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1 votes - 1 average   Windows Live Messenger 9 (2009) (14.0.3921.717)
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CookieRevised
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RE: Windows Live Messenger 9 (2009) (14.0.3921.717)
ethanp, exactly....

And the Messenger leaks are always done by beta testers and not by reporters. Reporters will not have access to such inside information in the first place. Such information is given to beta tester, not to reporters or public. So any "right to publish", "freedom of speech" or whatever other act used as an argument is not valid here.

If a reporter also happens to be a beta tester and he/she recieves inside info then he/she should be smart enough to understand that the info is given to the tester, not to the reporter, and should be kept private. Otherwise he/she is seriously abusing their priveledges as a tester and breaking trust acts and shouldn't be a tester in the first place.

This post was edited on 08-16-2008 at 10:36 PM by CookieRevised.
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08-16-2008 10:30 PM
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vaccination
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RE: Windows Live Messenger 9 (2009) (14.0.3921.717)
Cookie you're missunderstanding the point. Absorbation isn't the one leaking the information, he's not the beta tester who is supossed to keep the info under wraps. He's a guy who's found out some info that someone else has leaked, MS has no control over who he tells that information, he's under no obligation to keep it quiet. So, like a newspaper, he has the freedom to do what he wants with it.

MS shouldn't be punishing people who post content that's now effectively general knowledge, they should be punishing the person responsible for the leak.

Quite frankly it's rude to go around threatening everyone with notices because they can. I'm sure many more people would be willing to take down the content if they were asked nicely.
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08-16-2008 10:37 PM
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CookieRevised
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RE: Windows Live Messenger 9 (2009) (14.0.3921.717)
I understand the point more than you know. And if you own a site/server on which leaked info is published, you are responsible too! It is even listed in the contract you sign when you use a hosting service that they can do whatever they want when you break the contract (by publishing or letting publish leaked private stuff). If you don't agree with it then don't use them as a hosting service. Although you will have a hard time finding a company who would allow such stuff. Absorbation is therefor also responsible for what other people write as a comment on his site (no matter if you have a disclaimer or not!). And his host can take his site down because of it. But that's another (though similar) discussion, which we had before.

---

The thing which is discussed here is the right of publishing private stuff (or rather not having the right) which is given to you as a tester (refering to the top article written by Inky).

quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
he has the freedom to do what he wants with it.
Sorry, but no. I'm very reluctant to say this but this is oh so typical internet-talk. In the real world he has not the right to do whatever he wants with it, even if he got that information from a 3rd party! The info still is and always will be the trade property of MS, and that gives them the right to take action. No matter if I, you or he likes it or not.

quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
MS shouldn't be punishing people who post content that's now effectively general knowledge, they should be punishing the person responsible for the leak.
There is nothing "general knowledge" about the info he posted and certainly not what has been posted by Inky! It is private knowledge. You're twisting things around. The reason you might think it is "general knowledge" is exactly because it got leaked. It became so called "general knowledge", it was never general knowledge to begin with.

And as for the info Inky posted: if he didn't posted that nobody would know about this new design at all anyways. I serioulsy fail to see what general knowledge that is...

quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
Quite frankly it's rude to go around threatening everyone with notices because they can. I'm sure many more people would be willing to take down the content if they were asked nicely.
Rude? Threatening? If you think so..., but I think we all can be glad it just stays with a simple notice. Because they do have the right to take it way further than that. And then what....

----------

Again, I like to take the comparisson with Plus! betas and the info Patchou posts to his testers. Nobody of the current testers is going to publish any information given be him in his emails without his approval. The same probably goes for MDL, SP, etc... And everybody understand this. Why is it that hard to understand this is the exact same thing for stuff posted by MS to its testers?

This post was edited on 08-16-2008 at 11:18 PM by CookieRevised.
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08-16-2008 10:52 PM
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RE: RE: Windows Live Messenger 9 (2009) (14.0.3921.717)
quote:
Originally posted by absorbation
I stick to my principle policy. When a government report is leaked, newspapers freely published its contents.
Governments are supposed to be transparent organisations: they rule the country, and make decisions which affect every single individual in that country, which makes it a special case. Some screenshots of Microsoft's latest product isn't exactly important. In fact, it's a trade secret.

quote:
Originally posted by absrobation
Despite I know it causes great problems when information is leaked, and can be costly to repair, it doesn't mean any company, organisation or government has the right to stop any form of media from talking about it.

I believe the Digital Millennium Copyright Act should only be used for infringement of copyright, and that alone.
The government does not have this right for the above reason. In theory, you are infringing copyright by uploading screenshots. As for "leaked details" I guess it's not particularly covered, but then this information was gleaned from those illegal screenshots. Grey area.

I don't really understand why Microsoft are so up tight about it, but it's their choice, and it should be respect.
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08-16-2008 11:14 PM
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mynetx
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RE: Windows Live Messenger 9 (2009) (14.0.3921.717)
quote:
Originally posted by andrewdodd13
I don't really understand why Microsoft are so up tight about it, but it's their choice, and it should be respect.
If I would be developing a product that is really important in this business sector (yes, it is all about business), I too would be upset about having confidential information being published preliminarily. It would exactly mean that I cannot trust someone of my testers group, which is equal to having a security problem within the company. Any company having someone inside who spreads non-disclosable information (does not even have to do with Web and virtual goods, also refers to industrial companies, such as car manufacturers) - any company with such a person would do their best to find that person and he would have been employee for them for the longest time. Depending on the importance of the spread (leaked) information, they would even consider taking him into court as it is a (rather smaller or bigger) loss for the company to have information under development already available to the end consumers. This can even strike through marketing strategies with big investments, and force the company to start to work again on areas that would have been ready to be released when the other areas were finished, in order to recreate a new invention not already known by the public.

So, this all is basically about a product to be placed on a market with rather big competition. Windows Live Messenger is not the only or the best IM product, but there are ICQ, AIM, and whatever their names are, alongside with those multi-protocol messenger clients and web-based clients (which, by the way, are not authorized by Microsoft and thus abusing their protocol that they reverse-engineered, which, I am sure, is forbidden by the Microsoft Windows Live Terms of Use). So, in order to be able to survive on the IM client/IM network market, Microsoft and the Windows Live Development Team need to create really good (and most important, fresh- and new-looking) software, and therefore it is a rather big beat into the face for them to have the public know their new design before they actually finish it.
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08-17-2008 08:33 AM
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RE: RE: Windows Live Messenger 9 (2009) (14.0.3921.717)
quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

The thing which is discussed here is the right of publishing private stuff (or rather not having the right) which is given to you as a tester (refering to the top article written by Inky).


But as I'm not the tester under the obligations to not post it. I'm not the person who leaked the information, I'm just telling people I know, something that I know.

quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
he has the freedom to do what he wants with it.
Sorry, but no. I'm very reluctant to say this but this is oh so typical internet-talk. In the real world he has not the right to do whatever he wants with it, even if he got that information from a 3rd party! The info still is and always will be the trade property of MS, and that gives them the right to take action. No matter if I, you or he likes it or not.

I fail to see how it's 'typical internet-talk', in the 'real world' I wouldn't be arrested for telling my friend on the street "hey I was reading this article the other day, aparently WLM9 is going to have these features.."


quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

quote:
Originally posted by vaccination
MS shouldn't be punishing people who post content that's now effectively general knowledge, they should be punishing the person responsible for the leak.
There is nothing "general knowledge" about the info he posted and certainly not what has been posted by Inky! It is private knowledge. You're twisting things around. The reason you might think it is "general knowledge" is exactly because it got leaked. It became so called "general knowledge", it was never general knowledge to begin with.

And as for the info Inky posted: if he didn't posted that nobody would know about this new design at all anyways. I serioulsy fail to see what general knowledge that is...


I agree, it wouldn't be general knowledge if Inky hadn't posted it, but again that's Inky's fault, he broke his obligations as a tester, has nothing to do with me. I've just read the article and now know the facts.


quote:
Originally posted by CookieRevised

Again, I like to take the comparisson with Plus! betas and the info Patchou posts to his testers. Nobody of the current testers is going to publish any information given be him in his emails without his approval. The same probably goes for MDL, SP, etc... And everybody understand this. Why is it that hard to understand this is the exact same thing for stuff posted by MS to its testers?
Again, this has nothing to do with people who aren't testers telling other people what they've found out. As I said before, this is because Plus! etc choose reliable and responsible testers. MS should be more careful if they don't want this stuff leaked.

I'm not saying it's right to leak information(which it certainly isn't), but it's not the fault of the public who aren't under any contracts etc, if information gets leaked and they then talk about it.

This post was edited on 08-17-2008 at 10:10 AM by vaccination.
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08-17-2008 10:09 AM
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RE: Windows Live Messenger 9 (2009) (14.0.3921.717)
You realy do not have the right to do what you want with any information you've found when that information is part of a trade secret or similar act. This has got nothing todo with freedom of speech either. Freedom of speech means the right to express your own opinion without fearing prosecuation or being shut down. It does not mean you have the freedom to publish property of a company or publish trade secrets!

You, as a non-tester, may read the articles and may now now the facts, but you may not spread that information any further either, or you'll risk the same 'punishment' as the inital leaker (where 'punishment' is quite often nothing at all; but that does not make it alright to do).

And that is what I mean with the oh-so-typical internet talk. Because more than often (mostly young) people think they can do whatever they want with the information the moment they find it on the net, source often doesn't even matter. And the fact that almost everybody on the net gets away with it increases this. And more than often they will use arguments like "freedom or speech" or "I'm not under nda, so I can" or whatever.

A newspaper may not publish trade secrets when they find some internal paper on a train, left by some employee of some company. The only thing they may publish is the fact that they found the paper, not what the trade secret paper itself said. If a newspaper would publish the actual contents I can assure you that they will be slapped around a bit with a big lawsuit and will loose.

This is kind of the same as a privacy issue. Except for the difference that with a trade secret and such stuff you're not dealing with a person but instead with a thing/idea/object/etc.
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08-18-2008 12:46 AM
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RE: Windows Live Messenger 9 (2009) (14.0.3921.717)
I see what you're saying. I'm undecided whether I think that should be the case or not though. From a company perspective it's a good thing, but hmm *-)
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08-18-2008 08:31 AM
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RE: Windows Live Messenger 9 (2009) (14.0.3921.717)
hii,

wlm 2009 14.0.3921.717 today install

oo my good , pluslive-4.70.334  not authorize, problem ?

solution suggestion ? ( EMERGENCY )

This post was edited on 08-24-2008 at 12:29 PM by mula2001.
08-24-2008 12:28 PM
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RE: Windows Live Messenger 9 (2009) (14.0.3921.717)
quote:
Originally posted by mula2001
hii,

wlm 2009 14.0.3921.717 today install

oo my good , pluslive-4.70.334  not authorize, problem ?

solution suggestion ? ( EMERGENCY )
Solution: don't use leaked betas! Uninstall and go back to using 8.5

This post was edited on 08-24-2008 at 12:31 PM by Sunshine.
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08-24-2008 12:30 PM
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