Shoutbox

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
TB, if you know as much of Basic as you know about C++ (and the likes, etc) I wouldnt be discussing this with you or wouldn't go deeper in on it. But the fact that I know you simply don't "like" Basic doesn't make Basic crap though.  I deeply, very deeply, respect your knoweldge of C++, but for Basic I think you base your judgement a bit too much on "liking the syntax or not"  than anything else...

VBscript can handle OO just as well as JScript does. As I said VBscript IS more powerfull than JScript and DOES know far more possebilities, types, etc... There is absolutely nothing 'dirty' about it. In fact, it's the opposite!! Todo in JScript what you can do in VBScript you actually need to revert to 'dirty' workarounds in JScript.

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OO? Prove it... We're not talking VB here, as I know VB.NET has OO, yet I'm pretty certain VBScript does not.
I stand corrected, VBScript does have a class keyword since version 5.0.

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Also, the passing by reference in JScript for objects is even a 'dirty hack' on its own as it is in fact NOT passing objects by reference iether. But for convenience and easyness to explain it is said it does, as it is hard to explain otherwise. There are papers written about this and explaining this in very much details with technical details "from under the hood" and by those who actually were involved in creating the language and stuff. If I find those links again I'll post them.

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It's not passing objects by reference indeed, but it does exactly what you'd want it to. So if you can "create" your own ByRef methods, then why say you can't ?
And don't say that'd be a dirty hack. Saying that is a dirty hack, would be like saying that every function you write is a dirty hack...

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Originally posted by TheBlasphemer
I would never recommend VBScript, VB, or BASIC for any other purpose than quick and dirty "programs" that have no need to be reliable whatsoever.

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which is extremely and so typical to say from someone who swears with C++ like languages. (and I know you now gonna reply with "and it is so typical to say that from someone who programs in Basic" ). Basic IS reliable, Basic IS good to learn programming as it has a very easy learning curve, Basic IS not dirty programming...

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For very quick and small programs, BASIC might be reliable. It is, however, extremely difficult to keep a big program in BASIC reliable.

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Again, it is NOT the language used which makes someone a bad habit programmer at all!

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It's not the language that makes you a bad programmer, but BASIC tends to compliment bad programming styles.

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Note: I'm defending Basic in general, yes. But that does NOT mean I don't like C++ or any other language for that matter. I'm not the one who is pinned strait into a certain programming language and thinking all the rest is BS. It is not because a syntax is different in a certain language than what you're used to that the language is crap.

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Are you saying that I pinned right to C++? That's bullshit. I've used QuickBasic for ages, did a few years of Visual Basic, and moved on to C++. I do however still use other languages, like Java (mobile phone development), PHP (web development), and JavaScript (client-side web development), and if necesarry I can pick up any language I want in a matter of weeks.
I'm not saying "the rest" is BS, that's not true. There's a lot of good programming languages around... BASIC is definitaly not one of them though!

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This is exactly the same as all those "C++ is holy"-people proclaiming for years that Basic doesn't even know pointers. This simply shows that those people don't even know what they're talking about as variable handling in basic is exactly based upon pointers and each and every variable you creat in basic IS actually a pointer...

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DWORD dwBlah=0xBAADF00D;
BYTE *pBlah=(BYTE*)&dwBlah;
printf("A part of the number is: %d\r\n",pBlah[1]);

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This might not be a very useful example of pointers, yet I am sure that you can't just do that in VB.
As for VB vars being pointers, that's bullshit. They might indeed just be pieces of memory, as with any program, yet they're not pointers. Each and every variable in VB is a VARIANT type. No more, no less. They *can* contain pointers, yet VB will never treat them as such.

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You have every right to not like a language (aka the syntax), of course, that speaks for itself. But that doesn't mean that the language is crap, dirty, unreliable or whatever.

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I like the language. It's simple and fun. But that still does not mean it's reliable and useful. You might be able to write a program in BASIC, yet I don't think you can call yourself a real programmer if you can only write programs in BASIC.

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It is not because Basic is called "basic" that it is a "basic" language or it is not that the "b" stand for "beginners" that it is nothing worth. The very first basica versions might have been, but since then it has evolved into lots more and is far away from the stuff it was 30 years ago.

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Originally posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC_programming_language

BASIC (an acronym for Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code[1])

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The ONLY thing you can say about Basic is that it, because of all the "blackmaking", it also attracts script-kiddies who proclaim themselfs "experts". And it are those crap codes from those script kiddies which makes Basic having a bad name. However that it not the fault of the language or its syntax but the fault of those stupid kiddies who think they can program when they can popup a box on the screen. This doesn't mean the language is crap, it means those kiddies are crap.

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You've got loads of scriptkiddies like that in C++ that can write a simple MessageBox and think they're a C++ master. Hell, every language has those. But I don't see anyone calling C++ names ?
And I know why, because it's a respected programming language that has proven to be very very useful, in contrast to VB.