Shoutbox

Pr0xy, what did I tell you, seriously...

Plus! Fan, all I have to say is:

Think outside the box .

quote:

---

Originally posted by traxor
Think outside the box .

---

Exectly, and thats why I am confused and confident that he himself doesn't understand what he is believing.  He says that there are bigger things in this world then we as humans can understand, but yet, that is the complete oppisate of what that religion says is "true". 

He sounds to me like the guy on the chat station of Grand Theft Auto: III when there is a guy saying stuff like:

"theres a march, people need a voice, everybodies going to be there"...

but in the end, you never find out what the hell he's talking about, but people go anyway, its just curiosity...

what did curiosity kill?

So they don't actually beleive in anything? If they beleive in reality, they just beleive in what can be proven. Its basically the same as choosing not to beleive in religion.

Anyhow, I do beleive this thread should be closed. Religion is a very contrevertial topic and nobody's mind will be changed by arguing.

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoName
Anyhow, I do beleive this thread should be closed. Religion is a very contrevertial topic and nobody's mind will be changed by arguing.

---

Indeed.  I would have closed this thread after reading the first post...

The amount of bullshit that this religion feeds people could fill up my hosts bandwidth...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leo
To me, Christianity is a very contradicting thing. And Christians... First they go on about love and being nice to everyone, and then they are against gays, condoms (I mean, we're in 2005! there's AIDS that can be prevented by using condoms!), abort, etc, etc.

---

Christianity is not contridicting.  and neither is a true Christian that lives his or her life with faith.  A Christian who believes that abortions are wrong(as a form of birth control, not if you were raped), being gay or lesbian is wrong, are not being contradicting.  It says in the bible that those are wrong.  And condoms... O_o well its not the Christians that say condoms are wrong, its the Catholics that said that, along with numerous other things that are not in the bible. 

If your going to hate on somethin, hate on it with the right info

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
I meant that the book was written in ~110 AD

---

It was written in 80-95 AD. So the write, John, who was Jesus' disciple, was still alive. And the last book in Bible written in 96.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
Well, they can't get to that conclusion, because it contradicts with John 20:17. Jezus says he's going back to his father, who is God. So Jezus can't be God.. It's all weird with Christianity being monotheistic (the angels are sort of like super-natural to, just like Satan)

---

Mind if I add the same "fact" like the passage you gave and even it is more "powerful" to show that Jesus is not God?
Take a look at John 14:28.
Whoa, Jesus even said, "the Father is greater than I."

In His humanity, Jesus had made Himself temporarily "lower than the angels" (Hebrew 2:9). In the state of humiliation, He could speak of the Father being greater than He. He said that when He was in human form.

Satan was an angel, a fallen angel to be exact, named Lucifer. Actually, he was also an archangel, the highest order among all angels, along with Michael and Gabriel.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
I wasn't talking about sin, but about sons paying the price for their fathers sin, which sounds ridiculous to me, but not to God. Therefore, I don't like God.

Something nice I once read at some atheists' site, was that Jezus' sacrifice isn't really much of a sacrifice. When he died, he went back to heaven. And heaven == , so for Jezus, dieing wasn't so bad. Now consider an atheist giving his life for someone else. Wouldn't that be a greater offer? The atheist goes to hell to burn forever, because he doesn't believe. Jezus can get back to living in the clouds.

---

Of course it is ridiculous to you. Sometimes it is ridiculous to me too. And I still think that you did not give a nice example how "ridiculous" God is.
Here we go.
Jesus even cursed a tree.
Did the tree make any mistake? You know the answer.
Why do you, or we, think that it is ridiculous?
Because our minds have been distorted with sin.
We see things with our own values, not God's which are holy.

There's a huge, giant, enermous, gigantic difference between Jesus giving His life and an atheist does the same.

Jesus is holy. He took the punishments on our place.
What does an atheist give his/her life for?
He is also a sinner. All of us are sinners.

If a serial murder saved you from bullets, were you gonna worship him?

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
You just said, Jezus == God. So by seeing Jezus, you see God, since they're one and the same person according to you.

---

Correct.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
From the list, select another bible. Alot of the texts are different.

---

Wow, you did your homework, didn't you?
You don't need to give a certain verse, because almost all words are different depending on the versions.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan

Yes, but my father, when he was a kid, had to go to school at Saturdays. Since ~90% of the Dutch population (just a guess, I have no stats) was Christian back then, they were doing something wrong by going to school at Saturdays

---

I believe all policies in your country belong to your country.
I think I said it clearly that most Christians observe Sunday as Sabbath. Don't you think the other ~10% might be in the board also?

---

Btw, it's "Jesus," not "Jezus."
You should value other's name by writing it correctly because you have known which one is the right one.

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoName
Religion is a very contrevertial topic and nobody's mind will be changed by arguing.

---

Exactly. That's why I am only answering his questions to give him more information.

Edit:Oops, forgot to answer your another question

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
So he hates us all? Then why doesn't he destroy the world

---

lol
He would have done long long time ago if He wanted it.
You know the Flood, don't you?
He did it once (destroying all things), but He promised He would never do that again.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pr0xY
I only had to read the first 7 posts before I was thinking "is this kid for real?"

First off, that site looks like it was made by some high school kid that just started learning HTML. 

Second, if your saying all you believe in is whats real, then what did you mean by this?

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
Prove to me that aliens didnt exist?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

Prove to me that trees cant talk?see you can't..some things are just too big for us humans...

---

---

With that I meant that johny's argument

quote:

---

Prove to me that jesus didnt exist?see you can't...some things are just too big for us humans...

---

Was crap, because the same goes for aliens and talking trees

quote:

---

I like the part "...some things are just too big for us humans..."

See, if you believe that, and its a part of this religion (cult), it totally contridicts itself.  This religion "The Church Of Reality" is saying, if its not real, you dont beleive in it.  So if you cant see it, smell it, or taste it, its not real.  This religion "believing what is real", means only believing in what you see, that we as humans should 100% understand what we see and know its true. That is the total Oppisate of having things in this world that are too big for us as humans.  Now either YOU dont know what your talkign about(maybe cause your 13 and I highly doubt you even have rational and logical thinking skills), or this religion is made up (prob by some LSD user(just like the guy who started the Jahova Witnesses))

Before I go on, I want to read what you have to say about that. 

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by NoName
So they don't actually beleive in anything? If they beleive in reality, they just beleive in what can be proven. Its basically the same as choosing not to beleive in religion.

---

No, it's not. If you don't believe in religion, that doesn't mean you believe in reality

quote:

---

Originally posted by thekid

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
I meant that the book was written in ~110 AD

---

It was written in 80-95 AD. So the write, John, who was Jesus' disciple, was still alive. And the last book in Bible written in 96.

---

Even if it was written in 80-95AD, then John would be 70-115 assuming John was 20-30 in 30AD (I don't think Jesus was walking around  with some 5-year old kids). The memory of a 70-115-year-old is very bad. How can you trust that he didn't "forget" something or that he added something which is wrong?

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
Well, they can't get to that conclusion, because it contradicts with John 20:17. Jezus says he's going back to his father, who is God. So Jezus can't be God.. It's all weird with Christianity being monotheistic (the angels are sort of like super-natural to, just like Satan)

---

Mind if I add the same "fact" like the passage you gave and even it is more "powerful" to show that Jesus is not God?
Take a look at John 14:28.
Whoa, Jesus even said, "the Father is greater than I."

In His humanity, Jesus had made Himself temporarily "lower than the angels" (Hebrew 2:9). In the state of humiliation, He could speak of the Father being greater than He. He said that when He was in human form.

Satan was an angel, a fallen angel to be exact, named Lucifer. Actually, he was also an archangel, the highest order among all angels, along with Michael and Gabriel.

---

So you're saying that Jesus was God, but he somehow took away his power so that he was lower than an angel? O_o Then he wouldn't be going back to the father, but then he would become the father again. To me it sounds llike Jesus wasn't the "son of God", or he denied he was on purpose.. but why would he do that?

quote:

---

If a serial murder saved you from bullets, were you gonna worship him?

---

No, but I was talking about Jesus. Jesus was on Earth. But everyone knows that heaven is nicer than earth. Right? So if you were on earth, you'd prefer to be in heaven.. right? So when Jesus went to heaven, that was a good thing for him, because heaven is nice. Jesus knew he was going to heaven. So dying wasn't such a bad thing for him. Do you agree?

Therefore, I don't see why it's so heroic of him to die "for our sins". Someone who would go to hell, and knew it, would prefer to stay on earth.

quote:

---

All of us are sinners.

---

Then what's the purpose? We are going to burn in hell anyway

quote:

---

Wow, you did your homework, didn't you?
You don't need to give a certain verse, because almost all words are different depending on the versions.

---

So how do you know which one is "correct" and "the word of god"?

quote:

---

Btw, it's "Jesus," not "Jezus."
You should value other's name by writing it correctly because you have known which one is the right one.

---

Sorry, in Dutch it's with a "z"

quote:

---

He did it once (destroying all things), but He promised He would never do that again.

---

And why would he keep his promise? Noone is regulating him

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
Even if it was written in 80-95AD, then John would be 70-115 assuming John was 20-30 in 30AD (I don't think Jesus was walking around  with some 5-year old kids). The memory of a 70-115-year-old is very bad. How can you trust that he didn't "forget" something or that he added something which is wrong?

---

I can fully trust it, because it is God's work.
See, you think with your earthly perspective. Earthly logic.
God is all powerful. He can do everything He want to do.
Don't you think that it is easy for God if He wanted to forgive everything we've done by just saying some words?

He only wants people who believe in Him to join with Him in Heaven.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
So you're saying that Jesus was God, but he somehow took away his power so that he was lower than an angel? O_o Then he wouldn't be going back to the father, but then he would become the father again. To me it sounds llike Jesus wasn't the "son of God", or he denied he was on purpose.. but why would he do that?

---

Because God is love.
He incarnated and gave an example for people too.
He knows what it feels to be a human (Hebrew 4:15).

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
No, but I was talking about Jesus. Jesus was on Earth. But everyone knows that heaven is nicer than earth. Right? So if you were on earth, you'd prefer to be in heaven.. right? So when Jesus went to heaven, that was a good thing for him, because heaven is nice. Jesus knew he was going to heaven. So dying wasn't such a bad thing for him. Do you agree?

---

I agree dying wasn't such a bad thing for Him, but the process was. Literally.
Just watch The Passion of Christ.
Jesus' burden was to take all sin people do.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan

Therefore, I don't see why it's so heroic of him to die "for our sins". Someone who would go to hell, and knew it, would prefer to stay on earth.

---

But how long would someone live on earth?
One is either going to heaven or hell for eternity.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
Then what's the purpose? We are going to burn in hell anyway

---

No, if you believe in Him.

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
So how do you know which one is "correct" and "the word of god"?

---

All of them are correct, unless ones that have been changed for the purpose of a group.

What makes them different?
The translations can be separated into 2 groups, the formal equivalence ones (word-by-word translation) and the dynamic equivalence ones (phrase-by-phrase translation).

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
Sorry, in Dutch it's with a "z"

---

Sorry, I didn't know that

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlusFan
And why would he keep his promise? Noone is regulating him

---

Because He wanted to.

---

PlusFan, I think you just choose not to believe everything with Christianity. But, I'm happy because I think we are moving on from one topic to another, that means you accept it.

If you choose to go to hell, it's your choice.
I hope we can meet in heaven though.

lol
This thread is way out-of-topic now.
The title should be Q&A about Christianity by now.

PlusFan, do you want a more effective way of learning Christianity? Just ask someone who can communicate face-to-face with you. I just think that asking and getting the answer from posts are not effective enough.

Random thought of the day: I think we're all free to believe in whatever we want to believe.