Before I say anything, please don't let this turn into a flame feast. It's a serious topic.

I'm curious to know everyone's views and thoughts on gay marriage. It's becoming a bigger and bigger issue in the United States, and it's even outlawed in many states, including my own.

What is your views and thoughts?

if two people love each other, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to get married =p

quote:

---

Originally posted by -dt-
if two people love each other, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to get married =p

---

don't see an issue with it

I don't see why it should be outlawed. I understand if the churches don't want to marry gay couples, but that should be up to them to decide, not the states. They should definitely be allowed to "register" their relationship (not sure what it's called in English, when you just go to some office and say that you are now married, which gives you all the benefits of a married couple in the eyes of the law).
Over here, gay marriage is legal, and some priests are letting them have their wedding in the church (which usually causes some controversy, as the church has no official standpoint on this that I know of, and there are many against it as well).

I don't care, does not affect how I live in anyway .

Sure, you only live once so you might as well be happy.

I just don't see why everybody cares so much about the government acknowledging their marriage. Just have both partners agree on marriage without signing any contracts to the government and its the exact same. Prevents the ridiculous divorces too.

quote:

---

Originally posted by SonicSam
I don't care, does not affect how I live in anyway .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by -dt-
if two people love each other, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to get married =p

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RebelSean

quote:

---

Originally posted by -dt-
if two people love each other, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to get married =p

---

My government sees a marriage between a man and a women. They have also have stated that it's "against God", but then that goes back to the separation between church and state. They've removed the Ten Commandments out of every state & local office, but they're outlawing gay marriage. It's contradictory.

---

I see no problem with it, and like dt said, if you love each enough enough, then why shouldn't you be able marry.

Once again: Damned religions *shakes fist*

I dont really care either, but there is 1 thing that  bothers alot of people. That if a gay couple adopted a child, the child would have trouble understanding why there is 2 guys together or 2 women together, also the child might turn gay becuase he/her parents are gay, children look up to there parents and there parents are kind of there roll model. Plus there is the matter of getting picked on, becuase he/her has gay parents.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
also the child might turn gay becuase he/her parents are gay

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by vaccination

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
also the child might turn gay becuase he/her parents are gay

---

So?

What's wrong with the child turning gay too?

I also can't see that much of a problem with a gay couple adopting either, they should be aloud to have kids and feel that love there is between child and parent.

But the bullying would be stupid and not nice for the child. But that is  society's fault for having a problem with gays =/

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
I dont really care either, but there is 1 thing that  bothers alot of people. That if a gay couple adopted a child, the child would have trouble understanding why there is 2 guys together or 2 women together, also the child might turn gay becuase he/her parents are gay, children look up to there parents and there parents are kind of there roll model. Plus there is the matter of getting picked on, becuase he/her has gay parents.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vilkku

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
I dont really care either, but there is 1 thing that  bothers alot of people. That if a gay couple adopted a child, the child would have trouble understanding why there is 2 guys together or 2 women together, also the child might turn gay becuase he/her parents are gay, children look up to there parents and there parents are kind of there roll model. Plus there is the matter of getting picked on, becuase he/her has gay parents.

---

Yes, but that is a separate matter. There are other things to marriage than children.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
But what people fear is that, the child will turn gay becuase he sees hes parents are so he thinks thats how he is supose to be. When we are all young and are growing up, we look on our parents as roll models.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
I dont really care either, but there is 1 thing that  bothers alot of people. That if a gay couple adopted a child, the child would have trouble understanding why there is 2 guys together or 2 women together, also the child might turn gay becuase he/her parents are gay, children look up to there parents and there parents are kind of there roll model. Plus there is the matter of getting picked on, becuase he/her has gay parents.

---

I'm against it, but I don't really care much about it.

The religious crap isn't what bothers me, but rather the social implications. Marriage has always been between a man and a woman... it's an important and well-established tradition in our society. Allowing same-sex couples to be legally married changes the definition of marriage. I don't like change.

Also, it could create a slippery slope... what sorts of marriage will be legalized next?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate (Quote corrected for spelling)
That if a gay couple adopted a child, the child would have trouble understanding why there is 2 guys together or 2 women together, also the child might turn gay because his/her parents are gay; children look up to their parents and their parents are kind of their role models. Plus there is the matter of getting picked on, because he/she has gay parents.

---

I disagree with WDZ, and totally agree with all other people. Nothing much to add, everything important has already been said:

- Seperation between church and state
- Law and governement forsees many benefits of married couples. Why should people who love eachother be denied these benefits.
- Children of gay couples do not turn gay automatically (that's pure crap)
- Children of gay couples are no different than other children. (in fact, they may be raised in a more liberal open-minded environment, which, in my eyes, is good)

Though, one thing I haven't seen in this thread yet (explicitly):
- There are two kinds of marriage: marrying before law and marring before the church.

I could understand why marrying before the church (catholic) is not allowed in some countries by the church. Though, this raises the question in how 'straightforward' the catholic church is, since it is allowed in some countries. Go figure...

I can not understand why it would not be allowed to be married before the law though (Unless church and state is not seperated, although that isn't a good thing either, imho).

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
Though, one thing I haven't seen in this thread yet (explicitly):
- There are two kinds of marriage: marrying before law and marring before the church.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vilkku
I understand if the churches don't want to marry gay couples, but that should be up to them to decide, not the states. They should definitely be allowed to "register" their relationship (not sure what it's called in English, when you just go to some office and say that you are now married, which gives you all the benefits of a married couple in the eyes of the law).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by WDZ
I'm against it, but I don't really care much about it.

The religious crap isn't what bothers me, but rather the social implications. Marriage has always been between a man and a woman... it's an important and well-established tradition in our society. Allowing same-sex couples to be legally married changes the definition of marriage. I don't like change.

Also, it could create a slippery slope... what sorts of marriage will be legalized next?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate (Quote corrected for spelling)
That if a gay couple adopted a child, the child would have trouble understanding why there is 2 guys together or 2 women together, also the child might turn gay because his/her parents are gay; children look up to their parents and their parents are kind of their role models. Plus there is the matter of getting picked on, because he/she has gay parents.

---

I kind of agree with this. Think of the children!

If same-sex marriage is legalized, I imagine lots of people will have difficulty getting used to it...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by -dt-
if two people love each other, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to get married =p

---

Marriage in my eyes is mostly to arrange certain law things (heritage, childrens last name, quicker way to a permit to stay in the country of the loved one etc.). Besides that it's an extra promise to stay together (for whatever meaning that still has nowadays with all them divorces...if one thing it does make separating more of a hassle, more painfull law stuff to go through). If a couple of same sexe is living together like opposite sexe couples do and they wish to have these things arranged then i don't see why that shouldn't be possible.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
also the child might turn gay becuase he/her parents are gay, children look up to there parents and there parents are kind of there roll model.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by WDZ
Also, it could create a slippery slope... what sorts of marriage will be legalized next?

---

Government and religion are two different things, although they often come as a package. I see why gay partnerships should be made legal, as it discriminates against people who don't have religion.

quote:

---

Originally posted by -dt-
if two people love each other, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to get married =p

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by WDZ
[qoute]
Originally posted by Discrate (Quote corrected for spelling)
That if a gay couple adopted a child, the child would have trouble understanding why there is 2 guys together or 2 women together, also the child might turn gay because his/her parents are gay; children look up to their parents and their parents are kind of their role models. Plus there is the matter of getting picked on, because he/she has gay parents.

---

I don't think it's such a good idea to have a baby with two dads... 
I don't have a problem with it, but It's the bullying that they'll get from so many people at their schools who DO have a problem with it.

Christian* religion is the foundation of bigotry. They have these sayings like "respect your neighbor" that are always forgotten, instead they hold on to punishments and bloody fairy tales.

Same-sex marriages must be allowed. As well as adoptions, for those couples. There shouldn't even be a discussion about it (in the government).

As long as governments listen to the church, they will never move on.


* When I say "Christian religion" I'm talking about religions that have their roots in God and Jesus (Catholic, Christian, etc.).

I have no problem with gay marriage in general, it's when children become involved that it becomes an issue for me.

Everyone who says "oh they have open minded parenting", or "they'll be more equipped for society" are turning a blind eye to the large numbers of people in society who have a problem with gays. The "children" of these gay parents are automatically stereotyped, and generalised - I can't see any kid on their first day of school going up and saying "oh by the way I have two dads" without any issue. They will be bullied, they could be embarrassed, it can cause many social problems.

I'm not saying that this is the fault of the fathers themselves, it's just the way society is and there's no way around it.

As stated by several people, there's no reason to stop marriage between to people if they love each other.
Before religion mattered really much in our world, now it's not that important, but still some countries take them a bit too serious. Religion shouldn't have a shit to do with lawes (IMO), as it's not the religion that's supposed to control a country.

In Norway, there's been huge discussions on this, and it's still blurry, but if your gay/bi/lesbian you can marry one of your own sexual alignment. However you can't adopt a kid, so it proves that religion has too much power than it should. I doubt that the contries are going to just suddenly switch neutral, but we're allowed to hope.

If you love someone, you love he/she, and the state/country/laws should have anything to do with that. It's your personal way of beeing, and you're just as human as everyone else.

It would be discrimination if it wasn't allowed, but I really don't like to see them kissing in public. In the Netherlands it is already allowed since 2001. In the United States it will probably last a decennium or 2 before they change mind. People there are all religious.

The United States say they are liberal, but actually they aren't.

Yeah... my views on gay marriage are completely summed up by the name of a facebook group I'm in.

Against gay marriage? Then don't get one and shut the f*ck up.

the funny part is this is just a semantic issue

the definition of marriage is between man and woman

once they change it for gay marriage, some idiot in the corner will want to legalize bestiality too

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vilkku
I understand if the churches don't want to marry gay couples, but that should be up to them to decide, not the states. They should definitely be allowed to "register" their relationship (not sure what it's called in English, when you just go to some office and say that you are now married, which gives you all the benefits of a married couple in the eyes of the law).

---

Something I heard one day that I thought really summed things up properly: "Gays have the right to be as miserable as any other person so let them get married".

So really, why should we care? and ShawnZ, don't you think it's going to far to compare gay marriage with animal sex? if a guy loves another guy and wants to live with him, I really don't see why any of us whould have anything to say about it. As for the definition of marriage, it's touchy because it depends on everybody's beleif. I'm for allowing it as state union but let's not push it by forcing churches to recognize it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by -dt-
if two people love each other, I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to get married =p

---

Why on earth would two parents of the same gender not be able to raise children, or why would it be bad 'for the children'... that completely beats me...

Rollmodels? sorry, but look at the kids of today and how much the parents are at home or do the upraising. Aka: so it is ok to have a farther who is never at home, it is ok to live with a divorced parent, but it isn't ok to have two parents of the same gender?....

Two words for it, it starts with B and S and ends with L and T...

If two people of the same gender want to adopt or even raise a child, why not... They will probably do better than many other non-gay parents.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
Why on earth would two parents of the same gender not be able to raise children, or why would it be bad 'for the children'... that completely beats me...

Rollmodels? sorry, but look at the kids of today and how much the parents are at home or do the upraising. Aka: so it is ok to have a farther who is never at home, it is ok to live with a divorced parent, but it isn't ok to have two parents of the same gender?....

Two words for it, it starts with B and S and ends with L and T...

If two people of the same gender want to adopt or even raise a child, why not... They will probably do better than many other non-gay parents.

---

i don't care tbh

so long as it's not a requirement for me to marry another girl .. i'm ok with it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by ShawnZ

once they change it for gay marriage, some idiot in the corner will want to legalize bestiality too

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patchou
I'm for allowing it as state union but let's not push it by forcing churches to recognize it.

---

well... I don't really care about it...

I'm pissed about people calling other people intolerant just because they do not agree with it... and also pissed at people that tells me that 'its not what god wants'

Let the people vote on it and if the majority agrees... well, then that settles it.

it doesn't bother me.  they should be able to have the same rights as straight people

quote:

---

Originally posted by WDZ
Allowing same-sex couples to be legally married changes the definition of marriage. I don't like change.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Patchou
Something I heard one day that I thought really summed things up properly: "Gays have the right to be as miserable as any other person so let them get married".

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Omar
Let the people vote on it and if the majority agrees... well, then that settles it.

---

I've always believed that marriage is a primitive instinct - a built in mechanism to keep parents together after they've had a child. Because in the days of old, if there was a strong male out doing the hunting, and a loving mother looking after the child, then that child would have a higher chance to grow up than one that got abandoned when father went out to hunt, etc.

Buuuut... Tescos do our hunting these days, and we're not that primitive anymore. So there's nothing wrong with gay marriage. (Actually, there's not much point in marriage at all these days except for the tax benefits, etc. - because even if you get pregnant outside of marriage, the father can still be made to pay money ("alimony" or something, I think its called) to support the child.)

But hey, weddings are fun. So I'm all for it.

First, going to start this post by stating I'm not a homophobe. I know a few people who have come out & I am fine with them and them doing whatever they want.

I'm against gay marriages.

quote:

---

Originally posted by WDZ
The religious crap isn't what bothers me, but rather the social implications. Marriage has always been between a man and a woman... it's an important and well-established tradition in our society.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Boulton
First, going to start this post by stating I'm not a homophobe. I know a few people who have come out & I am fine with them and them doing whatever they want.

I'm against gay marriages.

quote:

---

Originally posted by WDZ
The religious crap isn't what bothers me, but rather the social implications. Marriage has always been between a man and a woman... it's an important and well-established tradition in our society.

---

Bingo.

And those saying that it has nothing to do with adopting children etc - yes, it will affect that child a lot. Maybe not to be point of them also being gay but it will.

Children are raised with the ideology (at a young age) that there should be a mother and a father in a relationship and a family. Whilst they may learn this outside, it's the affect of living in a family with something different.

The thing is, children (and especially young ones) DO look up to their parents on how a life should be and as role models.

---

If two people love each other, there shouldn't be any reason they aren't allowed to marry.

If you have a problem with it, you could learn to ignore it. Or better yet, get a broader perspective on life.

If its religious reasons that you state then I must say they are total crap. Reasons like "God said blah blah" isn't a valid reason imo. Did he say same sex marriages are not allowed? And then again we know this forum's views on God so lets leave that point aside.

If you mean social reasons like smurfi said, that needs a bit more of thought. But imo in his example marriage isn't the problem, adoption is. Then that's one for the adoption agencies to look out for. Why not allow them to marry? Having a family on the other hand can be a bit more complicated It (having same sexed parents) doesn't necessarily mean that it would have a bad influence on the kids or the parents might not be good or anything. But it could be that way. We have a million cases in our society where the case is the same. Its not always bad but it could be. What do we do there?

My answer is a "yes, it should be allowed"

I don't know, I just believe a marriage should be between a man and a woman, and not for people of the same gender.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Boulton
First, going to start this post by stating I'm not a homophobe. I know a few people who have come out & I am fine with them and them doing whatever they want.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Boulton
And those saying that it has nothing to do with adopting children etc - yes, it will affect that child a lot. Maybe not to be point of them also being gay but it will.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Boulton
Children are raised with the ideology (at a young age) that there should be a mother and a father in a relationship and a family. Whilst they may learn this outside, it's the affect of living in a family with something different.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chris Boulton
The thing is, children (and especially young ones) DO look up to their parents on how a life should be and as role models.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by J.J
I don't know, I just believe a marriage should be between a man and a woman, and not for people of the same gender.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by linx05
After reading through your post it seems you are a homophobe. What you posted told me that you are scared what two parents of the same sex could do to a child. It seems you are fine with these "people" as "homosexuals" doing whatever they want except for getting married and raising a child. I wonder what they would think if you told them you were against it. How you thought they, being a couple of the same sex, could affect a child so drastically that it would change the childs life forever.

---

I am not religious but I really would like to see what bible passage says being gay is Satanistic.

i see people who get married because a brief moment of love and then they decide they hate each other after 6 months (then getting divorced)..now people who do appreciate marriage (whether gay or straight or bi or whatever) should be able to get married.

Personally it doesn't bother me. If that is what they want, then so be it. At least now here in the UK they are able to recognise that love that they share through civil partnerships, and to be honest, I don't see why they should.

I suppose I can't really say anything since, as a nurse in training, I have to respect the decisions that the patient/client makes. I suppose where difficults lie is when they are in hospital and there are patients and vistors who don't agree with it. It's a decision that they have made and I don't think we should prosectute those who dare to be different. If we were all the same, then progress would never be made

Sooner or later things will change..

In the future, married gay couples will be common and adopted children probably wont be a problem anymore because they will not feel "different"...

The world changes..and it takes its own special period of time for changes to happen.
Trying to go too fast or too slowly can cause serious troubles in society.
If gays and people who support gay marriages really bother about this then they should keep fighting for it (that fight causes everyone around to be more and more aware of the problem, making it easier for the change to happen) and it will end up being legalised.
At the moment i honestly think we are not ready for this change..but i see absolutely no problem about gay marriage itself..

i basically think like surfi. i'm not a homophobe, in fact my best friend is gay. I'm not against gay marriage at all, but i dont like the idea of them adopting a child, for the simple fact that the poor kid would probably be teased at school and i'd hate it tbh, lol . Uhm, and most importantly () cause i think it's really important for a kid to have a mum, a female image.

Kind of off the conversation, but I had something said to me today that I found rather amusing. I work as a child care person at a school for pre-primary and elementary children.
Anyways, one of them comes up to me today, she is 4 years old I think, and says "If a boy marries another boy, they're not allowed having a baby"

I was like, WTF? random much? (no, I didn't say that to the poor girl) Otherwise, this girl is the sweetest kid you could ever meet.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chrono
I'm not against gay marriage at all, but i dont like the idea of them adopting a child, for the simple fact that the poor kid would probably be teased at school and i'd hate it tbh, lol . Uhm, and most importantly () cause i think it's really important for a kid to have a mum, a female image.

---

About female role models (or male in lesbian marriages), what is wrong in having an aunt or grandma (and also don't forget about teachers in school... school has a very big impact on education and raising)? Quite often the female role model is done by a female member of the family, this doesn't need to be the 'mother' at all...

If you find it wrong, then what about all those families where the mother has died when the child was very young, etc? Are all those childen "fucked up" then too? I think not...

quote:

---

Originally posted by andrewdodd13
The other thing is, in Human Biology right now, we're learning about birth and infant development. Practically everywhere it is talking about the bond between a mother and her child, but not the father. He's rarely mentioned at all.

And as far as I know, it's quite hard for a man to lactate - everyone knows there are benefits to breast milk rather than the artificial stuff (in the first few weeks after birth the mother's breast milk actually contains a high amount of antibodies, which are important so the baby doesn't get seriously ill).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by paperless
Sooner or later things will change..
(...)
In the future, married gay couples will be common and adopted children probably wont be a problem anymore because they will not feel "different"...

---

Sorry to bring back this thread... but I know people have this opinion... and I figured I'd post this news article...
Lesbian asks courts to deny gay adoption


EDIT: and apparently I don'tk now how to put urls, but fixed now.

I don't agree with this btw... I think it's crap.

It should be allowed.

I couldn't care less, I'm not gay, and I know very few gay people.  If they wanted me to support it, I would, because they're my friends.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chrono
i basically think like surfi. i'm not a homophobe, in fact my best friend is gay. I'm not against gay marriage at all, but i dont like the idea of them adopting a child, for the simple fact that the poor kid would probably be teased at school and i'd hate it tbh, lol . Uhm, and most importantly ( cause i think it's really important for a kid to have a mum, a female image.

---

So it seems there is more people for gay marriage. Great to see I think. I am still interested in Chris's final reply as he said I missed some things.

Entirely for it. No reason at all that it should be a problem. The arguments about it traditionally being a ceremony between a man and a woman are ridiculous, there are many other traditions that have changed as we became less ignorant. Marriage is also traditionally a religious ceremony, but I very much doubt that the majority of people getting married today (in places like the UK, at least) are religious. If people dislike the idea of it because it's traditionally for different-sex couples, they obviously have a problem with gay people whether they'll admit it or not.

As for the matter of gay couples adopting children, I see no reason why there should be a problem for the child. I haven't studied psychology, so I'm not pretending I know all about it , but when a child has two same-sex parents who love and care for it, it is surely better than a child who has had one of its parents abandon it at a young age, leaving it with either an all-male or all-female influence (which isn't exactly uncommon - especially here in chavland ). The child is going to experience hundreds of different people (as well as plenty of other couples, so it's not going to have the idea that same-sex couples are "the norm") as it grows up, so it'll have plenty of female figures in its life (neighbours, teachers, aunts, grandmas...)

I'm fine with gay marriage. gays raising children its fine as well. as long as the couple is financial stable and completely supportive i don't see a reason why they cant have a child. as for the mother figure ... there are plenty of other female role models for the child

(EX: grandma, aunts, friends etc)

quote:

---

Originally posted by J.J
I don't know, I just believe a marriage should be between a man and a woman, and not for people of the same gender.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RebelSean

quote:

---

Originally posted by J.J
I don't know, I just believe a marriage should be between a man and a woman, and not for people of the same gender.

---

I'm a curious person, as you already know, and I'd like to hear why you think marriage should be between a man and a women. I'm not going to troll you or anything, I'm just curious .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
maybe becuase its not normal...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by RebelSean

quote:

---

Originally posted by Discrate
maybe becuase its not normal...

---

How is it not normal? In todays society it's everywhere. It's been happening for quite some time now, but has recently became an "issue" for the government.

---

"normal" in this case is just a thing which you define. What is abnormal for you can be perfectly normal for the majority of others.

Thus if you find it not normal, is the same as you believing it is not right... Hence not an answer on why you find it not normal...

eg:
I find it not normal
Why?
I believe it is not right
Why???
I find it not normal
Why????
I believe it is not right
Why????
etc...