Hi everyone. First just want to congratulate Patchou on the new Messenger Plus! Live which i haven't actually used properly yet, because I am sticking with MSN Messenger 7.5/Plus! 3.6 until MS force me to update! (will explain why soon)

The thing is, I'm using the old version because I like my Stuffplug plugin with the ability to show open/closing of conversation windows. Before MSN 7 came out, I used to use Messenger Discovery for the same feature, and then when MSN 7 did come out, everyone said that the feature would no longer work or be reliable, hence it was removed from Messenger Discovery i believe. So I downloaded StuffPlug, and have never turned back, and I have never had a problem with it - it is quite reliable, it seems, at getting it right, and does indeed show me when someone opens a Window.

Now that the new WLM/Plus! Live is out, and with no more support for plugins like Stuffplug, is there any chance of someone writing an open/closed window notifier script for the new Live series? Because I know that the new StuffPlug 3 is coming out as a standalone application, but this feature is being removed as i'm sure you already know.

Lastly, sorry if i have posted something that's already covered elsewhere. I did have a brief search on the forum, but couldn't find what i was looking for so decided to post myself.

Thanks for any info

Alex

I would use a script like this. I know people say that it doesn't work but i used it and although sometimes it was wrong most of the times it was right.

why not just get MessengerDiscovery Live they have that on there for when they open/close/delete u/and more

http://live.msgdiscovery.net/

discovery still has many bugs and i didn't like it very much everytime i tried it before.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dark_Angel_Pt
discovery still has many bugs and i didn't like it very much everytime i tried it before.

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yea - cuz on the 2.1 version they had alot of probs - but its better now - up to u tho if u wan use it - would like to see a script made that will say when a contact removes u and like they said when a convo is open/closed

does it consume much memory bigb88?

10,000k - says for mem usage - but also they got alot of stuff in that program thats pretty good so yea

ok thanks. i still hope someone makes a scritp for the open/closed window notifier tough

yea same - would be better - but like this MLP is nice they removed most of the stuff ppl liked - and now im just waitin for the SP3 to be put out

I just wish the scripting API had events for packets coming in/out.

So you can parse them as a string and alter them if you need to.

OPEN/CLOSED WINDOW NOTIFIERS DO NOT WORK ANYMORE SINCE A LONG, VERY LONG, TIME NOW.



It has been explained countless times before on every Messenger related forum that they do not work and why they do not work. Anybody or any program which claims it works is absolutely wrong!!!!!!

There is NO, I repeat NO, unique identification anymore to know when a window was opened or closed. Since there is no unique identification anymore there is NO way in knowing if the notification you got was correct or not.

The reason why it was included back in StuffPlug was ONLY because people couldn't accept it didn't work anymore and kept on whining about it.

Such notifications are NOT reliable AT ALL...

PERIOD

If you study the protocol, you would know that they don't work anymore. So please stop asking about them.. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE, THEY DO NOT WORK...

Ok mate calm down...lighten up a bit.

But no need to shout at us because it clearly does work! As other people have stated, it is correct most of the time! I have even discovered this by asking people if they just opened a conversation window with me after seeing a notification - 9 times out of 10 they will say "yes!"

quote:

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Originally posted by bigb88
a script made that will say when a contact removes u

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He means in a toast I think... much like Messenger Discovery Live will do

quote:

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Originally posted by al2002
Ok mate calm down...lighten up a bit.

But no need to shout at us because it clearly does work! As other people have stated, it is correct most of the time! I have even discovered this by asking people if they just opened a conversation window with me after seeing a notification - 9 times out of 10 they will say "yes!"

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..if you sent somone a message asking if they opened thier window then surly thier gonna say yes becaue they had to open it to read your message...

quote:

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Originally posted by JonnyT
..if you sent somone a message asking if they opened thier window then surly thier gonna say yes becaue they had to open it to read your message...

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stuffplug worked almost bang on every time for me so yes it does work. if you think it doesnt thats you're opinion but if you say its 50%50% then it stillw orks don't it. so if it worked with stuff plug surely someonme can script it

quote:

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Originally posted by djnerve
stuffplug worked almost bang on every time for me so yes it does work. if you think it doesnt thats you're opinion but if you say its 50%50% then it stillw orks don't it. so if it worked with stuff plug surely someonme can script it

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well, i have to agree with both. it works, but its unreliable. but when uve had it for a while, u get to know which are real and which arent. especially the "closed convo" ones. that one is easy to tell if real. and almost always is real. i have a G15 keyboard, which has an lcd display, and ive set it up to tell me about WLM events. one of them is when someone opens or closes a window with me, and it does report false ones, but more often correct ones.
and its easy to know which ones should be ignored.

so what code did you use for it to tell if the window had been shut?

quote:

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Originally posted by djnerve
stuffplug worked almost bang on every time for me so yes it does work. if you think it doesnt thats you're opinion but if you say its 50%50% then it stillw orks don't it. so if it worked with stuff plug surely someonme can script it

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quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:

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Originally posted by djnerve
stuffplug worked almost bang on every time for me so yes it does work. if you think it doesnt thats you're opinion but if you say its 50%50% then it stillw orks don't it. so if it worked with stuff plug surely someonme can script it

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1) it is not an opinion. That is the whole point. What I state is a fact, not an opinion!

2) if such thing works 50/50, it does NOT work as you have NO way in knowing if the notification was correct or not. Roll a dice instead and if it is 3 or lower the user has opened a convo, if it is higher it was a fake notification <= that's how accurate it is; in other words it isn't... it's guessing...

3) It did NOT work with stuffplug either. Reread my post. Long time ago when MS fixed the whole so that such notification did work, it was removed from StuffPlug as it didn't worked anymore. Because many people couldn't accepted it didn't work anymore, TheBlasphamer simply added it back out of frustration of the many mails he got. But it didn't work anymore! Don't beleive me, search the forum for TheBlasphemer's post about this yourself

4) It has been stated many times on all Messenger-related sites that such notifiers do not work anymore. And on some sites it is also explained in much technical details why...


And you do not have to 'believe' me at all, do some research (and I mean proper research, not simply stating what others have stated or "testing" like asking your contacts as that is a seriously wrong test for this), study the protocol and read up on how such notifiers actually work...


Again, this is not an opinion or what I 'believe'... it is a FACT.

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It worked for me no problem. Some of the 'bla bla has closed the conversation window' messages were wrong (it disconnects conversations every so often).

So it CAN work but not always. My friends also have no bother with it.

If it doesn't work, explain how my friends ALWAYS know when I open a window?

well we have our opinion it worked most of the time for us. and it DID work because i had endless fun telling people they had closed the convosation.

i will have a look into what codes need to be used ect see if i can build it myself for the group of people requesting it.

There are already many threads about this... Search the forums and other forums before trying to claim you know how such stuff works...

IT DOES NOT WORK

...why my thread lower down about the open/closed window notifiers was closed?

Was it closed by the guy who refused to accept that it does actually work? Example - i've been online for hours tonight, and so far, 100% of the popups have been correct. Yes - 100%.

Of course, I know you're now going to go into a hissy fit telling me it doesn't work. But you should really calm down mate. And you should also look up the meaning of internet forums/message boards - i believe a definition would go along the lines of something like a place where people express ideas, opinions, and hold debate.

Well, usually CookieRevised is right about such things...

If you want to continue to debate, that's fine, but please try to keep it friendly.

ok nice one thank you! we can chat about the code

He may be right, but the fact is the majority here say they don't have a problem and would use a open/closed notifier - who cares if it's not accurate?

Also, i thought this thread was closed?

someone kindly opend it.

any advances on this? it isnt working so have a play

code:

---

function OnEvent_Initialize(MessengerStart)
{
}
function OnEvent_ContactListWndDestroyed(){
var Message = "Fine! Leave Then!";
Message = MsgPlus.RemoveFormatCodes(Message);
wnd.SendMessage("" + Message);
}
function OnEvent_Uninitialize(MessengerExit)
{
}

---

quote:

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Originally posted by al2002
He may be right, but the fact is the majority here say they don't have a problem and would use a open/closed notifier - who cares if it's not accurate?

Also, i thought this thread was closed?

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nomore bitching just lets make it

i suppose its fine if people wanna use a script even though its not 100% accurate, just give them a disclaimer that it doesnt always work, its up to them if they wanna use it

its not as if the script maker is shoving it down anyones throat, and i dont think it would be acceptable for people to complain that it doesnt work even after all the warnings that they were given about accuracy...

i'll support the development of the script... mainly because when i have it loaded it makes me feel like lots of people are thinking about me even if they dont.

close notifier is good for me cos i always used to leave open my windows and forget about them... at least when it used to say 'user has left the conversation' it makes me think about either continuing the convo or closing the window to clear up the desktop

Lol good point. Well like I said I'm still using MSN7/Plus3 so can't run any tests just yet, and also I don't really know how to code, so i'll leave that in everyone else's capable hands. Having said that I wish I could mess around with the code, so I should really learn

quote:

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any advances on this? it isnt working so have a play

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quote:

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Originally posted by al2002
And you should also look up the meaning of internet forums/message boards - i believe a definition would go along the lines of something like a place where people express ideas, opinions, and hold debate.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by djnerve
ok nice one thank you! we can chat about the code

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CookieRevised, are you saying that if someone opens a conversation with you, there's only a 50/50 chance that you'll get a notification about it?

posted the wrong code again sorry here we go

function OnEvent_Initialize(MessengerStart)
{
}
function OnEvent_ChatWndDestroyed( [object] ChatWnd );
var Message = "Fine! Leave Then!";
Message = MsgPlus.RemoveFormatCodes(Message);
wnd.SendMessage("test" + Message);
}
function OnEvent_Uninitialize(MessengerExit)
{
}

quote:

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Originally posted by djnerve
posted the wrong code again sorry here we go

function OnEvent_Initialize(MessengerStart)
{
}
function OnEvent_ChatWndDestroyed( [object] ChatWnd );
var Message = "Fine! Leave Then!";
Message = MsgPlus.RemoveFormatCodes(Message);
wnd.SendMessage("test" + Message);
}
function OnEvent_Uninitialize(MessengerExit)
{
}

---

quote:

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Originally posted by al2002
Lol good point. Well like I said I'm still using MSN7/Plus3 so can't run any tests just yet, and also I don't really know how to code, so i'll leave that in everyone else's capable hands. Having said that I wish I could mess around with the code, so I should really learn

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quote:

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There are no events for when your contact closes the conversation available through scripting, for this you need to access the messenger protocol directly.

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quote:

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Originally posted by segosa
CookieRevised, are you saying that if someone opens a conversation with you, there's only a 50/50 chance that you'll get a notification about it?

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yea i cant see how its possible now until their is a event for if the contact closes the chat.

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:

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Originally posted by segosa
CookieRevised, are you saying that if someone opens a conversation with you, there's only a 50/50 chance that you'll get a notification about it?

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I'm saying that if I get a notification it is only 50/50 (or whatever number of chance) that it is legit.

which I know you also perfectly know well

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That might be a use for it, but that does not mean that such notifiers actually work as in: "they still do what they are suspose to be doing"... because they don't.

This is the same old story as with the so called "block checkers". Block checkers do not work either (as everybody knows by now... I hope ), but they can be 'used' for checking if there is a chance that someone is online (you will never know for certain as a contact may be online while the "block checkers" report he is not).





----------------

And for all those others in this thread... Do some research instead of "debating" about this. All this stuff I've said is already known since MSN Messenger 7.0 was released a few years ago. Many threads have been posted about it, and not only on this Plus! forum, but on every other Messenger related forum in existance (almost). So, please go search and read them first.

Start here:
http://www.stuffplug.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=297
http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=60...d=657956#pid657956
http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=59974
http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=52372
http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=31865

Which includes posts of the creator of StuffPlug, posts of the creator of Messenger Plus!, posts of people who know the messenger protocol inside-out and other people who know what they are talking about....

I know I sound very harsh in this thread, but if it has to be repeated 5641564164 times that something does not work like you think it works, it gets very frustrating. Again, this is not my 'opinion', it is a fact, it is how the messenger protocol works, accept it....

quote:

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Originally posted by djnerve
yea i cant see how its possible now until their is a event for if the contact closes the chat.

---

we have never DOUBTED the FACT that you have stated that it does not always work cos of the 'ghost/fake popups/notifications'

but the pure ignorance shown by yourself that someone else might wish to use it for various personal reasons and your purely egomaniacal wish to have the end-all and be-all of posts is really insensitive to members of the forum

we all really appreciate your posts and input, but showing your pure frustration and attempts at manipulating of the discussions is unfortunate

you might see this as useless, but others dont. i think wars are useless... but thats just my opinion

i wounder if patchou would ever add it for us

I agree that it is in no way accurate, but you could sometimes pick out when it is actually someone opening a conversation and surprise them. I'vehad lots of fun doing that.

djnerve: Probably not.

It WOULD be possible to do this, but it would require a DLL which hooks onto WLM and then a script which calls functions from the DLL, AKA, a wrapper script, because the scripting syster doesn't have access to the protocol information.

Until someone, (if they ever do) makes it, MessengerDiscovery Live has this feature.

Cloudy

wow, CookieRevised, you need to read peoples posts more clearly.

"That might be a use for it, but that does not mean that such notifiers actually work as in: "they still do what they are suppose to be doing"... because they don't."

people have said that since post no.2!!!!

We all know its not 100%. we don't even mind if its 20%. Its not up to you to decide that this script is useless. If we want it, even if we know its not reliable, then we want it.
I use LCDStudio for my G15 keyboard lcd screen, and it shows when someone closes or opens a window, no idea how, check the site maybe, but it does. its not reliable, but when a contact closes the window, i get told. and its usually right. same for opening a window.
It tells me when someone has opened a window with me. sometimes its wrong, but sometimes its right, and it gives me some warning. Like segosa mentioned.

But you and your FACT crap is just stubbornness. We all know since the beginning that the FACT is that it doesn't work 100%, but you mustn't have read what everyone else said: "we don't care if its slightly unreliable, or even extremely unreliable, but from our experiences its good enough"

No one said it WORKS. we're just saying it is better than nothing. and u don't have to install it.

really though, i find your behaviour very immature and sad.

I'm sorry. its my opinion, and i don't mean to offend you at all. but from this thread i feel that way. i don't want to start a fight or anything, I'm just saying that your posts were not nice at all.

quote:

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Originally posted by whYeNQue
but the pure ignorance shown by yourself that someone else might wish to use it for various personal reasons and your purely egomaniacal wish to have the end-all and be-all of posts is really insensitive to members of the forum

we all really appreciate your posts and input, but showing your pure frustration and attempts at manipulating of the discussions is unfortunate

you might see this as useless, but others dont. i think wars are useless... but thats just my opinion

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
wow, CookieRevised, you need to read peoples posts more clearly.

"That might be a use for it, but that does not mean that such notifiers actually work as in: "they still do what they are suppose to be doing"... because they don't."

people have said that since post no.2!!!!

We all know its not 100%. we don't even mind if its 20%. Its not up to you to decide that this script is useless. If we want it, even if we know its not reliable, then we want it.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
But you and your FACT crap is just stubbornness.

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very untrue. YOU should reread your posts and those of others just before. EVERYONE stated that it works for them reliable enough for them to want it.
Your FACT is a FACT, but we already know that. No one has said other wise. No one has once said it works 100%. We all have experience of how it works now. and it works well enough

Let them go ahead, people will know what to think of them when they message them saying "Ha! i knew you opened a convo" and they were just browsing their files, pathetic

oh and by the way, i dont even mind if this doesnt get made. i was just commenting on CookieReviseds very silly behaviour.
And most people use it to know if someone is about to message them. and it works very well for that. no matter what you say, it does. almost always after it says a window was opened with me from so and so, he or she messages me shortly after.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
Your FACT is a FACT, but we already know that. No one has said other wise.

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if thats how you feel, ok. but you should reread over this thread and you'll see you are wrong. thats a FACT.
everyone replied to you saying it works well enough for them. that should have been enough. you then could have NICELY mentioned how the connect and disconnect is not reliable anymore and left it at that.

please calm down though. its no big deal. just people exchanging ideas.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
oh and by the way, i dont even mind if this doesnt get made. i was just commenting on CookieReviseds very silly behaviour.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
And most people use it to know if someone is about to message them. and it works very well for that. no matter what you say, it does.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
everyone replied to you saying it works well enough for them. that should have been enough. you then could have NICELY mentioned how the connect and disconnect is not reliable anymore and left it at that.

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TBH, not trying to be too blunt here... But does this discussion really have any relavance? It has just turned into flaming and there is no need for it.

Bottom line is, you both have differences in oppinion, and if it doesn't work what is the harm in someone making it anyway?

Cloudy

Okay cookie they're not going to believe you... they're ignorant so what.. you've explained yourself very very thoroughly... and everybody that's halfway smart that read your posts know that they do not work, and that they're unreliable so there isn't much of a chance that anybody will make anything anymore.

i know how it works. notifications can be sent when msn updates the DP, etc etc.

but i get it now!!!! its the EXACT WORDING! Youre one of those type of people.

even tho i said in a previous post or sentence that WE KNOW IT ISN'T reliable, you still pick the one sentence where i use the word know. I'm so sorry. ill rephrase

most people use it so that they have some warning that maybe someone has maybe opened a convo with them maybe. maybe.

and it works for me, maybe, most of the time. i know which are fake, cos the ones that are fake, don't end up with someone messaging me 2 seconds later.
But most of them are real. maybe.

This thread is completely pointless...

If someone says here "It works, I use it, so it works, think what you want" and I reply with "it does not work as it is unreliable and unreliable things simply do not work (if it did work, it would be 'reliable')" then I think that should have been clear enough....

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
i know how it works. notifications can be sent when msn updates the DP, etc etc.

but i get it now!!!! its the EXACT WORDING! Youre one of those type of people.

even tho i said in a previous post or sentence that WE KNOW IT ISN'T reliable, you still pick the one sentence where i use the word know. I'm so sorry. ill rephrase

most people use it so that they have some warning that maybe someone has maybe opened a convo with them maybe. maybe.

and it works for me, maybe, most of the time. i know which are fake, cos the ones that are fake, don't end up with someone messaging me 2 seconds later.
But most of them are real. maybe.

---

"This thread is completely pointless..."

i agree. ill stop. im sorry. i just felt CookieRevised was being very harsh. i see his point, but i felt he didnt see that of others.

On topic:
I doubt it will be made. it cant be done with scripts anyway, and i doubt anyone will want to make some external app for something that is not reliable.

Lets call it quits CookieRevised?

Ummm, MessengerDiscovery Live has this "feature" AFAIK.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
but i felt he didnt see that of others.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
Lets call it quits CookieRevised?

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quote:

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Originally posted by King Of Chaos
Ummm, MessengerDiscovery Live has this "feature" AFAIK.

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Yes Messenger Discovery does have this feature, ofcourse that program is on it's own. So people who like this feature support it.

I think that everyone should calm down, and not take things so seriously.

We all know that Window Open notifiers are NOT 100% reliable, but they DO work.

Can we agree here?

Alright... then the 2nd step is how people look at it.

As Cookie Revised stated, why use something like this if you have to manually check, some people who think like this don't bother with the program as simple as that.

But as Jiggs stated, some people do not really care whether the open notifier is reliable 100% of the time, because at CERTAIN times, it's BLATANTLY obvious a User has opened/closed a window with you. These type of people are just requesting if someone can help give them a script/plug-in to full fill this desire.

I hope I'm not stepping on some toes here, because the arguement is pretty clear
But in the end it boils down to people's preference. I dont think it should be right to take it away from people who are AWARE of the conditions invovled in using such a plug-in.

So without further questioning, is anyone willing to make an open/close notifier?

Thanks. I hope I'm not gonna start another 10 pages of flame war, just trying to be real here.

quote:

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Originally posted by jin11
But in the end it boils down to people's preference. I dont think it should be right to take it away from people who are AWARE of the conditions invovled in using such a plug-in.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jin11
So without further questioning, is anyone willing to make an open/close notifier?

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EDIT: i made mistakes. horrible mistakes!!!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
does anyone else not see how horrible CookeRevised is as a person? he gives me negative rep? after a normal argument? And i said earlier what a great communitiy this is.
obviosuly cookerevised isnt one of those great people.

ok, im out of here. of this thread i mean. i wont discuss or argue or give my opinion any more.
bye bye

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quote:

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* CookieRevised (116) - Last updated Yesterday at 23:57

Neutral: actually I don't agree (at this moment) with Voldemort... go figure...

* Voldemort (26) - Last updated Yesterday at 23:55

Negative: too damn stubborn, cant accept facts, replies rudely when he doesnt hear what he wants...

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quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevisited
you come a couple of posts to late.... reread thread....

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
he gives me negative rep?

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sorry CookieRevised. ive sent you a PM. i should check my rep b4 blaiming you. very sorry!!

i only saw the -1 when u told me to check rep. so i looked left and saw the red -1. i saw no more than that. i didnt click it. no neutral or evil valdemorts. i apologise. and i shall refrain from blaiming people. but you and i did just have a lengthy discussion, so when i saw the -1, i just figured it was you. wrongly. sorry

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
You might actually be interested in some of my previous posts (from back in the time the notifiers did worked)....
They aren't scripts, but you can't make this properly with a script anyways.

---

Cookie is absolutely right, as much as i would love to disagree
You should make it less tempting for people to argue with you Cookie, cause some people will do it endlessly and its not worth bothering with them.
Peace out people

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
sorry CookieRevised. ive sent you a PM. i should check my rep b4 blaiming you. very sorry!!

i only saw the -1. i saw no more than that. no neutral or evil vauldemorts. i apologise. and i shall refrain from blaiming people. but he and i did just have a lengthy discussion, so when i saw the -1, i just figured it was him. wrongly. sorry

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quote:

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Originally posted by jin11
(...) that Cookie Revised is trying to help clear matters up with individuals who claim this program works 100% when that is clearly not the case.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jin11

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
You might actually be interested in some of my previous posts (from back in the time the notifiers did worked)....
They aren't scripts, but you can't make this properly with a script anyways.

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Oh I see.

So that brings up this question, sorry if it's been answered but we are using this thread to discuss this matter.

Is it possible to create a plug-in or any other external application for this feature for the people who want it? For WLM and with MPLive!

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quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
OPEN/CLOSED WINDOW NOTIFIERS DO NOT WORK ANYMORE SINCE A LONG, VERY LONG, TIME NOW.

It has been explained countless times before on every Messenger related forum that they do not work and why they do not work. Anybody or any program which claims it works is absolutely wrong!!!!!!

There is NO, I repeat NO, unique identification anymore to know when a window was opened or closed. Since there is no unique identification anymore there is NO way in knowing if the notification you got was correct or not.

The reason why it was included back in StuffPlug was ONLY because people couldn't accept it didn't work anymore and kept on whining about it.

Such notifications are NOT reliable AT ALL...

PERIOD

If you study the protocol, you would know that they don't work anymore. So please stop asking about them.. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE, THEY DO NOT WORK...

---

I guess that people would be happy to have not a "Open window" convo but a "Did something or nothing that could include or not open the window" convo.
I bet a lot of this war would be over (but not all of it) by just changing the text to something like: "User as requested your DP"

Will there be a low level access (protocol messages) in the script engine?

One thing I noticed though. I added Billy Bones (Microsoft Game for messenger) and when I open his window, he speaks. Not always of course! So.. is microsoft using a Open Window notifier that has something extra that we don't have access?

quote:

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Originally posted by lysp
Although i havent studied the very latest protocol (13) i believe you are wrong. Open/close notifiers DO work.

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quote:

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Originally posted by lysp
When someone is idle for around 30 seconds it'll drop the connection. While its true it doesnt display a difference between a closed or dropped connection anymore, you can still estimate what happened due to timing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by lysp
So in conclusion it DOES work, and if you dont rely on it 100% due to the irregularities i mentioned above then its fine.

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Alright, thank god this thread is finally turning into a smart discussion. CookiesRevised thanks for those links, I'm looking through them. I have this program, which works with MSN Messenger 7.5 (not 100%) though.

It was a plug-in for Msg Plus! so what I want to ask is, if this program can be redone for Windows Live Messenger? Is their a possibility?

I know the guy who wrote this program probably isn't even available now, so I'm guessing someone else with the experience or knowledge would have to make something similar to this. But this was one of the best plug-in's in the past.

Again, thanks for the help.

And to everyone else that might mistaken this, these plug-in's DO NOT WORK 100% USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Please UNDERSTAND that. Thank you.

Admin edit: attachment removed (UPX v12_m5 - probably a variant of Win32/PSW.VB.HSREDIS trojan)

So let's get this straight, the whole thread has been a flamewar because when people said notifiers work, they actually meant that they will always get a notification if someone opens or closes the chat window, ignoring the fact that you may get incorrect ones too. And CookieRevised believed that when people said it worked, they meant that it was always 100% accurate?

Human communication sucks.

* segosa blames English.

quote:

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Originally posted by segosa
So let's get this straight, the whole thread has been a flamewar because when people said notifiers work, they actually meant that they will always get a notification if someone opens or closes the chat window, ignoring the fact that you may get incorrect ones too.

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quote:

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Originally posted by segosa
And CookieRevised believed that when people said it worked, they meant that it was always 100% accurate?

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quote:

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Originally posted by segosa

Human communication sucks.

* segosa blames English.

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quote:

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Originally posted by upsfeup
One thing I noticed though. I added Billy Bones (Microsoft Game for messenger) and when I open his window, he speaks. Not always of course! So.. is microsoft using a Open Window notifier that has something extra that we don't have access?

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Billy Bones has a DP.
I heard that theory before but is was also inconclusive. I suspect that request is made anyway but with a reply of "NO DP". In login that information migh be send.. but eventualy it has to ask again as it might be updated.

I'll search for the protocol. version 14 right?

After having a nice laugh I just want to say one thing. If someone does create a script/plugin which warns the user when a conversation to them has been opened or closed, can you please add a little dialog describing the problems accompanied with it when it is installed.

Nothing too long. Just mention "it is not reliable etc, here are some dot points and a link telling you why". As a moderator on the StuffPlug forum, I am still seeing people reporting the 'errors' in these two features being reported in the bug tracker and other forums.

Very annoying. Which is why we've stopped all posting regarding it.

Im gonna try to help Cookie out a bit

quote:

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Originally posted by al2002
Ok mate calm down...lighten up a bit.

But no need to shout at us because it clearly does work! As other people have stated, it is correct most of the time! I have even discovered this by asking people if they just opened a conversation window with me after seeing a notification - 9 times out of 10 they will say "yes!"

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quote:

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Originally posted by djnerve
stuffplug worked almost bang on every time for me so yes it does work. if you think it doesnt thats you're opinion but if you say its 50%50% then it stillw orks don't it. so if it worked with stuff plug surely someonme can script it

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quote:

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Originally posted by Antz
It worked for me no problem. Some of the 'bla bla has closed the conversation window' messages were wrong (it disconnects conversations every so often).

So it CAN work but not always. My friends also have no bother with it.

If it doesn't work, explain how my friends ALWAYS know when I open a window?

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quote:

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Originally posted by al2002
And your points stop someone making a script for this feature because......?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jellings
I'd use one, i wouldn't really care if it wasn't 100% accurate, even if it's only 50% accurate that's better than nothing. i'd make one for ya if i knew how, unfortunatly i don't know how.

@cookierevised: you opinion is not law, this topic should have never been closed, stop shouting and calm down, you're acting like my sister when she doesn't get her own way - someone might want to make a notifier for the 50% change of it working..

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quote:

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Originally posted by djnerve
i wounder if patchou would ever add it for us

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quote:

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Originally posted by cloudhunter
djnerve: Probably not.

It WOULD be possible to do this, but it would require a DLL which hooks onto WLM and then a script which calls functions from the DLL, AKA, a wrapper script, because the scripting syster doesn't have access to the protocol information.

Until someone, (if they ever do) makes it, MessengerDiscovery Live has this feature.

Cloudy

---

reread the thread. you'll see its now accepted that it does work well enough for most people to be happy and should come with a disclaimer.

if you are in an aeroplane, and it tells you you're too close to the ground, but you know it gives that message if ur too close to ground, but also if a rain cloud is under you and you cant see, do you pull up anyway? yes. cos its possible it is you being too close to the ground. if its you close to a cloud, doesn't matter.

and i mean that example in free airspace. so no danger of pulling up by accident in a false message.

point is, it does send out a message if a window is opened with you. its not as bad as you make it sound. like a PC with nothing in it.
it works, but it also gives u the messages for any connection made to ur contacts.
that's all these people want. they know that, and are happy with that bit or unreliability.

new FACT we all accept now, is that it technically does work, but is unreliable to the point that no one thinks it should be released without some warning.

Don't aeroplanes have altitude monitors anyways

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
reread the thread. you'll see its now accepted that it does work well enough for most people to be happy and should come with a disclaimer.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Jiggs

new FACT we all accept now, is that it technically does work, but is unreliable to the point that no one thinks it should be released.

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why so unfriendly?!
let someone else decide if they will make it or not. in silence. until they decide to release it or want to talk constructively about it.
it works well enough. "period". as said by many here.

even CookieRevised sees the use that some want out of it now.

now, can we stop arguing about how well it works etc?
Just let the topic die if no one wants to make it, or if someone has a brain wave or decides to make it with its current level of unreliability (which many are OK with) then add constructive help.

quote:

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Read my reply to al2002.

If you really want something that doesnt work, make it yourself. Im sure if you research and learn about Messenger, you could make it yourself.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by djnerve

quote:

---

Read my reply to al2002.

If you really want something that doesnt work, make it yourself. Im sure if you research and learn about Messenger, you could make it yourself.

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I already started making it if you looked. no fcuk off and leave us to play. if u think u have the brains use them sumwere else

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damn all u ppl are still goin on about this lol

quote:

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Originally posted by bigb88
damn all u ppl are still goin on about this lol

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Lol yeah, what on earth have I started

lol - everyone makin a big deal outta this - should of just closed da thread - MLP has this new chat thing - for when someone clicks ya name and starts typin use that lol just will not know when they close da convo - like damn ppl fightin over a ? - pretty damn sad

Why not just change the text from "Users has opened a conversation" to "Connection established with User"
And the "User has closed your window" to "Connection lost with user"

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
if you are in an aeroplane, and it tells you you're too close to the ground, but you know it gives that message if ur too close to ground, but also if a rain cloud is under you and you cant see, do you pull up anyway? yes. cos its possible it is you being too close to the ground. if its you close to a cloud, doesn't matter

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
even CookieRevised sees the use that some want out of it now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
Just let the topic die if no one wants to make it, or if someone has a brain wave or decides to make it with its current level of unreliability (which many are OK with) then add constructive help.

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OK, then lets say you know it doesn't work, its ur aeroplane, ur poor, and its all u can afford and u pull up every time, cos the one time u didn't u crashed and lost all ur limbs?

no need to take things so literally!!!! I'm only saying how having it is better than nothing for at least some users here. so let people do what they want. no one is forcing anyone to use it.
please!!!!!!! can we all stop arguing about how it does and doesn't work and just let the topic be about making it, or let it die.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
OK, then lets say you know it doesn't work, its ur aeroplane, ur poor, and its all u can afford and u pull up every time, cos the one time u didn't u crashed and lost all ur limbs?

no need to take things so literally!!!! I'm only saying how having it is better than nothing for at least some users here. so let people do what they want. no one is forcing anyone to use it.
please!!!!!!! can we all stop arguing about how it does and doesn't work and just let the topic be about making it, or let it die.

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man just end it all if they make it they make it - if they dont - just use MessengerDiscoveryLive so they can stop getin pissed that ppl are askin for this

quote:

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Originally posted by DeLaVega
Why not just change the text from "Users has opened a conversation" to "Connection established with User"
And the "User has closed your window" to "Connection lost with user"

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Jiggs
I'm only saying how having it is better than nothing for at least some users here. so let people do what they want. no one is forcing anyone to use it.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by djnerve
I already started making it if you looked. no fcuk off and leave us to play. if u think u have the brains use them sumwere else

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quote:

---

Originally posted by bigb88
lol - everyone makin a big deal outta this - should of just closed da thread - MLP has this new chat thing - for when someone clicks ya name and starts typin use that lol just will not know when they close da convo - like damn ppl fightin over a ? - pretty damn sad

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It did work most of the time in the versions before, but as I know, protocol is, again, changed with WLM, so maybe it restricts that even more.

quote:

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Originally posted by al2002
Agreed, some people here are taking this whole thing just a bit too seriously. Lighten up, it's not like we're talking about making a commercial product ffs!

---

Start in the StuffPlug forums. It was going crazy at one point. I got PMs from people stating they knew how to fix it.

It slowed down, now it is back.

oh god. fine. everyone. STOP. don't make or even think about it. CookieRevised says so.
Or, make it in secret and only share it with friends after stating very clearly how crap it is.

i cant stand this. its beyond ridiculous. CookieRevised, please just let them do their thing. Disassociate yourself with it, or be helpful. Don't constantly take peoples posts apart and post the same things uve said 100 times. THEY KNOW IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE IT USED TO. and if its made, I'm sure people will be told it only works partially. its not the end of the world

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:

---

Originally posted by al2002
Agreed, some people here are taking this whole thing just a bit too seriously. Lighten up, it's not like we're talking about making a commercial product ffs!

---

ermmm.. what you forget to see is that such 'notifiers' were used by thousands of people, all thinking they could see if a contact started to chat with them. If you suddenly claim they do work, you will soon notice that thousands will start to download the tool. In that sense it IS like a commercial product.

It is not because we are discussing this here with a handfull of people that nobody else is reading these threads or nobody else knows about the existance of such notifiers... Look on other forums and look in old threads back from the time when it was first announced that they didn't work anymore. I bet you would be surprised how serious this actually is. In fact, discussions like these have been held back then on almost all messenger related forums...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
I'm sure people will be told it only works partially. its not the end of the world

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
Disassociate yourself with it, or be helpful.

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quote:

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Originally posted by al2002
Why are you so concerned anyway?

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quote:

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Originally posted by al2002
When I used to come here, I generally found people helpful and friendly, but I'm guessing I'm not the only one annoyed by your arrogant attitude towards other posters.

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quote:

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Originally posted by lysp
Perhaps if we call it a "connection" notifier and not an "open/close" notifier then it will 100% work and be true to the definition.

If we define it as that then it will work and work as its name suggests.

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Perhaps if we call it a "connection" notifier and not an "open/close" notifier then it will 100% work and be true to the definition.

If we define it as that then it will work and work as its name suggests.

Jesum Crowe... Why not just leave it as "It doesn't work reliably" and leave it at that? Cookie, If they want to make it just let the babies make their cake. It wont be a feature of messenger plus, it would just be a feature of a script. Whether it works reliably or not, there is no harm in people making it. Let them knock theirselves out. I for one am getting fed up of all the flaming here, I wish a mod would kindly CLOSE this topic, no matter what people say because it is getting rediculous...

Cloudy

quote:

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Originally posted by cloudhunter
Jesum Crowe... Why not just leave it as "It doesn't work reliably" and leave it at that? Cookie, If they want to make it just let the babies make their cake. It wont be a feature of messenger plus, it would just be a feature of a script. Whether it works reliably or not, there is no harm in people making it. Let them knock theirselves out. I for one am getting fed up of all the flaming here, I wish a mod would kindly CLOSE this topic, no matter what people say because it is getting rediculous...

Cloudy

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Completely pointless thread indeed.

Excuse me, but I for one have no problem with this being created. I say go for it. So watch who you attack first. The message I put was just saying, if people wan't to create it they can.

So try not to alienate people on your side with an attitude? Thanks.

Cloudy

I was reading another thread that said it's done by packetsniffing the BYE and IRO command and not the api.
Something I don't get. Now the IRO command I don't know but the one you get before that, the RNG one. That's only an invite to join a switchboard session. I believe there is a session event in the msn api that speaks of this invite. The problem with this is that with an IRO you're sure that there is a connection while with the RNG you don't know if the connection failed or succeeded.

yep, but the command you can snif for, is also send when contacts view your DP, contact card, and that sort of stuff. Back in the time of MSN Messenger 6, the IRO command was only and exclusivly used when a contact opened a chatwindow (that is, it was also when the contact opened a connection, just as it is now. But now a connection is also made in other events, hence why you get false notifications and there is no difference to indicate if they are for a chat-connection or a DP-connection (so to speak)).

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
yep, but the command you can snif for, is also send when contacts view your DP, contact card, and that sort of stuff. Back in the time of MSN Messenger 6, the IRO command was only and exclusivly used when a contact opened a chatwindow (that is, it was also when the contact opened a connection, just as it is now. But now a connection is also made in other events, hence why you get false notifications and there is no difference to indicate if they are for a chat-connection or a DP-connection (so to speak)).

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quote:

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Originally posted by emeed
For the love of God and all that is holly. Shut up.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by emeed

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
yep, but the command you can snif for, is also send when contacts view your DP, contact card, and that sort of stuff. Back in the time of MSN Messenger 6, the IRO command was only and exclusivly used when a contact opened a chatwindow (that is, it was also when the contact opened a connection, just as it is now. But now a connection is also made in other events, hence why you get false notifications and there is no difference to indicate if they are for a chat-connection or a DP-connection (so to speak)).

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For the love of God and all that is holly. Shut up.

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quote:

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Originally posted by emeed
Edit: and I need to know why anyone would packetsniff if it was available through the api.

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quote:

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Originally posted by emeed
I also saw the itunes script in +live use an api call.

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quote:

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Originally posted by emeed
No it's not, it's the same thing over and over. Every thread, every post of you. The limits of those commands on that level have nothing to do with my problem.

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quote:

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Originally posted by emeed
I don't need to hear "it isn't reliable" with every post. It's already discussed and I want to move on.

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quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
and what is the problem? I simply explained in more detail the IRO and BYE commands. This is a support forum, I give support.

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quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
It isn't available thru the API. research your stuff before you shout to people to shut up.... thank you...

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quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Originally posted by emeed
I also saw the itunes script in +live use an api call.

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Can someone post up the script for the old msn 7.5 on open and close notifiers so me or someone else can modify it to work in Windows Live Messenger please.

I also won't upgrade to WML without this feature, and everything else about it is just so good. And yes I don't care if it isn't reliable, I also can tell when it is being right or not from experience.

http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=62423 There it is, the script.

quote:

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Originally posted by tacos_burritos

I also won't upgrade to WML without this feature, and everything else about it is just so good. And yes I don't care if it isn't reliable, I also can tell when it is being right or not from experience.

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So the reason that the open window notifier is unrealiable is because other events trigger it such as display picture or contact information.

So technically if one was to not have a display picture and also not fill in there contact card information it would work 100 percent of the time? Or is there some other kind of event that triggers it?

quote:

---

Originally posted by bradrobbo
And if you're reading this Cookie, it would be great if i could get a reply from you ^_^ ....

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quote:

---

Originally posted by bradrobbo
But anyway, Yes thats great stuff, i just want to see the closed feature in the very near future, with some program other, if inew what to do i would have a go - as i have some knowledge in VB6 - and have compiler     KTHNX

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alright im sick of people debating if it works or not. no it doesnt work properly because of protocol change and its been like that sionce msn 6 or something. i had it for the last msn's released, it was obvious the whole contact has left with convosation didnt worked BUT it was MORE OFTEN CORRECT, than inncorrect about contacts opening a convosations. before you debated about the 50% correctness, thats bullshit, it was at least 70% correct, and when it wasnt correct it wasnt hard to know it was fake. seeming the protocol is still the same as msn7+ you could have the same function still screwed up, but it would be a advantage.

and dont suggest the joke script for it, over it lame..

someone just get what was on msn, and apply it to live, give a warning about correctness and it will be fine. it will shut people up and solve everything. who cares if its not perfect, just create it.

peace.

If you read the thread, you would see its not accurate.-_-

yeah i read it. i dont care if its not 100%, infact dont care if its not 75%, its piss easy to know when there real or fake. worth it 100%

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeLaVega
Why not just change the text from "Users has opened a conversation" to "Connection established with User"
And the "User has closed your window" to "Connection lost with user"

---

that would indeed be a very good start to begin with because in that way people at least can read (as far people read these days) that it isn't  a "open/close window" thing.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jiggs
I'm only saying how having it is better than nothing for at least some users here. so let people do what they want. no one is forcing anyone to use it.

---

very true, but you aren't the people who can clean up the mess afterwards if they do 'crash' or the people who they start complaining to when it doesn't work.

wrong.... Before you call people sad and stuff, why don't you actually test that event out? Or even simply search the forums about it?

It is exactly posts/comments like this which are the culprint of so much misconceptions about "notifiers".

That event is only triggered when you have recieved the first message of a new chat. Hence: "started a new chat". It isn't called: "Opened a new window". Read what it states, not what you want it to be...

contact opens a new window with you => event not triggerd
contact starts typing in that new window => event still not triggered
contact presses enter and the message gets send => event not triggerd
message gots deliverd to your messenger => no event triggerd...
your messenger opens/shows a new window => yawn.... no event triggered...
your messenger prints out the message in the what window => aye caramba, it is triggerd!





in short: people quite often jump too quickly to conclussions and claim to know how things work... sorry... but BLAH

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quote:

---

Originally posted by AmbulanceX
yeah i read it. i dont care if its not 100%, infact dont care if its not 75%, its piss easy to know when there real or fake. worth it 100%

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quote:

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Originally posted by AmbulanceX
ahh ha ha thats got to hurt. that was funny, u must love shutting down people. anyway, dang i thought it did that. does messanger discovery do that or something different?

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ok i've been using the window open notifier without my display picture on for awhile and so far there havent' been any fake results.. my other post got no reply so i'll try again, what other events trigger the notifier other than others dling ur display picture

yeah that would be a fix, no display pictures. the problem is everones snobbing the idea of a script for this, because it wont be the same.

it WOULD be possable to make a script telling you every time someone downloads your display picture, the protocol change would make this very easy, so someone could make a script or plug in to notify you every time tis downloaded (everytime someone looks at your contact card or opens a convosation with you)

I'm sure it would, but messenger seems to grab display pics without any of the above conditions sometimes.

Cloudy

Hmm..
I've read a fair chunk of this thread, but if I end up repeating what has already been said, I appologize in advance.

CookieRevised is correct in saying that it isnt reliable.
However, if you know how to use it, it can be very useful.

To see if someone really opened your window, simply click the popup toast, and see if it says "xxx is typing a message", if this is shown then well they obviously did open your window. If "xxx is typing a message" isnt shown, then it is unlikely they opened your window - unless they opened it and didnt plan to say anything.

As for the closed window part, (the most important part in my opinion), that too can also be useful if you know how to use it. You need to remember that the protocol will send a 'BYE' message after convos have been inactive for 60 seconds. But if you get a 'BYE' before 60 seconds, then you know they closed the window. This is useful if you suspect someone of ignoring you, and you get a 'BYE' instantly after anything you say.

So yes, although this addon was unreliable. It was still very useful, as members in this thread have said.
This addon is only thing stopping me from upgrading to WML/MP!L - I've even started looking at scripting one myself, but then learnt you had to directly communicate with the protocol, which cannot be done with scripts..

I've not looked at the Messenger Discovery implementation of this feature, but from what I've read, it opens a window just to tell you someone closed your window? (aka, the protocol opened a connection to get a DP or something, and then it was killed a minute later, and you get a message about it. kinda sucks)

Its pretty bad that people who understand how to use these features are missing out on them due to noobs complaining about their unreliability.

Nah, when Messenger Discovery detects the event, it pops up its own version of a toast in the lower left portion of the screen by default, although i think it can be set to open a window. Don't hold it as gospel though

Cloudy

well there is a stuffplug comming out for WLM plus! but seeing that the plug ins have a new name chances are the name of stuff-plug  will be changed to, maybe to stuff-scripts...

quote:

---

Originally posted by fish-luke
well there is a stuffplug comming out for WLM plus! but seeing that the plug ins have a new name chances are the name of stuff-plug  will be changed to, maybe to stuff-scripts...

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quote:

---

Originally posted by fish-luke
well there is a stuffplug comming out for WLM plus! but seeing that the plug ins have a new name chances are the name of stuff-plug  will be changed to, maybe to stuff-scripts...

---

Someone please make it for WML, MSN 7.5 is too old now but I still won't upgrade coz of this awesome feature that does actually work most of the time.

So it works most of the time... Meaning just before they send you a message you get something saying they opened the window? Seems pointless, as most conversations start with "hi". Which can be typed almost instantaneously. Anyhow my advice for anyone holding back with 7.5 JUST for this feature, is get Messenger Discovery Live aswell as plus live, as it has this feature. I find it unlikely that anyone will code this for plus...

Cloudy

Edit: I think this is way overdue for a lock...

I've used discovery and its crap, they use extra popups instead of just telling you in the convo that people closed it, I like the natural and non intrusive way that the stuff-plugin did it in 7.5

so there is still not notifier, did i get this right? too said but thanks to all developers for the ones the brough up! is someone working on one?

Hey all..

I'm giving this project a look over in VB6, and i've made a sort of 'prototype', heh. It works so far, but the notifying bit is a bit more.. Uhh.. 'Difficult'. So far, i've got it giving me a message box when someone opens or closes a window, with ANY msn open.

I need some code that can help me get MSN to actually open one of its own popups, just like StuffPlug does - does anyone have any code, or any idea on how to do it? If so i can finally get this thing finished and hand it out to some more than eager people

I was thinking along the lines of the SendMessage API, Protocol Commands (what is actually sent/received by MSN), or the MSN API (which is probably impossible to use for this bit anyway, it doesnt support TOO much..)

Oh PS, also code for that "window closed" notifier - you know, like in stuffplug - it shows a message just like someone actually DID leave the conversation!

Cheers!

So basicly u have a open/close notifier that works but u just don't know how to actually notify it? (LOL)

U can use the plus popups, that should be easier.
Maybe search the forum will help, I remeber some1 asked about the MSNM popup...

EDIT: found this

Yep pretty much. Hehe..

That link with the toast info is for the old Messenger Plus which supported plugins - when the new one doesnt

I could just make it so that it shows a custom popup that i make myself - but the link wont be there to open the chat - which is a real pain....

quote:

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Originally posted by tacos_burritos
I've used discovery and its crap, they use extra popups instead of just telling you in the convo that people closed it, I like the natural and non intrusive way that the stuff-plugin did it in 7.5

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quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules
Yep pretty much. Hehe..

That link with the toast info is for the old Messenger Plus which supported plugins - when the new one doesnt

I could just make it so that it shows a custom popup that i make myself - but the link wont be there to open the chat - which is a real pain....

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Hmm that does look promising, and I saw something in the MsgPlus script CHM file I got, maybe I can get it to work, somehow.. The issue is just creating the window and all that, but im SURE i can get it working, maybe

ecion - this kid got hit the nail on the head. and for those who are saying this should be locked.. mayeb tou should stop caring and leave it alone, let us work on it talk about it, we dont need to hear your shit anymore. for the guys above making this script, really looking forward to seeing your work. peace.

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules
Hmm that does look promising, and I saw something in the MsgPlus script CHM file I got, maybe I can get it to work, somehow.. The issue is just creating the window and all that, but im SURE i can get it working, maybe

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Well whatever one that you can download from the Other section in the script database on here - but it seems to be coming along though.

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules
Well whatever one that you can download from the Other section in the script database on here - but it seems to be coming along though.

---

Im not going to use a script event to detect when a window is opened - im using a DLL im programming

I've just started something very similar.

I have a little app running at the moment which can sniff all packets through msn.

Have to rewrite it into a form which it can communicate with MsgPlus.

Problem is i dont have much time to research it as work is hectic at the moment.




Is your process using packet sniffing or does it hook msn's winsock calls?

Packet Sniffing, probably the easiest way, and i have a pretty good idea on how to implement it - tell me as i am curious also , how do you plan to get it to communicate with Messenger Plus?

Thats the part i havent worked out yet.. if you look at the post "dll -> script" someone has a suggestion in there.

Lol yeah but its not very helpful

Hey all,

Currently I am in the process of programming a new Window/Session Open/Closed Notifier for Windows Messenger Live - so far everything is going really well, and it even works - but keep in mind:

EDIT: JUST LIKE THE OLD ONE IN STUFFPLUG - IT IS NO MORE ACCURATE THAN THAT. THAT ONE WAS INNACURATE TO A DEGREE, AND THIS ONE IS EXACTLY THE SAME

Aaaaaanyway, time for the revealing of the work in progress.. Heh, I am betting a lot of people out there want this little plugin very badly, well not to fear - i'll have it complete soon

But as a little preview into the work, just check it out:

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules
Currently I am in the process of programming a new Window Open/Closed Notifier for Windows Messenger Live - so far everything is going really well, and it even works!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
1) Call it with its proper name: "open/closed session notifier"
2) Add a big red flashing popup (so to speak) to inform the user that such tools are NOT accurate especially if used as a open/closed window notifier <= and that is not an opinion as many will try to shut me up with! That is a fact. What you call reliable and 14/15 accurate is extremely highly biased and such figures are only true for specific cases. If you take all the possible scenario's in account you'll see that it will not have such a good ratio.

PS: and the excuse of "if they want it, let them have it" is pure BS, as it is forums like these where those people come to when they have problems with such stuff because they don't understand the background of it. And then we are having to explain it again and again how it actually works (or not works). Again, this is not an opinion but a fact and said out of years experience with this stuff.

---

quote:

---

This all shows that you (plural) still don't grasp exactly why people like me are against this. The reason is very simple and I will repeat it again for the gazillionth time: People who do not know how such stuff works (and those are the ones which will use such tools the most!!) will actually rely on this and misinterpret such tools. If you said you read and understood everything in that long thread then you also understand that calling this an "open/closed window notifier" is the worsed you can do.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by absorbation
He can call it what he wants . Good on you making it, it's in demand, people don't care if it works or not, they just want it....

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules
ATTENTION
This MESSENGER SESSION NOTIFIER is innacurate if you don't initially understand the principles behind it - proceed at your own risk.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules
OK everyone, listen up. This is a SESSION NOTIFIER, whenever an "IRO" command is received by MSN, which includes people changing their display pictures, people opening conversation windows with you, anything to do with the P2P side of the MSN Protocol, this will respond to. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.

---

Posts seem to be disappearing like mad here... But regardless, the title is fine, as this is the thing people will be looking for. But maybe you could edit the first post and state that it is, in fact a session notifier at the beginning and state that it doesn't work reliably sometimes. I know some people will say it doesn't work most of the time... But it is a "tool" and if you know that it doesn't work perfectly all the time then there is no problem.

Cloudy

Edit: Great work btw... I will be getting this script/addon

Not a problem Cookie, I will put a popup in when it is run for the first time - i'll fit it in where i can, but it WILL be there

EDIT: Thanks cloud, although i still need help with the connection closing bit - any suggestions?

I too have looked into this, as i know a far bit about visual basic, and the basics of networking. however I am lost in putting the two together. I have no idea how to access the protocol from vb, and have had little luck in searching for answers. oh wells.

good luck to those attempting to re-create these features. you're efforts are appreciated.

Hey again, theres a new thread:

http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=63611&pid=698217

Have a look, it seems to show when a connection is established from the MSN server, due to pictures being updated, windows opening, etc.. Also I need some ideas on how to finish off the CLOSE connection feature - the OPEN connection one is fine (as you will see in that thread) but the CLOSE one isnt so lucky - check it out and leave a message!

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules

quote:

---

He can call it what he wants . Good on you making it, it's in demand, people don't care if it works or not, they just want it....

---

Thanks absorbation, the TITLE is fine, because the feature of the application includes notifying about what i want, as well as being a session notifier. Call it what you wish, people know what it is.

---

Edit: @Cookie: The title is fine as for the purpose it is intended(Plus, bluntly, it's his addon/script, up to him on the name). I agree that it is innacurate, but this can be explained in the post(perhaps with big red letters)as to why it isn't techincally a Window open/close notifier. As it is, people who used StuffPlug would recognise it.

I have 2 ideas

1. You either hook the recieved message window and insert it there... I don't think this is the ideal solution though as what will you do when the window is closed (well... open one )

2. You use an "Action Message", similar to the "xyz has sent a nudge!". Now i'm sure that you don't want to send it to the other contact... But maybe (Hypothetically speaking) you could send it to the local messenger only as if it's coming from the other contact.

From the MSNPiki

quote:

---

Originally posted by MSNPiki
New Message Headers (Switchboard)
Starting from the WLM 8.0.0683 branches, Microsoft has introduced several new headers for messages sent in a Switchboard session. Details can be found below.
[edit]
Data Cast - ID 4

Setting the ID of a Data Case to 4 allows you to send an "action message", like the message "xyz has sent you a nudge!", but the font color is dark gray. The Data header must be set to the text you want WLM to display.

Note! You require to promote MSNC6 in order to receive Action Messages

code:

---

MIME-Version: 1.0\r\n
Content-Type: text/x-msnmsgr-datacast\r\n
\r\n
ID: 4\r\n
Data: Your text here\r\n

---

[edit]
PlugIn-Context Header

Whenever a Plug-In (or "Add-In") sends a message, this field is included. It tells the receiving client(s) wether the message was sent by a Plugg-In or not.

code:

---

Content-Type: text/x-msnmsgr-datacast\r\n
PlugIn-Context: 1\r\n

---

---

Yeah cloud thats a good idea, but i am using a sniffer to watch the packets, and i dont think a data injection is possible, let alone directing it somewhere.. Unless somehow it can be made into a proxy, which is a completely different matter..

Good job.   I'm glad someone finally made it so there'll be less people moaning for one!

Though I agree there should be ample warning that it is just sessions so it will be inaccurate or you will get people moaning it doesn't work...

Dont worry, ill include a warning when it's used, and it WILL be visible

Why are people putting so much effort into projects like this, don't waste your time.

Take the script from here, add a online checker & tweak it abit. Then you have it.

That script is a JOKE - read the thread title, and i've already done it anyway, actually - it uses some of the code from that - like, the POPUP that shows so you can click on it - so yeah.

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules
Dont worry, ill include a warning when it's used, and it WILL be visible

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules
That script is a JOKE - read the thread title, and i've already done it anyway, actually - it uses some of the code from that - like, the POPUP that shows so you can click on it - so yeah.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules
That script is a JOKE

---

@GiantSpider: No offence, but hes obviously put alot of work into this. His aim was to create a WORKING (e.g. NOT a joke) Session notifier. I wouldn't consider it a waste of time, no matter how innacurate it is as a Window opened\closed notification.

@nx01: I suggest either changing the title or having the fact it isn't accurate as a window opened notification right at the beginning of the post.

Cloudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by cloudhunter
Edit: @Cookie: The title is fine as for the purpose it is intended

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cloudhunter
@GiantSpider: No offence, but hes obviously put alot of work into this. His aim was to create a WORKING (e.g. NOT a joke) Session notifier. I wouldn't consider it a waste of time, no matter how innacurate it is as a Window opened\closed notification.

---

Yeah point taken cloud, but - they are saying that it IS innacurate - i know personally that it is, but I personally dont care - it works most of the time, and - its not as if im going to jump up and down or get into a fight with someone beacuse it said they did open a window when in fact they didnt.. Seriously.. Someone who fights with their friend over this matter mustn't have many brain cells if thats the case

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
No it is not... As a windows notifier IT DOES NOT WORK...

Secondly, why on earth would you wanna call it like that if you actually KNOW it isn't that.

Also, if you DO call it with its proper name people will STILL reconize it, but at least they are a bit better informed about the subject and to what it is.

Third, yes it is his script, but the issue is much wider and bigger than this, if you can't understand or see that than quite frankly you should open your eyes a bit and spend some more time on forums and helping in the messenger community.

---

nxo1rules cant wait for this to be released, i think alot of people know that these things arent accurate.. and who really cares fi they are or not

and at cookie

everytime i see your posts in these sort of threads its all the same stuff im reading that u type. perhaps you should not read them and maybe u wont get upset over somthing so silly

Well on some degree I must agree with Cookie. The things he says do need to be said as it is a very important to be said, and this script will affect the community as a whole - either positively or negatively - depending on what it is described as.

Cloudy

Well ive changed the thread title, it contains both now, because BOTH ARE included in the features of the plugin.

Cookie, there wasn't really any need to jump on him like that. I know you're against such scripts/add-ons/plugins/magical fairies, but lighten up dude The guy knows it'll be inaccurate. TBH, this whole thread is mostly fluff, as all that was needed at the start was a note along the lines of:
'Ensure you include a warning about the inaccuracy of the script'.

nx01rules: I think it's great you're into the whole scripting thing, and I wish you luck with this one. As a public script, it may not be ideal, but for cutting your teeth on scripting, it's really very good.
And don't worry about Cookie: like anyone, sometimes he gets a bit passionate

Maybe your next script could be more adventurous?

Nice one on the thread title... should have less hostility involved now

On-Topic: Any luck on notifying the window yet nx01rules?

Cloudy

Edit: Cookie's post removed, so I removed the relavant bits.

I have changed the title of the thread - please read my previous post that i made.

Oh great, now it's been merged into a thread with alot of really strong banter. That is really gonna help this isn't it.

Cloudy

Yep - but dont worry, once its done - it gets its own thread

I'll remake it when its done

quote:

---

Originally posted by RaceProUK
Cookie, there wasn't really any need to jump on him like that. I know you're against such scripts/add-ons/plugins/magical fairies, but lighten up dude

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RaceProUK
The guy knows it'll be inaccurate.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RaceProUK
TBH, this whole thread is mostly fluff, as all that was needed at the start was a note along the lines of:
'Ensure you include a warning about the inaccuracy of the script'.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cloudhunter
Oh great, now it's been merged into a thread with alot of really strong banter. That is really gonna help this isn't it.

---

I'll repeat my earlier question as we are back on-topic

quote:

---

Originally posted by me

On-Topic: Any luck on notifying the window yet nx01rules?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
and how does it help when 671465415641 threads about the same subject exist? Nothing, absolutely nothing has been said here which is new or which deserves a new thread (the script is NOT released yet).

Again, look at the much wider picture and the consequences it will bring once this is released as an "window notifier".... How can people be so blind for that?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cloudhunter

On-Topic: Any luck on notifying the window yet nx01rules?

---

Well short of injection or hooking the messenger window, i'm out of ideas. It would be possible to overlay a message over the window however, in much the same way as it's done with the iTunes+ script. Not an ideal solution though...

Cloudy

Thank you so much nx01rules for putting in the effort to create one. Just a suggestion if you do put in the disclaimer about it not being accurate, can you make it only pop up once ever so it doesn't become annoying.

Of course - i'll also include a warning where I can, on the forum before downloading it too.. But lol, im still stuck on how people would want the closed connection thing shown

nx01rules - good job bro, glad to see its coming along so well, yeah do the warnings, the poeple AFTER this (plug in or script?) will be people who used the old one on msn7.5 and realise it doesnt work 100% so they will understand how to use it.

cookie - glad to see your making helpful suggestions about it no longer constantly telling us it wont work.

when it was used on msn 7.5 or what ever it was great, obvious it didnt work all the time but it was easy to make a prediction if it was true or not. so this will be exactly the same i hope and thats all i need

keep up the work ill be here to download it once your done, cheers. 

Why not just do it in a toast pop up? "x@hotmail.com" has closed the conversation or w/e ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by craig2k5
Why not just do it in a toast pop up? "x@hotmail.com" has closed the conversation or w/e ?

---

w/e = what ever (i think)

nx01rules, surely something like this pseudo will work?

IF bye message recieved THEN
       IF contact window with that particular contact open THEN
       show session closed message in conversation window
       ENDIF
ENDIF

the nested if statement means that the following IF is only run if the first one is true. obviously i dont know how exactly you're coding it, so thats just he basic structure i would use.  that way the message isnt shown after the 60second time out for DP updates and stuff. hope that helps?

Yeah thats how i want to go about it - but cant because i dont know the code to add mesasges to the conversation window

isnt there a built in function in the plus-scripts part that allows you to put stuff in the conversation window? or does that just send it as a message to the other user?

Probably the latter - im looking into API calls to maybe list the child windows in each conversation window - or put an indicator on each conversation window stating the last received message and last closed connection time..

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules
remember that every timeout that happens

---

I'm sorry cookierevised, but you ARE out of line.

If someone wants to make a script, let them make it. I dont care if it works or doesnt work or doesnt work according to your standards. I dont care if 1 person or 1,000,000 people use it.

It it makes whoever uses it happy then so be it. If you dont want to explain to people that it doesnt work properly, then dont.

I dont believe the guy should have to change thread titles/application titles/add warnings unless he wants to.

You should be thankful that people are actually contributing to the msn community when all you seem to be doing is shutting people down even though it was proven that it is possible under some circumstances.

If you don't believe in someone making it then why do you have to post in this thread?

If i had enough spare time i'd be making the exact same application.

ps. yes i've had a long day at work, but i still stand by what i've said.


You dont see me shutting down people who make "simple" / first time scripts, if it gets someone into programming and they enjoy making it then i'm all for them making it.. If i dont need it i wont download it, but i'd never say they shouldnt make it or put them down in the process

@lysp: I appreciate what you are trying to say, but please not turn this thread into another arguement. It is the last thing that nx01rules needs... Please lets just try and keep it onto helping him?

Cloudy

I'm behind nx01 110%, i dont think those other posts are helping his cause though.

I don't think the fact this has gone to (now) 204 posts is helping.

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules

quote:

---

Originally posted by craig2k5
Why not just do it in a toast pop up? "x@hotmail.com" has closed the conversation or w/e ?

---

I have, it shows up in a popup - but thats annoying, remember that every timeout that happens - it will show up. And whats w/e?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lysp
I'm sorry cookierevised, but you ARE out of line.

If someone wants to make a script, let them make it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lysp
I dont care if it works or doesnt work or doesnt work according to your standards.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lysp
You should be thankful that people are actually contributing to the msn community when all you seem to be doing is shutting people down even though it was proven that it is possible under some circumstances.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lysp
If you don't believe in someone making it then why do you have to post in this thread?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lysp
ps. yes i've had a long day at work, but i still stand by what i've said.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by lysp
You dont see me shutting down people who make "simple" / first time scripts

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by nx01rules
Probably the latter - im looking into API calls to maybe list the child windows in each conversation window

---

Well this is interesting:

For some reason I just realised that there is no way to identify who a BYE message is sent to - sure the packet sniffer 'sniffs' the packets fine, but it can't be traced to which MSN it is targeted at - which is of course, BAD. Heh.

EDIT: I mean, thats IF you use polygamy on MSN, i mean, i know i do

It is possible: you just have to be careful which port you're looking at. It's possible to work out which instance by having a port number/process ID mapping.

Yeah i thought about trying to get the process ID from the event being fired - but im not sure how

Great, and now theres a new error - it wont work on wireless - only wired connections - maybe theres a way to fix that..

Sorry, maybe this has been answered before but, if you know it doesn't work, why would you use it?

It's like, here's a guitar, it's got no strings but I'll buy it & play it anyway. (This is also assuming you can't change guitar strings btw )

Because, like many other scripts on this forum, it's a tool. And tools can be useful if you know how they work, and how to use them and know their flaws.

Cloudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by GiantSpider
you know it doesn't work

---

It works as a session notifier yes. But not as a a window opener. You'll say it does sometimes, which to be honest doesn't warrant it to claim to do so.

GiantSpider - did you actually read the thread? as i know I (and maybe others?) pointed out how it can be used.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ecion
GiantSpider - did you actually read the thread? as i know I (and maybe others?) pointed out how it can be used.

---

Right a little question. When someone opens a window with you, does it generate a notification?

Yes.

Does it generate a closed window notification if it is before the 60 second timeout?

Yes.

The problem lies in the fact it does it with other events aswell. Like display picture getting.

So does it work as a Open/Closed Window notification?

Yes... But you need to understand that alot of the time they haven't opened your window, and therefore, is innacurate.

Cloudy

someone should make a "session notifier".

it's nice to know that people are thinking about you - even if it's just looking at your contact card. and anyway - if someone opens a "session" with you and they're "offline" wouldn't that mean that they're really appearing offline or blocking you?

and if you get a "closed session notification" like 2 seconds after your contact replies they you'll know they really did close the window.


Just because the technology/software doesn't work very well as a "open/close window notifier" does not mean it is useless. A lot of people would probably find a "session notifier" quite usefull.

Would moving the British nuclear fleet into waters around the middle east and firing several nuclear & hydrogen bombs at Isreal stop the current invasion of Lebbanon?

Yes

Would doing the same to Lebbanon stop Hezzbollah & the Islamic Militants there?

Yes

The problem is it would also kill millions of innocent men, women & children & at least 3 generations afterward. Damage the Earth & really piss the rest of the radical Islamics off.

You see you could call it a peace maker, but it does all these other things aswell.

Edit:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jellings
A lot of people would probably find a "session notifier" quite usefull.

---

Although that analogy is well thought out, it is innacurate. For instance, getting a notification for a display pic is not really too bad... Anyhow i'm not going to discuss polotics here

@Jellings: Someone is already making one, nx01rules. He is just figuring out how to display a message inside the conversation window, but he seems capable I'll PM him and ask about the status

Cloudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by cloudhunter
getting a notification for a display pic is not really too bad

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by GiantSpider

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jellings
A lot of people would probably find a "session notifier" quite usefull.

---

Not in dispute at all, but you can't then release it as a "open/close window notifier or make people believe it will do such a thing.

---

quote:

---

@Jellings: Someone is already making one, nx01rules. He is just figuring out how to display a message inside the conversation window, but he seems capable I'll PM him and ask about the status Cloudy

---

Well if you look from page 15 onwards, you will see the start of the discussion. Granted it is mostly alot of ranting from other people... He doesn't have a website as far as I know. It will be in all likelyhood called a window open notification... But the result is the same. It is, and always was, a Session notifier.

Cloudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by cloudhunter
Although that analogy is well thought out, it is innacurate. For instance, getting a notification for a display pic is not really too bad... Anyhow i'm not going to discuss polotics here

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by GiantSpider

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jellings
A lot of people would probably find a "session notifier" quite usefull.

---

Not in dispute at all, but you can't then release it as a "open/close window notifier or make people believe it will do such a thing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jellings
Awesome, where will this be released

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cloudhunter
It will be in all likelyhood called a window open notification...

---

I know it wasn't to start an discussion on politics

With your analogy I understand why it can't be called a "working" Open close window notifier. But it can be called a working session notifier very easily... As that is exactly what you program it to do. That I beleive, is in no dispute at all.

Cloudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by cloudhunter
With your analogy I understand why it can't be called a "working" Open close window notifier. But it can be called a working session notifier very easily... As that is exactly what you program it to do. That I beleive, is in no dispute at all.

---

That is not to say that you could put inside your thread what it was previously known as, as long as it is made sure that people know that it is no longer accurate (preferabely in big red letters )

Cloudy

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised

he read it and as he said, "it does work as a session notifier, but not as a opened/closed window notifier". He is dead right about that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
My car analogy is just the same but from another POV. If a car only starts half the time (analogy to you only get a true open/closed window notification half the time), it is not a working car (analogy to it is not working as a reliable open/close window notifier)...

---

i can understand people getting sick of developing in this kind of climate. why dont' we just wait until someone developed a new one. obviously everyone finds the other one, if its working or not, whatever its name is, useless.

Outch, cookie stole my anaology, i said to him, if a car only starts 50% of the time, the car is working. because it can move, it can do what its ment to do. doesnt matter if it can only do this 50% of the time. so cookie, just leave this post alone.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ecion

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised

he read it and as he said, "it does work as a session notifier, but not as a opened/closed window notifier". He is dead right about that.

---

Please do not make me keep repeating myself. It can indeed be used as a open/closed window notifer, as I explained here:
http://shoutbox.menthix.net/showthread.php?tid=61...d=692651#pid692651

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ecion

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
My car analogy is just the same but from another POV. If a car only starts half the time (analogy to you only get a true open/closed window notification half the time), it is not a working car (analogy to it is not working as a reliable open/close window notifier)...

---

You have the basis of that analogy wrong. As actually the car WOULD start every time you wanted it to.. However, it would also start up by itself. (Analogy being you ALWAYS get a notification when a window is open. - but get extra notifications for DPs etc.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ecion
CookieRevised; if you are so against this, then ignore it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ecion
The fact is people will be able to use it as an "open/closed window notifier". (Again I refer to the ''rules'' so to speak, that I listed in my first post in this thread).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ecion
If you don’t want to use it, fine, but have the decency to let others get on with it, without being put down by you all the time.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by AmbulanceX
Outch, cookie stole my anaology, i said to him, if a car only starts 50% of the time, the car is working. because it can move, it can do what its ment to do.

---

I understand where Cookie is coming from. I would want the name change aswell. Otherwise you will get many, many people coming in posting that it doesn't work.

If it was "session notifier", it would be better. It can still be used as a 'open/closed notifier', since it still has the functions.

Cookie has good intentions. Does it really matter what it is going to be called? As long as you guys get what you want, you should be happy.

I for one reckon the name should be changed with notes all over the plugin stating that it is not reliable at all as a window open/close notifier etc etc.

*sneaks in to give my 2 cents*

I have read the last 2 pages, and thats it. About cookie's anology and such. So I don't have a complete understanding about whats been going on in this thread. Now with that said...

Someone is making a session notifier? Cool stuff. I found that the StuffPlug WON/WCN was fairly accurate, altho did notify me when no window was actually opened. It didn't ruin my experience, or cause me to go all noob on anyone however and demand a 100% working notifier . I knew it just wasn't possible, and I was fine with what I had.

I liked the feature, and the coder did their best on something that was/is next to impossible to have working 100%. I didn't mind one bit. As long as it worked some of the time, I was happy.

I am glad a notifier is being developed. As long as it works even a little bit, its good in my opinion. I can't toss any precentages on this sort of thing because like alot of people have said... its not accurate.

But who cares if its not accurate? Don't use it if you don't want to. Its not bundled and integrated into messenger, so no one would be forcing you . Besides, soooooo many people want it weither its accurate or not. So the way I see it, is make the darn thing, have it at least notify correctly to the best of your ability, and make some people happy. Whats to lose? So it doesn't work 100%, big deal. Windows doesn't ALWAYS work 100% of the time, but it still does what its meant to for the most part.

This shouldn't be compared to real life situations (like cars, and science) because this is just some code to execute some half working function. It makes people happy and content they have their little notifications back, and I am SURE they wouldn't mind a bunch of false notifications if it at least worked a bit .

Thats just my 2 cents on this, and I hope others can see it this way. Its never going to be 100% working unless microsoft decideds to change their program to allow it. So for now we can "guesstimate" on a contact opening a window, and be content. If its a real notification, great! If not, what do you have to lose other than a split second of your life seeing the notification .

*sneaks away quietly*
>_>
<_<

quote:

---

It is explantions like that which are WRONG...

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quote:

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yeah sure, and that is a working car*? don't make me laugh...

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FFS, start reading my stuff for what it stands instead. I never said I'm against this...

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They will not be able to use it as a reliable window notifier. Even you yourself state this in your "rules". It is NOT working as a window notifier and it is not a window notifier.

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Again read my freaking posts, for your information (but apparently you don't hold 'information' very highly) I actually help in developping such a SESSION notifier...

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Sure it can.... now go buy that car and use it as your own car...

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Originally posted by ecion

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It is explantions like that which are WRONG...

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I like how you couldnt back that up. Just a one line reply.

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Originally posted by ecion
again another one liner? Obviously you see I'm right then? As the car does start when you want it to. (does always show when a window is opened). I dont feel the need to keep repeating myself. If you cant understand these analogies, then I suggest you stop trying to use them.

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Originally posted by ecion
First of all, "FFS" getting to swearing are we? I thought you were suppose to be one of the more sensible around here?

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Originally posted by ecion
But anyway back to the quote: So you're telling me you're not against this? then why are you constantly attacking people in this thread, and telling them it doesnt work, when infact many, many users know how to use it properly.

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Originally posted by ecion
How can you say i dont hold "information" highly? As you are bring no information into this discussion. See my previous quotes where you blurt out a statement with nothing to back it up. Probably because it cant be backed up.

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Originally posted by ecion
As the car DOES always start when you want it to. But also when you dont want it to.

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Originally posted by ecion
If you reply to this, please try and put in some facts with ways of backing it up, rather than just your ignorant opinions.

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Everyone, as cookierevised (a senior and very knowledgable plus member) has already said.

The open/closed window notifier feature doesn't work. The way in which messenger communicates to microsoft has changed. It doesn't send "window opened" anymore. Any script/program that tells you when a window is opened is inaccurate.

How can you be notified of a new window being opened if microsoft don't send you this information?

It is magic? Who knows. The fact is the information isn't being sent and hence you cannot figure it out.

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Originally posted by ecion
If you reply to this, please try and put in some facts with ways of backing it up, rather than just your ignorant opinions.

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The thing is that I'm sure he also did research about it, but the problem is understanding that if something doesn't work reliable, it doesn't work 100%. And in software, when something doesn't work 100%, it doesn't work.

Together with this is the title issue. This isn't just another random new feature which the creator can name whatever he wants it to be. "Open/Closed Window Notifier" is a well known term thruout the entire Messenger community for years and it stands (or rather it did stand) for a tool which detected 100% accurate when a window was opened or closed.

Many people (the n00bs to call them disrespectfull) did NOT know that at a certain point they didn't work 100% anymore and that is what helpers on forums have been telling people for several years now.

Making a tool like this and calling it again a window notifier is bluntly wrong and will do nothing more than misinforming all those "n00b" people. Calling a tool like that and saying it does work undermines everything which dedicated helpers have been trying to teach people over the past years...

Analogy: see block checkers

Constantly insisting in stating the opposite obviously gets those helpers on their high horse. It's even worse when the person who insist in stating such things gives some signs of being a bit intelligent and having a bit more knowledge about this than the average Joe.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
And in software, when something doesn't work 100%, it doesn't work.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
PS: I wouldn't even be surprised that you also still claim that block checkers work (block checkers which can be perfectly compared with window notifiers, as block checkers will also "always" inform the user when he is blocked besides the fact that they also report many false reports)....

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
And in software, when something doesn't work 100%, it doesn't work.

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Obviously we are not talking about just bugs...


A bug is something which happens which is not supposed to be happening, a programming error... False open window notifs all the time are SUPPOSED to be happening with a session notifier. There are no programming errors in a sessions notifier, yet it does not work as a window notifier as there are no unique messages to specify opened/closed windows.

Why why why do people still want stuff like this? Please tell me if i'm blocked..please let me see what my contact typed before he/she sends it....please let me know if a conversation screen is opened with me?

What good is this to you? You wanna falsely accuse your contact of blocking you or opening a conversation and not speaking?

Until a message is send all this stuff really is of no importance to you...

first of all, can you loose the attidude please. I like a good discussion, but when people take your tone its quite immature.

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Oh brother... What do you think all my posts are about? Or do you need yet another half page long post explaning it in detail?

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ecion, you obviously have some issue trying to understand posts. Or rather, did you even read posts properly at all? I very strongly begin to doubt that...

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Not around stupid people who persist in stating inaccurate stuff when the accurate explantion is given more than hundreds times already.

TBH, I even bet you don't even know what I'm talking about when I say that this issue has been dealt with on several messenger related forums years ago... So stop being the script-kiddy like dude.

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1) I attack people like you, not people who have constructive things to say or do like nx01rules.
2) You can not use it properly as a window notifier. Stop being arse-stupid and do some research on the protocol and do some research on statistics if you persist in stating that.

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Probably because I'm sick an tired of replying to stuff like that when I already have replied to such stuff more times than needed before.

"Oh oh.. he replies with a one-liner... I'm therefore right"... Sure, sure budy... now reread all my posts in this thread. As a matter of fact your analogies have been replied to in detail even before you stated them, as they were already stated before. Again proof that you don't read jack-shit (or at least don't understand what is been said).

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You're so missing the point it gets rediculus...

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PS: I wouldn't even be surprised that you also still claim that block checkers work (block checkers which can be perfectly compared with window notifiers, as block checkers will also "always" inform the user when he is blocked besides the fact that they also report many false reports)....

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PS2: and before YOU reply with "you constantly continue this, stop it", note that this discussion was once more ended several posts ago (and I had no intention to post further, unless it was to a question from nx01rules), until you came along and needed to start it all over again. As long as people reply with stuff like you, I always will reply with the stuff I have already said before...

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CookieRevised might come off as ignorant at times but he is extremely helpful in these forums giving a vast knowledge base.  He is right 99.9999999% of the time (if not more than that).  If you had half the sense of Cookie then you would accept what he says as the truth because I am sure that he has done some research into the area that he talks about.  And you yourself should not be so ignorant towards him because he does know his stuff and he does try to help people understand for themselves but obviously he doesn't please everyone with the way he does it.  Read the facts from many forums and websites before coming back here and telling Cookie he is wrong (I'm sure you will find the same thing elsewhere).

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The thing is that I'm sure he also did research about it, but the problem is understanding that if something doesn't work reliable, it doesn't work 100%. And in software, when something doesn't work 100%, it doesn't work.

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Together with this is the title issue. This isn't just another random new feature which the creator can name whatever he wants it to be. "Open/Closed Window Notifier" is a well known term thruout the entire Messenger community for years and it stands (or rather it did stand) for a tool which detected 100% accurate when a window was opened or closed.

Many people (the n00bs to call them disrespectfull) did NOT know that at a certain point they didn't work 100% anymore and that is what helpers on forums have been telling people for several years now.

Making a tool like this and calling it again a window notifier is bluntly wrong and will do nothing more than misinforming all those "n00b" people. Calling a tool like that and saying it does work undermines everything which dedicated helpers have been trying to teach people over the past years...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
obviously we are not talking about just bugs...

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Originally posted by ecion
first of all, can you loose the attidude please. I like a good discussion, but when people take your tone its quite immature.
(...)
If you cant be arsed to bring up any facts, so why should I be arsed to go searching all your posts, filtering out the ones with simple 'it doesnt work' like replies.

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Originally posted by ecion
you seem to have avoided the paragraph you quoted there. Oh I wonder why.

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Originally posted by ecion
Oh i love how you say 'I even bet you dont even know what im talking about' - as it seems to be you who does understand me.

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Originally posted by ecion
Look. My earlier post of how to tell if its real or not. Those methods work, do they not? Yes.

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Originally posted by ecion
And you're saying I've added nothing constructive to this topic? First of all I explained how these features CAN be used, and I've breifly tried to help with the logic of issuing the notification.

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Originally posted by ecion
If you're sick of it, stop replying.
And if my analogy has been replied to before i even stated it, then please link me to it, as I dont see it.

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Originally posted by ecion
Not really. The point is you ALWAYS get a notifaction when a window is opened. Can you deny that? No.
Yes you get 'false alarms' but I have already stated how distinguish between these and the real deal.

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Originally posted by ecion

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PS: I wouldn't even be surprised that you also still claim that block checkers work

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what? that is completly off topic. Seems like you're just trying to put me down again. Grow up.

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Originally posted by ecion
oh i am so very sorry for posting about how i disagree with you. No freedom of speech here then?

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Originally posted by ecion
So going by that train of thought, Windows XP doesnt work. Internet Explorer doesnt work. Basically every peice of software doesnt work, as many peices of software, still contain bugs.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
A bug is something which happens which is not supposed to be happening, a programming error... False open window notifs all the time are SUPPOSED to be happening with a session notifier. There are no programming errors in a session notifier, yet it does not work as a window notifier as there are no unique messages to specify opened/closed windows.

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Originally posted by lordy16 here
Window Open/closed Notifiers
OK, because of all the people DEMANDING that the Window Open (WON) and Close (WCN) notifiers be kept in StuffPlug, I've decided to make this thread (despite the fact that this information IS already on the forum, people have also been demanding we post it here).

Reason for WON being removed

When MSN Messenger 7.5 came along with contact cards and the ability to see your contact's display pictures in your contact list, Microsoft changed the MSN Messenger protocol to accomodate these new features.

They made it so that a connection is made between each person's computer when someone downloaded a person's display picture so it could be viewed in the contact window or when the person's contact card was clicked.

This connection was causing StuffPlug to give false alerts of a person opening your conversation window.

There is no way for stuffplug to determine a genuine conversation window opening connection and one merely downloading a person's display pic off their computer.

This is not something that can be worked around.

Reason for WCN being removed

Once again, when 7.5 came around with the new MSN Messenger Protocol, the WCN was rendered useless.

When a conversation window has been idle for a certain length of time, MSN Messenger closes the connection between the two computers. This gives stuffplug a false indication that the conversation window has been closed.

Once again, possible solutions to the problem have been looked at, and none have worked.


I hope this post keeps people happy, now you've got the detailed explaination you were after.

Please note that these features will NOT be coming back, so don't post in here asking for them to be, or the post WILL be deleted
Posted by lordy16 on July 2, 2006

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You claim open window notifiers still work provided you can interpret and distinguish between true and false warnings.

The fact is that you can NEVER know for SURE, you only GUESS. As far as I know guessing is not included in a working program...

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No!

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Which was already stated before and which was already replied upon before... hence, no, nothing new...

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I'm not going to search the thread for your behalf, do your own homework. I have put already more than enough time in this... (as a matter of fact, everything, yes everything, said in this thread has already been discussed many years ago also... and on many different forums)...

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Hence it doesn't work.

If you get a job to make a search engine to search for cars and it also replies with boats, trucs, airplanes, don't tell me your boss is going to be happy and say "wow, a working car search engine, nice, hear is $1000".... Common sense...

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it's perfectly on topic as it is almost a perfect analogy...

(but I also could have replied with the stupid "what? you don't have anything to counter that? So you know I'm right" reply...)

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We are very obviously not talking about bugs...

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A bug is something which happens which is not supposed to be happening, a programming error... False open window notifs all the time are SUPPOSED to be happening with a session notifier. There are no programming errors in a session notifier, yet it does not work as a window notifier as there are no unique messages to specify opened/closed windows.

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Originally posted by ecion
Wrong. Its not guessing. If you get a window opened notification and then you click it, and it says they're typing, then they obviously DID open your window.

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Originally posted by ecion

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No!

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You cant explain why then?

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Originally posted by ecion
And im not going to look for something in this thread which probably doesnt exist.

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Originally posted by ecion
On similar, but slightly different analogy, if you needed to search for cars, and the only way you could search for cars was to use a search which also incuded boats, trucks, and planes, then you'd still use it, as you'd know which ones are actually cars.

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Originally posted by ecion
(block checkers) Explain how its a perfect analogy, as I dont use such things. and that is the reason i've not countered it so dont try that one. like i said in the previous post, I am not up on the whole blockchecking situation.

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Originally posted by ecion
yes in its present form, it is not a reliable window open notifier. However it can still be used as one.

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Originally posted by ecion
that post from stuffplug's site is basically saying it was removed due to being innaccurate. - As I have stated, these features can still be used as long as you understand them, like how i said in my first post in this thread.

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I've been keeping track of this thread for a while now, and approaching 250 posts, with little but arguing has officially pissed me off. If this doesn't stop, I'll report the whole thread as spam.

I don't care what people's arguments are about this. Hell I don't even care what you call it. Name it 'Trident Missile Launcher' for all I care. Just stop fucking arguing!

Edit; And don't think I'm singling anyone out here. Every single post made in retaliation to another I view as at fault. As a result, almost all of us, including me, are guilty of continuing this for far too long.

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sure and in the process you forget about all the other notifications.... Even the notifications of a truely openend windows but where the user does not type anything...

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Oh dude, will you loose those absolutely childish remarks already and read some posts for a change?

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Yeah, just as you can always perfectly guess when a notif is correct or not, you perfectly know what has been said in this thread without looking at it... congratulations... (you need to play on the lottery).

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Huston, we have a connection...

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read the sticky thread on the forum about this...

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1) it's present form is the form it always will be in
2) if it is not a reliable window notifer I feel to see how it can be used a s a reliable window notifier.

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the whole freeking point is that there is NO way to understand them. You can NEVER EVER be sure ALL THE TIME.

If there was a way to "understand" them, then it could also be programmed.

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I don't. People are just arguing past each other now, and nothing constructive is forthcoming.

Thread reported.

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Originally posted by ecion
If they dont type then obviously you cannot be sure they opened your window.
(...)
but still the window opened part can be used to certain degree of accuracy

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Originally posted by ecion

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read the sticky thread on the forum about this...

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Ah yes, as I mentioned earlier (i was unsure if things had changed since then) block checkers only work if the suspect is allowing all users to see their status. Though this is irrelivent, is it not?

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Originally posted by ecion

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1) it's present form is the form it always will be in
2) if it is not a reliable window notifer I fail to see how it can be used a s a reliable window notifier.

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1) I never aid it was going to change, did I?
2) yea i worded that wrong. - What I mean is, although it gives false alerts, you can tell when some of those alerts are real.

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All meanig it is not working as it should.

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No, as that is actually the same issue. People thought they still worked, although they gave false warnings and what not (yeah, together with true warnings, but just as with the window notifier you have no way for knowing for sure). Block checkers do not work anymore and the best you can call them are Online Checkers. just as a window notifier will NOT work anymore, and at best can be called a SESSION notifier.

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1) By using "in it's present form" you imply that there is going to be another future form.
2) "Some of those", "not all", etc... hence it is not working, and you don't even have a good way to "guess" which are correct and which not.

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@RaceProUK, I too understand the issue you talk about, but actually pruning this thread will do nothing good at all. The issue will still be there and sooner or later a new thread will be made and everything starts from the beginning. Moreover, all the information posted in this thread will be lost and needs to be posted again etc...

The same for when it is moved to T&T (I don't whish anything else), is will be pruned eventually and it will start again...

At least now there is 1 thread where this is and can be discussed. And it contains all the info there is about this subject.

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I reported this hours ago.

Look, a basic summary is, WON & WCN DO NOT WORK, a workaround to this is simply to wait for someone to talk to you, and if they close the window, then it's not the end of the world, they might not have Plus! tabs enabled.

If you want do wait for this, which will falsely give you notifications then you are more than wellcome to do so, but don't ask for help or complain when you realise it doesn't.

Enough is enough, all that is happening is the same thing is repeating over and over again. If people have something constructive to add, I welcome it. But for now, I suggest the discussion ends on whether it works or not. Because as has been so VERY frequenently said, It isn't 100% reliable. Granted, if you get an alert, you open theit window and they are typing, then you know they opened your window. However, why would you need to be told that they have opened your window? As they most likely will say "Hi" or something short as an introduction...

Having said that, if you know that it isn't accurate, getting false notifications wont be too much of an annoyance. I use the feature on Messenger Discovery Live (when it decides it's connected...) and getting false notifications doesn't bother me.

I know I am already repeating for the umpteenth time what has already being said... But bottom line is: It is no longer a open window notifyer, it is now more of a notification when a certain protocol message has been recieved.

Cloudy