Shoutbox

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Originally posted by andrewdodd13
I usually like taking part in these discussions, unfortunatly I missed this post (oops)...

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then welcome

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Originally posted by andrewdodd13
The first thing you have to understand is what the difference between science and religion are:
- Religion is making up stories and then looking for evidence
- Science is collecting evidence and piecing stories together to fit the evidence.

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Religion is not finding evidence to match the stories, religion is faith. You have to believe, because there are no evidences. That's up to you to decide if you believe it or not...

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Originally posted by andrewdodd13
A main point that seems to be in everyones arguments is "What created the creator (or big-bang, etc)?". Well, being human, it's fairly complicated for us to understand infinity. The main way I stop myself from getting confused is like this:

Take a piece of graph paper, and plot the graph y = x^2 + 1. Where does it cross the x axis? No where. No matter how far on you go, either tending to positive or negative infinity, the graph will never touch or end up below the x axis.

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Nice metaphor this can also be seen as God being infinite

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Originally posted by andrewdodd13
My prime example is the evolution of small bacteria into plant and animal life. Most people say, "well how the hell could I have evolved from a plant?". The answer is fairly simple.

In the beginning you have two types of cell: Plant Cells and Bacterial Cells. Plant Cells as most people know, take in CO2 and produce Oxygen. Bacterial Cells (at the time) simply used Glucose and ATP <-> ADP + Pi as a form of energy (glycolysis). This produced minor amounts of CO2 (for the plants). Suddenly, once there was enough Oxygen available, we begin to see the evolution of aerobic respiration, which produces 19 times more energy than glycolysis alone, (via Krebs Cycle and the Cytochrome System), and the beginning of life as we know it begins.

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How did the very first bacteria survived? It needed oxygen from somewhere? Where did it come from? How did the bacteria get so complex? You need alot of parameters to be just right for a bacteria to transform O2 and glucose to CO2 and water, and for the Plant cells the other way around...

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Originally posted by andrewdodd13
I see no mention of this in the holy book of any religion, but you'll see it in lots of science textbooks.

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Perhaps because it is not true... Did you see any prove of it being possible? I cannot believe we evolved from two ver complex things that need eachother to survive. If evolution was true, it would have taken at least a couple of thousand years to create such bacteria, after which the oxygen, that never existed, would have been used... And how would all those molecules that a bacteria exists of come together? chance?

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@Segosa
I do not claim the universe can't exist without a creator... I only infer it.
As for the creator-universe thing, A creator usualy has intelect, a creations doesn't have anything, no intellect no conciousness. even the universe
You can't say "if God exists forever, than the universe can too", You can't compare those two