Shoutbox

I apologize then for calling the kid's comments rubbish. But I keep my standpoint. (as the kid will do also of course)...

Euthanasia is something I believe everyone has the right to... as suicide. However, suicide is illegal (before you pick me up on it - attempted suicide is illegal, performed suicide is equally illegal but they won't lock up dead bodies )... isn't euthanasia suicide? So if we legalise euthanasia, don't we have to legalise suicide? Because if we don't, people could be pretending to be in great pain, etc. and just as with abortion, it will become overused. The only other viewpoint is that euthanasia is murder, and we can't legalise murder.

I personally really don't see what everyone has against euthanasia. Actually, I feel as strongly as CookieRevised, although I've never been put in the situation of knowing someone in that condition before.

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Originally posted by thekid
If the patient is untreatable, he should wait until the time comes.
Everybody should wait...

The patient might not want to put more burden on his family. So he chooses euthanasia.
Back to my first point, he needs help, especially from the family.
I don't want to be rude, but, if the family doesn't want or is unable to support him and the patient choose euthanasia approved by himself, his family, the doctors and judge, then the family is the murder.

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Hold on - aren't you saying that euthanasia is simply an easy route to suicide? Euthanasia is not comparable with suicide in any real sense, because it only happens to those in great pain and suffering, not just those in mental trauma (although I admit that should be reconsidered too). Suicide is only for those depressed with life, and although the boundary may be fuzzy, there is a boundary between euthanasia and suicide.

My opinion: legalise euthanasia. Although there will be many debates about where suicide stops and euthanasia begins, and also maybe even court appearances for unsure cases, it is really the patient's right. Anyone has the right to do what they like. You could buy twelve bottles of vodka and get completely smashed, or you could buy thousands of cigarettes and destroy your lungs, or you could go and buy two bottles of paracetamol (two bottles is the legal limit) and overdose, or you could go and work with anthrax, or anything like that, legally (within age restrictions) - but as soon as you find an intended death by any of these methods it becomes illegal. Why?

The one thing that makes me unsure of euthanasia is the implications that we should legalise suicide following on from that. Suicide is different (but related), and we shouldn't really treat them as the same entity. Same with murder. As long as the patient consents (in writing, in front of witnesses, etc.) euthanasia should be legal.

Phew... long reply.

im not sure about the legal rights to it and all that, but i can give my opinion and personal views

If sumone is really sick, say has cancer, and know they dont have too long to live, i think its best to use the option of Euthanasia, since it will stop their suffering

If sumone has a good chance of living and simply wants to die, i wouldnt do it, since it wouldnt just affect them

It likes the same thing with suicide, if you are in the hospital and are in pain, you want to die, but if you are gone, it wouldnt just affect you and it becomes a selfish act

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

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Originally posted by thekid
But, when the patient is still alive and wants to die, that means the patient is depressed. The patient's request is a cry for help.
He actually wants psychological counseling, not death.

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Excuse me, but that is rubbish... A patient can be in great stress and pain before he dies. If someone is in hospital having great stress and pain, counting the last days and takes this desicion he doesn't need any psychological help, he wants to rest in peace...

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Okay, I don't want to go into too many details here, but maybe I'll just give you the blob model so we're on the same plane.



This is basically a representation of what someone is compared to who they think they are. The blob is who you really are, this is your true self. The house is who you think you are, this is your self concept. And half of it isn't even in the blob. So psychologically speaking a person knows very little about himself. And then there's the area of illusion - which is who he thinks he is, but he isn't. Your self concept develops between he ages of 3 and 5, and for the rest of your life you protect, maintain and enhance it. Yes, there are ways to grow - to know more about yourself, however we're talking average joe here.

A person is making a decision based on their self concept. If you don't think it exists, we can test it with human emotions, like say embarrassment. Embarrassment is when someone is very self conscious and has let someone else see a part of their blob they want to pretend doesn't exist. Often they do not attribute that part of the blob to their self concept, since mostly good things go into it. People are hostile about who they think they are, and it impairs their vision to make clear and wise decisions. For instance an anorexic who thinks she's fat will starve herself and throw up trying to loose weight. But if only she realised that she's only fat in her area of illusion and that actually in her blob she is far far underweight! No I do not believe in euthanasia.

Daniel

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Originally posted by Meksilon


This is basically a representation of what someone is compared to who they think they are. The blob is who you really are, this is your true self. The house is who you think you are, this is your self concept. And half of it isn't even in the blob. So psychologically speaking a person knows very little about himself. And then there's the area of illusion - which is who he thinks he is, but he isn't. Your self concept develops between he ages of 3 and 5, and for the rest of your life you protect, maintain and enhance it. Yes, there are ways to grow - to know more about yourself, however we're talking average joe here.

A person is making a decision based on their self concept. If you don't think it exists, we can test it with human emotions, like say embarrassment. Embarrassment is when someone is very self conscious and has let someone else see a part of their blob they want to pretend doesn't exist. Often they do not attribute that part of the blob to their self concept, since mostly good things go into it. People are hostile about who they think they are, and it impairs their vision to make clear and wise decisions. For instance an anorexic who thinks she's fat will starve herself and throw up trying to loose weight. But if only she realised that she's only fat in her area of illusion and that actually in her blob she is far far underweight! No I do not believe in euthanasia.

Daniel

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Uh... blob? Couldn't you come up with a better name for such an arbitrary theory?

Let's say my house is completely outside the blob. No, let's say it's many miles away, in a small barn in Yorkshire. Now let's assume my blob has terminal cancer and is in great pain. This is a pretty screwed blob. It has nothing left to live for, no hope of becoming a nice healthy blob again. It has several weeks left of pain and agony before it finally plasmolises. Should it wait those weeks?

So now let's assume it's not prepared to wait those weeks. What does it do? Have a blobby party, meet up with some blobby friends and get blobby pissed? Don't think so. It's lying there on the blobby bed, with its blob family around it, all wishing it would be out of pain. Let's face it: it's going to die anyway; it's in great pain; it's not a hell of a lot of good just lying there. So now tell me where your house theory fits in?

Oh, and by the way, in the meantime, my house spontaneously blew up, didn't anyone notice? Of course not. My blob didn't care about telling anyone how great it was, it was dying in torture and quite frankly didn't give a shit about bragging about its personality and general blobbiness.

But wait - replace 'blob' with something more suitable - 'human' maybe - and it suddenly makes sense!

Well it's a blob because who you are is fluid and changes rapidly - but your self concept does not change much at all since the age of 5 except to protect, maintain and enhance.

=mek=

if the person genuinely wishes to die, and has considered for a while, then let them, there is no natural law saying we should live until we die of natural causes.... its your life, if you wanna die, then do, if you live your life for other people, then you'll never become the person youre destined to be! i really cant be bothered to go into details, but when i act the way i want, and not how im expected to act, i feel happier!

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
I apologize then for calling the kid's comments rubbish. But I keep my standpoint. (as the kid will do also of course)...

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Thank you, CookieRevised.
I really appreciate that.
Well, at least, I know some of the reasons from people who are pro-euthanasia now.

CookieRevised, we know that we live in different part of world. You live in the capital of euthanasia. That may affect your view, besides your maturity in age and experiences.
Maybe, my view will change someday.

And I'd like to thank Omaaar, who became our mediator, although he didn't have the same view with me.

Edit: I forgot something... for CookieRevised...

I think it really sucks

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Originally posted by ^_^
I think it really sucks

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Can you explain why you think it does?