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Your views: Life after death? by absorbation on 07-19-2006 at 07:00 PM
Well I have noticed very recently how opinionated some members of these forums can be. As a result we have had some great discussions about life which have started from random topics. So I think we can start a number of topics where you can post your opinion on a certain subject. I do think some people's views here are very good and I would like to hear them, truthfully.
So let me get the ball rolling with life after death. Do you believe in it? What do you think happens when you die? etc, I am just curious to know what some of you believe and why you believe it.
I expect Traxtor will turn racist again, Segosa to complain about religion and Time just to take the general piss 
. Btw admins keep this in GCC, it's not spam and maybe useful to refer to later on.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Thor on 07-19-2006 at 07:03 PM
hmmm, I believe it is something after death. But what, I simply don't know.
But there got to be something, it can't just be... nothing? Black screen maybe... 
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Chris4 on 07-19-2006 at 07:06 PM
I'd like to believe it, but TBH I just don't think anything supernatural is not true at the end of the day. When you die, you die. Nothing happens. Or maybe what Nitrolinken said, I don't really know. Guess we'll find out one day won't we Once your dead, you can't tell anyone about it 
So no one actually knows, just guessing
That's just my opinion, hope I didn't offend anyone.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by absorbation on 07-19-2006 at 07:10 PM
If you have ever saw somebody die, I mean someone old, in hospital kind of thing. Well it's a weird feeling seeing someone who has been here so long just stop. I mean stop, bam, gone. And then you wonder what just happened, did their brain just stop? Is it still working? Has it become something else? I mean how did we end up here, the universe is so big and complicated, something must of made it, and why is it there?
RE: Your views: Life after death? by segosa on 07-19-2006 at 07:14 PM
Well I was about to make a nice post and then I read absorbation's spot-on prediction and can't be bothered anymore.
Bah.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by vaccination on 07-19-2006 at 07:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by absorbation
If you have ever saw somebody die, I mean someone old, in hospital kind of thing. Well it's a weird feeling seeing someone who has been here so long just stop. I mean stop, bam, gone. And then you wonder what just happened, did their brain just stop? Is it still working? Has it become something else? I mean how did we end up here, the universe is so big and complicated, something must of made it, and why is it there?
Wow that's deep.
I believe that there must be something, but then again there isn't anything befor your born so what would there be after?
I suppose there isn't anyway of knowing. Maybe you get reincarnated but hmmm i doubt it.
I just don't see how you can just "STOP". I mean were do you go?
RE: Your views: Life after death? by absorbation on 07-19-2006 at 07:19 PM
It's just something we can't grasp. Death is a strange thing, it's happened to billions and billions of us, but those still here still don't know what happens. People are afraid of death, but if your not existing anymore, what is there to be afraid of?
quote:Still post it. I want everyone's views no matter what you believe
Originally posted by segosa
Well I was about to make a nice post and then I read absorbation's spot-on prediction and can't be bothered anymore.
Bah.
.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Thor on 07-19-2006 at 07:21 PM
Hmmm... I sometimes wonder how the universe started. A couple years ago some in my family died in a fire... Usually we used to sim him everyday, and suddenly it was so empty..
And noone lives to tell the tale.. 
RE: Your views: Life after death? by dramado on 07-19-2006 at 07:22 PM
where do you go when you die?
where did you come from before you were born?
a dead body is simply a broken human. we're like machines. I don't believe anything happens.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by segosa on 07-19-2006 at 07:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by absorbation
quote:Still post it. I want everyone's views no matter what you believe
Originally posted by segosa
Well I was about to make a nice post and then I read absorbation's spot-on prediction and can't be bothered anymore.
Bah.
I haven't got enough energy to think right now, so no.
Anyway...
Why? Why does there have to be something? Why can't people accept that you die? Why does everyone constantly look for a reason? A reason for living: God. A reason for dying: the afterlife/heaven. Maybe people are so afraid of death that they need to come up with a reason not to be afraid of it.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Thor on 07-19-2006 at 07:27 PM
quote:Yeah.
Originally posted by segosa
Why, why does there have to be something. Why can't people accept that you die. Why does everyone constantly look for "something else"? Maybe people are so afraid of death that they have to manufacture a reason why there's nothing wrong with death.
I'm not afraid of death, I'm just very corious. When it stops, does it just stop, and how does it feel? I mean, it has to be something that happens, it can't just be a black sky, can it? But still we're kinda like machines, just the fact that we're smarter.
And I've been thinking on; how does it feel the moment your heart slows down? The last moment of life, and... just... shutdown.
RE: RE: Your views: Life after death? by segosa on 07-19-2006 at 07:42 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrolinken
When it stops, does it just stop, and how does it feel? I mean, it has to be something that happens, it can't just be a black sky, can it?
When you're sleeping, do you see black sky? No, so why would dying be any different. Only difference being that we can't dream when we're dead because we're, well, dead.
quote:
And I've been thinking on; how does it feel the moment your heart slows down? The last moment of life, and... just... shutdown. (Smilie)
Indeed, that's something I wonder too.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by qgroessl on 07-19-2006 at 07:48 PM
quote:most of the time you don't know if it is or isn't.... I believe in reincarnation.... But I also believe no matter what our memory is swiped clean, but yet in the deepest part of our minds (instincts) we still remember.... Also with reincarnation i think there is a vague thing that connects your past life with your new life... and your new life to your future life... and sooner or later you'll find out but not know it.
Originally posted by Nitrolinken
And I've been thinking on; how does it feel the moment your heart slows down? The last moment of life, and... just... shutdown
RE: Your views: Life after death? by vaccination on 07-19-2006 at 07:49 PM
Yeh i get you segosa. When we sleep our brains go mostly dead(inactive). So when we die and we go completely brain dead the we won't see anything either, TBH you need the electric pulse running through your body to do anything once that goes nothing happens. You would have no brain power to interpret what your eyes see, you wouldn't even have working eyes they wouldn't anything.
For something after death you need to have some sort of spiritual side of you in which you can somehow live on.
I'm not sure whether we have a spiritual side and it's a question i have been fighting myself over for many years.
Or any kind of other side, Which can live on. I highly doubt it being possible though.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by segosa on 07-19-2006 at 07:59 PM
quote:
To do anything after death you have to believe you have a spiritual side of you in which you can somehow live on.
Sounds like the typical preaching of God: sure, we can prove God exists, you just need to believe in him first.
I'm sorry but saying that you'll only live on if you believe it is bullshit. It's just a way to keep it impossible to prove that God or the afterlife doesn't exist (latter harder though of course).
"Hey, he didn't speak to you because you don't believe in him!"
Right.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by vaccination on 07-19-2006 at 08:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by segosa
Sounds like the typical preaching of God: sure, we can prove God exists, you just need to believe in him first.
I'm sorry but saying that you'll only live on if you believe it is bullshit. It's just a way to keep it impossible to prove that God or the afterlife doesn't exist (latter harder though of course).
"Hey, he didn't speak to you because you don't believe in him!"
Right.
Opps soz i was ment to edit that out before i posted.
I'm totally against the whole god thing. The simple fact that he apparently made the world in 7 days (according to Christianity)
is strange seeming as we made up the whole seven day a week thing ages after the universe was made and the like! It's bull i tell you, BULL!
RE: Your views: Life after death? by user27089 on 07-19-2006 at 08:12 PM
I don't believe in god, in that aspect I'm an atheist. I don't believe in spirits, ghosts etc.
However, it's impossible to imagine nothing... Therefore imagining what happens after death is impossible. I don't believe that we can just stop, nothing just disappears like that... There always has to be something next, I'm not sure what it will be though... It might be a "heaven", although it could also be a different state of mind, ie. something similar to dreaming.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by segosa on 07-19-2006 at 08:13 PM
For those who're interested take a look at this:
http://141592653589.org/video/TheWayOfTheMaster.avi
It's a 30 min video basically telling you that it requires more faith to be an atheist than to believe in God. It's really well done, it even got me wondering for a few minutes after I'd seen it.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Thor on 07-19-2006 at 08:16 PM
quote:To say my opinion about god; I don't believe there is one (no offence).
Originally posted by vaccination
quote:
Originally posted by segosa
Sounds like the typical preaching of God: sure, we can prove God exists, you just need to believe in him first.
I'm sorry but saying that you'll only live on if you believe it is bullshit. It's just a way to keep it impossible to prove that God or the afterlife doesn't exist (latter harder though of course).
"Hey, he didn't speak to you because you don't believe in him!"
Right.
Opps soz i was ment to edit that out before i posted.
I'm totally against the whole god thing. The simple fact that he apparently made the world in 7 days (according to Christianity)
is strange seeming as we made up the whole seven day a week thing ages after the universe was made and the like! It's bull i tell you, BULL!
I just believe that life is life, I see no point in why a god should exist, and when it comes to how the world came to a start, I believe in the "Big Bang".
And, how can there be a god? Well, if people don't believe there's a god, then they'll not believe so. What people believe is very important, how you are and how you think and act, defines you. And if you believe in Jesus, that he did (whatever he did) in real life, then I believe that it's up to that person. We don't have bulletproof proof for a god, or no god, and if we had, there would still be people that believed in it anyways.
And if you believe hard enough that there's a tree infront of you; you will eventually (my spelling suck
) think so. Your thoughts is you, and how you believe.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by saralk on 07-19-2006 at 08:17 PM
I don't think that there is an afterlife in a spiritual sense, I don't think that everyone has a soul that hovers between body to body. Sentient thought is nothing more than chemicals going through your brain.
However, I do think there is an afterlife, when you die, you decompose, nutrients and materials from your body leak into the surrounding area of your final resting place, and this stuff will be used in trees and plants etc... these will then make their way through the cycle, they could be eaten by animals, or they could just die, but either way the composition of your body will be used for years after your life ended.
In another though, isn't it weird that you could be breating the same molecule of oxygen as Martin Luther King once did?
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ShawnZ on 07-19-2006 at 08:23 PM
Trying to explain what happens after death would involve explaining conciousness and how our brain works, so i'd like to keep it short... Your brain is constantly "going", and recording memories. You die, and it isn't anymore, and all your memories and feelings are gone forever. Though, there is one thing I can't comprehend -- if you fall into a coma or become unconcious, is waking up essentially starting a new life with the same memories?
quote:
Originally posted by saralk
In another though, isn't it weird that you could be breating the same molecule of oxygen as Martin Luther King once did?
To be fair, all of them would have been converted to other substances or split apart so many times, it probably couldn't even be classed as the same molecule anymore
RE: Your views: Life after death? by gif83 on 07-19-2006 at 08:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ShawnZ
if you fall into a coma or become unconcious, is waking up essentially starting a new life with the same memories?
that's the same as sleep... you're still alive
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ShawnZ on 07-19-2006 at 08:29 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gif83
quote:
Originally posted by ShawnZ
if you fall into a coma or become unconcious, is waking up essentially starting a new life with the same memories?
that's the same as sleep... you're still alive
its not exactly the same. during sleep, you're very concious. in a coma, you essentially "stop."
RE: Your views: Life after death? by vaccination on 07-19-2006 at 08:29 PM
What about when your brain dead? Are you still living? technically your organs are still operating.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by absorbation on 07-19-2006 at 08:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrolinken
I'm totally against the whole god thing. The simple fact that he apparently made the world in 7 days (according to Christianity)
is strange seeming as we made up the whole seven day a week thing ages after the universe was made and the like! It's bull i tell you, BULL!
You don't know Christianity then. The accepted beleft it either the 'design' theory or the 'causation' theory, all which make some sence. Like most Bible stories, they have symbolism behind them and well as tradition.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by gif83 on 07-19-2006 at 08:34 PM
quote:since when have you been concious in your sleep?
Originally posted by ShawnZ
quote:
Originally posted by gif83
quote:
Originally posted by ShawnZ
if you fall into a coma or become unconcious, is waking up essentially starting a new life with the same memories?
that's the same as sleep... you're still alive
its not exactly the same. during sleep, you're very concious. in a coma, you essentially "stop."
RE: Your views: Life after death? by lizard.boy on 07-19-2006 at 08:36 PM
Being as i was raised as a roman/ukranian catholic, it's kinda hard for me to think that there isn't a life after death. I guess when you think of it there isn't really a possibility to be alive outside of he human body. I would say that your views come from whats around you, and what you were tought.
I do however belive that the whole idea of life after death does make it easier for us to handle death, for example, I'm sure that it would be much easier to tell a young child that "Don't worry, Grandma is with God now, it's better there." vs "Sorry jimmy, Grandmas gone, you'll never see her again."
RE: Your views: Life after death? by vaccination on 07-19-2006 at 08:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by absorbation
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrolinken
I'm totally against the whole god thing. The simple fact that he apparently made the world in 7 days (according to Christianity)
is strange seeming as we made up the whole seven day a week thing ages after the universe was made and the like! It's bull i tell you, BULL!
You don't know Christianity then. The accepted beleft it either the 'design' theory or the 'causation' theory, all which make some sence. Like most Bible stories, they have symbolism behind them and well as tradition.
I'm sorry, my bad.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Thor on 07-19-2006 at 08:39 PM
quote:Yeah, that's how it was.
Originally posted by absorbation
quote:
Originally posted by Nitrolinken
I'm totally against the whole god thing. The simple fact that he apparently made the world in 7 days (according to Christianity)
is strange seeming as we made up the whole seven day a week thing ages after the universe was made and the like! It's bull i tell you, BULL!
You don't know Christianity then. The accepted beleft it either the 'design' theory or the 'causation' theory, all which make some sence. Like most Bible stories, they have symbolism behind them and well as tradition.
But, err... You quoted wrong... I didn't post that...
RE: Your views: Life after death? by absorbation on 07-19-2006 at 08:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
I'm sorry, my bad.
lol it's ok, when people hear Christians they automatically think brainwashed people who believe everything the Bible says. That's why there are so many different types of Christians, because of the way they interpretate the Bible
.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by qgroessl on 07-19-2006 at 09:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ShawnZ
Trying to explain what happens after death would involve explaining conciousness and how our brain works, so i'd like to keep it short... Your brain is constantly "going", and recording memories. You die, and it isn't anymore, and all your memories and feelings are gone forever. Though, there is one thing I can't comprehend -- if you fall into a coma or become unconcious, is waking up essentially starting a new life with the same memories?
Hence my theory of reincarnation... You'll basically wake up, in a different body, with no memories except those that are your instincts in life.
Never really thought about how you get into a different body.... possibly the 4th dimension?
RE: Your views: Life after death? by M73A on 07-19-2006 at 09:25 PM
i believe that you die , your heart stoips, your brain gets no blood/oxygen, you stop thinking... and thats it, you just stop living.... your dead!
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Supersonicdarky on 07-19-2006 at 10:42 PM
i believe in the scientific reasoning for everything, so i say that there isnt life after death, tho i sometimes dream about it ![[Image: msn_tongue.gif]](http://shoutbox.menthix.net/images/smilies/msn_tongue.gif)
(cuz i'm somewhat afrain of dying (slight Thanatophobia))
tho i kinds believe in phycicness (predicting future) because i my self have predicted what i'd see or do in the future multiple times already...
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Chrono on 07-19-2006 at 11:15 PM
quote:That's exactly the whole point, seg. Humans need something to believe in, in order to have a "happy" life or whatever you wanna call it. It's not that they're really afraid of death, they need the feeling that what they do in their lifes will be useful somehow. There's a religion out there (cant remember which one
Originally posted by segosa
Why? Why does there have to be something? Why can't people accept that you die? Why does everyone constantly look for a reason? A reason for living: God. A reason for dying: the afterlife/heaven. Maybe people are so afraid of death that they need to come up with a reason not to be afraid of it.
) that says that if you do good in this life, you'll have a better next life (and if you do bad/evil/whatever, you'll have a worse one). You'd think 'why would you want to believe in something like that?'. The answer is quite simple: it gives you a reason to live and do your best at whatever you wanna do or be .In my opinion, religion is there for people to have a reason of living. Catholics for example will be good in order to get to heaven
.i'm atheist btw
edited:
quote:afaik, the pope says already that it was a metaphor
Originally posted by vaccination
I'm totally against the whole god thing. The simple fact that he apparently made the world in 7 days (according to Christianity)
RE: Your views: Life after death? by gif83 on 07-19-2006 at 11:22 PM
OK.. may as well write my "views" on this issue...
Life is a strange thing to start off with... here. life means some form of conciousness or awareness of self as opposed to just the opposite of dead...
This conciousness, according to what humans observe, appears to emerge from the complexity of a network.. all the small things that make us who we are mentally are also physical... in the same way that a file on a computer may be nothing more than digital data stored on a physical object, it represents far more than a series of 1's and 0's ....
death seems to occur when there is a breakdown in the network such that the whole system can no longer function as a whole... what we perceive as conciousness may change... we can only peceive what our network allows us to.. we cannot know any more than that... so at any given point, we would never "feel" any less "alive" in death.
Now here come some more interesting (to some people) stuff...
had this conversation with someone ... once.. i think.. where it was mentioned that there would be brain activity long after people are proclaimed dead... now.. dreams wehave in our sleep seem to have no sense of time... a day in your dream may pass in a mere second in "real life" .. so it was proposed that perhaps you could live a lifetime in your dream after you "die"... cop out? perhaps. but a kind of nice romantic idea... (in comparison to the "we are robots and when we're broken, that's it" sort of idea)
some form of life after death cannot yet be proved now if ever... and belief in any one idea may very well be true... science is as flawed as religion in my eyes as it is dependent on an interpretation of observations made. why not believe in something after death? it's what we as humans are great at... storytelling and hypotheses.. dicussions and debates... it all makes life worth living.
myself? i'm boring and don't believe in any one thing in particular and am open to anything. I don't believe my lack of commitment to any religion, faith or belief makes me any less strong a person... i am not atheist nor agnostic... i just perceive "life" through my own eyes.
what i won't mind doing is making up different stories of what life may be after death if there be such a thing....
perhaps the broken down network would have similar properties to networks of a similar nature... the "conciousness" of a cookie may have the same basic network structure as the fat from my left buttcheek... perhaps that which remained there may have the same feelings as a cookie... cookie heaven... where all cookies go and swim in seas of milk and tea....
you get the idea..
RE: Your views: Life after death? by lrac522 on 07-20-2006 at 12:46 AM
Very interesting topic. I myself think about what really happens when someone dies. I kinda believe that life is given to new born randomly after death so it would be as if you were reborn which erases everything after death. I could be wrong but nobody really knows what really happen after death.
Hi all...
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Chris4 on 07-20-2006 at 12:49 AM
quote:That's what I think... I think.
Originally posted by M73A
i believe that you die , your heart stoips, your brain gets no blood/oxygen, you stop thinking... and thats it, you just stop living.... your dead!
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Lou on 07-20-2006 at 01:41 AM
Here's my opinion/theory, which btw takes me a lot of nerve to right seeing as death is a dangerous subject with me:
When your computer dies, it just stops working. It's got no magical powers to keep wandering around your house, invisible. I think we are the same. We have no magical powers, therefore no "souls" which let us wander around as "ghosts" to annoy/help people.
This also means that if you die, and have no soul, you dont go down into the earth's core (which btw would probably melt even "souls"). This would also mean your unexistant "soul" also does not go into the heavens (which are "above the clouds") as noone in a plane/jet/spaceship has ever heard secret voices or anything dodgy happening up there. This would of course happen if someone flew a plane through where "god(s)" live(s)
Therefore, if my theory is true, when someone dies, their body simply stops functioning, and with future technology, if the body has enough parts to normally keep going, people could probably be brought back to life (if their brain was able to hold thoughts/knowledge)
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Joa on 07-20-2006 at 01:53 AM
i used to think about it, and i believed a lot of things in my time...
my point of view about this keeps on changing
i'm kinda in between... i don't really lose anything either way there's no way to prove either one of those things. people don't just come back from the dead and go on the news telling others what happens.
i like to think... that maybe we are reborn/recycled? it's something that is actually a fact in a sense , so i actually DO believe in it... technically we are... our bodies at least. but if that's all there is to us, than in a sense WE are reborn.. when we decompose, or are burnt and turn to dust, we become a part of the earth which is used to grow all kinds of other things and people... it's this cycle that goes on forever.. so maybe we are always alive in a sense. i mean what are we really? we are made up of so many cells that are all alive and working independently, made up of living organs that can be transplanted.. but are dependent on a bigger systems that they and others make up. just like we are dependent on the earth, the other planets, and our universe. think about it... what you think is so unique about you could actually be something an emu ate at one point ............................ and that's the end of joa's blabbing.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ShawnZ on 07-20-2006 at 01:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by UTI
possibly the 4th dimension?
the fourth dimension is, logically, a spacial dimension like the rest of them.
RE: RE: Your views: Life after death? by Supersonicdarky on 07-20-2006 at 02:22 AM
quote:actually 4th dimention usually means time...
Originally posted by ShawnZ
quote:
Originally posted by UTI
possibly the 4th dimension?
the fourth dimension is, logically, a spacial dimension like the rest of them.
also: what is the point of life? :/ so what, we get born, we live, we die. there is no point to it other than survival...
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ddunk on 07-20-2006 at 02:44 AM
quote:Procreation, just like every other species.
Originally posted by Supersonicdarky
also: what is the point of life? :/ so what, we get born, we live, we die. there is no point to it other than survival...
RE: RE: Your views: Life after death? by Supersonicdarky on 07-20-2006 at 02:48 AM
quote:i meant what is the point of that? so what if all species keep reproducing and somehow they all survive for ever (even tho they cant since sun will die in about 5 billion years), then what?
Originally posted by Ddunk
quote:Procreation, just like every other species.
Originally posted by Supersonicdarky
also: what is the point of life? :/ so what, we get born, we live, we die. there is no point to it other than survival...
RE: Your views: Life after death? by qgroessl on 07-20-2006 at 05:06 AM
quote:Time travel...
Originally posted by Supersonicdarky
actually 4th dimention usually means time...
... I dunno... Our souls travel through time and space to another body....It's like stories of people who died and "seen the light" where they say it's as if they're lifted from their bodies and see themselves in third person... well, they are moving through time to another body, when if they're brought back to life, they get sucked back into it... People who can't find another body cause they never found the connection between their past-life and their new life (see my first post for that) will be stuck somewhere in between, in what we'd call ghosts.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by welshboy222 on 07-20-2006 at 05:16 AM
Every species must come to an end even humans, the dinosaurs met their end and so must we.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Weyzza on 07-20-2006 at 05:35 AM
UTI, if there is such thing as reincarnation, how come the world's population keeps increasing?
RE: Your views: Life after death? by John Anderton on 07-20-2006 at 07:23 AM
quote:Hmmm well said
Originally posted by segosa
Why? Why does there have to be something? Why can't people accept that you die? Why does everyone constantly look for a reason? A reason for living: God. A reason for dying: the afterlife/heaven. Maybe people are so afraid of death that they need to come up with a reason not to be afraid of it.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ShawnZ on 07-20-2006 at 07:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Supersonicdarky
actually 4th dimention usually means time...
wrong. there are several different definitions for the fourth dimension. the two main theories are that its either a spacial dimension or time. but why time? the only dimensions we know are spacial dimensions -- in fact, thats the definition of dimension. why add all kinds of zany other types of dimensions?!
RE: Your views: Life after death? by John Anderton on 07-20-2006 at 08:41 AM
quote:Lets talk about it in 5 billion years shall we? Live life in the moment. Planning about the future is good, everyone does (well should) do it. But that doesnt mean thinking of what you will do 5 billion years when the sun burns out and the earth will be a barren land due to the suns expansion and eating up of Mercury and Venus.
Originally posted by Supersonicdarky
i meant what is the point of that? so what if all species keep reproducing and somehow they all survive for ever (even tho they cant since sun will die in about 5 billion years), then what?
You obviously aint going to be alive then. You should be worried about global warming, pollution, ending of resources etc as a more important threat tbh
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Vimto on 07-20-2006 at 09:14 AM
I don't know if there is a heaven or hell or whatever. But I believe that our soul or energy goes onto someone else or something else. I hope that we do live on. I believe in all the ghost stuff "Unfinished business". I want to come back as an animal 
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ShawnZ on 07-20-2006 at 09:31 AM
quote:
Originally posted by .Vimto.
I believe that our soul or energy goes onto someone else or something else.
well yes, molecules don't just appear and vanish, they change
RE: Your views: Life after death? by andrewdodd13 on 07-20-2006 at 10:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by welshboy222
Every species must come to an end even humans, the dinosaurs met their end and so must we.
Except I'm pretty sure that Dinosaurs couldn't do things like immaculate conception, etc. We could probably survive anything thrown at us atm
.Unless you believe in the Big Crash theory
I agree with the people that say we just stop. But, on the other hand, I'm gonna present an alternate theory (which makes my head hurt just thinking about it).
How can you prove that other beings are concious? You percieve them to be concious, but that's only your perception. How can you prove that everything around you isn't just a dream or a faulty perception?
To digress about perception, the easiest example is colour. For example, look at the following sentence:
red green blue.
Now, we all see that as going red, blue, green. But how can you tell that what you see as red is what every one else sees as red? Assuming that another persons colours were flipped right round (mixing colours wouldn't work otherwise) then it's possible that someone else sees that as my blue, then my green, then my red.
* andrewdodd13 has a sore head already.
Anyway, back on track. How can you tell that when you die, everything around you won't cease to exist either?
The main reason we can't explain death is because no one that's dead has ever been able to explain it to us.
But in theory, the human cortex is just like a Hard Disk with a couple of thousand terabytes of space. So, if we were able to decipher how information was stored there, and stop it from decomposing after death, we would be able to read someone's thoughts after they were dead. (Barring any moral and ethical problems, of course).
And as someone already said, people believe in God and such because they need something to live for. I imagine it's pretty hard for people giving up their faith in religions and moving to atheism, because all the time they'd be thinking "Why am I doing this?".
* andrewdodd13 has a sore head now.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ayjay on 07-20-2006 at 10:49 AM
"You" and everything that makes "you" is nothing but a series of electrical impulses. EVERYTHING that is you is in the pink thing inside your head. When you die, there is nothing to power the electrical impulses therefore the pink thing stops functioning and everything that was "you" is over. People talk about souls but that's just religious crap In what way can a soul exist? If, in some magical way, it did, it wouldn't have any of the thoughts, memories or anything that makes what you are. They are specific to your brain and nothing can ever take them out or present them in any other way at all.
On the other hand, I don't understand how people are comparing us to computers, using that as proof that when we die we stop. Computers don't develop a personality, a sense of being, true consciousness of what or who they are or the world around them. We are pretty unique organisms in that sense. While I don't see this as a reason to believe we have a soul, or do anything other than decompose when we die, it does add another aspect to it other than "we die, we stop".
Btw, gif83, I find your theory very interesting It can take just milliseconds for the chain of enough electrical signals to give the impression of a whole life to happen. Although, while the brain is still working for these milliseconds for it to happen in, we aren't technically dead, so it still doesn't resemble life after death.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Sunshine on 07-20-2006 at 10:51 AM
All depends on wether you believe souls can exist without a body or not i think...reincarnation...not sure about that one, if there is it would be human to human only (past lives theory)...
I do believe a soul can be independent of a body seeing as souls/minds can communicate with another without a body having to be there.....and yes i know this sounds freaky but this goes for souls of the living and the souls of the dead...
Sadly this isn't much comfort to those having lost a loved one because one thing you can't do with a soul/spirit...and that's hold it physicly...
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Lou on 07-20-2006 at 11:55 AM
quote:Well I guess it could be possible if we kill species of animals and they reincarnate into humans.
Originally posted by thekid
UTI, if there is such thing as reincarnation, how come the world's population keeps increasing?
RE: RE: Your views: Life after death? by xa0s on 07-20-2006 at 12:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dramado
where do you go when you die?
where did you come from before you were born?
a dead body is simply a broken human. we're like machines. I don't believe anything happens.
Indeed. Before you're born, and when you die, you're conscious of nothing.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by qgroessl on 07-20-2006 at 03:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by thekid
UTI, if there is such thing as reincarnation, how come the world's population keeps increasing?
I'm a catholic so i believe in God.... (not a strict catholic though I hate church)... But you know, some how the first two people made their way onto earth, so God has to assist in making some people... and he hasn't stopped... By reincarnation it keeps the population about the same, but then with God/nature also creating more human beings by themselves.
I say God/nature because I don't accept how God created Adam and Eve, I believe in evolution.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by absorbation on 07-20-2006 at 03:41 PM
quote:
Originally posted by UTI
I say God/nature because I don't accept how God created Adam and Eve, I believe in evolution.
The theory of causation is that God created the big bang, which created the universe. But then we ask, who or what made God?
RE: Your views: Life after death? by welshboy222 on 07-20-2006 at 03:43 PM
I believe that some of the things in the bible are not true for instance Adam and eve and maybe about the creation of the world. Also how did the people who wrote the bible know about the creation of the world?
RE: Your views: Life after death? by GiantSpider on 07-20-2006 at 04:41 PM
My views on life after death? There better fucking be one. What's the point in actually doing this (life) to take a loada shit all the time, work dead end jobs, knowing that there is nothing afterwards. Scares me to be honest.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by welshboy222 on 07-20-2006 at 04:43 PM
You have a good point!
RE: Your views: Life after death? by marissa on 07-20-2006 at 05:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by welshboy222
I believe that some of the things in the bible are not true for instance Adam and eve and maybe about the creation of the world. Also how did the people who wrote the bible know about the creation of the world?
i think adam and eve are just a like the mom and dad of all living. "and adam called his wife's name eve; because she was the mother of all living" so it's giving people the answer to why people are on this earth. like adam and eve made babies, and their babies had babies and their babies had babies and so on, theres pages and pages in Genisis talking about who made who and shit. i think the bible just gives people ideas of how stuff started and everything. just ideas...like maybe one day a beast will rise outta the water with 10 heads or wahtever, but it could just be a metaphore for the end of the world. ideas for people.
yeah i swear and shit and i dont go to church but im reading the bible right now and i guess its just for ideas and answers for me...i dont know.
i guess i used to think i didnt believe in god and all that stuff because i didnt want to think someone was up there controlling us and shit but when i swore in church one time i felt bad becuase i still had thoughts of the guy up there and i had sinned, but i had only felt real bad swearing in church. then i forgot about it.
i guess ive only really started to believe in god a lot was when we got in a cara ccident a few weeks ago when we hit a deer and i was shocked, and then i started crying and asking god why this happened and then i stopped and realised no one got hurt and i thanked him for days, any time i had a chance id just sit and pray and thank him
it's weird because before i really had no thoughts of the guy upstairs, but when shit like that happens...i dunno
i dont make sense
sorry...kindaofftopic
ANYWAYS..., life after death...
quote:
Originally posted by GiantSpider
My views on life after death? There better fucking be one. What's the point in actually doing this (life) to take a loada shit all the time, work dead end jobs, knowing that there is nothing afterwards. Scares me to be honest.
it scares me too becuase yeah, we've been living and stuff, we've met people and we've done things and when we die thats just for nothing? its gone? im scared that when i die it's just gonna be black, and i dont wanna forget things ive done in life. and i dont wanna come back as another person if i have to forget all the things ive done in this lifetime. i dont want a physical life i want a spirit life. i think id rather just be a spirit so i can go around and see how my familys doing and all my friends are and stuff, and so i can visit friends and family up in heaven...or hell...haha i dunno
i just dont wanna be bored.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ins4ne on 07-20-2006 at 05:16 PM
Life after death? hum... good question... there isnt anything... i dont believe in afterlife... sure it could be that there is garden eden with thousands of beautiful angels waiting for me and all that but it could also be eternal darkness...
RE: Your views: Life after death? by welshboy222 on 07-20-2006 at 05:33 PM
Maybe you just dream in the afterlife that would be sweet!
RE: Your views: Life after death? by gif83 on 07-20-2006 at 06:01 PM
just wanna throw a second relevant question into the mix...
for those that do believe in an afterlife, do you consider it to be eternal or cyclic or what? obviously those that believe in reincarnation will think that it will last as long as the life or the next incarnation lasts... and so on.. but what of the others?
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ins4ne on 07-20-2006 at 06:08 PM
quote:i want to dream forever
Originally posted by welshboy222
Maybe you just dream in the afterlife that would be sweet!
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Tasha on 07-20-2006 at 06:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by marissa
quote:
Originally posted by GiantSpider
My views on life after death? There better fucking be one. What's the point in actually doing this (life) to take a loada shit all the time, work dead end jobs, knowing that there is nothing afterwards. Scares me to be honest.
it scares me too becuase yeah, we've been living and stuff, we've met people and we've done things and when we die thats just for nothing? its gone? im scared that when i die it's just gonna be black, and i dont wanna forget things ive done in life. and i dont wanna come back as another person if i have to forget all the things ive done in this lifetime. i dont want a physical life i want a spirit life. i think id rather just be a spirit so i can go around and see how my familys doing and all my friends are and stuff, and so i can visit friends and family up in heaven...or hell...haha i dunno
i just dont wanna be bored.
Yuh, I know what you two mean, I feel the exact same way, and I don't want to be thinking "when you're dead, you're dead" and that's it... It scares me so much. I don't want to live this life to have it all disappear into nothing... I suppose it's a whole I don't want to forget thing... I don't want to never see people I love who are younger than me grow up and everything like that... I want to believe that somehow, we go on living, a bit like ghosts, but not the same thing... Kinda we're just there watching over people, and we can see what happens, and we can also see people who are also dead and shit... Gah. This topic freaks me out... =(
I've thought of reincarnation because of deja vu... I mean, yuh, a lot of the time you eventually remember whats happened before or whatever, but sometimes you just don't know... At least with me. I mean, I can see someone, or speak to someone, and be sure I've seen them or spoken to them before... But I *know* I haven't... So sometimes I think we've been here before, and we've met this people before, and we already know them, and deja vu is kind of memories from a past life, but a life you don't ever remember living... Bah... But I don't like the thought of reincarnation, because it's forgetting.
People get scared because it's the unknown, and you can't prove anything to do with life after death. You don't know what happens, therefore it scares you really. Well, some people can't wait for death, which is completely weird tbh. But yeah, the unknown scares people... It scares me for sure. I'd love to know what happens after you die... How it feels and everything... I don't really believe all this white-light stuff, and seeing the pearly gates, but I do believe in spirits and ghosts... Spirits more than ghosts, but ghosts also.
Didn't someone say something to do with spirits moving on, but ghosts are like, people who still have something left in the world that they need to fix or whatever? Then when they sort that, they too will move on? I think that's a kind of good theory, which goes along with "haunted" houses... I mean, ghosts always seem to be around the same house don't they, that's why the house is haunted, it's not like they float around the earth, so I think they have like "unfinished business" in that certain place... Bah, I'm rambling, but it makes sense to me at least.
Hum... Just my thoughts on a topic that scares me very very much. I do like gif's theory too though.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by marissa on 07-20-2006 at 06:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tasha
so I think they have like "unfinished business" in that certain place
hahha casper
i wanna be like casper and interact with people
oh yeah, and the reincarnation thing...if you think we're going to come as another person with different thoughts and stuff...well thats kinda what we are then.
shit i dont make sense
RE: Your views: Life after death? by absorbation on 07-20-2006 at 07:41 PM
Mr.G wants to say this :
quote:
Hello absorbation
I usually can access some bits of the forum and I read your post,
what I feel is going to happen the moment you die is that your spirit
is coming out of your neck and becomes like a ghost and then and
as I feel like it will be beside your body till you are put in grave and
then when no one is there and it's silence 3 angels will come and ask
you 3 question 1. What is your religion 2. Who is your prophet and 3.
Do you believe in God and him if you answer bravely then I guess they
will show you your place in heaven and if you was like afraid in your
answers you will be shown your place in hell.
OR
They will come and show you your list of Good & Bad stuff you did in
life if what you did Good is more than the Bad you did you will be shown
your place in heaven and if your Bad stuff are more you will be shown your
place in Hell and then your sole will be released till the day that earth is
going to be destroyed in... and then you'll go to where you will be (Heaven/Hell).
PS: Am not sure weather this is true or not but that’s what I think is going
to happen!
I hope my answer isn't complicated and you are most welcome to post it
in the forum.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ayjay on 07-20-2006 at 10:25 PM
quote:
Originally posted by absorbation/Mr.G
Mr.G wants to say this.......
What... nice theories. It's a shame that they're completely ridiculous. I was actually laughing like hell as I read them
RE: Your views: Life after death? by GiantSpider on 07-20-2006 at 10:30 PM
It's got it pretty mapped out hasn't he.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by prashker on 07-20-2006 at 10:41 PM
Untill I see it for my own eyes ......
It's fake
RE: Your views: Life after death? by haydos on 07-21-2006 at 03:44 AM
quote:I feel that we do just 'stop'... sure, our body is still there, it may even look exactly as it did before we died (for a short while) but the difference is that it isn't working.
Originally posted by traxor
I don't believe that we can just stop, nothing just disappears like that...
Think of a toy with batteries. The batteries run out, and it stops working. It hasn't gone anywhere or 'disappeared' at all.
Note: The above is not an analogy upon my opinion of death, rather an analogy of how we don't disappear
quote:That's exactly what I think, people will believe what's most convienient for them, whether it's true or not.
Originally posted by lizard.boy
I do however belive that the whole idea of life after death does make it easier for us to handle death
quote:This is where theories and things get to me. Reincarnation; it's a very 'hopeful' way of thinking. If you have no memories of your past life, and past body, what brings you to the conclusion that you have been reincarnated?
Originally posted by UTI
Hence my theory of reincarnation... You'll basically wake up, in a different body, with no memories except those that are your instincts in life.
Hypothetically, if reincarnation were possible, and every time you died you came back in a body, we would have a bit of a drama. Let's assume that 200 000 people die today, let's also assume that 280 000 people are born today. Where did these extra 80 000 'souls' come from? Are some people now living two lives? I personally feel that logic rules out any possibility of reincarnation. (edit before post: I kept reading and thekid already mentioned this
)As for your idea that you will have basic life instincts 'from a past life', I tend to disagree... people are born with attributes similar to their parents and other family. This of course due to genes. Any instincts you have you are born with, or they are 'taught' (conciously or subconciously) into you from a young age.
quote:I personally don't work a dead end job to achieve something after my death. I work to live, and to enjoy my life while it's going.
Originally posted by GiantSpider
What's the point in actually doing this (life) to take a loada shit all the time, work dead end jobs, knowing that there is nothing afterwards.
------------
I think marissa has a great point of view, being able to look over someone after your dead, and not for everything to just 'end', but again, I think it's just something hopeful - thought up for piece of mind.
People see life after death through two different perspectives. Physical, such as reincarnation, and spiritual, such as looking on from above etc. I tend to see everyone's opinion of being able to live after death as these apparent 'spirits'.
Everyone knows, once we die our body will decompose away etc. The idea that these particals can then go into the soil which seeps into the river which is drunk by a horse which goes to the toilet leaving manure which is used in a garden.... etc etc etc. Sure, our particals won't just disappear. But it doesn't make whoever we end up "in" any more "us", they are just using our 'parts'. Let's say, for argument' sake, while living, one of us transplanted our finger to another living person. Are we living two lives? We are a part of them after all.
Basically, yes, we are a part of people after death, but I don't think this can be considered 'life' after death.
As for such theories as our spirits or souls living on, I don't believe in that at all... I don't value such theories as they don't have a scientific backing. Call me one-eyed, but I personally need logic to believe in such things as god(s), life after death, and creation etc... I don't want to venture into the does god exist argument in this thread so I'll leave this part of the argument as is.
edit: I forgot to add how much I agree with what ajd was saying, but I'm too lazy to put that into detail...
-------------
quote:As much as Mr. G can be annoying, and as rediculous as his theories may seem to you and me, he is entitled to his own opinion on how things work.
Originally posted by ajd
quote:
Originally posted by absorbation/Mr.G
Mr.G wants to say this.......
What... nice theories. It's a shame that they're completely ridiculous. I was actually laughing like hell as I read them
hmmmm, a bit of an essay by me here, enjoy reading it all
RE: Your views: Life after death? by Chrono on 07-21-2006 at 05:47 AM
For those of you who dont believe in reincarnation, souls and that kind of stuff, read this, it's interesting :
quote:
... "It's completely natural," I say, "to think of Europeans who believed in ghosts or Indians who believed in ghosts as ignorant. The scientific point of view has wiped out every other view to a point where they all seem primitive, so that if a person today talks about ghosts or spirits he is considered ignorant or maybe nutty. It's just all but completely impossible to imagine a world where ghosts can actually exist."
John nods affirmatively and I continue.
"My own opinion is that the intellect of modern man isn't that superior. IQs aren't that much different. Those Indians and medieval men were just as intelligent as we are, but the context in which they thought was completely different. Within that context of thought, ghosts and spirits are quite as real as atoms, particles, photons and quants are to a modern man. In that sense I believe in ghosts. Modern man has his ghosts and spirits too, you know."
"What?"
"Oh, the laws of physics and of logic -- the number system -- the principle of algebraic substitution. These are ghosts. We just believe in them so thoroughly they seem real.
"They seem real to me," John says.
"I don't get it," says Chris.
So I go on. "For example, it seems completely natural to presume that gravitation and the law of gravitation existed before Isaac Newton. It would sound nutty to think that until the seventeenth century there was no gravity."
"Of course."
"So when did this law start? Has it always existed?"
John is frowning, wondering what I am getting at.
"What I'm driving at," I say, "is the notion that before the beginning of the earth, before the sun and the stars were formed, before the primal generation of anything, the law of gravity existed."
"Sure."
"Sitting there, having no mass of its own, no energy of its own, not in anyone's mind because there wasn't anyone, not in space because there was no space either, not anywhere...this law of gravity still existed?"
Now John seems not so sure.
"If that law of gravity existed," I say, "I honestly don't know what a thing has to do to be nonexistent. It seems to me that law of gravity has passed every test of nonexistence there is. You cannot think of a single attribute of nonexistence that that law of gravity didn't have. Or a single scientific attribute of existence it did have. And yet it is still `common sense' to believe that it existed."
John says, "I guess I'd have to think about it."
"Well, I predict that if you think about it long enough you will find yourself going round and round and round and round until you finally reach only one possible, rational, intelligent conclusion. The law of gravity and gravity itself did not exist before Isaac Newton. No other conclusion makes sense.
"And what that means," I say before he can interrupt, "and what that means is that that law of gravity exists nowhere except in people's heads! It's a ghost! We are all of us very arrogant and conceited about running down other people's ghosts but just as ignorant and barbaric and superstitious about our own."
(Robert Pirsig - ‘Zen and The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance’ if you're interested
)Sure you can counter his words, but it still makes you think
RE: Your views: Life after death? by L. Coyote on 07-21-2006 at 06:11 AM
Well, I always try to be "correct". Thus, I think when I die, that's it. I died. And I won't come back and float around as an entity (< sorry).
But I love things that are not real, I'm a writer, anyway. I have a big imagination, naturally. If I had to answer as the fan I am, I'd say: when I die, I'll come back and post the answer.
But well, you see. I'll finish it rationally: I die, the end.
About Chrono's quote: At first, it made me think. But then again, we'd be floating (or smashed) if the gravitation was only in our heads.
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ayjay on 07-21-2006 at 06:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by segosa
For those who're interested take a look at this:
http://141592653589.org/video/TheWayOfTheMaster.avi
That's really interesting actually
Still an
And that guy they interviewed first sucked! They need someone who actually has intelligence to argue back
RE: RE: Your views: Life after death? by gif83 on 07-21-2006 at 07:59 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Leonardo
About Chrono's quote: At first, it made me think. But then again, we'd be floating (or smashed) if the gravitation was only in our heads.
in the same way that people thought that you might roll off if the world wasn't flat?
RE: Your views: Life after death? by qgroessl on 07-21-2006 at 11:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gif83
in the same way that people thought that you might roll off if the world wasn't flat?
no, because that's actually untrue... and you can see whether the world is flat or not... gravity, you can't see it.... Little does anybody know that there is indeed gravity in space... no matter where you are (to my knowledge)....
In space you float, because your in continuous freefall, not zero-gravity.... It's there, even if you don't think it is, or don't know it is... so it's actually a bit different
RE: Your views: Life after death? by CookieRevised on 07-22-2006 at 01:45 AM
The whole issue evolves around the the understanding of the brain. Although that might sound scientific, there is actually still room for religion and believes in this...
That the brain is extremely complex (actually way beyond what we could grasp... making it actually kind of a paradox ). We can understand how it works chemically and stuff, but we never can fully explain the ins and outs of it (yet). Like what is dreaming exactly (sure it are some chemicals things going on in the brain, and we can perfectly pinpoint where it occurs, but how does it work?).
If people report that they saw a tunnle of white light, are they liars because you don't believe there isn't something as a soul, life after dead, etc? No, those people really really really saw that. But it is a question of how they saw it. What were the chemical balances in their brain which produced such an image, and where does that image comes from? Culture and surroundings is only part of the explanation.
I for one, had a desease called epilepsy (the falling desease as it is sometimes unrightfully called) when I was younger (not in a severe form, so I was able to "grow out" of it). I have experienced many times very strange stuff right before I went uncounscience. And sometimes I did see myself lying on the floor and the people around me. The last time I went down I afterwads even could describe some stuff (in the room/people) which would be almost impossible to know without actually being consience and standing in the back. I even could recall some stuff people were saying which standed way back while I couldn't describe what other were saying who stood right beside me.
Does that mean there is something as a "floating soul" or whatever? I dunno. It sure means there are things going on which we still don't fully understand and the brain is way more powerfull and capable of doing things then we actually think or have prooven by now. Does it mean I believe in supernatural things like life after dead? not really. The question is also, is all this even "supernatural", it is quite possible that the brain records stuff in a very particular and maybe distored way when you are unconscience, so it could pick out sounds further away, while it couldn't 'focus' on stuff right behind it. The images could come from a very very deep memory, etc... The brain works totally different (inrational some might say) when your unconsience, and the most trouble here is, since the person is unconscience it is extremely hard to do research about this as you can't have scientific feedback.
Does that exclude religion and other stuff like that? Nope, since we don't understand the brain fully, we also still can't say something is scientific true or false or that there is something else out there.
In most cases, we say it is "supernatural" or "something out there" (or even "god" if you wish), for stuff we still connot explain fully in a scientific way or for things we don't know yet (eg: earth is flat issue). It doesn't mean it actually is "supernatural" and stuff (eg: mindreaders; are they truely "mindreaders" or are they people who can pick up and interpret body signals better than an average person.)...
RE: Your views: Life after death? by ayjay on 07-22-2006 at 04:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Time
Humans just dislike the feeling of existential anxiety. It should click in your mind that you don't have sufficient knowledge about what will happen after you die, and that, no matter what, the individuality you hold at this single moment will become a part of something you can never experience again; just a memory... or worse, just forgotten. It's negation of identity. So you invent heaven and hell so that your identity can continue after death.
Feel and believe what you want but the basic biology of it is that you cease to exist and you fade to nothing. All the electrical impulses that feed your thoughts stop. Heaven and hell are thoughts, ethereal whispers of abstract electricity passing between neurons in your brain expressed as a tailor made image of some utopia, they aren't real.
Beautiful...