Shoutbox

^^ thats a smart one..
like add 2 red ?? infront of the name of the contact then add (!N) so it will show the question marks indicating they have msgplus.. and the (!N) will show theyr nickname..

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Originally posted by haydn
I personally would like to see the secret message/handshake implemented also but I can see the problems it has the capacity to cause.

As for a symbol in the contact list, Plus! has a little function called Custom names I know it will be tedious to go through the entire contact list to add a symbol/letter/whatever to each contact but it would only have to be done once and it makes for an easy check.

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I already use Custom names for 90% of my contacts.  As far as I can tell, this does not help with checking.  I'm open to correction though

I understand that the custom names cant help you with the checking for Plus! but it can be used for remembering if Plus! is installed after you have checked once. If you see the first post of the thread this was asked for.

eg

P - John          <<<these people have Plus! so you add a P (or somethign else)       
P - Mark          <<<<
         Bill          <<< No Plus!

Of course you Dont have to put a P or anything... even a coloured . or * would be noticible

But it would have to check everytime you saw them online. Not everyone only uses one PC. People also travel etc.

oooo sounds like a fab idea to me but i have no idea how to do it but you brainy lot should be able to do it

quote:

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Originally posted by haydn
I understand that the custom names cant help you with the checking for Plus! but it can be used for remembering if Plus! is installed after you have checked once. If you see the first post of the thread this was asked for.

eg

P - John          <<<these people have Plus! so you add a P (or somethign else)       
P - Mark          <<<<
         Bill          <<< No Plus!

Of course you Dont have to put a P or anything... even a coloured . or * would be noticible

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quote:

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Originally posted by Emjaybee
But it would have to check everytime you saw them online. Not everyone only uses one PC. People also travel etc.

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Exactly.  This solution isn't really practical.

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Originally posted by Unknown...
The technical aren't the main concern, the privacy is.  Personally I sit amongst those who think by installing Plus! you should really be allowing people who satisfy the following:
a) Have Messenger Installed
b) Have plus installed
c) Are accepted on your contact list
d) Are not blocked
...to see you have Plus installed (here comes the critical bit) via a SILENT HANDSHAKE.  It should be presumed that having Plus! installed (amongst all the other conditions listed above) would allow this.  The same underlying core principle is applied to Messenger itself.

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It shouldn't be presumed at all!!!

First of all, Plus doesn't do anything hidden. And that is a very good thing. Remember that certain people are still calling Plus! spyware, don't give them any reason to continue or start up on that again...

Second, "The same underlying core principle is applied to Messenger itself". Messenger Plus! never used the protocol or hacked in to it. There is a massive difference in what can be done inside a main program or a plugin made for that program.

quote:

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Originally posted by Unknown...
This is a hard issue to place.  A better solution is needed, but (ultimately) compromises will need to be made.

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The issue isn't hard at all IMO... Simply ask the contact or use the /ping command...


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In all fairness, all this time we rant about it I eventually could have checked 500 contacts by hand.

This issue is almost the same as requesting for a massive automatic custom name setting or something, in the context of automating things. Simply don't be lazy and ask the user or use ping...

As for "yeah, but they could be using a different computer with no plus! installed". So?? To be honest, what is so critically massivly important that you really really need to know if they are using Plus! at the moment or not, and this for all your contacts all the time???

TBH, there is no reason what-so-ever that you _must_ know from second to second what your contact is using (there is nothing in Plus! that really needs your contact to have Plus also). The only reason is your own curiosity...

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If you find the /ping command a bit cryptic towards the contact that may not have Plus! or don't know what that ping-pong means, then simply make a quicktext with the command in it and an explaination and use that instead of /ping...


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In my book, a secret underlying handshaking is a very massive big no-no as long as there are still people dishing Plus! for being spyware or even calling it dodgy software which can mess up the messenger connection. Stuff like secret handshaking stuff are exactly the things which cause people to say such stuff, weither it is true or not...

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

< all that Cookie said - it's above me, read it people! >

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Like I said Cookie, there are two sides to the story.  I’m stating how I believe the system should work.  I know you are a firm believer of the other side.

I believe it should be presumed.  Why?  Because it is logical.  I presume that when I use Messenger it will tell me who is online, their status, contact name, msn space, etc.  By the same token I presume people can see these same things of me, if we are to get into a conversation.  Plus! as an extension to messenger should also behave in the same spirit.

Plus doesn’t do anything hidden, which is a good thing.  There are limits to everything though.  If the above criteria I mentioned are met, I don’t see it as an invasion of privacy.  Those who know me know I take privacy and user control very seriously.  However everything within reason needs to be considered.

I understand the distinction between plugin and program.  I was speaking broadly.

Ok, you’re right.  I’ll ask each and everyone of my contacts, every time they sign in mind you, if they are using Plus!.  I’m sure that won’t get old fast.  Or I’ll manually click the ‘ping’ button over and over again.  Again, that won’t get old either.  Sigh.

It’s not a matter of being lazy.  It’s a matter of being practical.

So overall you’re saying there is no reason what-so-ever to know if my contact is using Plus!?  Using that logic why even have the ‘ping’ command as part of Plus! features?  As long as there is a reason, it should be presented in a more user-friendly and practical manner.  There are times that it is handy to know if someone is using Plus!.  It’s more than just curiosity, and more frequently needed than invoking a clumsy ‘ping’ command over and over.

Yes Plus! has taken some flak in recent times.  It all comes down to people and education.  I don’t think we should dismiss something just because of this.  Have I stopped using Microsoft AntiSpyware?  No.  Do I agree with Microsoft AntiSpyware false-positive reading of Plus!?  No.  Instead I use the software and educate people on how to use it properly.  This is a perfect example of people not understanding what their computers are telling them.  Regardless of fault, to think that MSAS (or any program for that manner) is going to magically work without interpretation is silly.  To not use it is even sillier – you’re not teaching people anything, and in effect helping to fuel the fire.

I dare you to find one contact who is constantly installing Plus! and removing it again... There is no need to _constantly_ check if your contact has Plus! or not...

Yes, it is curiosity and nothing more IMO. There is until now not a single practical use for an automated ping (if it was even possible).

It should add the Plus! logo on your contacts names somehow if they are found to have Plus! installed.