 to go into setup. this error msg was in the system bios, so i'm guessing i'm gonna have to fiddle around with the bios settings to somehow turn overclocking off, i hope its as easy as it sounds
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by MattyRid on 04-14-2006 at 02:41 AM
One thing I would do is somehow get over there, take the CPU apart and give it a really good clean with a brush. I had a friend with a similar problem and you'll be surprised how much that can help. after all dust build up can also be a factor in a CPU overheating.
RE: RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-14-2006 at 05:18 AM
quote:What he said
Originally posted by TheItalianStallion
One thing I would do is somehow get over there, take the CPU apart and give it a really good clean with a brush. I had a friend with a similar problem and you'll be surprised how much that can help. after all dust build up can also be a factor in a CPU overheating.
.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-14-2006 at 05:25 AM
i just installed the speed fan, as my computer is experiancing the same things in a way,
but whats the ideal CPU temp?
also i think my CPU is running hot is there any way to bring that down?
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-14-2006 at 05:53 AM
Ideal CPU temperature is - 273° C.
Realistic CPU temperatures would be about 25° C to 35° C idle, and 40° C to 55° C under load. Though CPUs are rated to have an operating temperature of a lot higher.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Adeptus on 04-14-2006 at 05:55 AM
quote:If "shuts off" = turns off and stays off until the power button is pressed to turn it on again, then the first suspect should be the power supply. It would be unusual for any other component to cause that without the power supply already being pushed to the edge.
Originally posted by jordanspringer
in a while it just auto shuts off, without any warning, without any blue screen. occasionally when the computer turns back on it sometimes gives the "your computer has recoverd from a serious error" message
You can first try to blow out all the dust with a can of compressed air and visually confirm the power supply fan is spinning. However, you will probably end up replacing it and I would do so before wasting too much time trying other things.
On the other hand, if "shuts off" = rebooting, there are other possibilities.
In virtually every case where I've ran into random reboots without ever getting a blue screen, the ultimate culprit has been CPU cache failure (sometimes a temporary condition due to the CPU overheating). Bad RAM more often seems to result in a mixture of blue screens and "application has performed an illegal instruction" type soft errors. However, if the computer is running Windows XP, make sure it isn't set up to restart automatically on blue screens (read this).
As far as CPU overheating on a computer that used to work fine -- it should be sufficient to blow out all the dust and inspect the computer running with the cover removed, to make sure the CPU fan and any motherboard chipset fans it might have are spinning and not stuck, no heatsinks have fallen off, and so forth. There really are no invisible cooling failures -- other than improper installation (that would've manifested itself right away when the computer was built).
If you still wish to measure the temperature, it is best to download a model-specific temperature monitor program from your motherboard manufacturer's website, but you can also try this. Remember that the CPU temperature can raise as much as +20C under load, so you should run something intensive while checking it (any 3D game would work well).
How hot is too hot? There's no simple answer (manufacturers only specify permanent failure point, not "your software starts to crash" point) and it depends on your CPU type, but anything over 60C under load would concern me. Older Intel processors (e.g. Northwood core P4) often stay under 45C with good cooling; for those even 60C could be considered high.
You can test both RAM and L1/L2 caches (by selectively disabling them for memory tests) with memtest86. Just burn the ISO and boot from the resulting CD.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-14-2006 at 06:00 AM
quote:alright, well then my CPU is idling at 53-56°C so obviously i need to do something, i do have a heatsink and a CPU fan, whats the next more cost efficent and effective way to get it to that 25-35°C idle range?
Originally posted by rav0
Realistic CPU temperatures would be about 25° C to 35° C idle, and 40° C to 55° C under load. Though CPUs are rated to have an operating temperature of a lot higher.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Adeptus on 04-14-2006 at 06:11 AM
quote:Do you have a second temperature reading available, usually called "ambient" or "motherboard" temperature? If so, what is it?
Originally posted by NiteMare
alright, well then my CPU is idling at 53-56°C so obviously i need to do something, i do have a heatsink and a CPU fan, whats the next more cost efficent and effective way to get it to that 25-35°C idle range?
Most boards have a sensor somewhere on the board, which reports (roughly) the air temperature inside the case. Since air cooling can't make anything colder than the surrounding air temperature, it says a lot about where your cooling weak point is.
If both CPU and ambient temperatures are high, then the problem is weak airflow in the case and you should consider adding case fans where possible, or getting a better case.
If the ambient temperature is reasonable (less than 10C above what you'd guess your room temperature to be), but there is a large differential between it and the CPU temperature at idle, then your CPU heatsink/fan isn't doing a very good job. It may be installed incorrectly, or you just may need a more effective one.
P.S. Keep in mind most numbers you will see quoted are based on 20C- 22C room temperature. If yours is higher, the temperatures inside your computer will be higher, too. That doesn't make it ok and good for the computer, but is important to consider when you are trying to determine why it's running so hot.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-14-2006 at 06:20 AM
quote:i have no idea, i'm using speed fan, it only tells me temp1, temp2, and temp3, temp 2 being my CPU, because that changes, when i'm underload, and when i'm idleing
Originally posted by Adeptus
Do you have a second temperature reading available, usually called "ambient" or "motherboard" temperature? If so, what is it?
quote:
Originally posted by Adeptus
If both CPU and ambient temperatures are high, then the problem is weak airflow in the case and you should consider adding case fans where possible, or getting a better case.
would keeping the side face panel off my case be a good or bad cooling idea?
RE: RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-14-2006 at 07:04 AM
quote:What do the rest of the temperatures actually say?
Originally posted by NiteMarequote:i have no idea, i'm using speed fan, it only tells me temp1, temp2, and temp3, temp 2 being my CPU, because that changes, when i'm underload, and when i'm idleing
Originally posted by Adeptus
Do you have a second temperature reading available, usually called "ambient" or "motherboard" temperature? If so, what is it?
quote:Good idea generally, though make sure that your computer is safe (nothing will hit it or fall on/into it).
Originally posted by NiteMare
would keeping the side face panel off my case be a good or bad cooling idea?
RE: RE: RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-14-2006 at 07:15 AM
quote:i just finished a game so i'll let my computer idle a bit then post a screen shot
Originally posted by rav0
quote:What do the rest of the temperatures actually say?
Originally posted by NiteMarequote:i have no idea, i'm using speed fan, it only tells me temp1, temp2, and temp3, temp 2 being my CPU, because that changes, when i'm underload, and when i'm idleing
Originally posted by Adeptus
Do you have a second temperature reading available, usually called "ambient" or "motherboard" temperature? If so, what is it?
Edit:
quote:already done, its under my desk
Originally posted by rav0
quote:Good idea generally, though make sure that your computer is safe (nothing will hit it or fall on/into it).
Originally posted by NiteMare
would keeping the side face panel off my case be a good or bad cooling idea?
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Adeptus on 04-14-2006 at 07:24 AM
quote:It can go either way. Try it and see. The ventilation design in a typical desktop PC is very primitive and there it would usually help.
Originally posted by NiteMare
would keeping the side face panel off my case be a good or bad cooling idea?
In case of more advanced designs, where the air flow is carefully channeled to the right places, it can hurt -- most high end server hardware, particularly tightly packed rack mount systems, come with warning labels to never operate it with covers removed.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-14-2006 at 07:32 AM
quote:yeah, thats what i was worryed about, i can't really tell if mines good or not, i have it off right now, i'll check it again later with teh case closed
Originally posted by Adeptus
In case of more advanced designs, where the air flow is carefully channeled to the right places, it can hurt -- most high end server hardware, particularly tightly packed rack mount systems, come with warning labels to never operate it with covers removed.
btyw the screen yis posted above
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-14-2006 at 07:45 AM
Well the're likely to some of these:
- power supply unit
- cpu
- case (mobo)
However, not necessarily. My computer has three (I think) sensors, there is a CPU reading, a case reading, but also a meter which will continuously say 25° C, I don't know why. My computer has no reading for power supply.
In your screenshot, Temp3 is more than Temp2 by just a bit, and could just be an error. Generally, the hihest temp is CPU but a difference of just 1 degree could be an error anyway.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-14-2006 at 07:48 AM
quote:just a coincedince, temp3 doesn't change more then a degree temp 2 can get up to 70C depending on my CPU usage
Originally posted by rav0
In your screenshot, Temp3 is more than Temp2 by just a bit, and could just be an error. Generally, the hihest temp is CPU but a difference of just 1 degree could be an error anyway.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Adeptus on 04-14-2006 at 08:09 AM
I tried SpeedFan here and compared the results to Asus Probe (I have an Asus P4C800DX motherboard).
All the numbers match up and SpeedFan's "Temp1" on my system is ambient temperature and "Temp2" is CPU. "Temp3" here shows a negative number, it's obviously not connected (Asus' own utility only shows two temperatures).
However, a little bit of Googling suggests that the numbers match up differently for other people. There are claims of "Temp1" and "Temp3" being the CPU temperatures on some other boards.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Apatik on 04-14-2006 at 08:56 PM
opening your case also means more dust entering it ;p
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Reaper on 04-14-2006 at 08:59 PM
installing a fan or 2 can help a lot. not cpu fans but just general fans, i found help a lot
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Nathan on 04-14-2006 at 09:04 PM
Get a fan and put it the way so it draws out heat instead of blowing in 
put it on your case(most have a fan holder)
RE: RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-15-2006 at 02:23 AM
quote:Not actually.
Originally posted by Apatik
opening your case also means more dust entering it ;p
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Unwritten Law on 04-15-2006 at 02:35 AM
you might have a virus it happened when i had a virus my uncle had to delte it thank god
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by [MR] on 04-15-2006 at 03:27 AM
quote:You can get that pressurized air spray to clean out the dust....which i still am needing to do
Originally posted by Apatik
opening your case also means more dust entering it ;p
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-15-2006 at 03:45 AM
quote:actualy no, in my case, i've been able to conferm that its my cpu over heating, when every my CPU goes over 70C, it crashes
Originally posted by Unwritten Law
you might have a virus it happened when i had a virus my uncle had to delte it thank god
now, for cooling options, i have 2 ideas, tell me if it will work:
1. get this type of gel or paste or something the you put between the CPU and heat sink, don't know what it is, but i heard it works
2. get a liquid cooled system for the CPU?
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by ddunk on 04-15-2006 at 04:10 AM
Let's see:
Ultra Silver Thermal Compound (1.0g)
$1.99
Thermaltake CL-W0005-01 BigWater SE Liquid Cooling System
$108 - $150
However, you might not need thermal gel at all. Are all your fans in good, working condition and clean?
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-15-2006 at 04:16 AM
i believe so, but it shouldn't hurt to apply teh thermal compound?
edit:
holy cow, i think you were abit off with teh $1.99
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?l...067746&catid=10652
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-15-2006 at 07:26 AM
Thermal paste is a decent idea, but won't bring your CPU temperatures plumeting down. Even without it, you should get decent temperatures.
Heatsinks don't just wear out, and fans will, after a long, long time, when they just stop working. So, your computer should be running at the same temperatures that it has always. Since it's running hot, there is a problem.
Take off the heatsink and fan and put them back on. Clean the dust from them while they're off. I'd say that dust buildup on the heatsink over time has slowly being increasing your CPU temperatures, but even if you've already cleaned it, take it off and put back on. Also, if there is any bullshit (paste/pad) on the bottom of the heatsink, get rid of it.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-15-2006 at 07:39 AM
quote:any specific way to clean the heatsink?
Originally posted by rav0
Heatsinks don't just wear out, and fans will, after a long, long time, when they just stop working. So, your computer should be running at the same temperatures that it has always. Since it's running hot, there is a problem.
Take off the heatsink and fan and put them back on. Clean the dust from them while they're off. I'd say that dust buildup on the heatsink over time has slowly being increasing your CPU temperatures, but even if you've already cleaned it, take it off and put back on. Also, if there is any bullshit (paste/pad) on the bottom of the heatsink, get rid of it.
quote:like what?
Originally posted by rav0
Since it's running hot, there is a problem.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-15-2006 at 07:44 AM
Ideally, you'll have a high powered air compressor to clean the fins, and then use expensive Arctic Silver products to clean the base. Otherwise, just use a can of air or wash the heatsink, and then scrape any gunk off the bottom. Use a can of air, or just blow dust off the fan, or wipe it clean.
PS get rid of the dust while you're outside because it will go everywhere .
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-15-2006 at 07:50 AM
quote:i take it soap and water won't work?
Originally posted by rav0
Ideally, you'll have a high powered air compressor to clean the fins, and then use expensive Arctic Silver products to clean the base. Otherwise, just use a can of air or wash the heatsink, and then scrape any gunk off the bottom. Use a can of air, or just blow dust off the fan, or wipe it clean.
PS get rid of the dust while you're outside because it will go everywhere
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-15-2006 at 08:11 AM
Just water will get rid of dust from the top (fins). If the base has enything on it, it will need some work.
You could also buy a new heatsink/fan instead
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-15-2006 at 08:33 AM
ok so water won't damage it,good to know, would any cleaners/soaps damage it for the "gunk" on teh bottem, if there is any (haven't looked yet)
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-15-2006 at 08:47 AM
I don't think that anything will damage it. It's probably made of aluminium.
When I cleaned mine, I used a paper towel, and foil to work at it.
Know this though, mine isn't cleaned properly, it works fine, though it could be a lot cleaner. There is still a bit of adhesive from the thermal pad that was there, and the foil would have left behind some redidue as well. It looks pretty clean, but I know that it could be better.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-15-2006 at 08:50 AM
quote:if mine has a thermal pad, should i remove it to get the heat down or would that make it worse?
Originally posted by rav0
There is still a bit of adhesive from the thermal pad that was there, and the foil would have left behind some redidue as well. It looks pretty clean, but I know that it could be better
RE: RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-15-2006 at 08:58 AM
quote:When installing a heatsink, using a thermal pad may or may not improve head conduction (though I wouldn't use one).
Originally posted by NiteMare
quote:if mine has a thermal pad, should i remove it to get the heat down or would that make it worse?
Originally posted by rav0
There is still a bit of adhesive from the thermal pad that was there, and the foil would have left behind some redidue as well. It looks pretty clean, but I know that it could be better
If there is already a thermal pad there, when you find out, you will have taken the heatsink off already. Putting it back on with the thermal pad won't be very good, and it will be better to take the thermal pad off.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-15-2006 at 09:41 AM
quote:alright, then i assum replacing it with that thermal compound, as well as cleaning off any gunk on the cpu? (carefuly of course)
Originally posted by rav0
If there is already a thermal pad there, when you find out, you will have taken the heatsink off already. Putting it back on with the thermal pad won't be very good, and it will be better to take the thermal pad off.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-15-2006 at 09:51 AM
Well, if you're going to buy thermal paste, then you might as well buy some cleaner and clean your CPU and heatsink properly before installing it using paste.
RE: RE: RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Apatik on 04-15-2006 at 02:30 PM
quote:Yeah, right.
Originally posted by rav0
quote:Not actually.
Originally posted by Apatik
opening your case also means more dust entering it ;p
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Adeptus on 04-15-2006 at 04:25 PM
Thermal pads and grease are applied for one-time use. Whenever you replace the heatsink, you should clean it all off and re-apply it fresh.
Which implies you shouldn't take the heatsink off if you don't have fresh thermal compound to put back on it.
I've always used rubbing alcohol (isopropanol) for cleaning off the old gunk. You probably have some somewhere in the house already. If not, any drug store should have it.
It is easier to apply the new compound to the CPU. If your CPU has an exposed core, apply a thin and even layer to the top of the core only. If it has a metal heat spreader, coat evenly the entire surface. Less is more -- the thinner the layer of thermal compound, the better.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-15-2006 at 10:15 PM
You can just stick a tiny blob in the middle. When you install the heat sink on it, it will be spread out by itself. This way, you don't have to touch.
Remember also, like Adeptus said, less is more. Metal to metal contact is the best. The paste is just to fill tiny imperfections of the CPU surface to the heat sink.
You might also be able to get a brand new heat sink rather that buying thermal paste and/or cleaner.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-15-2006 at 10:18 PM
quote:i was thinking abotu that, are some heat sinks better then others?
Originally posted by rav0
You might also be able to get a brand new heatsink rather that buying therml paste and/or cleaner.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-15-2006 at 10:28 PM
They are. Aftermarket heatsinks are almost better that stock heatsinks (processors come with a HSF in the box).
The best heatsinks are expensive, and loud running. Quieter ones are still decent. The better ones are more for overclocking use.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-15-2006 at 10:32 PM
hmm, i'm thinking of just buying a new one now
RE: RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Apatik on 04-15-2006 at 11:15 PM
quote:Yeah, right, that must be the reason everybody use thermal compound '-_-
Originally posted by rav0
Remember also, like Adeptus said, less is more. Metal to metal comtact is the best.
And a loud fan doesn't necessarily mean efficient cooling.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-15-2006 at 11:37 PM
quote:i've been looking in to a few chipset colling systems, and if they work as good as they look then it should help
Originally posted by Apatik
Yeah, right, that must be the reason everybody use thermal compound '-_-
And a loud fan doesn't necessarily mean efficient cooling.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Apatik on 04-16-2006 at 12:32 AM
"chipset" coolers? do you mean CPU coolers? because i don't really see the point in adding/replacing a cooler on your chipset(s) (by chipset I mean northbridge/southbridge).
when it comes to air cooling for CPUs, Thermalright is definitely worth considering.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-16-2006 at 12:36 AM
quote:to be honest i can't remember, my pc froze and shut down, before i should get a good look, but they looked like CPU coolers
Originally posted by Apatik
chipset" coolers? do you mean CPU coolers? because i don't really see the point in adding/replacing a cooler on your chipset(s) (by chipset I mean northbridge/southbridge).
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Apatik on 04-16-2006 at 01:09 AM
chipset coolers are really small... to fit on a chipset and because chipsets don't need as much cooling as CPUs.
RE: RE: RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-16-2006 at 12:25 PM
quote:Metal to metal contact is best. No sarcasm, just facts.
Originally posted by Apatik
quote:Yeah, right, that must be the reason everybody use thermal compound '-_-
Originally posted by rav0
Remember also, like Adeptus said, less is more. Metal to metal comtact is the best.
And a loud fan doesn't necessarily mean efficient cooling.
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Apatik on 04-16-2006 at 12:59 PM
to me, it's just nonsense to say that about CPU cooling, but well...
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Veggie on 04-16-2006 at 01:03 PM
where is you computer? under a desk somewhere with poor airflow?
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by NiteMare on 04-16-2006 at 01:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Veggie
where is you computer? under a desk somewhere with poor airflow?
, yes its right under my desk its the only place i can fit it, my desk is up agesnt the wall on teh leftand the door opens to the right of my desk
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by Adeptus on 04-16-2006 at 05:56 PM
quote:
Originally posted by rav0
Metal to metal contact is best. No sarcasm, just facts.
quote:The reason for the use of thermal compound is because surfaces (the top of the CPU and the bottom of the heatsink) have imperfections. When imperfect surfaces are pressed against each other, the scratches and indentations remain filled with air. Air is a poor heat conductor, so that decreases the cooling efficiency.
Originally posted by Apatik
to me, it's just nonsense to say that about CPU cooling, but well...
Thermal compound is a soft paste, so it easily fills such microscopic cavities and gaps, and conducts heat much better than air (but not as well as metal).
That is why you want to use the thermal compound, but you only want to use the least possible amount.
RE: RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-16-2006 at 11:01 PM
quote:Does your desk have a back side? If the back is open, you could move the desk forward a bit (towards you), so that there is a gap between the wall and the desk. That's how I have my bench. It helped a bit, but now there is a hole that cables come up through, and a lot of air flows through there.
Originally posted by NiteMare
quote:
Originally posted by Veggie
where is you computer? under a desk somewhere with poor airflow?
Also move your computer forward (away from the wall), while leaving it under your desk. A space for air to move around a bit will help get rid of heat.
RE: RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by B3N_H4M1D on 04-19-2006 at 11:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by rav0
but also a meter which will continuously say 25° C, I don't know why. My computer has no reading for power supply.
mebe air temperature??
RE: Computer auto shuts down randomly by rav0 on 04-19-2006 at 11:36 PM
Use full sentences please, and read the whole post that you quoted from again. I'm not sure what your question is, but I think that the answer is in that post. If it's not, ask again (full sentences).