MP!L at Wikipedia - Printable Version
-Shoutbox (https://shoutbox.menthix.net)
+-- Forum: MsgHelp Archive (/forumdisplay.php?fid=58)
+--- Forum: Messenger Plus! for Live Messenger (/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+---- Forum: WLM Plus! General (/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+----- Thread: MP!L at Wikipedia (/showthread.php?tid=80386)
MP!L at Wikipedia by warmth on 12-24-2007 at 05:44 PM
Well guys... I was looking info about MP!L at Wikipedia... and I think that is very incomplete...
I think we should do a team to be in charge of that... and update it... with some screenshots (MP!L itself and its features) and examples (talking about scripts and skins)...
We are a huge community... and we are always talking about this... I think a is good way to help and start the 2008 
!!!
What do you guys think??? Do you wanna help??? (Remember that we can actually make a very good one and then translate it 
)
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by CookieRevised on 12-24-2007 at 06:02 PM
Although some chapters can indeed be updated a bit or more detailed information can be given, note that Wikipedia is not an advertising site and should be as neutral/objective as possible. I say this because a complete lists of features, screenshots, etc is more seen as advertising than telling what Messenger Plus! (Live) is.
Aka: Wikipedia is not for listing the features of Plus!, but to explain what Plus! actually is, maybe how it works (briefly), and some technical aspects (like "it was written in x") or information not found anywhere else.
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by vaccination on 12-24-2007 at 06:03 PM
I think this was talked about before 
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by freak544 on 12-24-2007 at 06:17 PM
I think certain things need to be changed
Isn't this freeware??
Wiki says: License Free with Optional Sponsor (Adware)
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by albert on 12-24-2007 at 06:20 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
I say this because a complete lists of features, screenshots, etc is more seen as advertising than telling what Messenger Plus! (Live) is
Strongly agreing. It already looks like advertising tbqh.
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
Aka: Wikipedia is not for listing the features of Plus!, but to explain what Plus! actually is, maybe how it works (briefly), and some technical aspects (like "it was written in x") or information not found anywhere else.
Once again, you got my vote cookie!
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by ShawnZ on 12-24-2007 at 06:43 PM
we're not allowed to edit wikipedia. it would violate the NPOV.
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by ahmetgns on 12-24-2007 at 09:21 PM
I edited some wrong parts you'll see below. I didn't know we can edit Wikipedia personally 
quote:Added: "or upon pressing a user-defined hotkey
with Messenger only being unlocked upon double-clicking of said icon.
quote:This sentence has been removed because it is not like that anymore, am I correct?
It should be noted, however, that pop-up boxes such as notifying the user that their address has been added by another are not hidden by this feature.
Catalan language is not included in 4.50, I have removed it from languages list.
quote:There are some compatibility problems like signing out Windows Messenger may sign user out from WLM as well. I have mentioned them.
the last version of Messenger Plus! (Version 3.63) will still be available for download and is able to run along side the WLM version without any compatibility problems.
In External Links section, www.mpskins.net has been included.
quote:*...when users attempt to uninstall the sponsor program of Messenger Plus!.
A separate adware uninstallation program is provided by Circle Development which appears when users attempt to uninstall Messenger Plus!.[
By the way, I think it is very detailed, even some features mentioned in Wikipedia are not documented in official Features page of website.
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by Discrate on 12-24-2007 at 09:50 PM
I use to update the wiki alot I made the patchou section then people edited it
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by Chestah on 12-24-2007 at 10:43 PM
Ok i modified the first few paragraphs... other than knowing its a messenger add-on anyone that didn't already know what MP!L is would have no idea from that article . Hopefully now it makes a little more sense
Also: When was the first version of Messenger Plus! Live released? It mentions when Messenger Plus! was released etc but it doesn't mention when the Live! version line was released.
Also2: Whoever wrote the skinning piece in... woah... please write in english next time :
"Skin is general refer to the graphical appearance of a program. This new skinning feature is added in version 4.50 of Messenger Live Plus!. It allows user to change the traditional appearance of WLM by downloading skin from the MPL official website or make their personal skin with XML script."
RE: RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by WDZ on 12-24-2007 at 11:02 PM
quote:http://shoutbox.menthix.net/history.php?group=4.00#400234
Originally posted by Chestah
Also: When was the first version of Messenger Plus! Live released?
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by Mike on 12-24-2007 at 11:28 PM
Should we remove this image? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Messengerlock.png
It's useless imo... 
Also, should we put the Advert Template in the article?
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by Menthix on 12-24-2007 at 11:34 PM
quote:Yes.
Originally posted by Mike
Should we remove this image? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Messengerlock.png
quote:No, somebody should just rewrite it so it doesn't feel like an advert. The features list is way too long, just a brief mention of some of the most important features would be enough. The list of languages isn't very useful either, just a mention of it being multi-language will do (and won't need a fix everytime a language is added/removed).
Originally posted by Mike
should we put the Advert Template in the article?
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by CookieRevised on 12-25-2007 at 01:09 AM
Stuff added/changed in the Wiki should be considered extremely carefully...
eg:
quote:This should be removed or said otherwise. At it is now, this is not objective at all!
Messenger Plus! Live builds upon the functionality of Microsoft's Windows Live Messenger adding and improving key functionality and enhancing the messenger experience.
"improving" => This is can be seen as objective. Some people will not find much "improvement" or might even find some things annoying...
"adding key functionality" => what you call 'key' functionality isn't what somebody else calls 'key' functionality. "key" should be removed.
"enhancing the messenger experience" => sales pitch... This is highly subjective information and should not be there.
All who edit those pages: Unless you are extremely well informed at what is accepted on wikipedia and what not, unless you write good English, unless you have experience in adding/editing stuff on Wikipedia, And unless you know what you're talking about, don't start changing or adding stuff.
quote:We are allowed to edit it. Even Patchou is allowed to edit it. It would make little sense if people who have first hand information wouldn't be allowed to add information, as long as it are facts.
Originally posted by ShawnZ
we're not allowed to edit wikipedia. it would violate the NPOV.
However, it should be unbiased information (eg: programming language, version info, etc). But that goes actually for anyone who edits wiki articles.
------------------------------
PS: I've updated several things on the page...
However, the majority of the article is still not good. At the moment there is a very heavy side towards how "bad" Plus! is (3 sections talking about it), without any contra-evidence.
Moreover, the cited links and some references used to back up the current "anti-Plus!" facts are in themselfs extremely biased and thus shouldn't be used. Even more, they are used in the wrong sections and added to the wrong sentences.
It is a serious work in progress...
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by warmth on 12-25-2007 at 02:16 AM
I am going to do some good screenshots about skinning and scripting... but I don't really know how to post it there... when I get them ready I will post it here and somebody that knows please add them there ...
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by Mike on 12-25-2007 at 07:07 AM
The article falls into the wrong category. It's currently in the "Windows instant messaging clients" category, but MP!L is not an IM client.
However, I don't know if a more suitable category exists.
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by CookieRevised on 12-25-2007 at 08:38 AM
Correct,
Better categories are:
Windows software
Windows-only software
Windows-only freeware
Freeware
fixed
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by Chestah on 12-25-2007 at 11:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
However, the majority of the article is still not good. At the moment there is a very heavy side towards how "bad" Plus! is (3 sections talking about it), without any contra-evidence.
Agreed.
I also agree about your biased/subjective view on my edits to the first paragraph... but seriously cookie do you think this is better?
"Messenger Plus! Live builds upon the functionality of Microsoft's Windows Live Messenger adding more functionality."
My sentence was better
Edit: I'm going over it now and in general improving the syntax and use of words.
RE: RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by CookieRevised on 12-25-2007 at 03:18 PM
quote:Maybe not "better", but it is far more neutral.
Originally posted by Chestah
I also agree about your biased/subjective view on my edits to the first paragraph... but seriously cookie do you think this is better?
"Messenger Plus! Live builds upon the functionality of Microsoft's Windows Live Messenger adding more functionality."
My sentence was better
quote:cool...
Originally posted by Chestah
Edit: I'm going over it now and in general improving the syntax and use of words.
Although I have my doubts about:
quote:Simplyfying that (difficult) sentence a bit makes:
As of the 17th of August 2005, the Messenger Plus! website contained a petition to Microsoft's anti-spyware division regarding Windows Defender's (known as Microsoft AntiSpyware at the time) detection of the Messenger Plus! executable as spyware and subsequent warning that Messenger Plus! would attempt to install spyware at runtime (post-installation), rather than the setup program itself that contained the installer for the threat detected.
"As of the 2005-08-07, the Plus! website contained a petition to Microsoft's anti-spyware division regarding Windows Defender's detection of the Plus! executable as spyware, rather than the setup program itself that contained the installer for the threat detected."
The underlined part seems wrong. I'm not saying it is wrong grammar, just that it seems wrong. Especially "for the threat detected".
Can this be reworded?
PS: I already removed "Live" in that paragraph. At that time it was still MP!, not MP!L.
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by Chestah on 12-25-2007 at 09:43 PM
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
PS: I already removed "Live" in that paragraph. At that time it was still MP!, not MP!L.
Ah thanks Cookie
.quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
The underlined part seems wrong. I'm not saying it is wrong grammar, just that it seems wrong. Especially "for the threat detected".
Yeah i know what you mean, i spent awhile trying to think of something better to write there... but i guess all my positive christmas energy was gone by that time! I'm busy today but if no ones fixed it by the time i get back i'll see what i can do. I was going to say "spyware" but thats from the prospective of windows defender. I was also going to say "optional adware" but thats from the prospective of MP!L. I was looking for something neutral.
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised
"Messenger Plus! Live builds upon the functionality of Microsoft's Windows Live Messenger adding more functionality."
When i say better, i mean it makes more sense. Read the sentence closely and you'll see why. That sentence basically says this:
"MP!L builds functionality by adding more functionality" - its circulatory and basically says the same thing twice.
Maybe something like this would be better:
"Messenger Plus! Live integrates into Windows Live Messenger's graphical user interface providing users with additional functionality."
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by Chris4 on 12-25-2007 at 09:52 PM
This screenshot needs updating:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Messengerplusname.png
1. It's not updated to show the Scripts icon.
2. "Messenger Plus! Live plugin" is incorrect
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by ShawnZ on 12-25-2007 at 10:58 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Chris4
2. "Messenger Plus! Live plugin" is incorrect
yes it is, and that's only the description -- you can edit descriptions.
RE: RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by CookieRevised on 12-26-2007 at 09:38 AM
quote:indeed...
Originally posted by Chestah
Maybe something like this would be better:
"Messenger Plus! Live integrates into Windows Live Messenger's graphical user interface providing users with additional functionality."
btw:
quote:unsourced? what do you mean by that? How can you 'proof' that something is written in a certain language? Do you need a screenshot of a PE analyzer? This seems very far-fetched and taking the whole 'source your fact' a bit too far and out of context.
removed unsourced programming language (irrelevant anyway for closed-source software)
Second, it is not irrelevant at all. Proof of that is, for example, that this question is asked on these forums. Closed source software can be programmed in a variarity of languages.
Please add this relevant information back.
It is this kind of extra background information which could/would lead to a comprehensive wiki article.
quote:The languages aren't part of the features. It can have its own catagory (also the reason why it has its own entry in the infobox for software template).
(Multilingual - rename to Languages and indent to previous section - although I'm not sure if it's notable enough to list every language)
The list of the available languages can be there. I don't see why not. It is again extra information (although it needs to be updated each time a new language is added or removed. Although that does not happen a lot).
The whole idea of "it's not noteable enough" for each piece of information is quite often overused. The point of Wiki is to provide information about something. If you remove (or not list) such information then why do you have a wiki article of Plus! in the first place? In that case you could simply state that Plus! is an addon for WLM and be done with it. To say it differently, if a list of available languages is not noteable enough, then so is 90% of the rest of the article.
--------
Although I can understand why you removed most of the external links, the WP:EL also states that if the links are relevant they can be included. Those links were relevant (as they were the only official websites related to Plus!). It is not because such a site doesn't provide direct information about the product that it can't be listed.
WP:EL is more to provide a guideline to make sure that the external links section doesn't become a massive list of (advertising) sites. But since the links which were provided were only official links, they were relevant. Again proof of this is that some people download stuff from unofficial links and get into trouble. That on its own makes that such a list of official sites is already very relevant information.
Anyways, even if you are very strict in it, the following links provide direct relevant information. Even relevant in the strict sence, and thus should be there:
* http://shoutbox.menthix.net/history.php - Messenger Plus! version history timeline
* http://shoutbox.menthix.net/ - Messenger Plus! Live main forums
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by kezz on 12-26-2007 at 10:29 AM
Would it benefit to add something about how/why these features make MP!L a valued add-on to WLM? Ease of use, customisation etc.
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by CookieRevised on 12-26-2007 at 11:07 AM
quote:Highly depends on how you describe it. It would actually be very difficult I think, since stuff like "ease of use" is very biased. And without stuff like "ease of use" you can't properly describe how/why these functions make MP!L a valued addon.
Originally posted by Kezzinator29
Would it benefit to add something about how/why these features make MP!L a valued add-on to WLM? Ease of use, customisation etc.
Even "a valued addon" is biased. Unless you can proof somehow (scientific report/poll among millions of WLM users?) that the majority of people do find it usefull.
So in the end, to answer your question, I don't think so...
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by ahmetgns on 12-26-2007 at 11:40 AM
What about removing the Renaming section? Is it that much important there? It already states the renaming in the first paragraph
quote:You can add one explanation about the old version is still avaliable to somewhere but I think you must remove Renaming section.
and changed its name to "Messenger Plus! Live" when it was rewritten for the new release of Windows Live Messenger, which superceded both past clients.
Also, if external links are included again it will be good, I agree with CookieRevised.
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by warmth on 12-26-2007 at 11:46 AM
I don't know why titles are lighters than subtitles... maybe this should be changed too... (or is like that by default??? 
)
RE: MP!L at Wikipedia by CookieRevised on 12-26-2007 at 11:47 AM
quote:No...
Originally posted by ahmetgns
What about removing the Renaming section?
There is a big difference between MP! and MP!L and this distinction must be made. The MP!L page on wikipedia is a merging from the ol MP! page and a MP!L stub page. This makes that both programs (branches) needs to be explained in a clear manner.
Remember that this wiki page is a work in progress. Instead of removing stuff you better add stuff. eg: compatibility between the two. History of how MP! became MP!L.