Shoutbox

quote:

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Originally posted by Ddunk
About IRC: Got a problem with us? Don't bring it to the forums, keep the two seperate, let the forums deal with their shit and let us deal with ours. If you don't really want to come there because you're afraid of the magical monster that says we chew out and kickban everyone who joins, PM an Op on the forums (Me, segosa, EvilSeph, Time, Chris Boulton, Dane, etc.)

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Its kind of hard to report abuse to the people who do the abusing. 

I was on my last straw, Ddunk, Segosa, Shawnz, & FrozzenDaggers, and you all did something I never thought you would.  I have lost all respect for you. I still cant believe you all could say and do such a thing.  You put me in a horrible mood, ruined my day, which in turn made my school class a really hard. 

I'm taking a brake from this forum, and the IRC chat channels.  See ya around. GoodBye...
 

quote:

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Originally posted by lou_habs

Is it really like that? The irc is run in a way for the same community. If you don't want us brining us issues on the forums about it, is it really because it annoys you? or because you can't just click block and pretend the person isn't telling everyone else the truth. Please do not take this personally. But everytime irc is brought up on here the people that are on there often always tell everyone to shut up. Maybe there is a problem. Sure its different than the community and therefore should be treated differently. But I think that issues can not always be resolved via pm. People may ignore them. As for msn, that can be an even bigger problem. You can't get a hold of the email address of someone that really really hates you, to tell them to stop it please. Do you really think that it's a good idea?

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Or maybe we just don't want our shit flooding onto the forums? I doubt the admins care about it either. If you seriously have a problem with us, talk to us, don't come bitch on the forums about it.

Look guys being a member of these forums with a fair few amount of posts, and an oper on the irc forums.  I think I have a fairly reasonable view of what goes on in both.

Forums are ran by a team of what I'd call excellent Administrators and Moderators, they are very fair and put up with a lot of shit big forum mods and admins normally don't.  So don't whine or moan when something goes wrong, Dz and Surfi are normally on the ball and aware of most problems with users as they happen.  People argue people disagree but not much can really go wrong with the boards with the average user here.

IRC is in my opinion a completly different ballgame.   I learnt from the very basics in #msgplus.  I have moved across something like 5 servers to the support channels current home.  I have learnt a lot about people and the way IRC must work to be some sort of sane community.  Best real way to think of it is a channel is a classroom.  Operators are teachers and users are pupils.  Now most rules of human interaction are exactly the same.  Take for example I'm helping one user/pupil and you interupt with SHOUTING  I'm going to kick you in the channel, or tell you to sit down and shutup in a classroom.  Theres no difference.  Carry on and I'll send you outside my room.  Which would be similar to a kickban.  (Sorry if this is confusing but I'm trying to make it clear as possible).

Both are very different.  Sorry if I mumbled.  or Whatever but I'm tired and I jsut wanted to clear this up.

Feel free to contact myself if you have problems on IRC and I'll attempt to do my best.  I'm sure other opers would do the same. 

About IRC:
It was stated a LOT of times that IRC and the forums aren't the same. It doesn't matter if they're for MsgPlus! or for whatever they are, IRC issues and Forum issues are to be handled separately.

Now, this thread has become IRC-related, which is the opposite of its purpose.

To be honest, you don't require to be a great person to go to IRC. I'm an idiot who never does anything on IRC but to put smilies and whatnot, and never got banned or treated bad. So, maybe you could try a different approach.

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About behavior:
Anyway, the forums might not be crumbling down or anything like that, but the air is different. I don't think it's because of the admins or what they do. It's easier to blame the people with more "forum age" and power (like with everything), but they're just a few.

The real issue is the whole community. I don't mean it's anything bad, it's just that the world is going through a lot of issues and it reflects on us. Our different opinions and tastes clash, and with time it generates anger against other members.

It's human, so I don't think we can do anything about it. Maybe calm down a little, but tell that to the dozens of people who post daily (regulars, I mean).

About some phrases and my thoughts on them:
You don't need to have the last word in every single debate.
This reminds me that if two members are the type to have the last word at everything, if they clash, it's a never-ending, eventual, flame war.

If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything.
We did have a debate over this phrase. It doesn't mean to suck up or take it literally. It simply means that sometimes, it's best to keep your mouth shut. Not only because it may hurt the other person, but because you might also get hurt.

Words are words. Be mature.
How much harm can a comment cause the member I'm talking to? If I tell him/her: "you're an idiot!", how will they react? Do I know this person enough to joke and be understood? These are basic questions you should make yourself before posting something, anything.

You might not care at all about what others tell you, but remember, not everyone is like you. Some people take things seriously, and it's something to consider. After all, if you do it with your family, friends and ocassional strangers, why not respect people's feelings on the Internet?

Agree to disagree.
What is the point of keeping a discussion if things are starting to get personal? The solution is not carrying it on until one of you gets banned or hurt, but to leave it at that and move on. Opinions are that, personal thoughts that might or not be changed, but debates are not to force changes, but to open minds.

About helping:
But, seriously, we could learn to tolerate each other. This is a support forum, mainly. Which, reminds me of what someone else posted: some people think there's a race to see who helps the most people in one second.

Don't get me wrong, they seem to have the best intentions, but when replying you can't understand a thing of what they're saying because they must have been typing in a rush. This confuses the person who comes here for the help and help only.

About rules:
The rules and guidelines are all over the place, maybe some people should read them again. It would really ease up a lot of work. I know I ocassionally slip, like anyone else, but some make these slippings part of their everyday forum experience...


Anyway, that's kind of what I had to say today... Feel free to PM me or something. I hope this doesn't offend anyone, I like the forums and will stick around a lot more, no matter what others say.

<--- off to sleep


PS: to think traxor is missing all this!

quote:

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Originally posted by Time
IRC is about mutual respect and not being a lamer.
...
Just as everywhere else respect is earnt on IRC; mostly by spending lots of time active, by hanging around channels for a long time; people soon learn that you are knowledgeable and not a lamer.
...
If you prove clueless or say stupid things then you are quickly removed. That's how IRC works.

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Exactly. At the beginning of the year when I first started regularly joining IRC, everyone pretty much hated/ignored me. But I kept coming and ignoring everyones criticism and eventually I got noticed, and now i'm ``ShawnZ''. Its all about not acting retarted, or all friendly/cute or whatever. That's IRC.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
None of the forum staff want to acknowledge it, because the cause if it are members that they are friends with, plus some of the staff are the cause also.

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I'm taking offence to that on behalf of the other members of staff here. Speaking for myself, if you misbehave and are my friend or not you'll cop the same punishment. I've had to ban several of my 'friends' numerous times and do you think it is easy on us? Do you really think we'd treat people lighter because we're friends with them?

You have to remember, we have to make decisions sometimes and if it looks like we're going light on someone then that is most certainly not the case. All of our decisions are based on our own judgement as well as what the user has been involved with before.

quote:

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Originally posted by lou_habs
They do a great job but do have favourites unfourtunately. And they take decisions based on their favourites. For example, I was banned once because I spammed a bit. Sure that is acceptable. However I was also told that it was because I asked to be a beta tester, which I never did. It was someone who posted before me, and I took the blame. And the admins/mods don't seem to like me anymore because of this. Sure some probably don't even care, but there are some like mnjul who seem to not like me.

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You were banned because you spammed. End of story. When we ban someone its not like we hold this huge grudge against them for the rest of their membership. I think you'll find that we forget about it a few days later and it's only when people bring it up that we are reminded. We're not angry at you and we don't hate you!

Now, i'm at work at the moment so i'll write a better reply later when I get home! Would rather do it now that i have this in my head:

quote:

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Originally posted by XxRebelSeanxX
Staff wise: IMHO, I think there should be LOCAL mods. People (Elites) should be given the oportunity to moderate certain forums. I know there are a small number of forums, but I do think that putting local mods would reduce the spam. And I see spam all the time, like today, 4 people said the SAME thing in a thread. That should not be allowed, and I remember back in the day if you confirmed or said things that had already been stated you got trolled.

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"Local" - Normal Moderators - are useless on a forum of this size because they need to be able to moderate the other forums as well. Adding new moderators isn't the solution to a spam problem either - we've discussed this too. Oh, and if you see this spam then do us a favour and report it! It will be dealt with!

quote:

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Originally posted by XxRebelSeanxX
More bans: I think the current system is fine, but when you see the SAME people getting banned weekly I do believe that is very dodgy. IICRC, I thought that people were going to be permanantly banned after like 5 bans? I may not be right, but I though Chris Boulton said that before. Also, I do believe that 1 day bans have got to be longer, because the people who are getting 1 day bans are just coming back doing the same crap as they did before.

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3 strikes and you're out for a long time. As you'll see, toddy is now gone.

quote:

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Originally posted by XxRebelSeanxX
Testing & Trashing: I think there should be set guidelines on what is allowed to be posted there. The current posts and threads are 99% useless, but I know the forum is there for people to spam. But when people go in topics and just go "HI" or  post one emoticon, it gets annoying, examples are there you just have to look.

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Indeed.

quote:

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Originally posted by lou_habs
Is it really like that? The irc is run in a way for the same community. If you don't want us brining us issues on the forums about it, is it really because it annoys you?

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Actually it's because we dont want to deal with IRC issues on the forum.

Feel free to post them in Forum & Website however don't expect the forum staff here to do anything because we're not in charge of IRC.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
You put me in a horrible mood, ruined my day, which in turn made my school class a really hard.

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Then if the computer is really affecting you that much then I suggest you have a break from it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
I'm leaving this forum, and the IRC chat channels.  Nice meeting all of you, GoodBye

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Thanks for telling us the community is crap then running off!

quote:

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Originally posted by Wabz
Forums are ran by a team of what I'd call excellent Administrators and Moderators, they are very fair and put up with a lot of shit big forum mods and admins normally don't.

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Thanks for the support Wabz - at least one member here thinks we do a good job.

Now, I just want to finish my reply by stating (something which i've forgot). Oh, yeah, right. About the favourtism - there are several of my 'friends' around here whos posts I keep tabs on (monitor) because I know they can say some mean things before - and if I see them doing so then I won't treat them easier than others.

You look at any other community (Neowin, Mess, MSFN) and you'll see they all have problems like this - as was said in this thread, you can't have thousands of people together and expect them to each like each other and there not to be a few little arguments and things. Welcome to the world.

[edit] Just back on IRC. If its server issues or issues with #msgplus then by all means bring it here. However it isn't our job to police #banana, #apple and #mybb and any other channel on the network if there are problems with those channels. IRC Operators (opers) exist on the network to handle issues like this as well as the channel founders. The opers, who are more than willing to listen, are Trekie, wtbw, segosa, Wabz and supposidly myself. (Kisskiss if i missed anyone - apart from the other guy :x)

quote:

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Originally posted by lou_habs
That is the main reason that alot oif members do not go on irc. The first two times I went I was abused, insulted, abused some more, banned/kicked for just saying hi. They didn't want a new person there, so they it seem like the person said/did something offending. Sure it's not in the support chan. But alot of people go on the chat chans..and then leave because they were abused of or banned.

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I read this and found it hard to believe. I don't think you were abused the moment you joined and for no reason. IRC isn't that bad at all. I did a bit of searching in my #banana logs..

I believe this was the first time you came on IRC:

code:

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[04:20:09] * Joins: lou_habs (~msgplus@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca)
[04:20:18] <@wacky> and there he is!
[04:20:24] <@Omar> you're not cool...
[04:20:28] <lou_habs> hey its you pplz
[04:20:29] <@wacky>
[04:20:32] <@wacky> yeah I am
[04:20:34] <lou_habs> hey wacky
[04:20:35] <@wacky> nah I aint lol
[04:20:37] <@wacky> hi lou
[04:20:39] <lou_habs> since when is your name wacky cool?
[04:20:47] <@wacky> I just replied to your post
[04:20:48] <@Omar> you body's temp is 37.5º just like everybody else...
[04:20:53] <lou_habs> lol
[04:21:05] <lou_habs> I need to be on here more often!
[04:21:08] <@wacky> lies omy.. mines at 20.34
[04:21:13] <@Omar>
[04:21:16] <@wacky> why.. this place sucks
[04:21:20] <@Omar> you ARE cool
[04:21:27] <@Ddunk> did you try another distro of linux lou_habs?
[04:21:27] <@wacky> haha
[04:21:49] <lou_habs> ddunk...I was able to make it work...and no only one distro...didnt like it
[04:22:01] <@Omar> doughboyy... this guy TylerG is making fun of you
[04:22:04] <@Omar>
[04:22:08] <@wacky> Now Playing: Murderdolls - I Take Drugs [00:26/01:43@128kbps]
[04:22:09] <@Ddunk> what didn't you like?
[04:22:17] <lou_habs> dunno...no imgs at all..lol
[04:23:03] <@Ddunk> there are a few with GUI, like redhat
[04:23:08] <@Ddunk> +a

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(conversation continued with a bit of a discussion on linux)

I saw no abuse, rather, you were being helped.

A bit later...

code:

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[04:31:54] <lou_habs> does chaotic_shield ever come on here?
[04:31:55] <@Omar> its a torrent site
[04:32:01] <@Ddunk> invite only
[04:32:05] <@Ddunk> and yes lou_habs
[04:32:33] <lou_habs> alright...ddunk Im not used to being on here...how in the world did you make that thing go ping?
[04:32:55] <@Ddunk> Ping? Pong!
[04:32:56] <@Ddunk> that thing?
[04:33:01] <@Ddunk> it's the server making sure you're still connected

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Same thing there ^

code:

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[05:05:41] <lou_habs> come on you lazy bums wake up and smell the roses
[05:06:10] <@wacky> roses have thorns
[05:06:39] <lou_habs> your dodgy imo

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You could easily have been abused there but you weren't. You were asking for it.

code:

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[03:25:55] * lou_habs slaps XxRebelSeanxX around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:29] * lou_habs slapping time
[03:26:29] * lou_habs slaps AznAngel around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:30] * lou_habs slaps Dane around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:31] * lou_habs slaps Ddunk around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:32] * lou_habs slaps digital around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:32] * lou_habs slaps EvilSeph around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:33] * lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca) was kicked by Robot (Stop flooding!)
[03:26:39] <@AznAngel> owned.
[03:26:43] * Joins: lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca)
[03:26:43] <YBWZRD> pawned
[03:26:44] * lou_habs slaps Time around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:45] * lou_habs slaps Wabz around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:45] * lou_habs slaps Jenny around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:47] * lou_habs slaps paul|laptop around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:47] <lou_habs> sory bout that.
[03:26:48] * lou_habs slaps segbot around a bit with a large trout
[03:26:48] * Robot sets mode: +b *!*@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca
[03:26:48] * lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca) was kicked by Robot (Stop flooding!)

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That wasn't even done by a human. The bot banned you automatically for flooding.

code:

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[03:28:28] * lou_habs slaps lou_habs around a bit with a large trout
[03:28:41] * Robot sets mode: +b *!*@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca
[03:28:41] * lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca) was kicked by Robot (flood.)

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That wasn't justified at all, but we don't know what op kicked you (signkicks off) so we'll have to ignore that..

I searched for any time you were kicked..

code:

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[19:01:25] <lou_habs> 4,1&#8364;9«0©9»4,1&#8364;9«0©9» 4,1&#8364; 9«0©9»4,1&#8364;9«0©9»4, 1&#8364;9« 0©9»4,1&#8364;9«0©9»4,1&#8364;9 «0©9»4,1&#8364;9«0©9» 4,1&#83 64;9«0©9»4,1&#8364;9«0©9»4,1 &#8364;9«0©9»4,1&#8364;
[19:01:26] <lou_habs> 4,1&#8364;9«0©9» 4,1&#8364; 9WELCOM E 4,1&#8364;9«0© 9»4,1&#8364;  9HUGS 4, 1&#8364;9«0©9»4,1&#8364;  9 WELCOME 4,1&#836 4;9«0© 9»4,1&#8364;
[19:01:26] <lou_habs> 4,1&#8364;9«0©9 »4,1&#8364;0,4              LittleK               4,1&#8364; 9«0©9»4,1&#8364;
[19:01:26] <lou_habs> 4,1&#836 4;9«0©9»4 ,1&#8364; 9WELCOME  4,1&#8364;9«0©9»4,1 &#8364; 9HUGS 4,1&#8 364;9«0©9»4,1&# 8364; 9 WELCOME 4,1&#8364;9«0 ©9»4,1&#8364;
[19:01:26] <lou_habs> 4,1&#8364;9«0©9» 4,1&#8364;....
[19:01:32] <LittleK>
[19:01:33] <ShawnZ> Holy fuck wtf.

[19:02:15] * lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca) was kicked by segosa (TURN IT OFF.)

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That was something like the third time you showed the stupid colour banner after we told you to stop...

I also kicked you once because you kept joining, parting, joining, parting every minute.

Seems EvilSeph doesn't like noobtalk..

code:

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[19:26:36] <lou_habs> J00 MUST B0W D0\/\/|\| 2 ~|~|-|3 lou_habs()|_-|\/|A|\|
[19:26:42] <lou_habs> lol
[19:26:59] <@EvilSeph> http://www.web2messenger.com/forum/index.php/topi...g4306.html#msg4306 << this fuy is funny
[19:27:03] * lou_habs (~louhabs@MsgPlus-9C58E5C.mc.videotron.ca) was kicked by EvilSeph (.)

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That's everything I could find. From the moment you first joined to now, that's every time you've been kicked.

I don't call it being abused, every time you were kicked there was a valid reason (bar one, and we don't know who did it).

Why are we winging theres nothing we can to the forums went downhill a long time ago they will never go back to the way they once were i find it sad to think i once cherised this place spent hours on end posting whatever the hell i felt like without anyone caring tbh no suggestion or anything can bring these forums back to what they once  were so we should just drop it and deal with those who are causing others grief

thats my input

Pip.

quote:

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Originally posted by Pipish
Why are we winging theres nothing we can to the forums went downhill a long time ago they will never go back to the way they once were i find it sad to think i once cherised this place spent hours on end posting whatever the hell i felt like without anyone caring tbh no suggestion or anything can bring these forums back to what they once  were so we should just drop it and deal with those who are causing others grief

thats my input

Pip.

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Oh geez, its 2 am, I can't read that shit, mind adding some punctuation?

quote:

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Originally posted by Sunshine
Being a good helper (quick, good help, not loosing patience...staying friendly) on irc is a hell of a lot tougher than it is to be a good one onhere.

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Not even a quarter of the users on the server actually help in the support channel..

quote:

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Originally posted by ShawnZ
Oh geez, its 2 am, I can't read that shit, mind adding some punctuation?

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quote:

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Why are we winging theres nothing we can do .The forums went downhill a long time ago, they will never go back to the way they once were. I find it sad to think i once cherised this place spent hours on end posting whatever the hell i felt like without anyone caring. Tbh no suggestion or anything can bring these forums back to what they once were, so we should just drop it and deal with those who are causing others grief.

thats my input

Pip.

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Better?

One of my experiences on irc:
i used to be a op on #banana, but one day it was removed without my knowledge. I was there for about half an hour/hour without realising this. Then LittleK, Frozendaggers plus others started bitching and arguing. I told them to stop it, and warned them with a kick (i was still oblivious to the fact that i wasnt a op). In return all i got was a rude responce telling me to F*ck off, stfu, gtfu etc.. then after i tryed to ban Littlek for being rude to a op, realising my op had been removed, i declared to the forum something along the lines of "wtf happen to my op " to i get the reply (similer reply) "LittleK: yeh thats why i didnt listen to you lol", "LittleK: If you were one, i would have shut up". While this is happening others such a segosa take no notice, dont ban her, dont kick her, and so on. Come on, just because they are girls they get special rights? Immune to discipline? "wow shes fit".

What i would like to see done on the forums:

staff just being stricter.
just basically deleting the rubbish, no splits etc.
Longer bans, and more of them.

Elites + maybe others have the right to make posts invisible awaiting mod preview? so infectively deleting post but allowing it open to mod decision?

Reputations should be looked at, maybe this same elite/member moderating system could be put in place?

Favourtism to be decreased, dont get me wrong, its great that you can make friend on these boards, i myself have made a fair few, but they should never be allowed to influence decisions.

I would ask that some members are not treated like celebs. I highly disagree that people should hang on anothers every word because they are popular or cool etc. its just not right, you should all be a individual.

that is all for now