Shoutbox

quote:

---

Originally posted by mattisdada
Oppinion. Iunno, the people, the country side. Whatever you like/look for in a country.

---

You think the Australian countryside is awesome until you see other countries. NZ make us look pretty silly.

quote:

---

Originally posted by mattisdada
Thats why Ch10 has to say "seriously" all the time... or they think we might think that they were thinking of joking... very complicated matter.

---

The alternative was "Like, totally", except Sandra Silly couldn't remember the line.

quote:

---

Originally posted by azn angel
and tbh, i am fucking sick of white australians saying gtfo of OUR country. White people are not the original inhabitants of this country, they basically stole it. we are SUPPOSED to be a multi-cultural society but i am not seeing that happen =/

---

What's happening here is that people are coming into this country without respecting it's laws. If a law is wrong, you can follow the proper channels to have it changed. Until that happens, you damn well follow that law.

Gtfoooc is usually invoked when migrants have no respect for the country that they are moving to. Which is not to say that it can't be misused by stupid people, but it's not a bad thing in itself.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CookieRevised
...but last year I came across a reportage from UK journalists (BBC?) which claimed otherwise. That despite the fact that some tribe had land rights, they still were being "tricked" by a big ass company and gained absolutely nothing for letting them mining their land. (I think it was somewhere in northern Arnhem Land, but don't quote me on this).

---

You're probably talking about Jabiluka.

Which is not aboriginal-specific, of course. Federal governments often make decisions regarding mining material or the placement of refuse sites or power plants over the heads of local owners of the land. It's the same story with transport- if the state government wants to build a freeway on your land, they have the ability to take that from you. That the interest is commercial is of as much relevance as if that freeway was to be a tollway.


---

With regards the IR laws (this is becoming an interesting thread!)

The fairness test:

The best fairness test is the employee. Why not let them decide if they would like to give up benefit X for reward Y? That's what the old system was.

--

Kevin Rudd is a pushover. He had an opportunity to really make a stand for this country, but he's gradually rounded off his edges to fit the conservative mold. Yuck. That said, Wayne Swann will make a great treasurer!

quote:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by azn angel
and tbh, i am fucking sick of white australians saying gtfo of OUR country. White people are not the original inhabitants of this country, they basically stole it. we are SUPPOSED to be a multi-cultural society but i am not seeing that happen =/

---

What's happening here is that people are coming into this country without respecting it's laws. If a law is wrong, you can follow the proper channels to have it changed. Until that happens, you damn well follow that law.

Gtfoooc is usually invoked when migrants have no respect for the country that they are moving to. Which is not to say that it can't be misused by stupid people, but it's not a bad thing in itself.

---

Amen to that!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Verte
With regards the IR laws (this is becoming an interesting thread!)

The fairness test:

The best fairness test is the employee. Why not let them decide if they would like to give up benefit X for reward Y? That's what the old system was.

---

I disagree with the employee "fairness test". How can something be fair if its decided by one of the two parties which obviously has a bias towards decisions benefiting themselves? There has to be a "test" or at least an approach to deciding whats fair - the IR system has to be fair on both employers and employees offering both incentives for employers to employ workers and offering employees some flexibility in the process as well.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chestah

quote:

---

Originally posted by Verte
With regards the IR laws (this is becoming an interesting thread!)

The fairness test:

The best fairness test is the employee. Why not let them decide if they would like to give up benefit X for reward Y? That's what the old system was.

---

I disagree with the employee "fairness test". How can something be fair if its decided by one of the two parties which obviously has a bias towards decisions benefiting themselves? There has to be a "test" or at least an approach to deciding whats fair - the IR system has to be fair on both employers and employees offering both incentives for employers to employ workers and offering employees some flexibility in the process as well.

---

It has to be made by both people concerned, and both people will have an interest in benefiting themselves. They should be able to decide what's fair on their own, however an external review can help employees recieve more consideration.

Verte, under the old system employees were not allowed to give up certain benefits for other rewards.

quote:

---

Originally posted by rav0

It has to be made by both people concerned, and both people will have an interest in benefiting themselves. They should be able to decide what's fair on their own, however an external review can help employees recieve more consideration.

---

Very true

quote:

---

Originally posted by rav0
Verte, under the old system employees were not allowed to give up certain benefits for other rewards.

---

Its all about choice and extra flexibility!

hmm a few different points here...

First of all; the racism towards Aboriginals. Yes, they cop it. Their race was thrown big time off track when the poms and convicts came to Australia. Since then they have had major societal problems. The thing is that our generation of non-Aboriginal Australians are not committing any wrongdoing against them, but their culture has been thrown so far off that many of them are giving the rest a bad name. It's a tough chain to be in.

Being Australian is as much something in your heart as it is something on your birth certificate or place of living. White Australians are perfectly within their right to call Australia 'our' country in my opinion. You'll find the majority are extremely accepting of the ethnic part of our society.

As for the politics part of the thread.. I am fully in support of Howard for not apologising. I wouldn't apologise. I am sorry it happened, but I have nothing to apologise for.

I still don't understand the "beats Costello" argument. He has been the best Treasurer Australia has seen - why would he not be a good PM? That's all too late now anyway, I hope Rudd struggles to get rid of the IR laws they are doing good things for the country. Of course there will be individual cases that aren't good for the employee, but you have to look at the overall effect. If the employee is good enough they should be able to quit their whinging and find another job.


mid 40 degree days around Christmas and all throughout summer.. I love it!

quote:

---

Originally posted by haydos
I am sorry it happened

---

That is the whole idea.  Sorry that it happened and a committment that he would not do the same and pledge that he would try to embrace aboriginal culture more for the benifit of maintaining the heritage.

Can this be put in GCC?

It's become a more serious discussion than the original "is Australia awesome?" (which belonged in T&T). It'd be nice if this could be kept in the forums (no purge).

quote:

---

Originally posted by haydos
hmm a few different points here...

First of all; the racism towards Aboriginals. Yes, they cop it. Their race was thrown big time off track when the poms and convicts came to Australia. Since then they have had major societal problems. The thing is that our generation of non-Aboriginal Australians are not committing any wrongdoing against them, but their culture has been thrown so far off that many of them are giving the rest a bad name. It's a tough chain to be in.

Being Australian is as much something in your heart as it is something on your birth certificate or place of living. White Australians are perfectly within their right to call Australia 'our' country in my opinion. You'll find the majority are extremely accepting of the ethnic part of our society.

As for the politics part of the thread.. I am fully in support of Howard for not apologising. I wouldn't apologise. I am sorry it happened, but I have nothing to apologise for.

I still don't understand the "beats Costello" argument. He has been the best Treasurer Australia has seen - why would he not be a good PM? That's all too late now anyway, I hope Rudd struggles to get rid of the IR laws they are doing good things for the country. Of course there will be individual cases that aren't good for the employee, but you have to look at the overall effect. If the employee is good enough they should be able to quit their whinging and find another job.


mid 40 degree days around Christmas and all throughout summer.. I love it!

---

Nice post - pretty much summed up exactly how i feel! Also i like your forum nick . Do you watch much cricket ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by rav0

quote:

---

Originally posted by Chestah

quote:

---

Originally posted by Verte
With regards the IR laws (this is becoming an interesting thread!)

The fairness test:

The best fairness test is the employee. Why not let them decide if they would like to give up benefit X for reward Y? That's what the old system was.

---

I disagree with the employee "fairness test". How can something be fair if its decided by one of the two parties which obviously has a bias towards decisions benefiting themselves? There has to be a "test" or at least an approach to deciding whats fair - the IR system has to be fair on both employers and employees offering both incentives for employers to employ workers and offering employees some flexibility in the process as well.

---

It has to be made by both people concerned, and both people will have an interest in benefiting themselves. They should be able to decide what's fair on their own, however an external review can help employees recieve more consideration.

Verte, under the old system employees were not allowed to give up certain benefits for other rewards.

---

I would suggest, if any party disagrees, no agreement should take place. An employee should be able to get all the benefits required to be offered under the previous laws, and they can decide whether or not they stay based on the pay.

Employees certainly were allowed to give up benefits. Few employers offered a system for doing so is all. In Western Australia, many miners were on AWAs before the new IR laws. The difference today is that employers can mandate them for new employees. All they have done is remove choice from workers.

edit: fixed splelling.