wiiii, let's mingle....
About the stuff Pr0xY has said:
nice way of taking things waaaaaaaaay out of context. Some Europeans (and others) also do know what they are talking about and they certainly do not see 'just' propaganda, on the contrary! I start to believe that you're looking at all those things in a very subjective way without seeing the big picture (or at least the real big picture instead of the so called 'conspiracy' picture). Not everything, but many things you've said I find bull shit too, but that's a matter of opinion I suppose....
About the stuff Discrate has said in the beginning of the thread:
Same 'bull shit' at first, but quite often put in such a way that it is flaming, name calling, insulting, etc. And I think _that_ is the reason why you got a neg. rep, thus because in the way you always vent your 'opinions'. Thus not so much that you don't agree with Pr0xY, but because in the way you always seem to need to insult people at some point if you don't agree with them.
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So, talking about opinions...
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks, The car industry (And OnStar [deflate tires, stop a car anytime, track you]), the appraisal industry (if you even know what that is), taken over 4/5th of the media (they are currently shoving tons of propaganda at the citizens), wants to have total control over the internet and NOW health care (which they legally can not do, it's unconstitutional). Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't.
sorry but lol
To give an example: "Taking over the car industry"? lol. If you wanna put it that way I'd say it's about time somebody '
takes over' the car industry since it has an extremely big lobby and way too much power over what the governement does. So, if someone tries to do something about it you say they are "taking over" as if it is a bad thing. On the same time when that same guy fails in doing something because of maybe a big lobby, you say "they are corrupted and lying and owned by the lobby"; it's seem to be always the guy's fault.
In other words, you don't look at the big picture and you're blinded by your own personal opinion and beliefs and distored views about stuff and the guy in person. Not objective at all, not even in the slightest way. So who is being bombarded with propaganda in one way or the other?
Many people in the world (the majority actually) see Obama doing good stuff. And yes, of course he makes mistakes. Who doesn't? As Wacky has said, I'd love to see you running a governement or even a local administry and would love to see how you would cope. I'm fairly sure you wouldn't get very far with the kind of views you have.
Then again, maybe I'm wrong, but at least give him some credit as he is doing very well overall. And of course, some desicions aren't going to be nice for some people. We hate it too when somebody increases the taxes over here or whatever, but in the end it is supposed to be better for everyone.
It's like, everybody wants improvements, but nobody wants to cut in their own backyard, so let's be very selfish, and without caring about the bigger picture, let's bash the guy trying todo something about it.
quote:
Originally posted by andrey
Comparing Obama's policies to things that happened in Nazi Germany is bullshit. To follow up in your logic, Bush built a network of secret CIA prisons where people were abducted and detained without indictment and subjected to torture (waterbording, sleep/sensory deprivation, other "enhanced interrogation techniques"). [= concentration camps?]
I know Americans sometimes have a pretty distorted view of what fascism/socialism/nazism is, but what Obama is doing now is far from it. He would still be considered a moderate/right-wing politician in most parts of Europe.
Having a universal healthcare system goes without saying in modern industrialized countries, and although no system is perfect, it's better than what the US currently has.
Fearing that the US will turn into a socialist country is completely irrational, fearing that it'll become a fascist state/dictatorship under this president is just as irrational.
Couldn't have said it better.
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Do you not get it? It's a yes or no question, Black or white. There is no agree or disagree. We were discussing whether Obama has or has not lied. The subject has no room for self opinion. Yet you continue to argue the idiotic point that theres room for grey....
Errrr.... it is all politics. Politics is _never_ black or white. It is always gray! There is no one perfect solution because with everything you decide or do, there are always two sides and some disadvantages. Political stuff is _not_ science and will never be! It are only extremists which see everything in black and white. Even the statement itself "Is Obama lying?" (in the political context) shows a lack of political insight imho.
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
Many Americans have a great understanding of what fascism/socialism/nazism is. Many new immigrants from socialist countries also recognize the path Obama is taking the country & can identify it as socialism in the infant stages.
Socialism, yes maybe. But then what? Socialsm isn't entirly bad. And every form has its advantages/disadvantages. But socialism is in no way comparable to fascism or nazism. If you think it is, you clearly do not know what they are or at least have a very distorted view of them.
quote:
Originally posted by Pr0xY
The United States of America does not need to have their government provide health care for them. Our Constitution does not give the federal government the power to manage it either. Our system was working very well until the corruption of government got involved, passed regulations & restrictions (which at the time benefited the politicians). Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.
Working very well? Sure, but for whom? There are some good things to say about it, but the majority of the world has always seen the current health care system in America as not something very well. And, as an outsider, it is good to see somebody finally trying to do something about it because it very clearly was going in the wrong way. It works very well for certain (rich) people, but there are a hell of a lot of problems for all the other people. But yes, reforming something is always painfull for some individual people, but in the end it usually turns out better for everybody.
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