WLM Test Tool - Printable Version
-Shoutbox (https://shoutbox.menthix.net)
+-- Forum: MsgHelp Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=58)
+--- Forum: Messenger Plus! for Live Messenger (/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+---- Forum: Skinning (/forumdisplay.php?fid=41)
+----- Thread: WLM Test Tool (/showthread.php?tid=79855)
WLM Test Tool by Aardvark on 12-10-2007 at 01:42 AM
Since sometimes you will require signing in in order to check whether a part of your skin works or not, this is of course very difficult to do if you don't have an internet connection. So what if some sort of tool was made that allows you to "sign in" to a fake msn, and you would be able to look at all the elements of a contact list, various windows, conversations, etc - I would think that would be a very useful tool for skin developers if it were made.
RE: WLM Test Tool by aNILEator on 12-10-2007 at 01:57 AM
Useful but hard, Something in my head is screaming Office Live Communicator but i don't know why at all
RE: WLM Test Tool by stuartbennett on 12-11-2007 at 03:47 PM
this could be a good tool especially if it could simulate multiple versions of messenger that way you wouldnt have to uninstall one messenger and install another just to test your skins.
RE: WLM Test Tool by Oxy on 12-11-2007 at 04:00 PM
Good idea. Would also save signing in and out multiple times. 
RE: WLM Test Tool by aNILEator on 12-11-2007 at 05:26 PM
Just get a separate account for testing only, or use an old one etc and sign in as offline, you can add your normal email and use that to test pop ups and convo windows with etc
RE: WLM Test Tool by stuartbennett on 12-11-2007 at 05:33 PM
question: theres no way to have more than one version of messenger installed on a single pc so how do you test across multiple versions without having to constantly install and uninstall various versions of messenger?
RE: WLM Test Tool by Oxy on 12-11-2007 at 05:37 PM
quote:Question: do you not use plus or just too naive to look in the preferrences?
Originally posted by stuartbennett
question: theres no way to have more than one version of messenger installed on a single pc so how do you test across multiple versions without having to constantly install and uninstall various versions of messenger?
Oh ok, my bad, misunderstood.
RE: WLM Test Tool by duck! on 12-11-2007 at 05:47 PM
quote:ya, that feature opens up the same version of messenger, not a different version =/
Originally posted by Oxy
quote:Question: do you not use plus or just too naive to look in the preferrences?
Originally posted by stuartbennett
question: theres no way to have more than one version of messenger installed on a single pc so how do you test across multiple versions without having to constantly install and uninstall various versions of messenger?
RE: WLM Test Tool by stuartbennett on 12-11-2007 at 05:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Oxy
quote:Question: do you not use plus or just too naive to look in the preferrences?
Originally posted by stuartbennett
question: theres no way to have more than one version of messenger installed on a single pc so how do you test across multiple versions without having to constantly install and uninstall various versions of messenger?
the options in plus's preferences enable me to use multiple instances of messenger so i can sign in with say 2 or 3 different accounts at the same time but if im doing that all on one pc each instance will still only be the messenger 8.5 i cannot have 8.0, 8.1 and 8.5 all installed on the same pc and run all 3 versions simultaniously atleast as far as i know, i have just downloaded installed for 8.0 and 8.1 so if you can tell me how to have all 3 versions of messenger installed on a single pc and run them all side by side i would be more than happy to test the skin im developing on all those 3 versions.
RE: WLM Test Tool by CookieRevised on 12-11-2007 at 05:56 PM
Idea may be nice but it is also as good as totally impossible.
Especially if you want something which simulates multiple versions without installing/uninstalling Messenger.
You actually would end up recreating each and every Messenger from scratch. Everything would exactly be the same, except for the connection part.
Thus all this is not possible.
A more "easier" (read: very relative easy, aka: still extremely hard) way is to create a program which simulates the protocol/internet traffic. A proxy so to speak, but which runs locally on your computer as the backbone server to witch the existing messenger programs can connect.
Such a local protocol/switchboard server would be usefull for testing certain parts of Plus! too (and translating for example), etc. Although it would never be able to replace the real thing of course.
-----
Anyways, to be realistic, such a tool will never be made. Or will never be practical to use. The best thing you can do is as you've always done: connecting to the real thing and testing everything on the real thing.
RE: RE: WLM Test Tool by vikke on 12-11-2007 at 06:03 PM
quote:You could use the internal Messenger librarys such as MSNCORE and UXCORE to recreate the window without running the Messenger process.
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Idea may be nice but it is also as good as totally impossible.
Especially if you want something which simulates multiple versions without installing/uninstalling Messenger.
You actually would end up recreating each and every Messenger from scratch. Everything would exactly be the same, except for the connection part.
Thus all this is not possible.
A more "easier" (read: very relative easy, aka: still extremely hard) way is to create a program which simulates the protocol/internet traffic. A proxy so to speak, but which runs locally on your computer as the backbone server to witch the existing messenger programs can connect.
Such a local protocol/switchboard server would be usefull for testing certain parts of Plus! too (and translating for example), etc. Although it would never be able to replace the real thing of course.
-----
Anyways, to be realistic, such a tool will never be made. Or will never be practical to use. The best thing you can do is as you've always done: connecting to the real thing and testing everything on the real thing.
RE: WLM Test Tool by stuartbennett on 12-11-2007 at 06:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Idea may be nice but it is also as good as totally impossible.
Especially if you want something which simulates multiple versions without installing/uninstalling Messenger.
You actually would end up recreating each and every Messenger from scratch. Everything would exactly be the same, except for the connection part.
Thus all this is not possible.
A more "easier" (read: very relative easy, aka: still extremely hard) way is to create a program which simulates the protocol/internet traffic. A proxy so to speak, but which runs locally on your computer as the backbone server to witch the existing messenger programs can connect.
Such a local protocol/switchboard server would be usefull for testing certain parts of Plus! too (and translating for example), etc. Although it would never be able to replace the real thing of course.
-----
Anyways, to be realistic, such a tool will never be made. Or will never be practical to use. The best thing you can do is as you've always done: connecting to the real thing and testing everything on the real thing.
im happy to test on the real thing, all i was saying is both my pc and my dads pc only have 8.5 installed i dont want all the hassle of uninstalling and installing different versions of messenger everytime i make a skin just to test it works on that version, nor do i want to by 2 pcs for testing purposes and keep having to buy a new pc every time a version of mesenger is released.
which is why unless it becomes possible to install multiple versions of the messenger software onto a single pc for testing purposes any skins i devolpe will only be compatable with whatever version of messenger i have installed at the time which at present is 8.5.
if anyone knows a way to have multiple versions of messenger installed on the same pc and run all 3 versions simultaniously then id love to hear about it.
RE: WLM Test Tool by CookieRevised on 12-11-2007 at 06:54 PM
quote:many people would love you if you would do that...
Originally posted by vikke
You could use the internal Messenger librarys such as MSNCORE and UXCORE to recreate the window without running the Messenger process.
But still, you would need to include some stuff like contacts, side tab content, and all kinds of content, etc in order to see everything as it would be in the real thing. Doing this all would mean you would almost end up with a total recreation. Not wordth the effort I think, when you could simply use the real thing.
I'm not able to make anything like this, nor would I know exactly how, but I do believe making a "protocol simulator/proxy kind of thing" is more easier and more generic. (and I know some people have already done something like this in a very very basic form)...
You can compare it with those proxies which intercept and send their own stuff via the protocol. As it is "just" that which makes people unable to test their skins: the connection.
Well I dunno. But I would be more in favor for such a proxy since you would be able to use that also, in a limited way, to test certain parts of Plus! (and other addons), to translate quicker, etc, etc.
[OFF TOPIC]
quote:Installing multiple versions has been done since years, by many people. And explained in many posts...
Originally posted by stuartbennett
which is why unless it becomes possible to install multiple versions of the messenger software onto a single pc for testing purposes any skins i devolpe will only be compatable with whatever version of messenger i have installed at the time which at present is 8.5.
if anyone knows a way to have multiple versions of messenger installed on the same pc and run all 3 versions simultaniously then id love to hear about it.
- Simply uninstall the version you currently have first.
- Then start installing the lowest version you want.
- When that is done, copy the entire folder (including its subfolders) to something like "\MSN Messenger 7.0.123"
- Then install the next version (eg: MSN Messenger 7.5)
- And again copy the folder...
- etc
Do this until you have installed all versions.
You can now run whatever version you like by running the msnmsgr.exe program from inside the version folder you want....
(PS: be carefull with WLM9, in case you are a beta tester, it is beta and the installer is not quite what it must be. And new libraries may corrupt the older versions. Some people have reported the above method doesn't work for WLM9, so...)
eg: I've currently got version 6.2 to 8.5 installed, including almost all different builds (of course the majority doesn't work anymore as you're not allowed to connect with them anymore... note to myself: start cleaning your HDD)
[/OFF TOPIC]
RE: WLM Test Tool by stuartbennett on 12-11-2007 at 07:16 PM
thanks cookie, im sorry for going off topic, ill get on to doing that asap.
RE: WLM Test Tool by aNILEator on 12-11-2007 at 07:36 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Well I dunno. But I would be more in favor for such a proxy since you would be able to use that also, in a limited way, to test certain parts of Plus! (and other addons), to translate quicker, etc, etc.
Thinking of piracy here
pirates made a way to have Business Vista activate itself against a fake server in a Virtual Machine, could 'that sort of thing' be done for this?
RE: WLM Test Tool by smooth-criminal on 12-11-2007 at 10:31 PM
Is there not a way, to have some sort of application that emulates wlm and can import the changes you have made from the skin? perhaps this is a big project but surely it can be done with a success?
RE: WLM Test Tool by CookieRevised on 12-12-2007 at 12:36 AM
quote:Yes, that is almost exactly what I was thinking about.
Originally posted by aNILEator
quote:Thinking of piracy here
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Well I dunno. But I would be more in favor for such a proxy since you would be able to use that also, in a limited way, to test certain parts of Plus! (and other addons), to translate quicker, etc, etc.
quote:that is exactly what this thread is about and being discussed
Originally posted by smooth-criminal
Is there not a way, to have some sort of application that emulates wlm and can import the changes you have made from the skin? perhaps this is a big project but surely it can be done with a success?
RE: WLM Test Tool by Keikonium on 12-12-2007 at 05:28 AM
What would also be nice is a WLM preview with tooltips telling you what section of messenger is where. What I mean is this:
Have an interactive contact list where you hover over the display picture and it tells you the ID to look for to modify that element. Then hover over the wordwheel, and it tells you the ID to look for, etc. etc. It would be easier than searching through text documents for the elements you need.
Maybe even have a special "skin maker" kind of like the chat log viewer. On the left hand side, text documents would load when you hover over certain sections of messenger on the right. They would scroll down to the section of text that needs to be edited to change whatever you're hovering over.
I can't explain it to well with words, but hopefully you get the gist of it. This would all be offline as it wouldn't need to connect to messenger at all. There could even be a test messenger button that would skin a "fake" messenger image with the changes you have made.
I don't know if this is possible tho 
.
RE: WLM Test Tool by Aardvark on 12-12-2007 at 06:05 AM
That's almost the same of another idea I had. I was thinking of some sort of program which would display a picture of WLM and it's separate windows, and when you hovered over something it would give you the ID, and then it would be possible to double click on that element and the folder containing the file/element, or the file/element itself would open up to allow editing.
RE: RE: WLM Test Tool by Keikonium on 12-12-2007 at 06:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Aardvark
That's almost the same of another idea I had. I was thinking of some sort of program which would display a picture of WLM and it's separate windows, and when you hovered over something it would give you the ID, and then it would be possible to double click on that element and the folder containing the file/element, or the file/element itself would open up to allow editing.
Exactly. Kind of like the "live preview" presented in A-Patch showing the customizations as you enable/disable the options. It would make skinning a lot faster/easier if a skin editor like this was constructed.
I don't know if anyone has ever used the program by Stardock called "Skinstudio" that is used to make windowblind skins, but I was thinking that something like that (altho a LOT simpler) would be a nice idea. You click the element in a preview picture, and then the possible modifications would pop up that you could edit. For example:
You click the dashboard background in a preview image. Options pop up to change the image itself, the dimensions, foreground, background, transparancy, etc etc. Then there is still always the way we skin now (editing the text files) for more advanced options and such.
RE: WLM Test Tool by stuartbennett on 12-12-2007 at 08:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Keikonium
quote:
Originally posted by Aardvark
That's almost the same of another idea I had. I was thinking of some sort of program which would display a picture of WLM and it's separate windows, and when you hovered over something it would give you the ID, and then it would be possible to double click on that element and the folder containing the file/element, or the file/element itself would open up to allow editing.
Exactly. Kind of like the "live preview" presented in A-Patch showing the customizations as you enable/disable the options. It would make skinning a lot faster/easier if a skin editor like this was constructed.
I don't know if anyone has ever used the program by Stardock called "Skinstudio" that is used to make windowblind skins, but I was thinking that something like that (altho a LOT simpler) would be a nice idea. You click the element in a preview picture, and then the possible modifications would pop up that you could edit. For example:
You click the dashboard background in a preview image. Options pop up to change the image itself, the dimensions, foreground, background, transparancy, etc etc. Then there is still always the way we skin now (editing the text files) for more advanced options and such.
well then what your essentially asking for is you have a virtual display of the messenger interface you click on say the dashboard and up pops an options window in there you can tiock boxes for the buttons you want displayed on the dashboard unticking the ones you dont and then say theres a picker option for background and text for that element, etc, there would be fields there to type in the path of a customer image for the dashboard background or even for custom button images and each path field could have a browse button etc and youd basically have this same kinda options screen for every element of every window in WLM thats what it sounds like your after right?
personally i dont know how someone would go about doing a project like that but i bet its not easy and that it will be very time consuming for whoever dared take it on.
RE: WLM Test Tool by CookieRevised on 12-12-2007 at 09:26 AM
quote:this can be made as a skin itself
Originally posted by Keikonium
Have an interactive contact list where you hover over the display picture and it tells you the ID to look for to modify that element. Then hover over the wordwheel, and it tells you the ID to look for, etc. etc. It would be easier than searching through text documents for the elements you need.
(just the tooltips I mean)
RE: WLM Test Tool by Mike on 12-12-2007 at 09:29 AM
quote:Indeed, but it would be nice if it was done by Plus! so that it would be compatible with future version too...
Originally posted by CookieRevised
this can be made as a skin itself (Smilie)
RE: WLM Test Tool by TheSteve on 12-12-2007 at 03:08 PM
How does a tool that allows you to select an element with a drag and drop target sound? (Similar to the Spy++ Window finder)
RE: RE: WLM Test Tool by vikke on 12-12-2007 at 03:27 PM
quote:Haven't you already done something like this? However the drag and drop sounds pretty cool.
Originally posted by TheSteve
How does a tool that allows you to select an element with a drag and drop target sound? (Similar to the Spy++ Window finder)
RE: RE: RE: WLM Test Tool by TheSteve on 12-12-2007 at 03:45 PM
quote:There is an element viewer here:
Originally posted by vikke
Haven't you already done something like this?
http://memskin.fanatic.net.nz/?page_id=6 (MSNCoreFun is the name)
It doesn't support drag and drop yet, and I don't recall if the uploaded version supports WLM 9.0 correctly. If I find the time and people think the feature is useful enough, I'll put a nice drag/drop selector/highlighter in.
On a separate matter, the Element documentation linked from the same page may prove to be useful in creating skins. Be aware that it requires Internet Explorer to work correctly
RE: WLM Test Tool by Volv on 12-12-2007 at 04:15 PM
quote:Very nice program but it would definitely be excellent if it was converted into a Spy++ style drag/drop program (preferrably which placed a border around the selected element for clarity).
Originally posted by TheSteve
There is an element viewer here:
http://memskin.fanatic.net.nz/?page_id=6 (MSNCoreFun is the name)
If you really wanted to go the whole way you could do something where you select the element (using drag/drop), change the property in a Visual Studio-type property manager then select the UIFILE and have it export changes, but I think that may be a bit over the top
RE: WLM Test Tool by Basilis on 01-03-2008 at 04:30 PM
I think it would be a very useful tool.it is tiring to sign in and out every single moment just to test the details!I wish someone could create a tool like that!