Shoutbox

Hi,

We are using Windows 2000, Messenger 7.0.0816 and Messenger Plus! 3.63.148.

I want to protect my children, especially having just discovered by accident that one of them was in trouble, so I set Parental Control on Plus! and set it to log all chats to a hidden folder on the computer.  However, it appears that chat logging can be overriden just by using the Plus! menu in each individual conversation window.

Have I done something incorrectly or is there no way of making sure all chat gets logged?  I want to make sure the children can't hide evidence of other people's wrong-doing to them, which I know scared children are likely to do.

Does the Live version of Plus! control this better and can we use this on our setup?

Thanks in advance.

Edited:  I forgot to ask about viewing the logs - I haven't quite got the hang of when Plus! saves the log or whether/when you can use a chat window to pull up and view the log or even perhaps delete it.  If someone could clarify that, I would appreciate it - I feel like a break from investigating new features!!!

No, true parental control like you whish isn't available either in Messenger Plus! Live. It would actually not be very bullet-proof either as you could simply not run Messenger Plus! when you use MSN Messenger or Windows Live Messenger, so there is little point adding it too. The log system still works in the same way, btw.

If you want parental control I suggest to use special designed programs for that which run on top of everything and give your child only access to certain things. Some parental control programs also log internet data traffic (no matter what IM program you use to chat), keystrokes, etc.

The line between a good parental program and spyware/keyboard loggers is actually very thin though

What Cookie said its true.

But you could try enabling chat logging, putting a password in the chats, saving them to a secret folder and protecting the preferences with a password?

But that will only work if your child is young and doesnt know how to disable the chatlogging.

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Edited:  I forgot to ask about viewing the logs - I haven't quite got the hang of when Plus! saves the log or whether/when you can use a chat window to pull up and view the log or even perhaps delete it.  If someone could clarify that, I would appreciate it - I feel like a break from investigating new features!!!

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And to view the chat just put the place where you asked Msg Plus! to save the chatlogs at. It doesnt matter if the folder is hidden, it will show.

(eg. just type the address
C:\Documents and Settings\Computer\My Documents\chatlogs (If thats where you have it)

Hope that helps.

If you are reading your children's chatlogs i suggest you tell them this because it is quite unfair to do so without their knowledge. think of it this way, if they found out some time in the future that you were reading them they would probably hate you. Now you don't want that to happen do you...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
No, true parental control like you whish isn't available either in Messenger Plus! Live. It would actually not be very bullet-proof either as you could simply not run Messenger Plus! when you use MSN Messenger or Windows Live Messenger, so there is little point adding it too. The log system still works in the same way, btw.

If you want parental control I suggest to use special designed programs for that which run on top of everything and give your child only access to certain things. Some parental control programs also log internet data traffic (no matter what IM program you use to chat), keystrokes, etc.

The line between a good parental program and spyware/keyboard loggers is actually very thin though

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But that will only work if your child is young and doesnt know how to disable the chatlogging.

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Originally posted by azn angel
If you are reading your children's chatlogs i suggest you tell them this because it is quite unfair to do so without their knowledge. think of it this way, if they found out some time in the future that you were reading them they would probably hate you. Now you don't want that to happen do you...

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Thanks all.  Looks like a keylogger type program may be the way to go.  The children are old enough and all of them savvy enough with computers to turn off logging on a per conversation basis.

I agree with all the comments everyone has made about privacy but having had one child involved in something he didn't realise was wrong and only sheer accident alerted me to the problem, and another child (which I had forgotten when I posted this) bullied by a fellow school child saying that his whole family wished he was dead, and knowing how children will hide things because they feel guilty even though they are not at fault (I know I did as a child when I had a teacher who was a bully), I intend to keep a stricter eye on what is going on.

For a long time I held the opinion, and held it pretty firmly, that parents shouldn't read children's diaries, etc.  However, having found out what was going on and that this put my child at serious physical risk, I discovered that when my kids are at risk, my attitude underwent a complete change and I now think we are stupid and wrong to hold privacy as a stronger priority than protecting them.  It wasn't something I sat down and considered when my child was at risk; I just suddenly saw things very differently and although they will still be given the same respect they always were, I will be making regular checks of how things are going and if I see signs that worry me, I'll be checking things I normally wouldn't.  There is a fair degree of trust between my children and I but as I know only too well, children don't always realise when it is in their best interests to tell you things.

I know I have "rambled" a bit on this part but it was quite a scare and I just want to share my thoughts in the hope that it may help other parents to possibly reconsider their position on this for the sake of their children.  I have two younger ones who I don't want ending up in the same danger so things are changing around here.

And yes, if there isn't a good relationship in the first place, your child certainly won't accept you breaching their privacy.  My child was initially angry but is now okay with it and actually thankful that I found out what was happening because they can now see the dangers.  As I said before, they will still be given their privacy but also protection is being put in place.  What they write in a diary is one thing - what happens on the internet  where other people are involved is another.

Thanks again, all.

I believe the point made by the poster was that if you choose to pursue this kind of monitoring, you should not do so surreptitiously.  If your children know they shouldn't have any expectations of privacy, they just won't do "it" -- whatever "it" might be -- and that should serve your purposes just as well or better than catching them doing it.

Personally, I suspect most of the potential issues there can be better addressed by precautionary instruction regarding what they might encounter online.

weather you have good intentions or not, or how you think they will react,you should still not invade there privacy, if i found out that my parents EVER spyed on me, i would seriously do something about it

if companys have to tell complete strangers that there "calls maybe recorded for quality/training perposes" the least you could do as a parent is tell your child that you are reading his e-mails/chats/anything

if you are agenst reading diarys, whats the differance between that and spying on there online conversations.

if you have such a good relationship like you said, then you shouldn't have to spy, you should be able to ask, and get the answer that you are looking for

even AOL, which has emensly strict parental controls, still does not record e-mails/IM's content for parents.

children have rights to privacy too, respect them and they will grow up to have respect for you, and other people.

My daughter, who is 14, lets me have her MSN password. She's fairly sensible and tends to delete contacts that act inapropriately, one of whom was a 45 year old man who really frightened her at the time.

I do think you need to be honest tho. If there is trust and you are open with each other, the children shouldn't be too afraid to tell you. However, if you break their trust they will start to hide things from you.

It's hard to decide where to draw the line with children because they do need protecting, but they also need to be treated with respect.

I guess every parent needs to do what they feel is right for them. And nobody knows their own children better than a mother

A keylogger is definitely one way to go. I've been asked on several occasions to monitor my sister's MSN (not because of people she meets online, but actually because of the people she goes about with) by my dad.

I actually used a combination of ethereal (it has a new name now, and I've forgotten what it is) and a filter which allowed me to see what she was sending by monitoring network traffic.

There's also a program called MSN Sniffer out there - although I don't believe it's freeware - which simply sniffs out MSN chat packets as they are sent.

I agree that people's conversations should be private, but only once they're old mature enough to be trusted not to do anything stupid anyway. My sister definitely doesn't fall into that category - although I did tell her that I watch what she's saying. And she says stupid things regardless.

I personally think spying on your children is a losing propostion.  If they don't feel that they can confide in you now, how will they feel after they find out your spying on them?  They will find out.  If they are computer savvy, they will eventually detect it or you will confront them with something you found while snooping.  Here is a pretty good article detailing the problems and consequences of spying on your children.  How would you feel if your boss, spouse, children, etc... were spying on you?  I am sure they could come up with a lot of valid reasons why they were doing it.  "I wanted to make sure he/she wasn't stealing from me" or "I wanted to make sure he/she wasn't cheating on me" or "I wanted to make sure my parents weren't spying on me."

Also, a lot of keylogger and spyware vendors are not the most reputable companies in the world.  Be careful that you aren't the one that is getting spied upon.  I have written an article on spyware that you may find helpful.

Good luck!