Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language - Printable Version
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Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by possetti on 04-09-2011 at 11:26 AM
Hi folks
I'm just wondering if there is any projet to translate Messenger Plus to portuguese ( Brazil ). I cannot find this language on package.
I'm a brazilian citzen, developer and I'm offering to translate Messenger Plus to portuguese ( Brazil ). If there is any interest on that please let me know. I can also translate the web site.
Email: possetti@gmail.com
msn: possetti@msn.com
Thx
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by CookieRevised on 04-09-2011 at 02:48 PM
Hi,
There is subforum dedicated to translations for Messenger Plus!. If you look there you'll see that there is already a brazillian translation for Messenger Plus!:
Brazilian translation for Messenger Plus!
As such, I'll request to the mods to move your thread to the translation subforum too, where it belongs. 
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Hanna de Avalon on 04-20-2011 at 01:46 PM
por favor não estou conseguindo gravar minhas conversas no plus 5
me de uma ajuda por favor
obrigada
Hanna
Esta pagima toda em Ingles to igual cego em tiroteio quem puder me ajudar por favor email
hanna_de_avalon@hotmail.com
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Axtinguisher on 04-20-2011 at 03:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by possetti
Hi folks
I'm just wondering if there is any projet to translate Messenger Plus to portuguese ( Brazil ). I cannot find this language on package.
Hi Possetti, we do have already a Portuguese language in Messenger Plus! Although not specifically from Brazil but the international form of it.
«According to a recent language agreement, all Portuguese-speaking countries have accepted a language convention, making it officially unique and common...»
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Language_..._Agreement_of_1990
Portuguese translation here:
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acordo_Ortogr%C3%A1fico_de_1990
Hope this helps
RE: RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Destroyzer on 04-20-2011 at 04:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Hanna de Avalon
por favor não estou conseguindo gravar minhas conversas no plus 5
me de uma ajuda por favor
obrigada
Vá nas configurações do Plus clicando no botão plus localizado na barra de menus e em "Preferências e Opções" ou algo do tipo.
Obs: Se as barras de menus não estiver visível, você só precisa apertar a tecla Alt para que ela apareça.
Agora siga para a aba Registros e clique em Registos de Conversação e marque a opção Ativar registo local de conversas.
Pronto
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Chancer on 04-20-2011 at 05:33 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Axtinguisher
Hi Possetti, we do have already a Portuguese language in Messenger Plus! Although not specifically from Brazil but the international form of it.
«According to a recent language agreement, all Portuguese-speaking countries have accepted a language convention, making it officially unique and common...»
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Language_..._Agreement_of_1990
Portuguese translation here:
http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acordo_Ortogr%C3%A1fico_de_1990
Hope this helps
Actually, the lexical choice used on each country is still very different from each other, what makes that agreement sort of useless.
Any speaker is able to distinguish the European and Brazilian with ease, and it can be fairly complicated to understand each other depending on what terms are employed on the speech. There are, for example, words written and spoken in the same way in each region, but their meaning is completely different.
RE: RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Axtinguisher on 04-20-2011 at 07:53 PM
quote:
Actually, the lexical choice used on each country is still very different from each other, what makes that agreement sort of useless.
Any speaker is able to distinguish the European and Brazilian with ease, and it can be fairly complicated to understand each other depending on what terms are employed on the speech. There are, for example, words written and spoken in the same way in each region, but their meaning is completely different.
Yes i know what you mean, as someone that speaks 3 languages i can see or rather hear these subtle differences when talking with people from different countries and this lexical choice per country is more accentuated in cultural items such as books, songs, etc...but in this case, here in Messenger Plus! for exemple, the terms are used in a technical aspect which i believe is less prompt to confusion regarding an international form of language....
What do you think??
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Chrono on 04-20-2011 at 11:35 PM
quote:wrong
Originally posted by Axtinguisher
What do you think??
i guess that in portuguese it's the same than spanish. There are multiple differences between what you'd call "spanish from spain" and "spanish from everywhere else" (aka latin american spanish) And if you want to go further, every country has it's own idioms and heck, even different grammar rules, and that happens even though there IS an institution that makes rules and such for spanish. It doesn't matter if Plus! has a more "technical" languages, there are still diferences in words such as "files" or "directories". Maybe everyone will understand the words used, but it will feel less "natural". The team has to think of words that suit everyone the most, that's the whole point of a good translation.
I have stated multiple times my opinion about this issue but i'll say it again: i think that the portuguese translation team should have at least 1 member from brazil. It makes sense, that member could actually check for words that are not common in brazil and the result would be a translation that is "neutral" and understandable by everyone. We did the same thing with spanish: We had 2 translations, one from spain (made by Choli and co.) and a latin american spanish (made by myself) and at some point we decided to merge the teams. And we managed to make a neutral version. I dont see why cant it be done with Portuguese.
Patchou never wanted to deal with this problem. Now that Yuna is around (and that sunny is responsible
) i think we should do something about this. Sunny? i seriously think that Chancer (or whoever) should be integrated into the portuguese team, it would make a better translation and we wouldnt have these kind of threads every month RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Chancer on 04-21-2011 at 03:31 AM
Yes, I fully agree with Chrono. If you want to have a better idea about the difference, just check most of "big" pieces of software, like OS, office tools (MS Office, OpenOffice, etc), even on WLM... widely-spread software.
What they have in common is that all of them have both Portugal and Brazil localizations.
Chrono proposed a neutral/mixed translation. The idea is great, but I think it's too hard to achieve satisfactory results for both sides. The best solution, IMHO, is to support both translations.
Whether they are "official" or not, it's not up to me. If Yuna decide to have both translations, it's going to be amazing to the community. Since you are now working as a company, I believe the translators might have sort of a payment (or they should, I think), therefore it may not be interesting for you.
I feel happy for the (indirect and unofficial ) invitation, but actually I quit translating a while ago due to university and stuff - time is luxury nowadays. I never really bothered to make a "resignation speech", but I did contact blessedguy and asked him to keep up my work, and he's been doing it along with another guy I don't recall the name.
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by CookieRevised on 04-21-2011 at 08:20 AM
Essentially you are both saying the same thing as Axtinguisher though, or at least aiming for the same thing: 1 unified translation.
quote:That's because up until 'now', there were two different orthographies. However, since a few years the former orthographies are not officially recognized anymore and instead the common new orthography should be used instead. It is even stated by law in Portugal in 2008 (albight with a 6 year transition period) -dixit Wiki-. You can be sure that "big" pieces of software will follow accordingly over time.
Originally posted by Chancer
Yes, I fully agree with Chrono. If you want to have a better idea about the difference, just check most of "big" pieces of software, like OS, office tools (MS Office, OpenOffice, etc), even on WLM... widely-spread software.
What they have in common is that all of them have both Portugal and Brazil localizations.
Despite what and how people might talk on the streets, and despite that people will still use 'old' words, the dialect of the country and spelling, in software you should use official spelling and grammar.
The same happened decades ago in Dutch; Dutch from The Netherlands and Belgium was different, not just spelling (that was actually almost the same anyways), but some words were written the same but had a very different meaning, and/or are prenounced a bit different. But the fact is that there is only one common official Dutch language, despite some people still using words typically for their own country and words which are not quite understood (or even misunderstood) in the other, up till today (and most likely in the futur). And yes, there are still language purists who still oppose to the use of some words, or on the opposit side who even go as far as inventing new (stupid, very far-fetched) words to try and make it 'real' Dutch.
There are many more examples of such orthographies and/or spelling changes where common languages spoken and used in different countries have become unified over the last couple of decades (spanish, german, french, etc)... Portuguese is just the latest one which became unified. If a language changes, the Plus! translation should follow, eventhough there might be still plenty people out there refusing to adapt.
The point is, there is now an officially recognized common orthography for both Pt-BR and Pt-PT. And since a few years it is the official language in both countries, if I'm not mistaken. And since we are dealing with software here, it should be used as such. Who is going to adapt their local translation or change it is up to the (unified) team, but either way it should be done nonetheless.
Of course it is going to take some effort to find a common ground and make it so that it feels natural for both countries as in: leave the 'typical local' words out and try to replace them with commonly understood words. I'm sure it can be done with a bit of goodwill from both sides, no? I have done this many years ago for Dutch (changed the oh-so-typical Netherlands'ish words into proper common Dutch ones), and Chrono and his team has done it for Spanish. It should be done for Portuguese too I think, if not now, than at least before 2014 (
).All this said, I do read (Google-translation) in that other thread that the pt-BR translation has adapted to the new orthography, or that you're at least busy with it or something. So, is there anything else that is holding you ('you' as in both the Portguese as Brazillian team) back from making a unified version? Are we missing something here (quite possible of course since we aren't living in either country)?
quote:tbh, that's not up to Sunshine. She can't force someone to join a/another team. The initiative must come from the teams themselves I think. They need to want to. And tbh, from what I've seen or at least read, there is some stubbornity into play (I can be wrong though. Actually, I hope I'm wrong).
Originally posted by Chrono
Sunny? i seriously think that Chancer (or whoever) should be integrated into the portuguese team, it would make a better translation and we wouldnt have these kind of threads every month
But as long as that isn't done, I'm afraid the issue will continue to come up and we will have more threads like this every now and then.
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Sunshine on 04-21-2011 at 09:53 AM
As Cookie said, it is indeed not up to me to decide who works in/with which translation team. One should look at that teams leader(s) for that.
That said we will never stop anyone from making, and posting, an unofficial translation. The translation can always be posted in this section (translation) of the forum. After all we can never have every language variation (or fun translation if any) in the installer anyway.
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Chancer on 04-21-2011 at 01:59 PM
Cookie, I see your point. The thing is that we've been living very far from Portugal for over 500 year, and our cultural development took very distinct paths. I understand that it was easier for German, French, Dutch, etc to unify the language because you, speakers, were still living close to each other, in touch as (almost) one single population, with small variants.
For Portuguese and Spanish (and that is what Chrono was saying), it's not that easy. We have different vocabs, and they are very well established. For a few examples, in the order: EN - PT - BR
File - Ficheiro - Arquivo
About - Acerca - Sobre
Nickname - Alcunha - Apelido
I am doing [whatever] - Estou a fazer [whatever] - Estou fazendo [whatever] > orthography is unified, but constructions are still different.
Log - Registo - Registro > words like this are still different, and people may think they are misspelled.
And one very noticeable, in Portugal, people prefer to talk on the 2nd person, when speaking directly to someone else. Here in Brazil, we have our very characteristic to speak in the 3rd person instead of 2nd. It can sound weird, but it's been like this for generations.
The great difference is this lexical variance, it's cultural. The orthography is the least important. Anyone can understand both "seleccionar" and "selecionar", "activar" and "ativar", "seqüência" and "sequência". When we talk about etymology, however, it's harder to understand each other. You need to re-learn many words.
I mean, you don't need to study 2 hours a day to learn it. Of course not. But their words are not part of our vocab, as much as our word don't belong to theirs.
In the end, even though we have the agreement, and we can easily understand each other, the linguistic difference will still sound strange to either sides.
Perhaps in the future this things can change and there will be a really unified language. However, it doesn't happen today, and will take a while until it does.
IMHO, I like my language the way I speak, and I don't want it to be changed by force. It's something that has to be molded thru time, as people change, as the world evolutes. People are trying to bring them back together, as one single language, when the natural path may be to get further and further.
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by blessedguy on 04-21-2011 at 06:09 PM
Just my little bits:
I believe an "unification" is possible, but it would require a lot of communitation between us from Brazil and them from Portugal, as we'd have to know when we have used words only some of us are used to, and when we have used actually international words. And even if complete unification ends up being impossible, it sure would be better to at least try to balance the localizations.
The current official Portuguese translation still uses the old ortography. It's not actually wrong yet, since all Portuguese-speaking countries recognized both ortographies, but it will be wrong later this year for us in Brazil, and in 2014 for the folks in Portugal, they're having a longer transition period.
IMHO, you should remind the Portuguese translation team of that, it wouldn't be of any good to have wrong spellings on the country with most users for that language (I suppose, since our internet population is bigger than Portugal's, and our people seem to love Messenger no matter what, Plus! being quite popular too).
As for initiative, Chancer is busy (which is why I'm keeping up his work with Destroyzer, as he mentioned above), but we'd love to help make the setup Portuguese language more neutral, I believe it'd be good for both sides.
Update:
quote:
Originally posted by Axtinguisher
Hi Possetti, we do have already a Portuguese language in Messenger Plus! Although not specifically from Brazil but the international form of it.
Oh no, it uses the Portuguese Portuguese
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Chrono on 04-21-2011 at 09:27 PM
quote:they are paying WAY less than before, for the record
Originally posted by Chancer
Whether they are "official" or not, it's not up to me. If Yuna decide to have both translations, it's going to be amazing to the community. Since you are now working as a company, I believe the translators might have sort of a payment (or they should, I think), therefore it may not be interesting for you.
An insignificant ammount in fact 
quote:lol, i know. i meant that she can try
Originally posted by CookieRevised
tbh, that's not up to Sunshine. She can't force someone to join a/another team.
"up to sunshine" as in "she's in charge of the translation temas" and such quote:you could propose it to them, formally
Originally posted by Sunshine
As Cookie said, it is indeed not up to me to decide who works in/with which translation team. One should look at that teams leader(s) for that.
Or point them to this thread so they can explain their point of view if they dont want to.
RE: RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Sunshine on 04-22-2011 at 10:19 AM
quote:You still do not know what we are going to pay, the website translation pay is one thing, there is still more to come (soon). So do not judge/draw conclusions just yet! Whether the plans also behold pay for program translations, which currently is not payed and never has been (besides the occasional t-shirt/gift), remains to be seen. Anyway I don't think this is something that should be discussed in public, translations should still be done for the love of the progam, not for the money! It was never intended that way and should not become so either (quality over...you know what I mean).
Originally posted by Chrono
quote:they are paying WAY less than before, for the record
Originally posted by Chancer
Whether they are "official" or not, it's not up to me. If Yuna decide to have both translations, it's going to be amazing to the community. Since you are now working as a company, I believe the translators might have sort of a payment (or they should, I think), therefore it may not be interesting for you.
quote:No formal proposal from me, it is up to them. I did take your other suggestion and informally informed them about this discussion.
you could propose it to them, formally
Or point them to this thread so they can explain their point of view if they dont want to.
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by blessedguy on 04-22-2011 at 04:57 PM
quote:Thank you
Originally posted by Sunshine
quote:No formal proposal from me, it is up to them. I did take your other suggestion and informally informed them about this discussion.
Originally posted by Chrono
Or point them to this thread so they can explain their point of view if they dont want to.
RE: Messenger Plus in portuguese ( Brazil ) language by Kuroi on 08-14-2011 at 07:15 PM
Portuguese is very different from spanish or english when it comes to "understanding each other no matter the country".
Latin American spanish and European Spanish has slight differences in accent and word choice, which is normal, but they can understand each other without any problems.
The same goes for American English and European English. The accent difference is even bigger than in spanish languages, but people from the UK can watch a cartoon dubbed in american english, and americans can play watch a movie with european english audio and they don't find it weird.
In Brazil, we jus't can't play or watch something in european portuguese because it sounds too weird and we can't understand it very well. Sometimes it even sounds funny to our ears. We also don't listen to european portuguese songs, we don't watch Portuguese movies, we don't read books translated to european portuguese and we don't play games in european portuguese translations... But the language still share the same name.
On the other hand, Portugal is more used to Brazilian Portuguese. They listen to our songs, they watch our novelas (soap operas) and TV shows. I also heard that they didn't have a dubbing studio untill the 90's, so all the tv shows and cartoon were in brazilian portuguese.
This might sounds a little xenofobic from me, but the thing is: European Portuguese is VERY weird for Brazilians, we are not used to it, its a bit hard to understand it perfectly when we read or listen to it, specially when it comes to technologic and computer therms.
I think MSGPLUS doesn't come with Brazilian Portuguese language as an option because the person who decides that is not aware of those facts, or maybe he just don't care, I don't know.
Brazil is one of the countries who uses MSN MESSENGER the most, much more than portugal, but MSGPLUS has no native support for our language.
I'm not saying that European Portuguese shouldn't be on the list, I'm saying that BOTH version of the languages should come with MSGPLUS.
Sorry about my english.