Shoutbox

Joa, Killow, I've just read the thread. To explain it all you are best to learn the protocol. Only in this way you truly can understand how it all works and how it is related (also note that since MSN Messenger 7 many changes concearning these beheviours have changed, and changed again)... All this said, the people who already posted in this thread explained it pretty well, although it may seem very confussing though. But then again, as long as you don't know the protocol by hart it indeed is confussing (note: I don't know the protocol by hart either )...

Conclussion, there are some methods to detect blocking, but they depend on the knowledge of the interpreter of the signs. And even then, they aren't always accurate, reliable or even don't always work. Because of all this, it is extremely hard to make a decent computerized, non-human interpreter (aka a program, block checker) to detect and analyze this kind of stuff.

The only people who could truely explain it in great detail (but then again, it may sound like "Chinese" to most of us) are the ones who study the MSN protocol and work with it every day. I'm thinking of people like Inky, etc...

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Originally posted by Anubis

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition

true... to obtain good results, change your display picture regulary though

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Actually, that gave me an idea, if the plugin instantly changed your display picture to a random image for 5 seconds, it would show the contact up.

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nice example of how theory will not always work in practice. eg: The sole fact that a connection can take more then 5 seconds to be established; the fact that not everybody has MSN Messenger 7 in the first place; the fact that not all people show DP's; etc... etc...

There simply isn't a reliable way of block detection; there are only small unreliable signs to be interpreted in the correct context and with the proper knowledge.

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Originally posted by haydn
I am assuming that I am not blocked because i sometimes see this contact online, instead, I think this is occuring while the contact is Appear offline. I dont know if or how this is related to blocking a person but it can fit in above

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nah, with "openconvo" you never get false notifications. like i stated in my other post, you do not get notifications when the contact opens your window while just changing their status to  or signing in offline.

like m_e said the protocol session isn't open when you choose to simply appear offline.

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition

don't, you can't rely on that, because seriously, who opens a conversation with someone you have blocked? ¬¬

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it still could happen though.

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Originally posted by Anubis
In this case it doesn't matter, if the contact looks like they are offline and opens a window (even if it is an unreliable result from something else) it means that they are really online. So in this case, that factor works to an advantage.

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exactly. though i didn't get false notifications while blocked (when they changed their dp etc.)

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Originally posted by Anubis
Actually, that gave me an idea, if the plugin instantly changed your display picture to a random image for 5 seconds, it would show the contact up.

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i dunno. i tried this -> me and contact had no dps at all, and i still got "openconvo" notifications eachtime they opened my window after they blocked me.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
There simply isn't a reliable way of block detection; there are only small unreliable signs to be interpreted in the correct context and with the proper knowledge.

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it is not so hard to tell. all you have to do is notice the "open window" message while they appear offline. and i mean, openconvo can actually log the events eachtime your window has been closed or opened. you can just search for the contact you think that blocked you in the logs and see if they appeared offline at the time you got a notification.

i don't think it is unreliable, since it does show a pop-up -> everytime the window has been opened. you don't get false notifications at all. the only thing is that it is limited, since it all depends on the contact who blocked you -> whether or not they open your convo window.

try it yourselves. with the current msn (like i said 7.0.0777 was the only version i had any problems with), and windows messenger it works everytime.

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Originally posted by Joa

nah, with "openconvo" you never get false notifications

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Yes, you do. OpenConvo is just like the others, it will now give notifications when a contact who is using MSN Messenger 7 or above has their client on and it tries to download your display picture.

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Originally posted by Joa
(when they changed their dp etc.)

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It's when you are blocked and change your display picture, does the other person apear that they've blocked you.

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Originally posted by Anubis
Yes, you do. OpenConvo is just like the others, it will now give notifications when a contact who is using MSN Messenger 7 or above has their client on and it tries to download your display picture

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what i meant was that you don't get false notifications in the sense that -> when a contact chooses their status to appear offline, and opens a convo window with you, you will not get notifications.

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Originally posted by Anubis

It's when you are blocked and change your display picture, does the other person apear that they've blocked you.

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yes, i know this. it is possible (and happens occassionally to me when i am not blocked by the contact, or have blocked them)
but all i'm saying is while testing this while being blocked, i did not get notifications when i changed my dp, or they changed theirs.

sorry if i was unclear, but i do undertand the concept

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Originally posted by Joa
i dunno. i tried this -> me and contact had no dps at all, and i still got "openconvo" notifications eachtime they opened my window after they blocked me.

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i just want to correct myself, with one of my contacts (while disabling the dp from showing) i did not get any notifications.

so the conclusion is that it is best to have a dp displayed.
i mean, i tried this with 20 of my contacts (i have no life ) and it only happened with 1. so it does happen, although gathering from my results.. quite rarely.

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Originally posted by Joa

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
There simply isn't a reliable way of block detection; there are only small unreliable signs to be interpreted in the correct context and with the proper knowledge.

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it is not so hard to tell. all you have to do is notice the "open window" message while they appear offline. and i mean, openconvo can actually log the events eachtime your window has been closed or opened. you can just search for the contact you think that blocked you in the logs and see if they appeared offline at the time you got a notification.

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It simply can mean they have the status "appear offline", it doesn't nessecairly mean they are blocking you...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
It simply can mean they have the status "appear offline", it doesn't nessecairly mean they are blocking you...

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read the thread... the protocol session isn't opened when on appear offline

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Originally posted by Millenium_edition

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
It simply can mean they have the status "appear offline", it doesn't nessecairly mean they are blocking you...

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read the thread... the protocol session isn't opened when on appear offline

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Then how does Stuffplug allow you to start a conversation in Appear Offline mode?

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Originally posted by haydn
Then how does Stuffplug allow you to start a conversation in Appear Offline mode?

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StuffPlug-NG doesn't, it will let you with blocked contacts if both have the conversation window open, however in that case the protocol is in full effect, just one contact reads you as offline. And yes, in MSN, you can open a window with a contact when at appear offline, but you can't use this to communicate with the other person in anyway.

ok so in the end... it is true that block checking IS possible > although limited because it largely depends on the person who blocked you (whether or not they open your convo window). although, even than there is a possibility of getting a notification, when they don't open your convo window, but the client requests a dp.

and the information you get is accurate, because the notifications you get can only happen if the person who blocked you is online.

so i can say that block checking is possible than right?

Well the point stands that if a user is offline, but you see them opening a conversation window with you, it has to be that they blocked you.

But that still is one of the worst ways of a block checker really, if someone blocks you, I'd really doubt they'd wanna open a conversation window immediately.

And when you appear offline, your client doesn't request for DP's so   that's out of the question.