Shoutbox

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Originally posted by deAd
Also, you'd better think twice before advertising sites and posting illegal content here. We happen to have a rules page which explicitly states that illegal content and advertising is prohibited.

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I have no problems with the rules - in fact, I've just edited my post to remove the host name to one of LOP.COM's websites (the one which advertises pornography). I was going to do it originally, but as I know how many younger viewers there are here it's only fair to remove it. The "patch" (if you can call it that) I linked to is a grey area of the law, it's not specifically illegal - there is no Monkey Island 2 EULA. And besides, it cannot be used to bypass the copy-protection check (there's another one that does that) like say ScummVM does. Does that make ScummVM illegal? Furthermore, the patch does not modify the executable - it modifies one of the resource files - and it modifies it to a LucasArts-Approved State - I don't think it's illegal, no. Nor do I think the other two pages I linked to are illegal - although you could claim I'm illegally using copyrighted artwork.

As for the rule against "Advertising" - everything you do can be considered Advertising in some way. I'm not trying to advertise, I thought that would be clear to anyone.

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Originally posted by Fanta
I think in all actuality, that most people that complain about the sponsor, have not read the installation of plus! carefully

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What about as I said before how even with the final version of Plus3! if you mistype the silentinstallnosponsor switch it installs plus WITH the sponsor? Isn't that a great DEFAULT?

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Those who know Patchou, know that he spends a full daytime job on Plus!

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Yes, and isn't it interesting that instead of getting paid for that he gets paid for people installing his Adware Sponsor?

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People having to pay for something, or sponsor plus! by watching some advertisements, advertisements that aren't even abusive or of nasty content.

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Not of nasty content? LOP advertises deliberately misleading software, they deliberately override your internet security settings - and that's not nasty? I have all LOP's sites blocked directly in my HOSTS file. If I install Patchou's sponsor it removes them. How is that not obtrusive and nasty? What about how it adds it sites to your pop-up blocker's safe list? That is clearly obtrusive and nasty.

Read the EULA?

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PLEASE READ THIS END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT AND PRIVACY POLICY CAREFULLY AND MAKE SURE YOU UNDERSTAND THEM.  THIS IS A CONTRACT AND BY INDICATING YOUR ACCEPTANCE, YOU ACCEPT ALL THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT AND THE APPLICABLE PRIVACY POLICY.

End User License Agreement
This End User License Agreement ("Agreement") governs use of Circle Developement Ltd.'s ("CiD") software product and related written materials (the "Software") that you are about to install.  The term "Software" also includes any upgrades, modified versions or updates of the Software, which may be provided to you from time to time.  A copy of the Software will be licensed to you as the registered end user. THE SPONSOR SOFTWARE, IF INSTALLED, WILL PROVIDE YOU WITH ADDITIONAL CONTENT, PROMOTIONAL OFFERS, ADVERTISEMENTS AND OTHER WEB BROWSER ENHANCEMENTS BASED, IN PART, ON KEYWORDS IN THE WEBSITES YOU VISIT.  Before you install the Software, you must agree to the terms and conditions of this Agreement. If you do not agree, you may close this window and choose to proceed without the installation of the sponsor software.

1) By accepting these terms and conditions, the Software will be installed on your computer. The search page for your web browsers auto search option and default error page are set to a web page determined by the Software. The Software does not transmit the URL of any website that you or any user visits to a 3rd party server. The Software will deliver popup advertisements on your computer on a regular basis. Installation of the Software may also add bookmarks to your computer and web browser, and shortcuts to the desktop and various menus.  The added bookmarks and shortcuts may be removed manually or via un-installation of the Software.  If incorrect host-file entries are detected for this Software's related domain names, those entries will be removed in order for this software to function properly. 

2) You represent and warrant that you are at least 18 years of age and that you are the owner or are authorized by the owner of this computer to download and install software on this computer.  Because the Software is advertising supported and provides additional content based on keywords in the websites you visit, you agree to provide a copy of CiD's Privacy Policy and this Agreement to any users of this computer and obtain their consent to this Agreement and the Privacy Policy before installation of the Software, unless you can legally accept this Agreement on behalf of all other users of this computer.

3) By accepting this agreement you acknowledge that in order for this software to function properly it must communicate with its host network via the Internet from your computer. You hereby grant your explicit approval for this software to communicate from this computer system through your software firewall or hardware routing system (if present) with CiDs' host network. For users of Windows XP Sp2 this softwares host domain names will be added to your web browsers allowed list for popups.  Because this software will incorporate as part of your Internet Explorer web browser package and will run as part of that process when active on your system, your firewall or router may not prompt you for communication access once this software is installed.

4) The use and presence of the Software is voluntary.  The Software may be uninstalled at any time from your computer.  The only authorized means to uninstall the Software is to use the ADD/REMOVE function on your control panel.  Instructions to uninstall the Software are as follows:
    1. Access your control panel by going to the Start menu;
    2. Select Control Panel;
    3. Choose ADD/REMOVE PROGRAMS; and,
    4. Select MESSENGER PLUS! for removal.

If you encounter any problems during the uninstall process or have any other questions about the Software, please contact us at "support@lop.com". DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE A THIRD-PARTY UNINSTALLER OR ANTI-SPYWARE PROGRAM, INCLUDING AUTOMATED SCANS AND REMOVAL SWEEPS. The use of a third-party uninstaller or anti-spyware program may damage the Software and/or otherwise constitute a violation of this license. 

While you may choose to uninstall the Software from your computer at any time by following these instructions, some third party applications may attempt to delete, disable, or modify the Software with or without notice to you.  You agree that you will only uninstall the Software from your computer by following the instructions set forth above and you will not initiate, permit, authorize or assist any third party or application to remove the Software from your computer, or disrupt its operation or the operation of any other user. 

5) Acceptance of this Agreement may be indicated by downloading and installing the Software.  Bookmarking to a web page whereby this Agreement is by-passed shall constitute an implicit acceptance of the foregoing terms herein set forth for any copies downloaded or installed by such by-pass.  You, or any user, may terminate this Agreement at any time, by removing the Software from your computer through any one of the above described methods, and destroying any other copies of the Software.

6)  This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the United Kingdom.  This Agreement will not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods, the application of which is expressly excluded.  If any part of this Agreement is found void and unenforceable, the balance of the Agreement shall remain valid and enforceable according to its terms.  You agree that the Software will not be shipped, transferred or exported into any country or used in any manner prohibited by the laws, restrictions or regulations of the United States or the laws of any other country, which may apply.  This Agreement shall automatically terminate upon failure to comply with the terms and conditions and you shall immediately delete and uninstall all copies of the Software upon such termination.  This Agreement may only be modified by a writing signed by an authorized officer of CiD. 

7)  The Software may display advertisements or additional content that contain links to third party websites and such links to third party websites should not imply an endorsement or approval of CiD of the material on such third party websites.  These third party websites are not under any control of CiD and CiD is not responsible for the content available on such third party websites.  Accessing any such third party websites shall be at your, or the users own risk.

8)  The Software is owned by CiD and its Suppliers, and is protected by United States Copyright Law and International Treaty provisions.  You agree to not copy, modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or make any other attempt to discover the source code of the Software, CiD's technology and methodology for delivery of additional content, the content of any and all of CiD's and Suppliers communications with the Software, or the content stored on CiD's servers.  You will also not rent, lease or sublicense the Software.  You also agree to install the Software in a single location on a hard disk or other storage device and will only copy the Software for backup purposes and not for the purpose of using an additional copy.  You agree to display all proprietary notices or copyright notices that appear on or in the Software.  You agree to not access or use the Software other than through the graphical user interface provided with the Software.  You agree to not make any derivative works of the Software and that any and all such modifications or enhancements to the Software are the sole property of CiD or its Suppliers. 

9) CiD grants you a non-exclusive, limited license under the terms and conditions of this Agreement to only install and use the most current versions of the Software for the purposes described herein and in the Privacy Policy, including use of the Software only in the manner for which it was designed as provided in any documentation and only for personal and non-commercial purposes.  You agree to not allow any use of the Software by any party who has not agreed to the terms and conditions of this Agreement. 

10) CiD may from time to time, either automatically or through other means, distribute an update to the Software and/or may replace the Software with new versions, and may also modify the Software. CiD may require you to review and accept a new license agreement and CiD's then current privacy policy when a new version of the Software is released and installed on your computer.  The installation of new software may occur automatically or through other means.  Notwithstanding the foregoing, CiD and its Suppliers and associates have no obligation to make any subsequent versions or updates of the Software available to you. 

11)  DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY.  THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS-IS," "WHERE IS," WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, AND ANY USE OF THE SOFTWARE IS AT YOUR OWN RISK.  CiD AND ITS SUPPLIERS DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, TITLE, ACCURACY, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS.  CiD AND ITS SUPPLIERS DO NOT AND CANNOT WARRANT THE PERFORMANCE, OR RESULTS YOU MAY OBTAIN BY USING THE SOFTWARE OR DOCUMENTATION, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS, OR THAT THE OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, OR THAT DEFECTS IN THE SOFTWARE CAN BE CORRECTED.

12)  LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.  BY ACCEPTING THESE TERMS AND CONDITIONS, YOU WILL RELEASE AND DISCHARGE CiD AND ANY OTHER PROVIDERS, OWNERS, CREATORS, DISTRIBUTORS, SUPPLIERS, BUSINESS ASSOCIATES, ADVERTISERS AND CUSTOMERS ("THE SUPPLIERS") OF THE SOFTWARE FROM ANY AND ALL LIABILITY WHICH MIGHT ARISE.  IN NO EVENT SHALL CiD OR ITS SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY INDIRECT DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOST PROFITS, LOST BUSINESS, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION, OR LOST OPPORTUNITY, OR ANY INDIRECT,  CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR SPECIAL DAMAGES OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES INCLUDING LEGAL FEES, ARISING OUT OF THIS AGREEMENT OR CiD'S PRIVACY POLICY OR YOUR INABILITY TO USE THE SOFTWARE, EVEN IF CiD OR ITS SUPPLIERS HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, OR FOR ANY CLAIM BY ANY THIRD PARTY.  CiD AND ITS SUPPLIERS ALSO DISCLAIM ALL LIABILITY WITH REGARD TO YOUR VIEWING OF ANY WEBSITES THAT MAY BE LINKED FROM ANY CiD SUPPLIED MATERIAL OR ANY ADDITIONAL CONTENT PROVIDED BY THE SOFTWARE.    SOME STATES AND JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR SPECIAL DAMAGES OR THE EXCLUSION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR LIMITATIONS ON HOW LONG AN IMPLIED WARRANTY MAY LAST, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. IN ANY EVENT, CiD's LIABILITY TO YOU SHALL NOT EXCEED US$10.00.

13)  By downloading and installing the Software, you agree to all the terms and conditions of the CiD's current Privacy Policy, attached to this Agreement.

14)  During the process of accepting this Agreement, downloading the Software or using the Software, you may be offered the opportunity to download and install software from third party software vendors ("Third Party Software").  Any download or use of Third Party Software shall be governed pursuant to license agreements or other arrangements between such third party vendors and yourself and is subject to different license agreements or other arrangements.  CiD, in its sole discretion, may elect to sell, resell, or license any Third Party Software. CiD disclaims any responsibility for or liability related to any Third Party Software associated with the Software. Any questions, complaints, claims or other communications related to Third Party Software should be directed to the appropriate vendor.

PRIVACY POLICY
Your privacy is very important to Circle Developement Ltd. ("CiD").  CiD provides you with the software product (the "Software") free of charge or at a reduced cost in exchange for your agreement to accept advertising and other promotional messages delivered by CiD and third parties to your computer based in part on the keywords in the websites that you or any user of the computer visits.  The additional content may include advertisements, promotions, links to third party websites or other materials delivered to your computer that match your interests, based in part on keywords found in the websites that you visit.  Your interests are matched to the additional content based on keywords collected from the websites you visit.  The keywords are provided to CiD's servers or third party servers, which deliver the selected additional content to your computer in response to the keywords.  For example if you visit a website related to travel, CiD or its Suppliers and advertisers may determine the website you are currently visiting is about traveling and present an advertisement that promotes the sale of airline tickets using various browser enhancements and pop-up windows. This Privacy Policy only applies to the Software and not to any additional third party software downloaded in conjunction with the Software or in response to additional content provided to you or a user of the computer.

INFORMATION COLLECTED BY CiD
CiD and the Software DO NOT COLLECT ANY PERSONALLY IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION about you, such as your name, address, telephone number or e-mail address.  CiD DOES NOT transmit or record the website address (URL) of websites that you visit while you browse the web.

INFORMATION CiD COLLECTS INCLUDES:
• Standard web log information and computer settings such as your Internet Protocol (IP) addresses, operating system, CPU speed, browser type and version, screen resolution, time zone selected and the version numbers of some of the software installed on your computer.
• Your Software ID is a numeric identifier that is generated by the Software and the Time and Date that you accepted this Agreement and Privacy Policy.  This Software ID does not include any personally identifiable information, such as name, age, address, telephone number or e-mail address.
• A historical record of content and advertisements delivered by the Software, and the response rate associated with the content and advertisements that was delivered to you through the Software application.
• Information provided to any CiD employees, contractors, or technical support members may be stored on CiD servers in archives of CiD's support and customer service department, but such information will not be associated with the information collected or stored in association with your Software ID that may be provided to third parties or the provision of additional content.
• While you are browsing Circle Developement owned web sites, as is true of most Web sites, we gather certain information automatically and store it in log files. This information includes internet protocol (IP) addresses, browser type, internet service provider (ISP), referring/exit pages, operating system, date/time stamp, and clickstream data (links you click on the page).
• All of the above information submitted to us by your browser or the Software is considered anonymous information and to the extent we share such information with third parties, it is not traceable to any particular user and will not be used to contact you by e-mail, telephone, or mail. We use this information to analyze trends, to administer the site, to track users’ movements around the site and to gather demographic information about our user base as a whole.

SOFTWARE AUTO-UPDATE
The Software has both client and server-side components. The Software servers communicate with your computer frequently to ensure that you have the most recently released version of the Software. You acknowledge that CiD or parties appointed by CiD may from time to time provide programming fixes, updates and upgrades to you, including automatic updates to the Software, through automatic electronic dissemination and other means. You consent to such automatic updates and agree that this Privacy Policy will apply to all such updates. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any new features that augment or enhance the Software application, including the release of new Software, shall be subject to terms of this Privacy Policy.

SOFTWARE CONFLICTS
Conflicts may occur with other software applications that may already be installed on your computer. The Software may report back to our servers what applications are running on your computer and this information will be used to help resolve these conflicts whenever possible. This will make the Software more reliable and provide you with products and services that are compatible with your current computer settings. In most cases CiD will only transmit this information back to CiD's servers if a software conflict has been detected. If you are having problems with a software product you have installed you may contact CiD's support department at support@lop.com for help.

WHAT HAPPENS IF CIRCLE DEVELOPEMENT LTD. CHANGES ITS PRIVACY POLICY?
By installing, using, or copying the Software you acknowledge that you have read, understood, given your informed consent to, and agree to be bound by this Privacy Policy. This Privacy Policy is subject to change by CiD at any time. Notice to you shall be made by adding any changes to this Privacy Policy document, which will remain posted at www.lop.com/privacy.html. You agree to review this Privacy Policy from time to time for changes and updates. Notice of any revisions to this Privacy Policy shall be considered effective when transmitted to the Software or posted on http://lop.com/privacy.html .

COOKIES
A cookie is a small file, often containing an anonymous unique identifier. Cookies can be sent to your browser from another computer and stored on your computer's hard drive, or they can be generated by the Software or website and can be stored on your computer.  Each server in communication with your computer can store and read only its own cookie. The Software and web pages uses cookies for the following purposes:
• To display the most relevant advertising based on your interests and surfing activities.
• To identify the affiliate that introduced you to Software, so we know how many introductions that particular affiliate made, and how much to pay that affiliate for the introduction.
• To identify which version of the Software is on your computer.

IF YOU WISH TO DISABLE COOKIES IN YOUR WEB BROWSER
In Internet Explorer, on the Tools menu, click Internet Options.
On the Privacy tab, move the slider up for a higher level of privacy.
Select Block all cookies. Cookies from all Web sites will be blocked and Existing cookies on your computer cannot be read by Web sites

SOFTWARE SECURITY MEASURES
The Software uses encrypted data packets to communicate back and forth with its host server. The host server has security measures in place to attempt to prevent the loss, misuse and alteration of the information under our control. All information is for CiD's accounting and registration purposes only. Only employees and affiliates of CiD and its licensor will be authorized to have access to varying degrees of this information.

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Where does it disclose that these changes are going to be made?

And here...

Why can't it say:
I am over 18, Install the sponsor program (thank you!)
I refuse to give my support, or are under 18 years old, don't install the sponsor.

And here:

There is a back button and a cancel button.

But here there is not, and many novice computer users may not catch on to the "X" in the corner being the only way to close the dialogue without accepting the sponsor EULA.

Furthermore the You represent and warrant that you are at least 18 years of age text is not highlighted, and it has to be scrolled down to get to it - there should be a more obvious warning for minors.

The Software will deliver popup advertisements on your computer on a regular basis.

No mention though that it will edit your HOSTS file without your permission to allow this if required to continue to serve the pop-ups - the closest you ever get is: this softwares host domain names will be added to your web browsers allowed list for popups this is insufficient.

Because the Software is advertising supported and provides additional content based on keywords in the websites you visit, you agree to provide a copy of CiD's Privacy Policy and this Agreement to any users of this computer and obtain their consent to this Agreement and the Privacy Policy before installation of the Software

Again - although it tells you to - it has no print button, no save eula button... it gives no help to the end user to follow the direction.

Then there's the fact that there is no entry in Add/Remove Programs just for the sponsor - you have to do it from Plus!'s. This is again, insufficient.

DO NOT ATTEMPT TO USE A THIRD-PARTY UNINSTALLER OR ANTI-SPYWARE PROGRAM, INCLUDING AUTOMATED SCANS AND REMOVAL SWEEPS.

The fact that it is incompatible with software recommended by advanced users and system professionals is absolutely terrible.

Acceptance of this Agreement may be indicated by downloading and installing the Software.

I don't think so.

Bookmarking to a web page whereby this Agreement is by-passed shall constitute an implicit acceptance of the foregoing terms herein set forth for any copies downloaded or installed by such by-pass.

I certainly do not think so.

You, or any user, may terminate this Agreement at any time, by removing the Software from your computer through any one of the above described methods, and destroying any other copies of the Software.

There's only one.

This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the United Kingdom.

What utter rubbish, it is governed by the laws in the country in which it is installed. It has no jurisdiction to change this.

Imagine if when you bought a new car "the safety features shall be rated according to the laws of China, where it was made"!

This Agreement will not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods, the application of which is expressly excluded.

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If any part of this Agreement is found void and unenforceable, the balance of the Agreement shall remain valid and enforceable according to its terms.

Wrong again. If a user reads the EULA understanding it have void clauses in it at the time of agreeing to it, the user is in effect agreeing to a void EULA.

You agree that the Software will not be shipped, transferred or exported into any country or used in any manner prohibited by the laws, restrictions or regulations of the United States

What's this? US law now not UK? And if the program cannot be used in certain countries - the installer should check the user's country.

This Agreement shall automatically terminate upon failure to comply with the terms and conditions

This clause contradicts the previous one:

If any part of this Agreement is found void and unenforceable, the balance of the Agreement shall remain valid and enforceable according to its terms.

Failure to abide by voided clauses according to the EULA itself voids the EULA. I've never seen an EULA with so much crap in it.

This Agreement may only be modified by a writing signed by an authorized officer of CiD.

No, it is modified to comply with applicable laws.

The Software may display advertisements or additional content that contain links to third party websites and such links to third party websites should not imply an endorsement or approval of CiD

I disagree, they are directly responsible for which sites they choose to advertise - and as has been already said, they choose to actively promote 3rd-party Malware.

CiD is not responsible for the content available on such third party websites.

So who is responsible for what "CiD" advertises then, if not CiD?

The Software is owned by CiD and its Suppliers, and is protected by United States Copyright Law

Nice pun, but I clearly remember where it said it was governed by the laws of the UK!

You agree to not copy, modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, or make any other attempt to discover the source code of the Software, CiD's technology and methodology for delivery of additional content, the content of any and all of CiD's and Suppliers communications with the Software, or the content stored on CiD's servers.

AGAIN! Clean-room reverse engineering is not a grey area of the law - it's legal. They cannot prohibit this in an EULA.

You agree to display all proprietary notices or copyright notices that appear on or in the Software.

Apparently that makes using the old /SilentInstall switch a breach of the EULA, Patchou.

CiD grants you a non-exclusive, limited license under the terms and conditions of this Agreement to only install and use the most current versions of the Software

And now how do they expect this of users, when users aren't even informed as to which version they're currently installing?

You agree to not allow any use of the Software by any party who has not agreed to the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

So why does it install system-wide for ALL users?

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS-IS," "WHERE IS," WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND

It's difficult to believe that disclaimer is legal if they know it's incompatible with leading anti-adware/spyware programs.

By downloading and installing the Software, you agree to all the terms and conditions of the CiD's current Privacy Policy, attached to this Agreement.

Rubbish, the ONLY legal way to agree to all the terms and conditions and the privacy policy is to read it, to understand it and to agree to it.

The sponsor EULA is rubbish.