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Digg? by ipab on 05-02-2007 at 05:16 AM
I figured I'd post here to kinda vent / get user opinion on what's going on at digg.com
For those who are unaware of what has gone on in the past 24 hrs, basically, some user posted the volume decryption key for HD DVDs in general, and due to the MPAA contacting digg about it, the user was deleted and so was the article.
Now because of that, people have absolutely gone nuts and digg has basically shit itself and the first 2 pages are filled with this key. It's by far the most immature / ridiculous thing I have witnessed ever since I have started using the internet.
I must say that it was a little ironic that digg's popularity is based on the fact that it relies on user submitted articles and yet it censors this topic, but I guess being a company, they have to follow certain guidelines in order to avoid legal action...
I guess, I'm just appalled at the level of immaturity that the exists at digg.com... 
RE: Digg? by Vilkku on 05-02-2007 at 05:49 AM
Read all about it. I think people are just stupid, they should respect that Digg are trying to stay online instead of just messig it up for the mods there. Well, they are allowing the stories now, but they are STILL spamming stories with the code... people can be idiots.
RE: Digg? by ipab on 05-02-2007 at 05:53 AM
Poor Kevin...
I genuinely feel bad for the guy...
RE: Digg? by WDZ on 05-02-2007 at 06:02 AM
FFS, I had a quick look at Digg and that's ridiculous...
Digg always ends up annoying me whenever I spend more than a few minutes there... 
Related rants...
http://gracefulflavor.net/2006/12/07/diggs-signal...pside-down-for-me/
http://gracefulflavor.net/2006/12/09/not-only-is-...s-are-tedious-too/
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/a...oveling_on_di.html
http://jeffnolan.com/wp/2006/11/21/im-done-with-digg/
http://www.textually.org/textually/archives/2006/11/014189.htm
RE: Digg? by Menthix on 05-02-2007 at 12:43 PM
I'd just like to say... 09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
RE: Digg? by linx05 on 05-02-2007 at 02:24 PM
It did change Diggs mind. I didn't exactly like the way they did it (the users) but I am sick of people succumbing to these big companies.
Three freeware twos have been killed off, two weren't even to do with removing the copy-protection and all the forums for discussing decrypting has been removed on Digital Digest. I am aware that the guy who owns the forum (lives in Australia btw) gets in all the trouble but someone has to stand up to these companies.
Also, that processing key (see MenthiX's post) has become redundant I think. With the new HD DVDs out they've made a new one.
RE: Digg? by Joe on 05-02-2007 at 02:43 PM
A majority of the regular visitors to Digg, IMO, are completely biased on whatever comes up. You can see this in the amount of diggs and buries certain comments and stories get.
They acted very immaturely and I was getting ticked. Now, however, the stories have cleared and we're back to the stories I'm used to.
RE: Digg? by linx05 on 05-02-2007 at 03:14 PM
Hey, it's just one big website to stand up to the big corps.
RE: Digg? by absorbation on 05-02-2007 at 05:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WDZ
Digg always ends up annoying me whenever I spend more than a few minutes there... (Smilie)
True, it is full of immature geeks. I can't believe some of the behaviour on there, people should act their age and not result to such childish actions.
The whole Atheistism trend, hate for the RIAA and news from unreliable sources really does annoy me.
RE: Digg? by Verte on 05-03-2007 at 03:05 PM
I followed all of that from the comfort of slashdot. I don't think the digg users were being immature at all, it's a fight for freedom and it's time the mafiaa fell. The leaking of the processing key should be a message to all the do-gooders out there: DRM doesn't work. It stops legitimate users, but if you've given people the tools to watch the media you've also given them the tools to copy it, obscure or not. It's only the average Joe or Jane that suffers, the crackers don't even flinch.
RE: Digg? by CookieRevised on 05-03-2007 at 03:38 PM
Fight for freedom? Freedom of speech? Standing up against big companies? Those are only (mostly) used by immature kiddies who think steeling is cool who have no clue at all.
If you want to do something against copy protections STOP COPYING STUFF IN THE FIRST PLACE.
RE: RE: Digg? by Verte on 05-03-2007 at 04:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Fight for freedom? Freedom of speech? Standing up against big companies? Those are only (mostly) used by immature kiddies who think steeling is cool who have no clue at all.
If you want to do something against copy protections STOP COPYING STUFF IN THE FIRST PLACE.
A wise friend once told me that all the laws and rules passed will not stop idiots from existing. You can drop the speed limit to 10, stick traffic lights at every intersection, lower the legal BAC and raise the drinking age, but you will still get people driving like idiots on the road. I think a big part of having a sane government is knowing when more restrictions won't solve the problem.
It's for that reason that I'm glad they broke that AACS DRM. It doesn't bother me in a big way, if there's a decent movie out there it will be on SBS. But DRM needs to be broken publicly and completely, so people know: all the legislation and encryption in the world will not stop the pirate crackers. You've either got to have a secure design, which isn't possible with a portable format, or accept that if you sell a movie people are going to copy it, and then hunt them down and sue them.
Hoping that these idiots stop is a grand outlook, but it's just not going to happen. Unless you've got some sort of genie or something. DRM is not a genie.
RE: Digg? by Dr4g0n on 05-03-2007 at 04:29 PM
quote:Many people copy DVDs for legitimate reasons, such as backing it up so that children can't damage the only copy when using it.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Fight for freedom? Freedom of speech? Standing up against big companies? Those are only (mostly) used by immature kiddies who think steeling is cool who have no clue at all.
If you want to do something against copy protections STOP COPYING STUFF IN THE FIRST PLACE.
DRM only seems to stop the average user, crackers will always find a way around it so it doesn't really affect them. So the only people put out are average users that are limited by DRM (like users of the iTunes Music Store being unable to put their songs on non-iPod players because of the DRM).
At the end of the day, if it can be seen or heard, it can and will be copied.
RE: Digg? by CookieRevised on 05-03-2007 at 10:38 PM
DRM and other similar copy protections came to live only because there were too many illegal copies being seld and put for download, etc. Not because the average Joe made a copy to protect the original.... That's my point.
If people continue to copy stuff to give away, put for download, etc, it is only very normal that the 'industry' will come up with something else because the original authors _do_ loose money over it (despite all hard fairytails and myths floating around (mostly on the net... obviously))...
Then you can again complain 'they' punish the average Joe. Complain to those who make illegal copies instead I'd say.
I'm not mad at all at the 'industry' for having copy protections, even not when I want to make a copy of the original for safe keeping. If I would be mad I would be mad at the people who think copying something from someone else isn't harmfull or isn't stealing money from the original author.
EDIT: "Words aren't cold yet" like they say, and I already came across a thread again on these forums regarding illegal exchange/copying stuff.... That is what I mean...
RE: Digg? by linx05 on 05-05-2007 at 09:03 AM
This is more about standing up to the big guy. These companies have done some pretty nasty and wrong things to prevent illegal copies. Lets hope we see more and more of this kind of thing. The small guys standing up to the big guys!
RE: Digg? by CookieRevised on 05-05-2007 at 10:26 AM
I do not see how trying to protect someone's income/property is wrong.
And it starts with the 'little guys', namely you and me. How many of the people using mIRC actually payed for it for example?
It are those 'little guys' who copy and distribute stuff thinking they do nothing wrong, yet it are those very same 'little guys' who complain when a company is trying todo something against it...
If you want to do something against it or stand up against it, you should start by standing up against your friends and those other 'little guys' who copy stuff, use serialz, warez, cracks, etc.
If you stop copying, using serials, cracks, etc, the 'big companies' wouldn't have any reason to try to prevent illegal distribution...
RE: Digg? by Jhrono on 05-05-2007 at 10:30 AM
Oh yeah.. Grow habits ffs.. I buy cds all the time, and guess what, much better audio quality..
It's basicly the same with DVDs. If you can afford a computer, a internet connection, lights etc, you can surely afford a DVD once in a while?
And it's basicly the same for games bla bla bla
Don't forget, this is the internet and we're on a "pretty" global market right now. You may choose from wherever is cheaper to buy your products. Per example, my last purchases were made off the UK.. They give you every choice possible, the best prices, everything, don't screw them with piracy
RE: Digg? by Verte on 05-05-2007 at 03:18 PM
But Cookie, clearly the Mafiaa aren't trying to stop illegal copying and the like, because they have made it so easy for anyone with some technical know how and some time on their hands to do so. It'd be nice if they did screw the people doing the wrong thing, but they aren't. The question is then, what ARE they doing?
RE: Digg? by L. Coyote on 05-05-2007 at 03:46 PM
I've always wondered what Digg was about. And the hype actually made me register there and grab the feeds. 
When I saw the key in PirateBay a few days ago I didn't think it would be soooo chaotic. Woot! I love Internet Dramas.
RE: Digg? by absorbation on 05-05-2007 at 04:20 PM
Cookie expresses my feelings completely .
RE: Digg? by linx05 on 05-06-2007 at 09:43 AM
quote:Me neither. Except when they start using tactics which prevent us even watching the DVD I bought with our own money on our own computer or DVD player. There are a couple of protections that are so mangled and illegal (spec wise) that DVD players and computers choke.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
I do not see how trying to protect someone's income/property is wrong.
quote:This is a completely different circumstance. People make cracks and keygens so that users do not have to pay for the program. Now, people make programs designed to remove the protection on their DVDs so they can back them up and do what they feel to them.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
And it starts with the 'little guys', namely you and me. How many of the people using mIRC actually payed for it for example?
quote:We have a right to backup our DVDs. We have a right to change whatever we want with them. I remove all the ads and crap from my backups. We also have a right to watch the movie I bought on anything in my house.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
It are those 'little guys' who copy and distribute stuff thinking they do nothing wrong, yet it are those very same 'little guys' who complain when a company is trying todo something against it...
quote:You're going to tell me they would stop putting on protections once pirating DVDs ceased? Tell me another one
Originally posted by CookieRevised
If you want to do something against it or stand up against it, you should start by standing up against your friends and those other 'little guys' who copy stuff, use serialz, warez, cracks, etc.
If you stop copying, using serials, cracks, etc, the 'big companies' wouldn't have any reason to try to prevent illegal distribution...
. One of the benifits of removing the protection on a HD DVD is that you can watch it on a monitor and video card which is not HDCP compatible. Otherwise you would have to go and buy a new monitor and card just to watch the movies on your computer. And that would cost a bit, especially after just having bought a HD DVD reader.In short, the way these companies treat its customers is absurd. Not everyone goes around stealing just because they can. Long live copy protection removal I say. It fills in the holes which the company cannot forfill.
RE: RE: Digg? by CookieRevised on 05-06-2007 at 01:20 PM
quote:If there are such protections than don't buy that specific edition, but buy one which doesn't have that restrictions. Such restrictions are almost always written on the box...
Originally posted by linx05
quote:Me neither. Except when they start using tactics which prevent us even watching the DVD I bought with our own money on our own computer or DVD player. There are a couple of protections that are so mangled and illegal (spec wise) that DVD players and computers choke.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
I do not see how trying to protect someone's income/property is wrong.
If you buy something which states 'can't be played on the pc' and you play it on a pc, it is your own fault, harsh, but true...
quote:This is related though. It does start with things like using a keygen. It are such actions why people/companies search for ways to prevent it. It are those things which make it look 'normal' to copy stuff and use illegal materials. People now don't even consider it bad to use serialz. It is this state of mind which is not 'normal' at all... But it is done on such a large scale that many people don't even think about it anymore and don't see what they do is wrong. And then they complain that companies try to protect their income....
Originally posted by linx05
quote:This is a completely different circumstance. People make cracks and keygens so that users do not have to pay for the program. Now, people make programs designed to remove the protection on their DVDs so they can back them up and do what they feel to them.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
And it starts with the 'little guys', namely you and me. How many of the people using mIRC actually payed for it for example?
quote:You actually do not have every right. And certainly do not have any right to alter stuff, even for you own use!!!
Originally posted by linx05
quote:We have a right to backup our DVDs. We have a right to change whatever we want with them. I remove all the ads and crap from my backups. We also have a right to watch the movie I bought on anything in my house.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
It are those 'little guys' who copy and distribute stuff thinking they do nothing wrong, yet it are those very same 'little guys' who complain when a company is trying todo something against it...
quote:Then don't buy such a DVD if you can't watch it.... or don't complain or don't accuse the companies to screw you. It is clearly stated on the box that it is a HD DVD, requiring DHCP equipment. If you don't have that, buy the normal edition...
Originally posted by linx05
quote:You're going to tell me they would stop putting on protections once pirating DVDs ceased? Tell me another one
Originally posted by CookieRevised
If you want to do something against it or stand up against it, you should start by standing up against your friends and those other 'little guys' who copy stuff, use serialz, warez, cracks, etc.
If you stop copying, using serials, cracks, etc, the 'big companies' wouldn't have any reason to try to prevent illegal distribution...
This is almost the same as me complaining to a company who makes Mac software for not letting me run it on a PC...
And yes, if nobody would copy stuff anymore (which will never happen of course), then there is no reason for the big companies to put money into developping new copy protections...
quote:If you don't do anything illegal, you also would have no reason to remove a copy protection in the first place.
Originally posted by linx05
In short, the way these companies treat its customers is absurd. Not everyone goes around stealing just because they can. Long live copy protection removal I say. It fills in the holes which the company cannot forfill.
There are some copy protections which are not that good, user-friendly-wise. But those are not used anymore. The issue, as I see it, is about the general state of mind "there is nothing wrong in copying and spreading stuff' and/or "it wont hurt anybody if I crack that program".
IMO, companies don't even do enough to fight illegal copying. And I would love to see them sueing eveybody and making copy protections even harder and what not. I have absolutely no problem with that; I buy my DVD if I like a movie, I don't need to download a crappy bootleg.
RE: Digg? by Volv on 05-06-2007 at 01:23 PM
quote:Actually you don't, just because you bought the dvd doesnt mean you own its contents including the movie and ads - just as when you purchase software, you're not legally allowed to alter the software in any way for personal or other purposes unless the owner (that is typically the creator) allows you to do so within their license. Removing ads is especially a no-no as those ads were placed on the DVDs for reason, they come as a package with the movie, if you want to watch the movie you gotta put up with the ads too.
Originally posted by linx05
We have a right to backup our DVDs. We have a right to change whatever we want with them. I remove all the ads and crap from my backups.
quote:I believe you only have the right to watch the DVD on 'anything' in your house if it is reasonably assumed that the product will be able to be viewed straight out of the box on those devices, for example, I don't think you have the right to watch the contents of a DVD you purchased on your iPod or other portable device. Although I agree that if a DVD doesn't work on some DVD players but does on others then that is just lame.
Originally posted by linx05
We also have a right to watch the movie I bought on anything in my house.
By the way, I read somewhere that in Australia you're not even legally allowed to video tape television shows, although there are a number of exceptions including educational purposes and such (personal use isn't an exception)...
RE: Digg? by CookieRevised on 05-06-2007 at 01:34 PM
quote:true, but then again, buy a decent DVD player. Yes of course it would cost a bit more (although, that is probably not entirly true).
Originally posted by Volv
Although I agree that if a DVD doesn't work on some DVD players but does on others then that is just lame.
But if you buy a player, read the specs on what it can play. If you're not happy about it, bring it back and buy another one.
But all this is no reason to bitch on a copy protection or 'the big companies', IMHO.
quote:Not only in Australia, in many parts of the world. It has been a long long time that people pay for their cable distribution, etc. Part of that money is a general fee which exactly compensates the money lost by the companies who have the rights on the TV shows or whatever. You'll find this same fee in any other media too, like CDs, DVDs, etc... Even some percentage of the costs of blank media includes such fees.
Originally posted by Volv
By the way, I read somewhere that in Australia you're not even legally allowed to video tape television shows, although there are a number of exceptions including educational purposes and such (personal use isn't an exception)...
The fee is very minimal, but it is there. And it shows that it isn't that straightforward to think that stuff is free or that you have every right to copy stuff you own or see, you actually don't...
EDIT: I suppose I need to stress IANAL too...
IANAL = I Am Not A Lawyer
RE: Digg? by Verte on 05-06-2007 at 03:33 PM
IANAL. I really hate that anagram and that it needs to be said. If you're taking legal advice from some anonymous geek on the internets you've got a serious problem.
@linx05 - Sorry, the other guys are right, you don't get much in the way of rights for your purchase. The trouble with the information age is that we spend too much time trying to treat non-scarce items as scarce ones. On some level this needs to happen though, because the people that put their effort into creative [but trivially duplicatable and distributable] works deserve to be paid for their investment. However, it's never going to feel natural unless artistic works are paid for by the state, and communism is too scary a word for most people, so lets not go there.
I think that while media distributors shouldn't have to guarantee that their media will be playable on all your devices, it should sure be legal for you to do so. You've paid the money, so they should have no motivation for stopping you from enjoying your media however you like. [Once it leaves your possession, on the internet or otherwise, feel free to be sued.] DVD purchases don't come with much in the way of an implied license, so the companies are free to lump whatever they like on you. What I think is neat is hardly canon though, the purpose of governments seems to be to remove rights you should be able to take for granted.
In short, "I've paid my money, what more do they want?" ... they want the rest of your money. They are businesses in a capitalist country, and this is just how the world works. Don't like it? Don't sell your soul.
RE: Digg? by linx05 on 05-07-2007 at 06:49 AM
I'm sorry but did you guys actually read what I said? It seems like you didn't.
With DVDs (not HD DVDs) there are some protections which go against the DVD specs. Some which are so mangled players have a hard time trying to load them. So you're saying this is alright to have? When I go out and buy my DVD I expect it to work on every DVD player in my house. Whether it be on my computer or the player for my TV.
We are not talking about ripping HD DVDs and then selling copies off to friends. Because at the moment, that would cost a lot of money to do! We are talking about watching the product I bought with my own money how I want to. This includes setting up a headless computer for HTPC. That way I can load all my DVDs onto the computer and select which movies I'd like to watch etc without causing wear and tear on my originals. Some of them are quite hard to find. When I write scripts I back them up because I do not want to have to go through the pain of writing them again. It is mine, I would rather use a backup copy of my movies than have the original ruined.
And cookie, seriously if you bought a DVD player which says it plays DVDs don't you think you should get what you paid for? But the problem isn't with the players, it is with the way the DVD has been authored. Very, very out of spec. So why is that our fault? And don't give me the "oh well some people copy the DVD and sell it to others so we the honest paying customer has to suffer" speel. Yes, put copy protection on DVDs but make it in spec so that the honest paying customer can watch it on any DVD player they have in the house. For those interested, the discs with the crappy protection mostly come from Germany. Poor guys. They actually need to rip the DVD or use a on-the-fly-decrypter like AnyDVD to watch it on their computer/player.
quote:Maybe you didn't read my post properly. Protections like this are being used. There is no warning about "this disc will not play in your computer". The case even has the DVD logo on it which means it is, spec wise, in DVD format. It is, by definition, defective. There are many people who are interested in backing up their DVD. It's called FairUse. Australia has a similar law which was passed down a few years ago.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
If you don't do anything illegal, you also would have no reason to remove a copy protection in the first place.
There are some copy protections which are not that good, user-friendly-wise. But those are not used anymore. The issue, as I see it, is about the general state of mind "there is nothing wrong in copying and spreading stuff' and/or "it wont hurt anybody if I crack that program".
I also suggest you to read this thread Cookie. There was one that was more in depth but it was deleted because the powers that be took down RipIt4Me. Another copy-protection remover.
Yes, people should stop selling DVDs they do not own. But the companies should treat us with respect as it is us who are spending the money.
RE: Digg? by CookieRevised on 05-07-2007 at 08:37 AM
linx05, those DVDs _are_ in spec. And almost any DVD player can play them. The problem starts when you want to play them on your PC. And that is exactly the thing. Some DVDs (and CDs) are not meant to be played on a PC, because this is how the copies are made. You do not automatically have the right to play them on whatever you want, especially not on a PC, and that is probably what such a copy protection tries to prevent (it is more common with CDs).
But, the whole discussion and 'state of mind' that people have isn't about 1 rare copy protection which only is used in Germany. People have something against all copy protections, and I'm very sure that 99,99% of all people complaining don't even know about the details of copy protections or even don't know the different methods. People just complain because they think they have every right to do what they want with the DVD/CD, they complain about copy protections in general, heck on everything which prevents them to make copies of which they do not have a right to make them.
It is like that whole "Microsoft sucks" thing. The extremely vast majority of kiddies who say it don't even have a clue why they say it, they just do it because it is considered 'cool'. Does that mean Microsoft never ever did something wrong? No, of course not, they did some nasty things to, just like everybody else. The point is that all this yelling upon those companies is in almost all cases not grounded on anything at all and is just a thing from this time...
RE: Digg? by linx05 on 05-07-2007 at 11:30 AM
quote:I'm sorry but those DVDs are not in spec. Read up on it if you do not believe me. Maybe your head has grown too big for this forum? I don't know because you seemed to skim past my whole post and hit the reply button.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
linx05, those DVDs _are_ in spec. And almost any DVD player can play them. The problem starts when you want to play them on your PC. And that is exactly the thing. Some DVDs (and CDs) are not meant to be played on a PC, because this is how the copies are made. You do not automatically have the right to play them on whatever you want, especially not on a PC, and that is probably what such a copy protection tries to prevent (it is more common with CDs).
If I want to watch a DVD on my computer then I will do that. They can't control us and tell us that "no, computers are a no no". Why can't I play them on my computer? Why can't I watch them on my older DVD player? I bought it so I have the right to. And for you to say that we don't is just ludicrous. Their copy-protection system has gone too far if they prevent us from doing just that.
I'll quote someone from the Doom9 forums:
quote:Yes, if the DVD is out of specs it is defective. Shall I re-word that for you?
It's defective if a player which respects the DVD specs doesn't play it.
It is about time people started to stand up to these big companies. I know I am sick of seeing people have to return a DVD 3/4 times only to find out it is a new copy-protection. This isn't about cracking a program or releasing movies on to the Internet. This is about giving the customers what they deserve, fair use. More power to the people in this circumstance.
RE: Digg? by John Anderton on 05-07-2007 at 11:41 AM
quote:That's why I spend time on irc where we have natural feed readers
Originally posted by WDZ
Digg always ends up annoying me whenever I spend more than a few minutes there... (Smilie)
They parse stories and paste links to the good ones
RE: Digg? by Underlord on 05-07-2007 at 11:43 AM
quote:i don't think that speaking up AS THE CONSUMER OF THE PRODUCT makes one immature.
Originally posted by ipab
Now because of that, people have absolutely gone nuts and digg has basically shit itself and the first 2 pages are filled with this key. It's by far the most immature / ridiculous thing I have witnessed ever since I have started using the internet.
quote:Hardly the point. Most of the people buying DVDs aren't copying them.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
If you want to do something against copy protections STOP COPYING STUFF IN THE FIRST PLACE.
quote:Time shifting is perfectly legal now.
Originally posted by Volv
By the way, I read somewhere that in Australia you're not even legally allowed to video tape television shows, although there are a number of exceptions including educational purposes and such (personal use isn't an exception)...
RE: RE: Digg? by Verte on 05-07-2007 at 05:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
But, the whole discussion and 'state of mind' that people have isn't about 1 rare copy protection which only is used in Germany. People have something against all copy protections, and I'm very sure that 99,99% of all people complaining don't even know about the details of copy protections or even don't know the different methods. People just complain because they think they have every right to do what they want with the DVD/CD, they complain about copy protections in general, heck on everything which prevents them to make copies of which they do not have a right to make them.
I'm pretty sure some copying is considered fair use, or at least it was, and in that sense can't be illegal. However, in order to invoke fair use, you now need to bypass copy protections, which is illegal. So clearly, the US government has enacted a law to to assure you a right, and then taken it away. Copy protection doesn't solve the problem of piracy in any way, in fact, it will never work. It is simply a violation of a right, presumably, as a toe-in-the-water for further violations. The Right Thing to do would be to simply sue people who violate copyright, but lets face it, considering the MAFIAA's continuous failure to gather any real evidence, I guess lobbying for copyright reform was the easier and cheaper way to go.
You're right on the money [lol] where you mention the rights that people think they get. On a regular DVD box, the DVD logo implies that the media should be viewable on something that conforms to the DVD Video standards. With the next generation optical media disks, weather it works is not just dependent on a standard, but upon licensing. The people who made your HD-DVD player [or maybe, you] need to keep the licensing fees up in order to keep your device keys active. It's a whole new level of extortion. They can't assure you that in purchasing the media and a device, you can view the resulting content, because they can terminate the license and mark your key at any time.
What is most alarming is that there is no independent regulatory body. Well, the AACS are the single body administering everything, but they represent a corporate conglomerate, which is to say, they have a CLEAR conflict of interest. That this did not create problems for Phillips [? CD] is probably a moot point, since Phillips don't have a record [lol, the bad puns just keep rolling].
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
It is like that whole "Microsoft sucks" thing. The extremely vast majority of kiddies who say it don't even have a clue why they say it, they just do it because it is considered 'cool'.
...
The point is that all this yelling upon those companies is in almost all cases not grounded on anything at all and is just a thing from this time...
The vast majority of people who point fingers at Microsoft have no idea what they are talking about, but that does not imply that what they are saying is wrong. This is definitely the misinformation age, and it's harder than ever to fight your way through the drivel of people with their own interests, <OS of choice> zealots and their 1337-points interest included. Unless you're willing to look deeper into allegations and not simply stop when one thing doesn't fit, you're taking the route of apathetic ignorance, and that's not something we should be encouraging.
RE: RE: RE: Digg? by CookieRevised on 05-07-2007 at 08:05 PM
quote:Yes, but unlike many people seem to believe, a PC is not considered a DVD/CD player. A PC is listed under the equipment to copy stuff, hence when it comes down to playing your DVD/CD on a PC that your rights are seriously less than compared to playing it on a standalone player.
Originally posted by Verte
You're right on the money [lol] where you mention the rights that people think they get. On a regular DVD box, the DVD logo implies that the media should be viewable on something that conforms to the DVD Video standards.
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In our family we have like over 200 DVDs (keeping the CDs aside), comming from all over the world, with all different kinds of copy protections, regions, etc. None have any problems playing on our basic simple DVD player (region free player though*). Some do have problems on a PC since they are not meant to be played on a PC, it is as simple as that. You can complain that they can't be played on the PC, but you would have not much ground on it to back it up as that is simply not in the license... and thus illegal.
*which costed more, because regions are again something to do with licensing, distribution and all that other mambojumbo. You pay more because there are more compensation fees (or whatever it is called) - see one of my previous posts.
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linx05, that flame you made there is seriously uncalled for I think.
I also don't skim over your post and just hit the reply button. You are talking about a specific copy protection and about playing (read: copying) DVDs via the PC. In regards to the PC see the first paragraph of this post. In regards to the rest, my point is that almost all the people complaining are exactly those who want to make illegal copies.
And the majority of people buying DVDs have also no problems at all playing them. The 'problems' which people yell about (note: coincidence or not, almost all people who are young and are on the net) are their own problem that they can't copy something.
Of course you have the right to complain when it is justified. But in this case, not much is justified, no matter if I, you, or anybody like it or not.
RE: Digg? by Dr4g0n on 05-07-2007 at 08:16 PM
When you buy a DVD, you are buying a license to view copyrighted material and a medium to allow you to do so. You do not buy the film itself, only a license to view it. (Hence why public showings of the film are not allowed using your DVD, they're not covered by your license.)
Therefore when you buy a DVD, you in effect enter into a license agreement. The agreement only covers the use of DVD players, not DVD drives in computers; and so a consumer does not have the right to complain about not being able to view it.
Note: This post does not mean I agree with the way DVDs are "sold", I just want to point out the situation.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Digg? by linx05 on 05-09-2007 at 02:33 PM
quote:It's like trying to put a triangular piece into a circular hole with you. It just won't get through. It doesn't matter if I am right anymore. I've finally met someone more stubborn than me. My opinions of you are my opinions
Originally posted by CookieRevised
linx05, that flame you made there is seriously uncalled for I think.
I also don't skim over your post and just hit the reply button. You are talking about a specific copy protection and about playing (read: copying) DVDs via the PC.
...
Of course you have the right to complain when it is justified. But in this case, not much is justified, no matter if I, you, or anybody like it or not.
. I'm sure there are a few more on the forum which share that.
RE: Digg? by Underlord on 05-09-2007 at 11:44 PM
quote:I have never seen any EULA bundled with a DVD that I have purchased. I never actually agreed to anything and I'm pretty sure there's software to play DVDs on computers for a reason.
Originally posted by Dr4g0n
Therefore when you buy a DVD, you in effect enter into a license agreement. The agreement only covers the use of DVD players, not DVD drives in computers; and so a consumer does not have the right to complain about not being able to view it.
RE: Digg? by ShawnZ on 05-10-2007 at 12:52 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Underlord
quote:I have never seen any EULA bundled with a DVD that I have purchased. I never actually agreed to anything and I'm pretty sure there's software to play DVDs on computers for a reason.
Originally posted by Dr4g0n
Therefore when you buy a DVD, you in effect enter into a license agreement. The agreement only covers the use of DVD players, not DVD drives in computers; and so a consumer does not have the right to complain about not being able to view it.
there doesn't need to be an EULA for them to control how you use the medium. i believe an EULA is only useful to tell people when they can be sued.