quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
I still strongly feel that if any option should be given it should be given at the time of Download, not at the time of Installation.
There would be not much difference.
The only difference would be that the setup of Plus! which does include the sponsor, can be falsly reconized by some anti-spyware tools as malicious.
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
I know some of you say Patchou deserves to make revenue from Plus! and that Bandwidth costs money - but there are many other options.
If there are "many other options", Patchou would already have choosen them since a long long time. The truth is that there are no other options which give the same kind of sponsorship. For years and years people have said "there are other options", yet no-one, absolutely no-one, has come up with a concrete working example.
All too often the sponsorship which is used in Plus! is compared to google-ads and the likes and people say "it works for that site, so why wouldn't it work for Plus!". What they forget and even don't know is the huge number of needed resources for a project as Plus!, which can not be compared to a random "google-ad"'ed site or other software.
Again, if there were other ways, Patchou would have used it already.
As for the rest of your arguments, they are well intended, but show that you don't know what it takes to have something like Plus! running and keeping it free. It simply isn't that easy as you let it seem. If it was, everybody would already be a billionair.
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
In fact, I was the only person EVER (to my knowledge) to offer fully version-modifying patches for Monkey Island 1 and Monkey Island 2 (I preferred not to think of them as cracks, because even when removing copy protection the version was still fully 100% a release version) - and I will be bringing them back online! Other people may have offered cracks - but I analysed the differences between release versions. I also made public the easy simple "backdoor" method to enter MI2 without cracking its copy protection (they always start on the same symbols, if you kit enter immediately they'll always display the same two symbols to you - this in effect is a back-door). I still have the original patches, so they will be back (I no longer have the program I made them with though). Their effectiveness today is muted by ScummVM which removes copy protection Anyway.
Not only doesn't this have to do with anything sponsor related. It is also against the rules to advertise for such illegal (yes it is 100% illagel what you do) material on this forum and therefore you're post is reported.
And you spreading those tools for free are, with all due respect, absolutely no reference at all to something like Plus! which is downloaded thousand of times each day, which requires many dedicated sound servers to cope with the billions of sound downloads, which requires many more servers for bandwidth, this forum, etc, etc, etc...
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
Here is a fantastic site - with no advertising (except for their sponsor) and all their freeware is clean, and does not ask you to install 3rd party adware. This site has MANY fantastic programs - not just one, and is clear proof there are many other options:
http://sysinternals.com/
Again, no reference at all. The people from sysinternals do not depend on those tools for a living. It is "only" a side-project, a hobby. Not to mention that sysinternals isn't owned anymore by those people (but by MS iirc).
There is no-one paying Patchou for making Plus!, which _is_ his full-time job afterall. So he does need to make money from something. If the people from sysinternals had to live from those tools, be absolutely sure those tools wouldn't be free at all or that they would come with some advertising in them.
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
And finally Patchou gives you NO OTHER support/donation options aside from the sponsor program
Again wrong... You can support the Plus! project by bying stuff from the online shop for example.
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
"DVD Jon" gives his stuff away because he has a passion for defeating propriety software systems.
Again, he doesn't need to make a living from it. Neither does he requires the amount of servers or resources which Plus! requires.
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
It is time to face facts: those who install the sponsor don't want it on their system.
How do you know that? Sure there are people who don't read the _very_ clear options properly when they are installing something. But there are also many people who do know that they install the sponsor and they want it to install.
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
This poll should reflect how people feel about the sponsor.
Absolutely not.
For example: I could vote for "I do not recommend people to install the sponsor". But that certainly does _not_ reflect how I feel about the sponsor as I do not recommend to install it, but I also do not recommend to NOT install it. I _do_ recommend to read stuff properly and carefully and let the user desite on their _own_...
In other words: your poll is flawed.
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
The questions have been worded precisely - you'll notice there's not a "I specifically discourage people from installing the sponsor" as it's redundant.
The questions are flawed... see previous reply above. The option "I specifically discourage people from installing the sponsor" is certainly not redundant at all.
quote:
Originally posted by Puniksem
I'm inclined to agree with you about the point of having the sponsor program choice when downloading not during installation. this would save alot of accidental installations.
It would make absolutely no difference. Those who don't read the current setup properly and accidently install the sponsor, would also not properly read a website-side setup choice.
In fact, it will make things even worse as the setup which includes the sponsor would have no option anymore to opt out.
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
Just because they have it big and clear doesn't change the reality that they're responsible for bad health. This can be directly related to Patchou's installation package. At least smokers WANT to smoke.
Yes, and people installing the sponsor WANT to install the sponsor.
Just as some stupid kiddie who think it is cool to smoke, ignores the warnings (analogy to people who don't read the options presented in the Plus! installer and thus "accidently" install the sponsor).
In short: your comparisson is wrong
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
If users just click "next, yes, next" without reading, it is completely the user's fault.
That's a matter of opinion. The letter of the law as it stands puts at fault the other party - not the consenting user.
It is extremely clear to what the options are, in plain understandable English....
And according to law, Patchou probably doesn't even need to have the options, the explanation and everything else, as long as the EULA is provided. So he does even more than what the law says...
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
For instance, if I was taken to hospital and the nurse asked me to agree to surgery and referred to it in hospital jargon I didn't understand and then latter I found my legs were removed - I could sue the hospital for it because they had not ensured that I fully understood what I was agreeing to.
If you didn't understood what you were agreeing on you also wouldn't have signed the paper. If you did signed it, you explicitly said that you understood. In case something like this happened (god forbid) and you took it to court, you would actually loose.
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
Patchou is not responsible for the stupidity of users not willing to read.
I beg to differ - he is directly responsible if he takes advantage of it.
The thing is: he doesn't take advantage of it...
If he would, he would already be a billionair living on a remote island and not thinking about supporting or bug fixing Plus!.
I never ever seen a virus writer (the ones who _do_ take advantage of people) saying, hey wait, here is a bug fix, or "next month I'll make that virus compatible with Windows X"...
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
The "stupidity of users"? I have know personal friends who have installed Plus! with the sponsor – and then removed it. I never recommend Plus! to others, and calling my friends "stupid" is simply not on.
By "stupidity" people mean that those who do not read the clear warnings and option were stupid not to do it. They don't say those people are stupid in every sense of the word.
If I bump my car into a tree because I didn't saw it, everybody would call me stupid too, eventhough I might be a smart guy (I hope
).
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
Patchou has provided users with all necessary information regarding this 3rd party adware
Who - after fully understanding everything to do with the sponsor - would install it?
This implies you exactly know how each and every one of those millions and millions of users think?
As a matter of fact, I do install the sponsor, and I do know what it does and also know what it isn't and doesn't.
quote:
Originally posted by Meksilon
Spyware and Malware is when they shove it up your butt without an option and without you even realizing it.
Again - who after fully understanding everything to do with the sponsor would install it?
That's not the issue of that quote. The issue is that many people throw everything on one big pile, while there are very clear and massive differences.
You may have different opinions (of course), but state and discuss the stuff by its true terms.
-----------------
To conclude, you may have some small points here and there but in general your points and thoughts/suggestions seriously lack true facts or are held together with very loose, if not wrong, comparissons.
-----------------
It all boils down to:
If there was an alternative, Patchou would already have implemented it.
Untill there is a real other alternative, the sponsor is here to stay in the way it currently is, no matter how much you 'bitch' about it (wrong choice of words, but still...).
/ 
