Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion?

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Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by LoochTheMan on 02-13-2007 at 09:13 PM

There is a local High School near me in Toronto where 11-19 (not sure) students were suspended for commenting on a group created at Facebook.com about their principal. As a result, the police were contacted and the students were suspended for internet bullying. Do you think schools have the right to suspend kids due to comments or posts made on the internet. The comments were not made on school computers and had no affiliation to the school (other than the principal being commented on). An article can be found here, with the official reported story.

What do you think?

Edit: Changed group to newspaper article.

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Nathan on 02-13-2007 at 09:15 PM

Copy the page and post it on here cos i aint signing up

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Thor on 02-13-2007 at 09:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by LoochTheMan
There is a local High School near me in Toronto where 11-19 (not sure) students were suspended for commenting on a group created at Facebook.com about their principal. As a result, the police were contacted and the students were suspended for internet bullying. Do you think schools have the right to suspend kids due to comments or posts made on the internet. The comments were not made on school computers and had no affiliation to the school (other than the principal being commented on). The group can be found here, with posted content from local newspapers.

What do you think?

Definetly not, what you do as a student outside school, isn't in general the school's business.

Of course, they can charge them for being mean (even i could that but), it isn't really a need to do so.

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by MeEtc on 02-13-2007 at 09:34 PM

No, this has nothing to do with school. I can see that maybe they'd make the kids take some mandatory counseling at the school, but a suspension is whacked.

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by prashker on 02-13-2007 at 09:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Nitro
Definetly not, what you do as a student outside school, isn't in general the school's business.

Exactly

.

I'd say they would get in trouble, maybe stay after class for like 5minutes, but not a suspension

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by saralk on 02-13-2007 at 09:49 PM

well Internet Bullying is a crime, and what they were doing was internet bullying. The headmaster could potentially have filed a proper complaint and maybe have them charged, but they decided to suspend them instead.

So I say, justified.

NEXT CASE!

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Voldemort on 02-13-2007 at 10:07 PM

NOT unless that they actually did something against them..
I once created an email with a teachers name, fooled around with some people... no insults, no nothing... just chatting.... and someone told the supervisor... they went to talk to me... and they FORCED me to log on to my messenger account, threatening on suspension...so did i, i had not logged in to my account after i added myself on my teachers account so the window popped out, supervisor BROWSED MY LIST, couldn't find a thing... she assured me that there was a way to see who you have talked to and the chat logs (i was thinking YEAH RIGHT) to try and scare me so i would confess... i denied it all... she said she knew it was me but she couldn't prove it... and I got off... i don't they can punish you IN SCHOOL for something you did outside of it... for example as if i egged a house and instead of the police taking me over my school expelled me automatically... unfair...

edit: i was 11 when i did that

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Vilkku on 02-13-2007 at 10:24 PM

Yes, everyone should have the right to defend himself. This is not just a question about students bullying principals - work colleagues or just random persons all have more or less the same rights. It just happened to be about school this time, and that's also a likely reason why it got reported.

RE: RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Vimto on 02-13-2007 at 10:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SonicSam

quote:
Originally posted by Nitro
Definetly not, what you do as a student outside school, isn't in general the school's business.

Exactly .

I'd say they would get in trouble, maybe stay after class for like 5minutes, but not a suspension .

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Lou on 02-13-2007 at 10:40 PM

Well, having been part of a previous issue regarding the internet, and off school property stuff happening, I personally believe this to be unjustified. The principal had all the rights to sue the students, and etc. However, they did nothing wrong at school, and thus definitely should not be denied schooling for what happens outside school. If the comments had been posted while the students were inside the school, or using school computers, then the suspension would have been justified. I'm quite sure that the school principal (the story having made it on the news) is going to regret the decision because parents are going to get angry most likely.

I'm not saying the students shouldn't be punished, but they should be punished as normal people, and not as students, as it has nothing to do with their studies.

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Nagamasa on 02-13-2007 at 10:46 PM

I just think its not right to be suspended. We have the right of speech don't we? As I havent read the facebook in detail, it should be legal...its just like ratemyteacher.com

quote:
Originally posted by LoochTheMan
The comments were not made on school computers and had no affiliation to the school (other than the principal being commented on).

Its almost like as if a Microsoft retailer talks bad about Bill Gates...

quote:
Originally posted by LoochTheMan
Do you think schools have the right to suspend kids due to comments or posts made on the internet.

quote:
Originally posted by the link
I have a few words for the big man: get on your knees, open your mouth and suck it.

He's just offering something to suck on. Perhaps he was thinking about a lollipop?

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by foaly on 02-13-2007 at 11:22 PM

yes they should be suspended, purely for being so stupid to admit that
they did it... If they just denied it the school couldn't have proofed it...

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Menthix on 02-14-2007 at 12:23 AM

quote:
Originally posted by foaly
they should be suspended, purely for being so stupid to admit that they did it

So the should be suspended from their education because they're honest?

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by foaly on 02-14-2007 at 12:29 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MenthiX

quote:
Originally posted by foaly
they should be suspended, purely for being so stupid to admit that they did it
So the should be suspended from their education because they're honest?

if honesty gets you in trouble you don't deserve, you shouldn't be honest...

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Nagamasa on 02-14-2007 at 12:45 AM

I just saw this one the (Chinese) news (but with Global's vids):

quote:
Originally posted by LoochTheMan
11-19 (not sure)

quote:
Originally posted by LoochTheMan
were suspended

for 5-8 days

quote:
Originally posted by Nathan
Copy the page and post it on here cos i aint signing up

I saw a few peeks of the site when watching TV, and I think I might want to change my mind about it being right as those things were REALLY racist, to the point where the writer could be easily sued.

quote:
Originally posted by foaly
If they just denied it the school couldn't have proofed it...

My music teacher was talking about students abusing his email account for projects and how he was two phone calls away from getting the Hacker Squad.

quote:
Originally posted by MeEtc
No, this has nothing to do with school.

True, but the thing is, the school is allowed to be invovled when it risks the safety of its staff and students, and in this case, the moral safety for its principal.

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Rolando on 02-14-2007 at 01:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MenthiX

quote:
Originally posted by foaly
they should be suspended, purely for being so stupid to admit that they did it
So the should be suspended from their education because they're honest?

Most definitely.

I think is better to get a school suspension than having the principal suing you or something, if they knew it was you. Its only eight days anyways.. eight free days

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Chrono on 02-14-2007 at 02:43 AM

If im not mistaken, pretty much everywhere in the world he can sue someone for doing that (insulting, telling lies about a person) on tv for example, so why not the internet? it's pretty much the same

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Adeptus on 02-14-2007 at 03:09 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Chrono
If im not mistaken, pretty much everywhere in the world he can sue someone for doing that (insulting, telling lies about a person) on tv for example, so why not the internet?

Telling lies = yes. Insulting = not necessarily.

For example, if I were to post "Chrono kills kittens", you could sue me for libel. However, you would have to prove that statement isn't true to prevail (as opposed to me having to prove it is). That alone makes it complicated.

If I were to post "Chrono sucks, he is the worst moderator ever, I hate him, and I've heard he eats kittens", you would have nothing to sue for, as those are opinions and hearsay, not factual allegations. This is why news organizations are careful to use the word "allegedly" when reporting on crime -- it is the magic word that makes anything not libel and protects them from being sued later, should the suspect turn out innocent.

For the record, the above is based on US law and I like Chrono.

Regarding the principal's actions, I too agree that they are unreasonable and amount to abuse of position of power.

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Voldemort on 02-14-2007 at 03:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Adeptus
and amount to abuse of position of power.

Exactly. They act like that because they are angry, mad...

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by lizard.boy on 02-14-2007 at 04:08 AM

I'm gonna wander waaay off topic here, but none the less.

To be honest, I think this whole shabang is the dumbest thing I've heard in awhile. (My friends' dad teaches at Robert F. Hall SS, and I go to another school in the same school board system.) I think the students who posted the messages have some good reason to do so, although tbh, there telling the wrong person to suck "it".

Our school board (not the principal of the school) has banned all electronic/communications devices from the ENTIRE SCHOOL PREMISES. How is banning me from listening to my iPod in the cafeteria gonna help anything? (especially since we have a 75 minute lunch break).

In my opinion here is how the rules should be laid out:

No devices in exams, except standard calculators (no cell-phone calculators)

The rest of the time, it should be up to the teacher of the class. If the teacher wants to assign independent work, he/she should have the ability to allow kids to listen to music. Personally, I would much rather listen to music while doing my work and drown out the idiots in the classroom causing commotion.

Although I’m gonna admit, PSPs and DSs do not belong in the classroom.

I’m done. Yeah, its just a pile of my own opinions, make what you want of it.

edit: q25, we also have uniforms, I just live with that, its a convenience to me.

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Rolando on 02-14-2007 at 04:13 AM

At my school all electronic devices are banned too..., which seems quite reasonable. However, we still use them in some classes, just like hats, that are banned too. Some teacher just let us use them, even though it is "prohibited".

Personally, I don't think its that big of a deal. But that might be just me, since I come from a private school in Venezuela (before moving to the U.S.) where we had uniforms and we couldn't use electronic devices either (or we weren't supposed to)..

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by High Speed Chaser on 02-16-2007 at 08:48 AM

depends on how serious
at our school a few years ago at a school camp or out of school (can't remember) 3 kids in yr11 held another student in their class down and one kid pulled down his pants a sat on the face of the kid who was being held down
The person who sat on the other kid was expelled but as he was in Yr11 he still got to sit his VCE (answers definition) exams
if you ask me he should have not had the chance to sit his exams at the school

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by absorbation on 02-16-2007 at 09:52 AM

It is Internet bulling. It's morally wrong, and the police should be involved.

RE: RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by High Speed Chaser on 02-16-2007 at 10:04 AM

quote:
Originally posted by absorbation
It is Internet bulling. It's morally wrong, and the police should be involved.

I think anything outside of school should be dealt with by police

My sister went to a party and some bullies from school were looking at other girls from over the cubicles and that's a gross breach of privacy to look at some one while they are on the toilet (even if it's Borat)

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by Nagamasa on 03-24-2007 at 12:18 AM

I'm not trying to bump this like the other threads I did a while back, but its just that there is more news on this again, but now the situation escalated:

quote:
Students suspended for cyber-bullying school staff

Nicole Girardin
CanWest News Service; National Post

Friday, March 23, 2007

TORONTO - Three more Scarborough, Ont., high school students were suspended Thursday for "cyber-bullying" staff members, igniting a fresh debate on whether schools can impose limits on online speech.

Five Birchmount Park Collegiate Institute students have now been suspended between five and 20 days, after posting derogatory comments on the popular social-networking website Facebook.com.

The case comes in the wake of a similar incident last week in Sherwood Park, Alta., outside Edmonton, in which four students were expelled and 20 suspended for alleged cyber-bullying.

"These comments were so inappropriate that we had to take this seriously and take some action,"Anne Kerr, superintendent of southern Scarborough for the Toronto District School Board, said Thursday.

She characterized the comments as "defamatory, harassing, and unkind,"adding: "Our society doesn't give the right to slander or malign."

In an e-mail interview, one of the suspended students acknowledged setting up a "private" discussion group about a Birchmount Park vice-principal, but said the school has taken it "way out of hand."

Said Kerr: "There's nothing private about this. Look at the media frenzy we're in the middle of now and the people they're targeting. It's not fair, it's not right."

Kerr said the board has in recent years developed an online code of conduct, which is clearly spelled out in student handbooks.

Osgoode Hall Law professor Jamie Cameron said Thursday Internet postings are protected by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, although freedom of expression is subject to "reasonable limits."

"I find it odd that students would be suspended for expressive activities which were undertaken outside of school hours and without using school property," Cameron wrote in an e-mail Thursday.

Faye Mishna, an associate social work professor at the University of Toronto, said free speech allows you to say you're mad at someone, but not make derogatory comments about them.

National Post

News clip links available at http://www.canada.com/globaltv/ontario under Facebook: Cause of suspension

4 people were arrested, 1 was expelled.

I dont even know who's right and who's not now...both have so many pros and cons...

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by scott2010_h on 03-24-2007 at 03:09 AM

Schools now days are limiting our rights way to much and using expulsion and suspension way to much. Instead of makeing them leave school property make them stay in school but have little or no contact with the student body. Something like in-school suspension(More Punishment for them).

Edit: I Agree with CookieRevised

RE: RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by CookieRevised on 03-24-2007 at 03:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Nitro
Definetly not, what you do as a student outside school, isn't in general the school's business.

I like to differ.... Schools, just like youth movements or other organisations someone is in, have a big part to play into raising and teaching proper moral values. This goes also for outside the school gates.

quote:
Originally posted by saralk
well Internet Bullying is a crime, and what they were doing was internet bullying. The headmaster could potentially have filed a proper complaint and maybe have them charged, but they decided to suspend them instead.

So I say, justified.

NEXT CASE!

500% agreed

quote:
Originally posted by Voldemort
NOT unless that they actually did something against them..

Bullying and threatening shouldn't be tolerated.

quote:
Originally posted by Voldemort
I once created an email with a teachers name, fooled around with some people... no insults, no nothing... just chatting....

Which is extremely wrong (and even a crime in some countries; identity theft. You may not see it like this, but it is...)

quote:
Originally posted by Voldemort
i don't they can punish you IN SCHOOL for something you did outside of it... for example as if i egged a house and instead of the police taking me over my school expelled me automatically... unfair...

They have every right to do this, and they should.

Schools, just like youth movements or other organisations someone is in, have a big part to play into raising and teaching proper moral values. This goes also for outside the school gates.

quote:
Originally posted by .Lou
Well, having been part of a previous issue regarding the internet, and off school property stuff happening, I personally believe this to be unjustified. The principal had all the rights to sue the students, and etc. However, they did nothing wrong at school, and thus definitely should not be denied schooling for what happens outside school. If the comments had been posted while the students were inside the school, or using school computers, then the suspension would have been justified.

Hiding behind the fact that school equipment is used or not isn't the issue. The issue is the bad moral values of those students. And that is why they were punished.

quote:
Originally posted by .Lou
I'm quite sure that the school principal (the story having made it on the news) is going to regret the decision because parents are going to get angry most likely.

I'm puzzled at how easy this is twisted around. Tbh, the parents should be mad on their children for what they did. When I do something wrong, it is quite normal that my parents would be mad about it.

Also, there are more and more parents who are ignorant towards such stuff, and schools do need to take over the 'raising' and teaching moral values.

I stress on this because it seems that many times youngsters only see schools as a needed unpleasant thing where you learn some facts. While actually schools have a major huge responsebility on the upbringing of youngsters and teaching them how to behave, what is good and what is wrong, etc.... School isn't only about learning some facts which you read in a book.

quote:
Originally posted by Nagamasa
We have the right of speech don't we?

This doesn't have a single thing to do with "freedom of speech".

Why is "freedom of speech" always used to justify insulting? That is just as stupid as censoring on its own.

There is also something like common sense and having respect for others and opinion of others. And an opinion does not equal bullying, nor threatening. Freedom of speech is used way too much to justify things like this.

"freedom of speech" does not mean you can get away with bullying, threatening, insulting or whatever. It means you can state your opinion in a civil manner and differ from opinion withoug fearing punishment. It doesn't mean you can start insulting everybody and disrespect people/cultures.

Nor should "freedom of speech" ever be used to justify that.

quote:
Originally posted by Nagamasa

quote:
Originally posted by MeEtc
No, this has nothing to do with school.
True, but the thing is, the school is allowed to be invovled when it risks the safety of its staff and students, and in this case, the moral safety for its principal.

true to that too

quote:
Originally posted by lizard.boy
I'm gonna wander waaay off topic here, but none the less.
[snipped]

indeed, since what has been punished is not the fact that they discussed the banning of electronical equipment in the school. And that is apparently what some misunderstand about this issue.

What has been punished are the plain racist, sexist, immoral and severe threatening which happened. It wasn't a discussion at all anymore, even in the smallest sense...

--------------

Bullying and threatening always has been a big problem. And one of the first steps to erase it is to punish those who do it. And this starts almost always in the school itself. Bullying and threatening doesn't end once you step outside the school gates, hence why this shouldn't be ignored either. The school has every right, heck, even the duty, to punish such students.

I also think many people really underestimate what has been said on that group and really underestimate the implications or even the underlying thinking patterns, which are plain immoral and wrong. And underestimate what bullying and/or threatening means or can cause.

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by qgroessl on 03-24-2007 at 03:55 AM

I figured I'd leave my thoughts on this as well...

I am in between on it... Yes, the kids should be punished what they said and did was wrong... I disagree with the length of the suspension, it should be much shorter. Mostly because there was no threatening comments made, just insults.

WHILE if the students were having a conversation amongst themselves, none of this would have ever happened. If they go together at somebodys house, and talked about this, nobody would have proof it ever happened... They could've expressed their opinions clearly, and freely.

So in conclusion... The only reason I think what they did was wrong, was because of the environment the things were said. They put it on the internet for everybody in the world to read, which was wrong, but, if they would have got a get together and expressed their thoughts, I would have absoleutely no problem with that.

Off topic: It's like a local school around here, the teachers stumbled across a facebook profile that showed people drinking that were students. They did not get the police involved, but they were all suspended from extra curriculars and athletics because of an athletic code of conduct violoation. (which is basically a contract prohibiting smoking, drinking, and agreeing to rules the school sets for eligibility)... Is it right for the athletes to get suspended based on pictures?... i don't think so, but, apparently the school board did.

RE: RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by CookieRevised on 03-24-2007 at 04:05 AM

quote:
Originally posted by UTI
WHILE if the students were having a conversation amongst themselves, none of this would have ever happened. If they go together at somebodys house, and talked about this, nobody would have proof it ever happened... They could've expressed their opinions clearly, and freely.

and that would make it alright?

Also, an opinion does not equal bullying, insults and threatening.

quote:
Originally posted by UTI
Off topic: It's like a local school around here, the teachers stumbled across a facebook profile that showed people drinking that were students. They did not get the police involved, but they were all suspended from extra curriculars and athletics because of an athletic code of conduct violoation. (which is basically a contract prohibiting smoking, drinking, and agreeing to rules the school sets for eligibility)... Is it right for the athletes to get suspended based on pictures?... i don't think so, but, apparently the school board did.

yes it is absolutely right.

The "contract" prohibits drinking, smoking, etc. They violated it. Peroid.

Also, the school does have the right for this and it even has reasons for making such a contract. Since they shouldn't be held responsible if a student has a sporting accident because of his/her drinking outside of the school.

If they found out a student was drinking, I find it logic and even right for the school to act against it in this way.

RE: Local High School Suspensions: Your Opinion? by qgroessl on 03-24-2007 at 11:03 AM

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Also, the school does have the right for this and it even has reasons for making such a contract

Not saying they don't... I just don't think it's fair to do it the way they did.