Rename Contact = Irony? - Printable Version
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+----- Thread: Rename Contact = Irony? (/showthread.php?tid=61704)
Rename Contact = Irony? by kaiconan on 06-27-2006 at 04:56 AM
Is that some kind irony for people like me using MSG Plus! "rename contact"?
A lot of us know that MSG Plus! Live does not support "reneme contact" for older ver. so is that means the users have to copy and paste by there mouse a thousand times?
If people using Hotmail or MSN mail, they can copy the contact list into Hotmail or MSN mail. However, Poeple like me using Gmail or Yahoo! mail has to be punished(?) just because we dont using Hotmail or MSN mail?
I would like to ask MSG Plus! Group gives another program to help the people like me to trans "Reneme Contact" from MSG Plus! to WLM now functions. If MSG Plus! dont has any good ideas about "Service after selling"... more people will stop using MSG Plus! Live for sure!
I wish that my opinion is very clearly sent to MSG Plus! Group.
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by NiteMare on 06-27-2006 at 05:42 AM
quote:as this has be said MANY times on the forum already, the rename a contact feature may be added back in if the WLM version of the feature does not improve
Originally posted by kaiconan
I would like to ask MSG Plus! Group gives another program to help the people like me to trans "Reneme Contact" from MSG Plus! to WLM now functions. If MSG Plus! dont has any good ideas about "Service after selling"... more people will stop using MSG Plus! Live for sure!
people have to remember 2 things:
1. search before you post, most likly your question has been answered
2. it took 8 months of recodeing to get plus!live to where it is now, not every feature could be added back in, things have to be prioratized, and if you are thinking, "OMG THIS FEATURE IS A PRIORITY", thats only YOUR opinion, it may not be a priority to others
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by qgroessl on 06-27-2006 at 05:49 AM
quote:And with that I'm sure Patchou coded thing in some sort of order that made it easier for him to code.... His job isn't easy... it's long and tireless.... and as a lot of people don't know... He's the ONLY one coding this awesome program and it takes months of work.... He's not God
Originally posted by NiteMare
2. it took 8 months of recodeing to get plus!live to where it is now, not every feature could be added back in, things have to be prioratized, and if you are thinking, "OMG THIS FEATURE IS A PRIORITY", thats only YOUR opinion, it may not be a priority to others
MP!L isn't fully complete yet, and there are still many improvments to be made with all the feedback he'll recieve.
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by jmccarroll on 06-27-2006 at 05:49 AM
Yeah, as users we have to think about this. This isn't just the normal update to spice things up. This has been completely recoded, it's a new program started from scrath basically. Not adding on to what already exists... If every feature in the old Plus! were included in this Plus! it would take quite some time longer to code, thus not being released around the release of WLM. Would you rather have what you have now, or wait longer for the final. The way I'm looking at this is just a hold over until Patchou can have time to include the other things. I, like many, am missing some of the features not included but I'm also loving the fact we have what we have. After all, Patchou has a life outside of Plus! and we're not paying him to make this product for us.
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by Chestah on 06-27-2006 at 05:58 AM
As NiteMare said its all about piorities. WLM already has this feature (albiet it not as good as the old Plus! 3 version) so its hardly high in the piority list for this first release 
.
RE: RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by kaiconan on 06-27-2006 at 03:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NiteMare
quote:as this has be said MANY times on the forum already, the rename a contact feature may be added back in if the WLM version of the feature does not improve
Originally posted by kaiconan
I would like to ask MSG Plus! Group gives another program to help the people like me to trans "Reneme Contact" from MSG Plus! to WLM now functions. If MSG Plus! dont has any good ideas about "Service after selling"... more people will stop using MSG Plus! Live for sure!
people have to remember 2 things:
1. search before you post, most likly your question has been answered
2. it took 8 months of recodeing to get plus!live to where it is now, not every feature could be added back in, things have to be prioratized, and if you are thinking, "OMG THIS FEATURE IS A PRIORITY", thats only YOUR opinion, it may not be a priority to others
If you said this has been told MANY times, MSG Plus! has to notice that this is big problem and MSG Plus! has to improve this problem!
Many users told MSG about this means MSG Plus! can not just stop the function without any other way to solve this problem...
Please thinks about the way of user thinks... and understand what does the user really need MSG Plus! improve...
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by qgroessl on 06-27-2006 at 03:52 PM
It's not a big problem... most people just don't know that WLM has rename contacts.... that's the problem... over the next month or two I'm sure they'll improve that feature till it's like how MsgPlus! had it.... Be patient.
RE: RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by kaiconan on 06-27-2006 at 11:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by UTI
It's not a big problem... most people just don't know that WLM has rename contacts.... that's the problem... over the next month or two I'm sure they'll improve that feature till it's like how MsgPlus! had it.... Be patient.
You are miss understanding!
The big problem is MSN 7.5 dont has Reneame Contect so that poeple choose use Plus!
But now... poeple try to back up form Plus! so that they can trans to WLM... However, Plus! Live dont have any of this kind of functions... that means people have to copy and paste by their hands 100 times 'Coz they had trust Plus! before... now they feel Plus! Live betray them... it is ugly!
Plus! must improve this so that people can export Rename Contect from older ver to WLM rename contect.
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by frewys on 07-10-2006 at 05:28 PM
Pleeeeeease!!! This IS the reason i use plus!
Please let there be some kind of export feauture so i can translate them preferably to Mess Live renamed account.
Regards
Frewys
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by Chrono on 07-10-2006 at 05:36 PM
quote:It will be faster if you just rename your contacts again rather than waiting for such a feature to exist O_o.
Originally posted by frewys
Pleeeeeease!!! This IS the reason i use plus!
Please let there be some kind of export feauture so i can translate them preferably to Mess Live renamed account.
Regards
Frewys
lazy people
.RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by Luised on 07-11-2006 at 12:32 AM
I don't see any problems in there... You just have to rename all (or not) your contacts ONE ONLY TIME. After this, you can export your contact list directly in WLM. What's the problem? MsgPlus don't need to have this "big" feature...
BUT, if Microsoft doesn't improve the rename contact feature soon, it would be nice if it could be added to MsgPlus. At least, some functions for customize the nickname, like bold, italic or color.
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by Voldemort on 07-11-2006 at 12:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Luised
At least, some functions for customize the nickname, like bold, italic or color.
You can add things like bold and italic and colour using the appropiate tags inside the wlm rename feature...
RE: RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by Luised on 07-11-2006 at 12:40 AM
quote:This is interesting, but I would like to add bold, italic or colour but NOT change the name. And I don't think it's possible...
Originally posted by Voldemort
You can add things like bold and italic and colour using the appropiate tags inside the wlm rename feature...
I hope you understand me...
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by Voldemort on 07-11-2006 at 12:43 AM
Oh, you are right
RE: RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by Luised on 07-11-2006 at 12:45 AM
quote:I think it was possible in Messenger Plus 3.x, that's why I said that.
Originally posted by Voldemort
Oh, you are right
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by nikosATH on 07-11-2006 at 08:48 AM
I just can't believe how some people don't take seriously the fact that not everyone has the time to copy/paste 200 or 500 contacts just because an UNTHOUGHTFULL programmer "chose to leave out a feature he thought was not a priority"!!!!
If exporting ALL your contacts and settings in the process of upgrading a program is not an A PRIORITY really I don't see what it is... just imagine what would happen if for example Microsoft updated IE and "left out" our bookmarks, or Outlook and thought our address list is "not a priority"....
You people have done exactly this same thing... Many of us heavy MSN users who have multiple accounts with hundreds of names renamed at this point would PAY (if we could) just to get out of this problem... so much for trusting a "third party free program" - you give this term a bad name
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by ShawnZ on 07-11-2006 at 08:52 AM
just imagine what would happen if someone had to remember the names of their contacts!
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by ayjay on 07-11-2006 at 08:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by nikosATH
I just can't believe how some people don't take seriously the fact that not everyone has the time to copy/paste 200 or 500 contacts just because an UNTHOUGHTFULL programmer "chose to leave out a feature he thought was not a priority"!!!!
If exporting ALL your contacts and settings in the process of upgrading a program is not an A PRIORITY really I don't see what it is... just imagine what would happen if for example Microsoft updated IE and "left out" our bookmarks, or Outlook and thought our address list is "not a priority"....
You people have done exactly this same thing... Many of us heavy MSN users who have multiple accounts with hundreds of names renamed at this point would PAY (if we could) just to get out of this problem... so much for trusting a "third party free program" - you give this term a bad name
Well here's a plan. Why not make a third party program yourself if they're so great that can export/import the contacts. Problem solved!
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by RaceProUK on 07-11-2006 at 09:01 AM
quote:Patchou is far from unthoughtful. He had to make some big decisions so he could get MP!L out soon after the WLM final release. If a few features got the chop as a result, it was the lesser of two evils. No-one underestimates the popularity of the old Custom Contact Names, and as been said dozens of times already, if the WLM Nicknames feature doesn't improve, expect to see at least a partial return of Custom Names.
Originally posted by nikosATH
I just can't believe how some people don't take seriously the fact that not everyone has the time to copy/paste 200 or 500 contacts just because an UNTHOUGHTFULL programmer "chose to leave out a feature he thought was not a priority"!!!!
If exporting ALL your contacts and settings in the process of upgrading a program is not an A PRIORITY really I don't see what it is... just imagine what would happen if for example Microsoft updated IE and "left out" our bookmarks, or Outlook and thought our address list is "not a priority"....
You people have done exactly this same thing... Many of us heavy MSN users who have multiple accounts with hundreds of names renamed at this point would PAY (if we could) just to get out of this problem... so much for trusting a "third party free program" - you give this term a bad name
Note: I say 'partial' because all that's needed is support for tags, and the removal of the nickname length limit.
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by Menthix on 07-11-2006 at 09:02 AM
quote:I'm sorry to say this, but it is pretty UNTHOUGHTFULL from you if you really rely this badly on freeware software...
Originally posted by nikosATH
because an UNTHOUGHTFULL programmer "chose to leave out a feature he thought was not a priority"
The EULA which you agree on while installing clearly states "MESSENGER PLUS! LIVE AND ITS SPONSOR PROGRAM ARE PROVIDED "AS IS," WITH NO WARRANTIES WHATSOEVER". Sure it would have been nice if the feature was still here in the first 4.0 release, but there is not much you can do against it when it isn't there.
If you want to be sure of things, then pay somebody to write software for you and make a contract that guarantees something will keep on being available and working.
RE: RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by nikosATH on 07-11-2006 at 09:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by MenthiX
quote:I'm sorry to say this, but it is pretty UNTHOUGHTFULL from you if you really rely this badly on freeware software...
Originally posted by nikosATH
because an UNTHOUGHTFULL programmer "chose to leave out a feature he thought was not a priority"
The EULA which you agree on while installing clearly states "MESSENGER PLUS! LIVE AND ITS SPONSOR PROGRAM ARE PROVIDED "AS IS," WITH NO WARRANTIES WHATSOEVER". Sure it would have been nice if the feature was still here in the first 4.0 release, but there is not much you can do against it when it isn't there.
If you want to be sure of things, then pay somebody to write software for you and make a contract that guarantees something will keep on being available and working.
You are 100% right... LEGALLY noone can sue this company since we all "signed" the EULA before installing...
That does also mean however that we all installed and used this software in good faith - we supported it by spreading the word all over the world and this is what made it no1 and one of the most used programs. But don't you see that the 2 examples I gave earlier are exactly the same? (there is the same EULA everywhere)
Don't you see that there are certain "ethics" in the world of computing? And finally don't you think that apart from the legal obligations (which I totally agree are 100% fulfilled) isn't there the good name and fame of the company, Patchou and all the people behind this project at stake?
What goes up can come down... it's an internet reality with hundreds of examples to prove it... it seems that this program is nearing its EOL (end of life) and I am sorry to break the news...
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by Menthix on 07-11-2006 at 09:58 AM
quote:Patchou could have done two things...
Originally posted by nikosATH
don't you think that apart from the legal obligations (which I totally agree are 100% fulfilled) isn't there the good name and fame of the company
- Get custom names and other features that are currently missing done first and release after that. Which would mean that there would't be a Messenger Plus! Live at all at this moment and you would have been unable to use Messenger Plus! for at least a few more weeks.
- Do like he did now and create a Plus! Live as feature complete as possible, but still release a few days after Windows Live MEssenger so people can actually start using WLM together with Plus! already.
Either way there will always be people who wont be happy. Patchou choose the method that he thinks will get the least people unhappy. It was all a matter of time so he could release something when WLM becomes public... because time was short not all features could be done... so he decided to give lower priority to features that already have an alternative... the two bigges examples are Custom Names (WLM has rename contact) and Quick Icons (WLM has an emoticon button). Both of these features will probably be back in later versions. In fact, Quick Icons already is back in a private beta version.... It's being tested right now and will be released soon. I'm sure Patchou will take another look at custom names too, especially since so many people are asking for it.
You could use MSN 7.5 and Plus! 3.xx for now if you really can't live without custom names. The bottom line is...
- If patchou wanted to release Plus! Live 4.00 with all the old features in it he would now still be developing and you would have needed to wait even longer before you could use Plus! with WLM.
- If patchou decided to give custom names a higher priority, then he would have needed to drop another feature and other people would have been unhappy. Because there is an alternative in WLM which does at least some of Plus!' custom names features Patchou choose to wait with custom names instead of another feature.
quote:The amount of total users is still growing every day.
Originally posted by nikosATH
it seems that this program is nearing its EOL (end of life)
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by CookieRevised on 07-11-2006 at 10:13 AM
nikosATH, what you forget is that something like the custom names isn't just a small feature to program.
Messenger Plus! Live is made entirly from scratch. Nothing is copy/pasted from the old code. Plus! Live is not a simple update of code of Plus!3. And in order to get Plus! Live released on time, some things weren't finished yet in favor of other things which got higher priority or were quicker to add. I bet if there currently wasn't a release yet for Plus! Live, because not all features were developped yet, you would complain about it too.
Not only is time a big issue here, there are also technical reasons why something isn't done yet. Patchou certaily did not include the custom names just to pester people. If it was all that easy and quick to program, it sure would have been included.
As Menthix mentionned, Plus! is a relative small freeware, programmed by 1 person. It isn't a big massive suite where hundreds of people are working on with a big company behind it.
This hasn't got anything todo with Patchou being unethical, unthoughtfull or whatever. If there is one programmer who puts his users in the first place it would be Patchou (he never would have released a Plus!Live version if he didn't care).
And Plus! is far, way far, from EOL either just because you don't like the fact that a certain feature isn't implemented yet as you liked it to be.
Yes, the custom names feature is nice, usefull and whatever, but in the end it is just a feature, not a life-saving-highly-important-critical thing. Everybody finds it a pitty that it isn't available yet, but that's how things go when a software like this needs to be programmed from scratch, released on time in public. Choices have to be made because it is all done by 1 person who also has 2 hands, 1 keyboard and 24 hours in a day and millions of impatient users who cry out for a working version for Windows Live Messenger.
It is not like there is no alternative either; you're not forced to use Windows Live Messenger and Plus! Live, you can still use Messenger 7.x and Plus!3.
Have patients patience (EDIT: lol.... damn, second time I misspelled it, thx for noticing it raceprouk... )
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by RaceProUK on 07-11-2006 at 11:58 AM
quote:Or maybe patience
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Have patients
And remember, it's still possible to format nicknames, using the same BBcode-like tags used in conversations.
b = bold
i = italic
u = underline
s = strikethrough
c = colour
a = background
With colour and background, the syntax is [c=<fadefrom>][/c=<fadeto>]
RE: RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by nikosATH on 07-11-2006 at 01:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MenthiX
quote:Patchou could have done two things...
Originally posted by nikosATH
don't you think that apart from the legal obligations (which I totally agree are 100% fulfilled) isn't there the good name and fame of the company
- Get custom names and other features that are currently missing done first and release after that. Which would mean that there would't be a Messenger Plus! Live at all at this moment and you would have been unable to use Messenger Plus! for at least a few more weeks.
- Do like he did now and create a Plus! Live as feature complete as possible, but still release a few days after Windows Live MEssenger so people can actually start using WLM together with Plus! already.
Either way there will always be people who wont be happy. Patchou choose the method that he thinks will get the least people unhappy. It was all a matter of time so he could release something when WLM becomes public... because time was short not all features could be done... so he decided to give lower priority to features that already have an alternative... the two bigges examples are Custom Names (WLM has rename contact) and Quick Icons (WLM has an emoticon button). Both of these features will probably be back in later versions. In fact, Quick Icons already is back in a private beta version.... It's being tested right now and will be released soon. I'm sure Patchou will take another look at custom names too, especially since so many people are asking for it.
You could use MSN 7.5 and Plus! 3.xx for now if you really can't live without custom names. The bottom line is...
- If patchou wanted to release Plus! Live 4.00 with all the old features in it he would now still be developing and you would have needed to wait even longer before you could use Plus! with WLM.
- If patchou decided to give custom names a higher priority, then he would have needed to drop another feature and other people would have been unhappy. Because there is an alternative in WLM which does at least some of Plus!' custom names features Patchou choose to wait with custom names instead of another feature.
quote:The amount of total users is still growing every day.
Originally posted by nikosATH
it seems that this program is nearing its EOL (end of life)
To be honest the majority of the people who use Plus were forced to do so because of the shortcomings of renaming in the original MSN - after a while you ended up with a list of silly nicknames for which you didn't have the slightest idea who could it be....
Not being able to transfer the list as it is, renders the MSN live unusuable anyway (since you never know who-is-who in your list) so either way we are stuck with MSN 7.5 and Plus at least for as long as microsoft doesn't try to FORCE us into using the 8 (which I predict will happen very soon...)
Do you think if Patchou delays any further his transfer option and if we are all forced to manually rename each and every contact in our list would EVER want to use Plus again??? That is why I am talking of an EOL... it has happened in the past with other successful "third party programs" which went terribly bad at some point... it can happen again...
I must say a "big thank" you though to all you that are taking the time to answer and discuss this matter with me and also to whoever is talking directly with the developer into (hopefully) rushing out a WORKING Plus version sometime soon.
PS I wouldn't mind paying a resonable amount of money to get a working Plus let's say "Pro" version with several extra features which can co-exist with the free one (much like the Trillian developers have already done)
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by CookieRevised on 07-11-2006 at 01:56 PM
quote:Yes, simply because the custom names feature is only one of the many features.
Originally posted by nikosATH
Do you think if Patchou delays any further his transfer option and if we are all forced to manually rename each and every contact in our list would EVER want to use Plus again???
And MS will not force people to upgrade to WLM in a long time to come. Note that WLM is ONLY for Windows XP/NT, everybody else who use another Windows version will still be able to use 7.x...
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by RaceProUK on 07-11-2006 at 03:03 PM
quote:Plus! is a working product. Just because it doesn't have a feature you want doesn't mean it's broken: all it means is that you're too impatient to wait for the feature to appear, or too lazy to do the renaming yourself. I did: it took me about 30-45 minutes.
Originally posted by nikosATH
whoever is talking directly with the developer into (hopefully) rushing out a WORKING Plus version sometime soon.
Did I mind? Yes.
Did I do it anyway? Evidently.
Do I miss Custom Contact Names? Of course I do!
Do I bitch and moan that Plus! isn't a working product as a result? Certainly not! I'm just thankful that in the next release the Personalised Status shortcuts are coming back
As far as I'm concerned, WLM has a half-decent and useable Nickname feature, where Plus! tags can be used, and Custom Contact Names can wait. For instance, say everyone bugs the Windows Live team about the Nickname feature. They then improve it, adding colours, tags, all the stuff we're used to from Plus! 3.
Now, if Patchou had coded Custom Contact Names before this, it would have been a colossal waste of time, time better spent on features that WLM doesn't even have at all, and won't for the time being. From my point of view, I'd rather see the time spent on improving the encryption/decryption performance, optimising the use of space in toasts, and extensions to the scripting engine. All of which are higher priority than Custom Contact Names.
If the Nicknames are improved enough, then it won't be long before a Custom Names to Nicknames converter is added to Plus!, since it will require less effort overall. On the other hand, if the Nicknames feature stagnates, Custom Contact Names will make a comeback.
Now, if this post has shown nothing except that people's opinions differ, I will consider the time spent on this worthwhile. However, if you feel any negativity due to what I have said, I apologise. The medium of text is sadly devoid of emotion.
Hopefully I've helped you to understand the reasoning behind some of the choices made in developing Plus! Live
Apologies for length, width, and altitude gain.
Additioinal:
quote:I wouldn't call them 'shortcomings'. I mean, it's not the developers' fault that people use their display names for anything other than their name. Hence the appearence of the Nickname feature.
Originally posted by nikosATH
because of the shortcomings of renaming in the original MSN
Plus! is, and has always been, designed to augment Messenger. It only adds, rarely replaces (logs being an exception), and basically aims to make Messenger a more complete experience.
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by just_a_name on 07-11-2006 at 05:39 PM
Some people are so ungrateful and selfish it makes me sick. Twats. Keep up the awesome work Patchou (and all you people making scripts!)
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by cybercafepro on 07-11-2006 at 07:47 PM
Actually not having the renamed contacts will cost me about a full day. I had contact names with customer numbers, so now I have to go through all my files and rename EVERY contact again.
I think it will be easier to go to a previous image and not use LIVE.
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by nikosATH on 02-21-2007 at 01:55 PM
After a year no custom names and no script to transfer the "old" plus list to MSN live.....
So I'm either stuck with MSN 7.5 (for as long as it is still working) or update to Live manually and deal with 500+ contacts over 4 different MSN accounts... GREAT!
That is a GREAT lesson from Patchou and the Plus! crew NEVER again to trust a free and independent developer for an established software 
No wonder no-one's using plus with MSN live anymore.... no need actually! MSN live has all the features...
(OK no-one except the few that will bother to answer this last message)
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by Menthix on 02-21-2007 at 02:13 PM
quote:10+ million of 15+ million total Plus! users are using Messenger Plus! Live
Originally posted by nikosATH
No wonder no-one's using plus with MSN live anymore...
.quote:I would be disappointed in your case too. But yes, it is free software, it's not like you signed a support contract or anything that says all features will always keep being available in each new version.
Originally posted by nikosATH
NEVER again to trust a free and independent developer for an established software
RE: RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by nikosATH on 02-21-2007 at 02:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MenthiX
quote:10+ million of 15+ million total Plus! users are using Messenger Plus! Live
Originally posted by nikosATH
No wonder no-one's using plus with MSN live anymore...
The total number of downloads is never the same as the number of active users... you know that perfectly as I am sure
In the past many people (incuding me) have downloaded firefox, icq etc but never actually installed them or just checked them out and got rid of them
quote:I would be disappointed in your case too. But yes, it is free software, it's not like you signed a support contract or anything that says all features will always keep being available in each new version.
Originally posted by nikosATH
NEVER again to trust a free and independent developer for an established software
I never said I wouldn't pay for let's say a "plus deluxe" version... exactly the opposite!
I am more than happy to pay a reasonable price for any piece of software that helps me...
I would probably never pay for let's say windows, but I always like to donate or pay sums up to 50$ for any helpful group of programmers trying to survive in this world of software giants.
RE: Rename Contact = Irony? by Menthix on 02-21-2007 at 02:40 PM
quote:True. But these numbers are active users. They are the number of unique IPs that used the automatic update feature in the last week. The automatic update feature checks for an update once every week.
Originally posted by nikosATH
The total number of downloads is never the same as the number of active users... you know that perfectly as I am sure (Smilie)
When looking at downloads you get around 230.000 per day.