Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. - Printable Version
-Shoutbox (https://shoutbox.menthix.net)
+-- Forum: MsgHelp Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=58)
+--- Forum: General (/forumdisplay.php?fid=11)
+---- Forum: General Chit Chat (/forumdisplay.php?fid=14)
+----- Thread: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. (/showthread.php?tid=65013)
Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by Ash_ on 08-16-2006 at 02:11 PM
me and a few friends been talking about the treatment of mentally ill people when being charged. like let's say murder then can pleed innocent be reason of mentally ill or something.
do you think they should be allowed speical treatment because they are mentally ill or should be treated like everyone else.
personally i believe they shouldn't be treated differently, a victim is still dead, a daughter, a possible sister or mother is gone. just because the murderer didn't think it was wrong or couldn't understand what they were doing doesent make it any less of a crime.
if you agree that they should recieve special treatment, imagine you were a parent of this victim would you agree with it then.
please no argueing or insulting keep it clean 
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by Tasha on 08-16-2006 at 02:26 PM
Same treatment as everyone else. If they plead that they had a mental illness and that's why they commited a crime, well, they knew they had the illness, and had plenty of chances to get help.
Mentally ill people should either get help, or expect to be treated exactly the same as anyone else if they commit a crime. It's simply wrong, since people can kill someone, or whatever, then ooo, suddenly they've got a mental illness. (Sarcasm my dears, that's not true in a lot of cases.)
If someone is mentally ill, and unaware of it, I think they should be treated differently. It's just that if the person is aware of it and could have got help so they wouldn't commit a crime, they should be treated the same.
Bah, I know what mentally ill people are like, and I know they have as much chance as anyone to get help.
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by Tasha on 08-16-2006 at 02:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nimicitor
but if they were getting help but it wasn't working?
That's different. I'm talking about people who have the chance to get help and don't get it.
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by vaccination on 08-16-2006 at 02:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nimicitor
if you have ever met a schizophrenic then they can convince you that they are fine and dont need help or that they are the son of god etc.
they cant be responsible for themselves or their actions
True.
I would say if they are getting help and are on record or something then maybe but if you suddenly say that you are mentally ill when trialled then
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by Tasha on 08-16-2006 at 03:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by nimicitor
sometimes you dont always take help because you dont know your ill or you dont know any different.
If you take what I've said as it is, I simply mean, someone who has a mental illness, knows they've got it (why else would they plead that they've got one?!), and has had the chance to get help when they know they've got it, and didn't, because they couldn't be bothered or were stubborn or whatever.
Oh, and:
quote:
Originally posted by nimicitor
if you have ever met a schizophrenic
I lived with one.
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by marissa on 08-16-2006 at 03:21 PM
quote:yeha, or they'e just stubborn as hell and dont think they need help.
Originally posted by nimicitor
sometimes you dont always take help because you dont know your ill or you dont know any different.
I think mentally ill people should get the same treatment as everyone else. Ash_ is right, someone still is dead and gone because of this persons actions, and if they get off free then they might even do it again, maybe it's just oen of their states of minds, and one day it all comes backto them and...then someone else dies, or something else gets stolen, or something else gets broke. People are people, and all people should be treated the same. If people that arent ill get sent to jail or some other place for wrong doings to punish/teach them that isnt right/rehibilitate them then mentally ill people should too, becuase they need to be taught it isnt right and to rehibilitate them with help, which could be meds or living in a group house or something that'll keep them from doing it again.
quote:Yeah, that's what pisses me off about them, becuase behind closed doors and stuff they could be the god damn devil himself...but no one else can see that, and when you call for help they turn on that "good" side of them.
Originally posted by nimicitor
if you have ever met a schizophrenic then they can convince you that they are fine and dont need help or that they are the son of god etc.
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by *Saint* on 08-16-2006 at 04:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tasha
Same treatment as everyone else. If they plead that they had a mental illness and that's why they commited a crime, well, they knew they had the illness, and had plenty of chances to get help.
Not all mental illnesses are curable amd even with all the help in the world it won't make them better.
Now don't forget when 3 or 4 year olds shoot someone and kill then by accident playing with their parents gun, they should be chagred and put into baby jail, doesn't matter if they didn't know it was wrong.
An adult with a mind of a 5 year old or a 5 year old with the mind of a 5 year old, they both commited a crime. The law may not waiver and there may be no expections in the eyes of the law.....
Yes I do think people who have a mental illness need to have special circumstances.
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by haydos on 08-16-2006 at 04:52 PM
I'm finding that the general assumption towards "Special treatment" leans too closely to 'letting a person off easy or scott free'.
Just because someone is getting "Special treatment" doesn't mean they have an easy road and are straight back onto the streets. I think people who are unable to think to reasonable levels of rationality/intelligence etc should not get the full punishment in most cases. Of course there will be exceptions, but I agree with a special treatment. Think of someone with an uncontrollable condition which is to blame for them committing a murder - no, I don't agree to life in prison, but life imprisonment in a special centre may be adequate... it really depends on a case a lot of the time.
quote:Very good points, I was also thinking along these sorts of lines. As above, there can still be exceptions, for example a local case here with two minors killing another girl caused outrage, and there were calls for the girls who committed the murder to be tried as adults.
Originally posted by *Saint*
Now don't forget when 3 or 4 year olds shoot someone and kill then by accident playing with their parents gun, they should be chagred and put into baby jail, doesn't matter if they didn't know it was wrong.
An adult with a mind of a 5 year old or a 5 year old with the mind of a 5 year old, they both commited a crime. They may be no expections in the eyes of the law.....
Again, it depends on the case, but in general I think yes, special circumstances are desirable.
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by Voldemort on 08-16-2006 at 11:03 PM
quote:Errr.... i dont think 3 or 4 year olds intend to kill.....
Originally posted by *Saint*
Now don't forget when 3 or 4 year olds shoot someone and kill then by accident playing with their parents gun, they should be chagred and put into baby jail, doesn't matter if they didn't know it was wrong
RE: RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by blackjack on 08-16-2006 at 11:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Voldemort
quote:Errr.... i dont think 3 or 4 year olds intend to kill.....
Originally posted by *Saint*
Now don't forget when 3 or 4 year olds shoot someone and kill then by accident playing with their parents gun, they should be chagred and put into baby jail, doesn't matter if they didn't know it was wrong
They dont intend.. as Saint said, Shoot by accident, silly
Special attention i must say
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by ~INVASION~ on 08-17-2006 at 12:49 AM
if it is a known mentally ill person, and they commit a crime like murder where the consequences are serious jail time, they should be given the help they need in a special hospital. I iwouldnt expect them to last long in a real prison anyways, it would be to overwhelming for them to take in
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by DarkMe on 08-17-2006 at 12:56 AM
Maybe a rehabilitation in jail?
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by ShawnZ on 08-17-2006 at 01:08 AM
Mentally ill people aren't treated specially for the crime, they're treated for their disability.
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by Adeptus on 08-17-2006 at 05:10 AM
The responses to this poll are going to fall right along the lines of positions the same people would take in a bigger ongoing debate -- whether the role of the criminal justice system is retaliation (making sure the perpetrator "got what he deserved") or rehabilitation (making sure it doesn't happen again).
Obviously, the supporters of the retaliation mindset are going to feel it doesn't make any difference whether somebody is insane or not. Retaliation is a response to acts and the acts have been committed.
Those in the rehabilitation camp would see a big difference. Someone suffering from a mental illness needs different treatment than someone who knowingly committed a crime.
Most criminal justice systems try to somehow balance the two, but it has been shown that systems leaning toward rehabilitation (shorter sentences, needs-based treatment, available counseling and education while serving time) produce far fewer re-offenders than the systems that focus on retaliation.
Personally, my opinion is that if anyone needs to be penalized for crimes committed by persons with previous mental illness history, it should be their family members and the mental health institutions responsible for them. They are the ones fully competent, who have been negligent in their responsibility to supervise a patient.
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by CookieRevised on 08-17-2006 at 08:11 AM
quote:It doesn't make it less of a crime but that is not the issue. You're talking about the punishment, not about the crime. A punishment should be suited to the crime, but also to the person.
Originally posted by Ash_
personally i believe they shouldn't be treated differently, a victim is still dead, a daughter, a possible sister or mother is gone. just because the murderer didn't think it was wrong or couldn't understand what they were doing doesent make it any less of a crime.
If a 13yr old minor commits a murder, does that make it differently than when a grown-up do it? No.... But you do treat him differently because it is a minor (there are as always exceptions of course; but again, exceptions are a indication of not treating everybody the same)....
Same with (true) mental ill people, if you would punish them the same as everybody else it will not be a good punishment for them, or on the other hand it will be a way to severe punishment for them.
Do you punish all children the same way whenever they do something wrong (steal a cookie)? No. One punishment is not the other punishment to an individual child. eg: one can suffer great from not watching TV, the other may even not care... How stupid this comparisson might seem, it is actually exactly the same thing: you punish people on an individual basis given a set of global rules (but it still is individual punishment).
quote:If a mental ill person would kill one of my family I certainly would not want them to recieve the same punishment as non-mental ill people. What good will that do? They even may not realize they are been punished or whatever. If they don't realize they did something wrong by killing someone, how are they going to realize they've been punished? And what is the meaning of a punishment? To let the person he/she did something wrong. Not to easy your own mind and to take revenge (like in the middle ages).
Originally posted by Ash_
if you agree that they should recieve special treatment, imagine you were a parent of this victim would you agree with it then.
If you treat people all in the exact same way, you actually don't punish people for justice, but you punish people to ease your own mind: an eye for an eye (aka being selfish)...
crime isn't black and white, neither is justice.
----------
quote:which is not done by punishing them same way.
Originally posted by pirateok
becuase they need to be taught it isnt right and to rehibilitate them with help
quote:that's seriously stereotyping (just as a lot of other stuff in this thread)
Originally posted by pirateok
quote:Yeah, that's what pisses me off about them, becuase behind closed doors and stuff they could be the god damn devil himself...but no one else can see that, and when you call for help they turn on that "good" side of them.
Originally posted by nimicitor
if you have ever met a schizophrenic then they can convince you that they are fine and dont need help or that they are the son of god etc.
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by azn angel on 08-18-2006 at 09:12 AM
ok well i havent read all of the above posts but this is what i have to say
quote:BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA j00 make me lawf - kudos to you.
Originally posted by darkme
Maybe a rehabilitation in jail?
currently studying legal, we discussed options for paedophiles, talked to a prison psychiatrist rehab does not work at all.
you cant ask if mentally unstable people deserve 'special treatment' because really, you must look at cases individually. every motivation for committing a crime is individual, there is no.. standard reason.
the real problem is that you can not get adequate help if you are mentally unstable. there was an mp3 file which i listened to about this but its no longer being uploaded. one guy was actually killed because he went crazy and no one could stop him except the police. there should be emergency people out there who can come in and calm or sedate the person
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by haydos on 08-18-2006 at 12:29 PM
quote:That leaves the question, do all mentally ill murderers intend to kill?
Originally posted by Voldemort
quote:Errr.... i dont think 3 or 4 year olds intend to kill.....
Originally posted by *Saint*
Now don't forget when 3 or 4 year olds shoot someone and kill then by accident playing with their parents gun, they should be chagred and put into baby jail, doesn't matter if they didn't know it was wrong
quote:That's a matter of opinion.
Originally posted by nimicitor
paedophiles arnt mentally ill
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by absorbation on 08-18-2006 at 12:40 PM
A perfect case is Derek Bentley, who was a 19 year old with the mental age of an 11 year old. He was one of the last people put under the death penility here in England despite he was innocent. The crime was shooting a police officer, which his friend Christoper Craig commited. However, he got away with it and is still living today because he was too young to got to prison, but because Derek was 19 he was blamed and hanged.
Only recently his name was cleared by his sister 40 years after he died.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Bentley
RE: Mentally ill people commiting crimes: opinions. by saralk on 08-18-2006 at 01:05 PM
I work in a GP sorting through patients' files. While I am not allowed to mention any names, I can talk about the cases themselves.
A man was at a train station, and got into a random car, killed the driver and attacked the two passengers.
In the psychologist's report, the psycologist said that the man couldn't give a reason as to why he killed the driver, he just felt a compelling urge to do so.
It was confirmed later, that he was a paranoid schizophrenic.
If that guy was treated in the exact same way as a mentally stable person would have been treated, when he got out of jail, he may have killed more people, because he didn't receive any treatment, instead he stayed in a psychiatric hospital for a bit, got treatment, and now has been alright for a few years, he has got a job, and is a functioning member of society.
On another note, I know that the NHS gets a lot of stick, however, looking through these guys notes, I can see that the NHS does a lot to help patients with the resources it has, for example this guys file was huge, he had loads of psycologists reports, and there were 8 meetings where everyone who had ever treated him met up to specifically discuss this one patient