Shoutbox

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Originally posted by joelm
Why did you post the e-mail on your blog man? thats just wrong

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because all it says is "welcome to the beta"? it's wrong to leak information sure, and rude to post emails too, but if you were thinking fast, the email didn't contain any information, and it was a personal blog, you might have done the same :/

quote:

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Originally posted by ShawnZ

quote:

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Originally posted by joelm
Why did you post the e-mail on your blog man? thats just wrong

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because all it says is "welcome to the beta"? it's wrong to leak information sure, and rude to post emails too, but if you were thinking fast, the email didn't contain any information, and it was a personal blog, you might have done the same :/

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Yer thats true.

lol... well, just in case someone would have a doubt, please insult me, all of you, and let's keep track of the thread next time someone says everybody on this forum loves me. Sometimes people can get over excited about things/people, I appreciate the good and bad comments I get about Messenger Plus!, as long as they are based on something. If you have a doubt, just search for negative posts on this forum, you'll find plenty as I don't delete them. May I remind you that Plus! now has more than 10M users, out of those you can't blame 100 to jump of joy everytime I release a new version (and it always motivates me anyway ).

Now, as far as leaking the beta is concerned, it's something often only developers can understand. First of all, this is my software, I think I have the right to choose how it's distributed. It's not a matter of who wants to use the software here, it's first a matter of how the author wants his work to be used. Beta versions must not become public because they are buggy, not meant for general public, slow, full of problems, will crash Messenger and will make Microsoft contact me about fixing it.

Distributing beta software has become a fashion and is used by a lot of companies nowadays to justify bugs in their product. Example: Microsoft AntiSpyware. It's been in beta stage for I don't even remember how much time and everytime a big problem is detected, like for NAV recently, they conviniently reply that the software is beta and that people aren't supposed to install a beta product if they can't assume the consequences. Well, what they ommit to say is that they are promoting their beta software on the front page of microsoft.com.

I for one am not about to use the same strategy. I will NOT take you for idiots by releasing a beta product and wash my hands of whatever problem you may get with it. The fact of the matter is that I don't mind if someone more "techy" gets one of my internal betas and uses it. At this point, this person know what he/she is doing. What I don't want however is your friend's friend who is a basic computer user to get the beta because he won't understand what's behind it, he probably won't have any idea what a "beta" is and will consider this version like any other.

I hope I'm making sense for all of you.

well said patchou

Hm patchou, maybe (once of course it's been debugged enough) you could release a little preview release for those "more techy" people, on the forums? (bad idea but maybe a 100+ post only download system or something like that?) Maybe even just a limited feature set of what works to keep people hungry? =p

I suggest you read my other replies in the other topic. It was an honest mistake.

And yes, you're right, it wasn't anything really too personal. I wouldn't have shared anything truly confidential, or any builds.

I've all ready been dealt with, and if Patchou and the others want to talk to me personally, they can do so. All I wanted to do was simply defend myself. So I've said all I can for now.

Was just an accident is all. An oops.

I think it'd be a good idea if the rest of the staff here take my posts from today, and all the posts about what I did, into their staff areas before this gets more out of hand. If for any other reasons, so the topics get back on topic. They can feel free to contact me later to resolve this matter.

i love you patchou you are my "god"


jk

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Originally posted by Patchou
and that people aren't supposed to install a beta product if they can't assume the consequences. Well, what they ommit to say is that they are promoting their beta software on the front page of microsoft.com.

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You are right, people will start complaning and giving msgplus a bad reputation without knowing its a beta(some dont even know what that is )
And i think the 100+ post download will provoke newbies comming here to spam imo.

Well, heres his awnser to your flamming written in a text doccument. Enjoy.

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I'm a loser? I'm emo? I'm 14? I'm gay? I need a shrink? I hate everyone? I'm stupid? I don't respect Patchou?

What you are going to do, is try to read through this so that I may shed some light on my earlier rant. If you don't want to read it, don't, but if you havn't don't comment on my opinion.

See people, thing is you read a small amount of text wich was of my opinion and assume you know everything of me. You virtually quote parts of the sentense that sound incriminating while leaving out the clarification of what I'm talking about.

And this is exactly what I mean: I know that a lot of you would download the leak if you are not a beta tester. Thing is you want it and you are well aware of the risk you are taking, or mabye not aware of the risk but aware a risk is present.

I know it would spread, that's what leaks do. But once again: you left out the fact that I said most complete newbies are not beta testers, sure some of them USE wlm because a friend got invited by saying "I want that!" or perhaps not because they quite frankly (and probably) don't care about MSN. And yes they might want Plus! for their WLM when seeing it on a friends computer but wouldn't that same friend warn "It's a beta, it might screw up." As for the google search to find the leak, good! That's how I would find it. But would the noob who doesn't know shit spend his time searching "Plus! Live for Windows Live Messenger LEAK" on google? I say no. (And yes a handfull probably would, that's far from my point.)

Moving on, yes this is a community (I wont go into how it's a forum after all or compare it to a chatroom, don't worry.) And yes there are nice, smart, educated people who have a very good reason for loving Patch: He spent a lot of time and effort into making plus. Yes it's hard. But don't be an idiot, it's brilliant; optional sponsor package, Okay let's go back to the noobs who accept, and let's pretend only 3% of the people install the optional sponsor, and let's also pretend patchou makes 2$ per installation of the sponsor. (it might not work that way, don't correct me, I don't care if it works another it's probably more profitable because I'm doing a worst case scenario while staying realistic.) Now, there are "more then 6 000 000" downloads according to Mr. Something. Rounding the "more" down to 6 000 000, that's 360 000 $ US, now add the things he sells (shirts, mugs, mouse pads, whatever.) It gives more. This might be accurate or might be extreamly unaccurate, that's beside the point, point is he is not "putting money" into this he's getting some out. Much. And I'm not saying he's ripping people off his plugin is worthy of a price tag with all it's quality, but none the less.

And you think I'm jealous of him? No. I would probably not enjoy being in that position. I also am not some psychopath promoting hate, I am a logical hard headed psychopath promoting frustration over the obsessiveness this community has towards Plus!

And tell me, how would leaking "harm" Messenger Plus!? I know how! The noob installing it, not liking the fact that it crashes all the timem fucks his legit version of Windows into an unstable Linux KDE4 alpha and makes his hard-drive catch fire. But then again, that noob count's for what? 0.0001% of the users? And would probably be reconvinced to download it when the final comes out. And leaking hurts software that has a price tag, a strong reputation of reliability and utility, is depended uppon by major companies and/or small buisnesses. A leak hurts to the makers who's ideas can be stolen and reputation damaged, and to the user/company who depends on it. But Messenger Plus! is free no? Yes. Let's move on. (If I'm missing other ways leaking hurts a beta, don't tell me I don't care.)

And Patchou develops his product alone, imppressive, also something else: So what? It takes longer but he has 100% control of what get's into the product, He doesn't need a team to design all the subparts for his program (WLM/MSN does have a multitude of part's weather it's UI or the Proxy.) It's a simple plugin. (Simple mabye not because it's very good but "just a plugin": yes.)

Me. You do not fucking know me, you do not fucking think like me, you do not fucking care about what I say nor do I care about what you say, I read these posts and smile. Loosen up will you? You know I'm right and if you don't think so it's probably because your better informed then me and once again; so what? Fact remains that it's just a plugin and the people like me who love it would still like tu use it without being some bullshit official tester, without submitting the bugs, just being able tu use it no matter how many times it crashes your msn. And if it's that bad, Hey! I'll uninstall it and wait for the next leak/beta/final release/whatever.

And no I wont step out and show myself and give you my email so you can spam me with your crap and stick your plus-democratic sticks up my ass, nor am I sticking mine up yours. What I'm doing is simply giving out my opinion in an irrational, annoyingly disorganised way. If you don't like it, great, if your offended because this doesn't apply to you, ("Hey! I'm not a brainwashed idiot that worships Patchou! STOP INSULTING HIM.") Then the case is probably that I'm not talking about you but of the other people in this forum.

By the way: chances are I'm forgetting something, I don't care, I might point it out to Drag alter on for him to post it here, but untill then, happy devoteness!
Cheers.

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Edit: he has a quick reply to Patchou and his post:

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I'm not asking you to make public beta's that would be bad and make it seem as you don't really care and just wwant to get it out there etc etc. No that would not be good for you and would be a bad move. I'm asking people to leak it so people like me can enjoy the  buggy mess of your alpha software. That way you don't have to wash your hands and I'm happy.

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Reading this thread is really fun. Not for his (unknown guy) replies but everyone elses. OMG CRITICISM. Maybe, just maybe, if you ignored it, it would go away :----o.

OMG I can't beleive what I'm reading...!!!

I want to see Patchou's response!