Shoutbox

We had many debates about this at school last year.

I don't think there is any problem with it as long as the circumstances are correct, and all is done decently and appropriately.

One of the most important things to think about though, is how do you know whether someone is mentally in the correct frame of mind to make such a crucial decision?

I think there should be certain conditions, but providing the conditions are correct and are always met, I don't see a problem.

i completely agree with Tochjo

CookieRevised: I'm sorry. I think my argument was kinda vague.
I was talking when the patient cannot make his decision.

But, when the patient is still alive and wants to die, that means the patient is depressed. The patient's request is a cry for help.
He actually wants psychological counseling, not death.

You know, when we were still children, and we didn't get what we wanted, we would be angry, said that we didn't want to talk to our parents anymore.
That is a temporal decision. We thought shortly. We didn't know why our parents didn't allow us to have it.
So do the patients. The patients think shortly. They don't think how to "figure" it out (I couldn't find a better word). They want instant.

The patient who asks for euthanasia might feel great pain. But, recently, technology has been improving rapidly. With technology in medication, doctors have found many ways to kill the pain.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
There are exceptions on this very important rule; When the patient can't decide for himself anymore. In this case, there must be a written, official approval of the closed family, house-doctor, several other doctors, and sometimes a judge. This process takes roughly 3 months!

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Pretend that I have commited to do something before I die, and I want to do it really bad. Suddenly, I have an accident and I am in coma. Do my family, the doctors, the judge have the right to end my life?

How if I would be conscious after four or five months, but the one-sided decision has been taken?

In my opinion, coma is only a real deep sleep. Unawakened. It is not death. The patient is still breathing although he needs equipments to help him breathing. His brain is still working although the brain might be severely damaged.

Remember, miracle happens...

quote:

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Man wakes from coma after 19 years
By Ben Davey and AP
July 9 2003

A man regained consciousness after 19 years in a coma, greeting his mother who was waiting at his Arkansas bedside.

"He started out with 'Mom' and surprised her and then it was 'Pepsi' and then it was 'milk," Alesha Badgley, Stone County Nursing and Rehabilitation Centre social director, said today.

"And now it's anything he wants to say."

Terry Wallis, 39, had been at the Mountain View centre since a car crash in July 1984.

...

for complete news http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/07/09/1057430247106.html

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If the patient is untreatable, he should wait until the time comes.
Everybody should wait...

The patient might not want to put more burden on his family. So he chooses euthanasia.
Back to my first point, he needs help, especially from the family.
I don't want to be rude, but, if the family doesn't want or is unable to support him and the patient choose euthanasia approved by himself, his family, the doctors and judge, then the family is the murder.

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Originally posted by saralk
Everybody has the right to live, and the right to die.

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I want to correct this.
Everybody doesn't have the right to live, and the right to die.
Everybody has the right to fight for his/her life.
A fetus has the right to live, because fetus cannot make a decision.

Euthanasia for untreatable patients has been abused. Some people who have mental illness, disability, or old age choose euthanasia as a solution, or even maybe asked to.

Do you want to know a real true confession?
I always wanted to die. But I have found the right way now .

I couldn't be bothered reading people's posts, as my eyes are tired (I have been up since 5am!!!!!)


But, I believe it is a good thing, well, as long as

a) it is what teh person wants (like, they are sane, and aren't hopped up on drugs - that alter their state of mind)

b) the person is actually suffering (physically) and it isn't just a "I feel depressed" kind of thing

c) it is fully talked over with the family of the person before hand.

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Originally posted by thekid
But, when the patient is still alive and wants to die, that means the patient is depressed. The patient's request is a cry for help.
He actually wants psychological counseling, not death.

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Excuse me, but that is rubbish... A patient can be in great stress and pain before he dies. If someone is in hospital having great stress and pain, counting the last days and takes this desicion he doesn't need any psychological help, he wants to rest in peace...

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Originally posted by thekid
You know, when we were still children, and we didn't get what we wanted, we would be angry, said that we didn't want to talk to our parents anymore.
That is a temporal decision. We thought shortly. We didn't know why our parents didn't allow us to have it.
So do the patients. The patients think shortly. They don't think how to "figure" it out (I couldn't find a better word). They want instant.

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I can assure you that such a desicion isn't lightly taken, neither by the patient, neither by the doctors...

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Originally posted by thekid
The patient who asks for euthanasia might feel great pain. But, recently, technology has been improving rapidly. With technology in medication, doctors have found many ways to kill the pain.

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No they haven't. Painkillers are still the same old medicines...

quote:

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Originally posted by thekid
Pretend that I have commited to do something before I die, and I want to do it really bad. Suddenly, I have an accident and I am in coma. Do my family, the doctors, the judge have the right to end my life?

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In short: yes, if the right conditions are met.

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Originally posted by thekid
How if I would be conscious after four or five months, but the one-sided decision has been taken?

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A desicion can always be broken of course...

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Originally posted by thekid
In my opinion, coma is only a real deep sleep. Unawakened. It is not death.

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Of course it isn't dead. Yet, someone can be in coma and yet feel great stress and pain... Also, there are many different kinds of coma.

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Originally posted by thekid
If the patient is untreatable, he should wait until the time comes.
Everybody should wait...

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That's the whole point. Should one wait untill the time comes while he is in great pain and stress?
What is more human? Let someone suffer untill the end of his days (no, painkillers don't always work) or should we release him of his pain like he requested and let him sleep painless for ever?

quote:

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Originally posted by thekid
The patient might not want to put more burden on his family. So he chooses euthanasia.

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That is NOT a good reason to do euthanasia.

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Originally posted by thekid
Back to my first point, he needs help, especially from the family. I don't want to be rude, but, if the family doesn't want or is unable to support him and the patient choose euthanasia approved by himself, his family, the doctors and judge, then the family is the murder.

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I don't want to be rude either, but you realy need to look up more info about what euthanasia realy is and about when it is taken...


The desicion of euthansia isn't lightly taken, like I said before. It isn't:
IF (A and B) then "euthanasia". It is a life-desicion.
If all the "paper-work" is done or in process, the desicion can always be retracted for any reason of course. Euthanasia is a good thing and often a human thing todo. If people say "what if he awakens out of a coma", "euthanasia is murder", etc..., they realy need to get more info about what euthanasia realy is.
I'm sorry, but some comments are just rubbish. I hope no-one has to experience the process of all this with a close family or friend or such. Untill you do, do research and stop talking nonsense.
You will know what we're talking about when the time comes when some of your friends are terminal ill and in great pain....

Yes, I have close experience on the matter. I lost already to many friends and familiy. 2 (a friend and my grandfather) wanted euthanasia and I can tell you that such a desicion isn't lightly taken and is always a shock AND a releave to hear. Only for my grandfather the desicion was approved. He died like he wanted, in peace with no pain. My friend died with great pain.

The fraise "unplug the plug" isn't correct by the way. Euthanasia is performed by putting the patient in a deeper sleep then before all the time. In the begin process, the patient sleeps like normal people (8 hours a day) after a while the only thing the patient does in sleeping (and dreaming -> REM sleep) and after a while the patient will die in his sleep... peacefully...

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Originally posted by saralk
When it comes to living, money should never EVER be an issue, everyone should have the right to live. If a family can't afford to keep someone alive, and no-one can pay for it, that is disgraceful. It just shows what a materialistic world we have come to live in.

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Yes, but unfortunately what's the first thing they ask you when you go to a hospital...?

...do you have insurance?....

It's sucks, but is just the way life is...

I'm totally agree with using euthanasia in some cases...if the person is suffering, and there's no real way to ease the pain..

One thing is allowing it and other this is making it easy...even if the paperwork takes 1-2 months....

CookieRevised: Well, I guess we are agree to disagree. i'm happy to argue with you.

I have one thought, though.

I am wondering what people think about euthanasia years centuries ahead.

You know that smoking was and is opposed by many people, especially environmentalists.
Once my cousin told me that his professor agreed to "let" people smoking. The professor said that the population of the world was very high. So the professor thought that why we don't let them die.

I'm just hoping that euthanasia would not become a way to control the population, just as like abortion, which have become a "way" to control the population.

Note: please don't say "rubbish" or anything. Just say "not true" or the others. It's okay for me, but it might be not okay for other people. Many people out there are easily offended (my own experience).
And hopefully, there's no thread about abortion... (or it had been discussed before?)

Cookie...

I have to agree with thekid on this one...

He is entitled to his opinions and we're entitled to agree or not with him...

Just because you think differently than him doesn't mean that his opinion is rubish.

You are not the owner of the truth, you know...

BTW I disagree with you thekid regarding euthanasia... Miracles does happen....but what if the person doesn't want to take that chance...?

Cheers....

Think a minute seriously about this:

When your favorite pet has an accident and he can't be operated anymore and he's in great pain. What do we do? We take em to the doctor and he's put asleep... We all think that's the best thing we can do...

When someone has come to the end of his life. And he's suffering a lot. Nothing can be done anymore. What do you do then? Let him suffer for a few weeks/months until he passes away? Or do we do as he's requested and let him die in peace?


PS: In my previous post I stated facts, not opinions.
And how do I know this? Because I've read extensivly on the subject and talked with people, doctors, even with priests and experienced the emotional rollercoaster twice from up close....

Totally agree with you Cookie...I think the same way...

But reading, and researching and all that doesn't give you the right to call any person's opinion "rubbish"...

That's all I'm saying...