Personally i agree with Jack Straw, i would find it rude if someone was wearing one of these veils whilst in a meeting/conference....

i also agree on the comment that 'wearing the veils seperates muslims from everyone else' (or something along those lines). The veils do not help a multicultural comunity blend and get along.

im not being racist. some people are going to say if they want to wear a veil then they can, its their right to.... but what about all the stuff like, if i want to wave a st georges flag i can, its my right or whatever... but apparently certain flags are offensive.

yea. jack straw...

agree? disagree?

Got a link as to who slash what Jack Straw actually is slash does?

Depends on how extreme they are, as long as I can clearly see someone’s face and it’s just used to basically cover the hair I don't have a problem with it.

But when they cover the mouth or other parts of the face it’s different, since you can't see facial expressions which make things like a meeting very hard.

i agree with menthix, and i'll also add that.. u can't even be sure that the person present (behind the veil) is the actual person you think it is.
also.. security issues, i mean it could be anybody

I agree with him too, it's all down to how we're becoming so politically correct.

If I wore a balaclava in to a meeting people would think... well, they'd think all sorts of stuff. If I even wear a cap in to school I get told to take it off.

Allowing exceptions to be made for certain religions does cause rifts, and it also - although of course this does not happen in our politically correct society - allows groups of people to be more easily discriminated against.

Why is it only women that wear veils anyway? I mean it's not like certain other clothes that only women wear for good reason...

Agreeing wih menthix, i think the argument is a bit.. hmmm...i dont know the word.
but if you were muslim would you stop following your beliefs for a few random people that have a problem with it?
i wouldnt.

Yer but you could take off the veil just for the meeting but then gain I'm not a muslim so I wouldn't know.

Where is the "Who the hell is Jack Straw"-option?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Straw_(politician)

Everyone has a right to wear what the hell you want. At the end of the day it's part of a religion. Wearing a Christian cross isn't banned, that's showing the religion. Wearing a veil is just a Muslim way of showing their religion.


This annoys me. *flies away*

Im Turkish,so we are muslim.Also my mom or any women in my family not wearing a veil or anything like that.

Its just religion,everyone liberty about it[in Turkey].

P.S. =M.K. Ataturk forbad the wear a veils on 25 November 1925.

quote:

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Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
Everyone has a right to wear what the hell you want. At the end of the day it's part of a religion. Wearing a Christian cross isn't banned, that's showing the religion. Wearing a veil is just a Muslim way of showing their religion.


This annoys me. *flies away*

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quote:

---

Originally posted by M73A

quote:

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Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
Everyone has a right to wear what the hell you want. At the end of the day it's part of a religion. Wearing a Christian cross isn't banned, that's showing the religion. Wearing a veil is just a Muslim way of showing their religion.


This annoys me. *flies away*

---

a cross is not blocking/hiding the whole face, also... liek bluewater, you cant wear a hood... bt you can wear a full on face mask basically.

why does showing their religion have to be in the form of hiding their identity. you said a christian wears a cross... (im not pro that either...) but it doesn't hide their face, or make things awkward

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quote:

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Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
It's not to hide their identity, although it might seem that way to you. They feel 'protected' from the eyes of men. It makes them feel safer. And it's their religion. What harm does it cause anyway? Policemen where police hats so you can't see the expression of their eyes/eyebrows... it comes under the same thing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by bbc news
full-face veil is a "visible statement of separation".

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quote:

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Originally posted by M73A

quote:

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Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
It's not to hide their identity, although it might seem that way to you. They feel 'protected' from the eyes of men. It makes them feel safer. And it's their religion. What harm does it cause anyway? Policemen where police hats so you can't see the expression of their eyes/eyebrows... it comes under the same thing.

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i beg to differ, the policemen and women around here i can recognise... if they all wore hijabs im pretty sure i wouldn't be able to tell who is who.

im not sayign they should give up their religion or anything, i just feel its a that this is true:

quote:

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full-face veil is a "visible statement of separation".

---

---

im not tryna cause any kind of argument btw. just trying to debate how i see things. this is interesting. i've been reading the comment on bbc news aswell....

ok its not hruting anyone but what about all the things like your not allowed to have a st georges flag unless it is on a verticle flag pole because it is offensive.... thats rubbish thats not hurting anyone.

people will take a scarf off when they are not plodding around outside.... or if they dont have heating. they are not going to sit in a conference with it on.

i just don't see the point of them, they're not exactly fashionable or anything, and don't serve much purpose...

quote:

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Originally posted by ShawnZ
i just don't see the point of them, they're not exactly fashionable or anything, and don't serve much purpose...

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quote:

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Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
Yeah, it's religious and started in Iran and such, they're good for the weather they have. They're breezy, light and protect you from the sun.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by M73A

quote:

---

Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
Yeah, it's religious and started in Iran and such, they're good for the weather they have. They're breezy, light and protect you from the sun.

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not sandy in england, and not sunny either lol ^_^

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its not just the veil though, its that multiculturalism is becoming harder, and the veil isnt helping muslims blend in.

im just watching an interview with veiled women on bbc1 atm... ill add my comments after hearing the other side.

edit: this isnt to be taken the wrong way, but just watching the interview is weird for me, it like a dubbed film because you cant see anything other than their eyes.

EDIT: i have been taking media studies, and it is a lot analysing news papers and the effects of media.... muslims get slated regularly in the media. for example there was an article about a possibility of a mosque being built in a prison costing a few million.... the headline wasnt mosque finally built for muslim inmates, it was hooked muslims gets his own way... or something like that. the whole thing is  giant mind fuck that is being blown up by the media.

I think he's right. I also think he shouldn't have had to apologise. But I also think that in the grand scheme of things, if they (muslim women) want to wear one, then we (the non muslim women) should be allowed to pass comment on it without fear of being branded a "racist" or general "enemy of Islam" or whatever. I think that they shouldn't have to remove, but the community as a whole needs to be more relaxed about different things in this country, after all, Islam isn't the official religion.

But you don't go into a business meeting a wearing a hat, do you?

Don't mind them wearing it whilst there 'out 'n' about' but they could be more *polite* about it in other places.

quote:

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Originally posted by Time
Jack Straw is right. For those who don't know who he is don't be so retarded and GOOGLE HIM. Simple.

I can understand why he would like them not to wear veils in meetings, it is very disconcerting to see an inch wide slit of someone's face when discussing something with them. That's just a practicality. Also, in some Arabic countries they are rarely worn so implying it is a custom they brought with them is pretty stupid. Next, recently a BBC newsreader was disciplined for wearing a crucifix whilst presenting the news because it might offend Muslims etc. - tell me how that is fair. The issue of it being for weather purposes (breezy, sandy) is moot since it is neither of those when INSIDE during a meeting. Finally, when someone western visits an Arabic country drinking alcohol is forbidden, wearing a bikini in public is forbidden, basically we are forced to obey their codes of conduct. Well, hey, this is England not Arabia - so obey OUR codes of conduct.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Time
Jack Straw is right. For those who don't know who he is don't be so retarded and GOOGLE HIM. Simple.

I can understand why he would like them not to wear veils in meetings, it is very disconcerting to see an inch wide slit of someone's face when discussing something with them. That's just a practicality. Also, in some Arabic countries they are rarely worn so implying it is a custom they brought with them is pretty stupid. Next, recently a BBC newsreader was disciplined for wearing a crucifix whilst presenting the news because it might offend Muslims etc. - tell me how that is fair. The issue of it being for weather purposes (breezy, sandy) is moot since it is neither of those when INSIDE during a meeting. Finally, when someone western visits an Arabic country drinking alcohol is forbidden, wearing a bikini in public is forbidden, basically we are forced to obey their codes of conduct. Well, hey, this is England not Arabia - so obey OUR codes of conduct.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by andrewdodd13
Besides this *is* a mainly Christian-based country

---

I agree that muslim women should have to take off their head vails while we talk to them etc. because it's just rude if they don't. They way you acknowledge people is by their facial expressions etc.

The whole "crucifix" and the jewish cap arguments are stupid, you do not need to remove those as they do not block anything which prevents you from seeing if somebody is telling the truth or speaking positively etc.

My mum, dad and brother got in a huge argument over this with my sister-in-law and she just wouldn't listen to anybody.

A policeman should have the right to say, "remove your headscarf now." it's not racist, it's just common sense.

Time makes a good point and I personally think that Jack straw was right in saying what he did.

So frozendaggers, just read all of your posts, you seem pretty knowledgable about the whole situation.

Situation:
Mans walks into a bank wearing a bicycle helmet which covers his face but not his eyes, he's potentially dangerous and could be using it to cover his face so that he will not be seen by cameras. Yet if a muslim woman walks in with her face covered, it's not dangerous, it's just their religion.

People are thinking about safety etc.

The ministry of defence even had an advert once about how we should be able to see peoples faces, they walked up to some taliban people, and they were ready to attack, but as soon as the man took off his sunglasses, they backed down and acknowledged him. People acknowledge with their eyes and the rest of their faces, if we can't see this then it's just wrong.

The way you're saying "we get to wear a crucifix" is idiotic, we can hide the crucifix by putting it under our top, we don't usually walk around with it showing to everyone (not that this matters, as this is about communication), whereas if there are people wearing garments that purpously cover the face, it's intimidating and should be banned.

quote:

---

Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
It's not to hide their identity, although it might seem that way to you. They feel 'protected' from the eyes of men. It makes them feel safer. And it's their religion. What harm does it cause anyway? Policemen where police hats so you can't see the expression of their eyes/eyebrows... it comes under the same thing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor

quote:

---

Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
It's not to hide their identity, although it might seem that way to you. They feel 'protected' from the eyes of men. It makes them feel safer. And it's their religion. What harm does it cause anyway? Policemen where police hats so you can't see the expression of their eyes/eyebrows... it comes under the same thing.

---

The policeman statement is utter rubbish, the reason policeman wear their uniform is so that they're easily recognisable and for protection. Never once have I spoken to a policeman with his hat one, whenever they speak to me they always politely take off their hats/helmets and then speak to me.

---

Yeah, I have no issues with them only covering their hair, but if it covers their eyes, nose and mouth, then it's inappropriate.

quote:

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Originally posted by traxor
Yeah, I have no issues with them only covering their hair, but if it covers their eyes, nose and mouth, then it's inappropriate.

---

It's a part of their culture/religion/whatever. You just cant go against them, it's stupid. They can wear whatever they want.. i agree that for must of us it's weird, but it's the way they see the world. you cant expect them to stop doing it cause we dont like it. It's as if at some point they decided that underwear is bad and expected us to stop wearing them too (it's a silly example but you get the idea).

quote:

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Originally posted by FrozenDaggers

It's not to hide their identity, although it might seem that way to you. They feel 'protected' from the eyes of men. It makes them feel safer. And it's their religion. What harm does it cause anyway?

---

quote:

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Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
IMO I think it's ridiculous and plain ignorance.

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quote:

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Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
As I said... it's extremly rare.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chrono
It's a part of their culture/religion/whatever. You just cant go against them, it's stupid. They can wear whatever they want.. i agree that for must of us it's weird, but it's the way they see the world. you cant expect them to stop doing it cause we dont like it. It's as if at some point they decided that underwear is bad and expected us to stop wearing them too (it's a silly example but you get the idea).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor

quote:

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Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
As I said... it's extremly rare.

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What is extremtly rare?

quote:

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Originally posted by Chrono
It's a part of their culture/religion/whatever. You just cant go against them, it's stupid. They can wear whatever they want.. i agree that for must of us it's weird, but it's the way they see the world. you cant expect them to stop doing it cause we dont like it. It's as if at some point they decided that underwear is bad and expected us to stop wearing them too (it's a silly example but you get the idea).

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Well in a time like this, they should see the world as it is now, not what it was hundreds of years ago, they need to adapt.

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What I'm saying is, why should we have to adapt when THEY chose to come HERE?!

quote:

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Originally posted by traxor
What I'm saying is, why should we have to adapt when THEY chose to come HERE?!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Time
Jack Straw is right. For those who don't know who he is don't be so retarded and GOOGLE HIM. Simple.

I can understand why he would like them not to wear veils in meetings, it is very disconcerting to see an inch wide slit of someone's face when discussing something with them. That's just a practicality. Also, in some Arabic countries they are rarely worn so implying it is a custom they brought with them is pretty stupid. Next, recently a BBC newsreader was disciplined for wearing a crucifix whilst presenting the news because it might offend Muslims etc. - tell me how that is fair. The issue of it being for weather purposes (breezy, sandy) is moot since it is neither of those when INSIDE during a meeting. Finally, when someone western visits an Arabic country drinking alcohol is forbidden, wearing a bikini in public is forbidden, basically we are forced to obey their codes of conduct. Well, hey, this is England not Arabia - so obey OUR codes of conduct.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chrono

quote:

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Originally posted by traxor
What I'm saying is, why should we have to adapt when THEY chose to come HERE?!

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cause they have no choise basically (i mean, i bet there are way more oportunities in england than in arabai, and that mightent be necesarily their own fault )

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quote:

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Originally posted by MC Inferno

quote:

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Originally posted by Time
Jack Straw is right. For those who don't know who he is don't be so retarded and GOOGLE HIM. Simple.

I can understand why he would like them not to wear veils in meetings, it is very disconcerting to see an inch wide slit of someone's face when discussing something with them. That's just a practicality. Also, in some Arabic countries they are rarely worn so implying it is a custom they brought with them is pretty stupid. Next, recently a BBC newsreader was disciplined for wearing a crucifix whilst presenting the news because it might offend Muslims etc. - tell me how that is fair. The issue of it being for weather purposes (breezy, sandy) is moot since it is neither of those when INSIDE during a meeting. Finally, when someone western visits an Arabic country drinking alcohol is forbidden, wearing a bikini in public is forbidden, basically we are forced to obey their codes of conduct. Well, hey, this is England not Arabia - so obey OUR codes of conduct.

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jus out of intrest... who do you vote for?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Time

quote:

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Originally posted by MC Inferno

jus out of intrest... who do you vote for?

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It's a secret ballot for a reason. Heh.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chrono
It's a part of their culture/religion/whatever. You just cant go against them, it's stupid. They can wear whatever they want.. i agree that for must of us it's weird, but it's the way they see the world. you cant expect them to stop doing it cause we dont like it. It's as if at some point they decided that underwear is bad and expected us to stop wearing them too (it's a silly example but you get the idea).

---

This just underlines my point about how they enforce their ideals on us with a totalitarian brutality when we visit Arabic countries. Wear a bikini in Dubai? End up in prison! Drink alcohol in public in Iran? Lose your hands! Oh, sure, embrace a multicultural stance on the world but double standards are just plain ignorant. So, yes, they expect us to stop eating bacon because they don't like it. But, Jack Straw wants to be able to see the people he is discussing issues with in meetings and they hold protests and cry that their way of life is being attacked and denigrated.

I love all the hypocrisy that a lot of Muslims exude. Take the tiny faux pas the Pope made the other week: basically a sly jab about how Islam is a violent religion... so what do they do? Attack embassies and lynch Christians in an outburst saying "we're not violent" - irony much? The problem I have with it is that they travel all this way to live in this country, specifically THIS country, because we offer welfare, a stable state and we're tolerant of other cultures; yet once they get here they do not offer any sacrifice to conform to our way of life screaming that their culture is superior and they insist upon thinking of themselves as Muslims and not British citizens. Well, sorry, but that is an abhorrent logic.

It is a simple courtesy to remove a veil for important meetings; as simple a courtesy as not eating bacon whilst on holiday in an Arabic country. But, hey, if they want to blow themselves up over being asked to not wear a piece of cloth for an hour a day in a meeting then they deserve all the prejudice and discrimination they have engendered towards themselves over the years. Props to a society that encourages teenagers to become sick 'martyrs' in some cause that is so buried in tradition, superstition and false religion that they cannot see beyond the mirage in the sand.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Time
Edit: Banksy is a moron. His 'artwork' is just vandalism and his political stunts are beyond stupid. I wouldn't trust his views on anything.

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On top of Time's very good argument I should point out that Jack Straw didn't even suggest women be forced to remove their veils, only suggested to. If it really means that much to them then fine. Human beings can use their own judgement as to whether a particular practice is inappropriate for the situation.

And traxor, disliking foreigners being anti-social doesn't mean you have to be a nazi.

quote:

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster
And traxor, disliking foreigners being anti-social doesn't mean you have to be a nazi.

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I agree with everything Time said.

except i have no idea who Banksy is.

quote:

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Originally posted by Time

quote:

---

Originally posted by MC Inferno

jus out of intrest... who do you vote for?

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It's a secret ballot for a reason. Heh.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by MC Inferno

quote:

---

Originally posted by Time

quote:

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Originally posted by MC Inferno

jus out of intrest... who do you vote for?

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It's a secret ballot for a reason. Heh.

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BNP / UK Independence then?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Joa
I agree with everything Time said.

except i have no idea who Banksy is.

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time, i love you! you manage to put across what i try to say without coming across as if what you mean is 'death to all muslims' or something like that. i see it as every other culture tries to fit in, whereas muslims refuse to give... they just take.

quote:

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Originally posted by M73A
time, i love you! you manage to put across what i try to say without coming across as if what you mean is 'death to all muslims' or something like that. i see it as every other culture tries to fit in, whereas muslims refuse to give... they just take.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor

quote:

---

Originally posted by MC Inferno

quote:

---

Originally posted by Time

quote:

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Originally posted by MC Inferno

jus out of intrest... who do you vote for?

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It's a secret ballot for a reason. Heh.

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BNP / UK Independence then?

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Refer to what he said in your quote.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Time
MC Inferno: No, I do not vote BNP/UKIP/any other half-witted extremist far right group.

quote:

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Good

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---

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor

quote:

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster
And traxor, disliking foreigners being anti-social doesn't mean you have to be a nazi.

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I'm not being a nazi .

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quote:

---

Originally posted by fluffy_lobster

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor

quote:

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster
And traxor, disliking foreigners being anti-social doesn't mean you have to be a nazi.

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I'm not being a nazi .

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I know, you haven't voted for BNP yet

Just a forewarning

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quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor

quote:

---

Originally posted by fluffy_lobster

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor

quote:

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster
And traxor, disliking foreigners being anti-social doesn't mean you have to be a nazi.

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I'm not being a nazi .

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I know, you haven't voted for BNP yet

Just a forewarning

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To be fair, it's going to start happening sooner or later anyway, it's innevitable.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fluffy_lobster
Not if Kim Jong-li doesn't nuke us all first. I guess the end of civilised British life has to come about one way or another.

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quote:

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Originally posted by andrewdodd13
I've already started digging a basement out back. I don't think I'll get planning permission.. mind if it really comes to that, building warrant officers will be one thing that I won't miss.

PS. Only reason Trax hasn't voted BNP is because he's not old enough.

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quote:

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Originally posted by traxor

quote:

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Originally posted by andrewdodd13
I've already started digging a basement out back. I don't think I'll get planning permission.. mind if it really comes to that, building warrant officers will be one thing that I won't miss.

PS. Only reason Trax hasn't voted BNP is because he's not old enough.

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Would you mind not coming to assumptions please?

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quote:

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Originally posted by traxor

Probably BNP, just like I will when I'm old enough to vote.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by fluffy_lobster

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor

quote:

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Originally posted by andrewdodd13
I've already started digging a basement out back. I don't think I'll get planning permission.. mind if it really comes to that, building warrant officers will be one thing that I won't miss.

PS. Only reason Trax hasn't voted BNP is because he's not old enough.

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Would you mind not coming to assumptions please?

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quote:

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Originally posted by traxor

Probably BNP, just like I will when I'm old enough to vote.

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Sounds cruel, but "Our Country, Our Rules"... Like people have said, we have to follow their rules and "traditions" they should have to follow ours. Multiculturism works in more than one direction

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor

quote:

---

Originally posted by fluffy_lobster

quote:

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Originally posted by traxor

quote:

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Originally posted by andrewdodd13
I've already started digging a basement out back. I don't think I'll get planning permission.. mind if it really comes to that, building warrant officers will be one thing that I won't miss.

PS. Only reason Trax hasn't voted BNP is because he's not old enough.

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Would you mind not coming to assumptions please?

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quote:

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Originally posted by traxor

Probably BNP, just like I will when I'm old enough to vote.

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Oh damn, that was just me being rash though.

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quote:

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Originally posted by MC Inferno
So you wont vote BNP then?

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Labour ftw! Their is nobody else I'd want running the country! better the devil you know, than the devil you don't

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor

quote:

---

Originally posted by MC Inferno
So you wont vote BNP then?

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That has nothing to do with anybody here, but if you must know, I'm Labour.

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I don't agree that Muslim women should even be asked if they take off their veil, its part of their religion, its not like somebody wearing a motorcylce helmet like people keep comparing it to, because its part of what they believe in and part of their lifestyle. And so what if its a tradition that has come from however many hundred years ago from another country, they should take pride that they've held onto part of their culture and religion.. not like Christians who changed the Old Testiment so they could drink alcohol, because it did state that alcohol was prohibited.
What people don't come to realise is that their are some similarities between Islam and Christianity.. for example in Islam its prohibited to eat any meat from a pig, it also states that in the Bible! Leviticus chapter 11, verse 8, .....regarding swine it says, "of their flesh (of the swine) shall you not eat, and of their carcass you shall not touch; they are unclean to you." What I'm getting at is that Islam always gets heightened to be 'extreme' and what not by how they dress, what they don't eat etc.. but they're only following what their religion teaches and how it guides them. Maybe it would also say in the Bible to dress modestly I'm not sure I havn't researched into it but that's all they're doing, they're protecting themselves and having respect for themselves by choosing not to flaunt their bods off. It's become such a big issue when in reality it really is causing no-one any harm, but Jack Straw should respect people's beliefs and choices instead of suggesting they change their values for his happiness and comfort. It's stupid to say Britain accepts cultures and we're multicultural and what not when the majority of society feel so strongly against something so trivial as the veil. People keep saying 'they've come to OUR country, THEY should adapt to US' but then that's just going against any form of multiculturalism altogether. And have you ever thought that maybe these women feel uncomfortable and insecure when having to speak to women who reveal their bodies as in show their cleavage and legs? As someone said before its a minority of Muslim women who choose to wear the veil, the majority wear hijab which is the head scarf which covers the hair and shoulder region. So I don't think it should have been dramatised as much as it has.

quote:

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Originally posted by elzz
I don't agree that Muslim women should even be asked if they take off their veil, its part of their religion, its not like somebody wearing a motorcylce helmet like people keep comparing it to, because its part of what they believe in and part of their lifestyle.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by elzz
It's become such a big issue when in reality it really is causing no-one any harm, but Jack Straw should respect people's beliefs and choices instead of suggesting they change their values for his happiness and comfort. It's stupid to say Britain accepts cultures and we're multicultural and what not when the majority of society feel so strongly against something so trivial as the veil.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by elzz
People keep saying 'they've come to OUR country, THEY should adapt to US' but then that's just going against any form of multiculturalism altogether.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by elzz
As someone said before its a minority of Muslim women who choose to wear the veil, the majority wear hijab which is the head scarf which covers the hair and shoulder region. So I don't think it should have been dramatised as much as it has.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by M73A
Personally i agree with Jack Straw, i would find it rude if someone was wearing one of these veils whilst in a meeting/conference....

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quote:

---

Originally posted by M73A
i also agree on the comment that 'wearing the veils seperates muslims from everyone else' (or something along those lines). The veils do not help a multicultural comunity blend and get along.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by M73A
a cross is not blocking/hiding the whole face, also... liek bluewater, you cant wear a hood... bt you can wear a full on face mask basically.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by M73A
why does showing their religion have to be in the form of hiding their identity.

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quote:

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Originally posted by M73A
you said a christian wears a cross... (im not pro that either...) but it doesn't hide their face, or make things awkward

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quote:

---

Originally posted by M73A
im not sayign they should give up their religion or anythin

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quote:

---

Originally posted by M73A
its not just the veil though, its that multiculturalism is becoming harder, and the veil isnt helping muslims blend in.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Time
Also, in some Arabic countries they are rarely worn so implying it is a custom they brought with them is pretty stupid.

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Originally posted by Time
Next, recently a BBC newsreader was disciplined for wearing a crucifix whilst presenting the news because it might offend Muslims etc. - tell me how that is fair.

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Originally posted by traxor
What I'm saying is, why should we have to adapt when THEY chose to come HERE?!

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Originally posted by traxor
Well they should see England for what it is now rather than what it used to be, in the few years their opportunities will decrease and they'll be forced to do stuff against their religion, it's what will happen, they have to obide by our laws if they're in our country. They can't come to our country expecting to bring their laws over here and say "this is a muslim area, stay out" (which is exactly what a heckler said at one of Jack Straw's speeches. How does that heckler have the right to say that, it's not their area, it's the governments area?!

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Originally posted by FrozenDaggers
Everyone has a right to wear what the hell you want. At the end of the day it's part of a religion. Wearing a Christian cross isn't banned, that's showing the religion. Wearing a veil is just a Muslim way of showing their religion.


This annoys me. *flies away*

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Originally posted by Chrono
It's a part of their culture/religion/whatever. You just cant go against them, it's stupid. They can wear whatever they want.. i agree that for must of us it's weird, but it's the way they see the world. you cant expect them to stop doing it cause we dont like it. It's as if at some point they decided that underwear is bad and expected us to stop wearing them too (it's a silly example but you get the idea).

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
    quoteriginally posted by M73A
    Personally i agree with Jack Straw, i would find it rude if someone was wearing one of these veils whilst in a meeting/conference....

what on earth is rude about wearing them???? o.O

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
    quoteriginally posted by M73A
    i also agree on the comment that 'wearing the veils seperates muslims from everyone else' (or something along those lines). The veils do not help a multicultural comunity blend and get along.

How do they not help?

If you speak of a 'multicultural community' it means that in this community people are from multiple cultures. If eveybody wears the exact same thing, behaves the same way, say the same thing, etc you don't have a multicultural community at all.

Also, why is it that everybody always talks about veils as if those people are the only people with the only religion which has some visible elements.

If veils are not allowed, so must be crosses, white border from the priest, etc... Heck, ANY other clothing or ornament which has even the slightest reference to some religion or culture (eg: piercing, tattoos, etc...).

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
    quoteriginally posted by M73A
    you said a christian wears a cross... (im not pro that either...) but it doesn't hide their face, or make things awkward

They might find christian practices ackward too. If you find something ackward that's your problem, not theirs.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
    quoteriginally posted by M73A
    im not sayign they should give up their religion or anythin

Actually you do say they should give up their religion if you wanna forbid it!

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
    quoteriginally posted by M73A
    its not just the veil though, its that multiculturalism is becoming harder, and the veil isnt helping muslims blend in.

so you want a multicultural society where everybody wears and does the same? Sorry, but that is not multicultural at all, that's saying "adapt or get away", aka serious discriminating.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
I'm very shocked reading certain comments in this thread

Personally I find it very offensive that people even consider forbidding veils or would even questionning wearing them; it is their believe and they have the right to practice their believe.

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If its a meeting, id atleast want to see the persons eyes if not the entire face (for facial expressions). At other times, i dont mind anyone wearing veils (unless it is a situation where i need to know where they are looking/their expressions)

Who ever wears clothes like that here atleast keeps their eyes open. Other than that the entire body is covered. Or mabbe thats just because they are walking on the road?