Shoutbox

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Originally posted by Lou
Nathalie, I think you should at least read your post before posting it; you can't fully support English and then at the same time only partially support English. As for the website, you contacted testers about things recently and never got back to any of us (whether it was questions, interest, etc.). Thanks for caring.

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Hi Lou,

You are right about the English.  I meant that English is the source language for the site. I should have phrased it differently, but did mean that English was one of the languages supported. 

Regarding the private messages from testers and translators, I'll be getting back to you all, one at a time. I apologize for the delay, but I was waiting for a few more responses. 

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
So, I don't see how this is "exactly what many people were afraid of". Some people were/are afraid that Messenger Plus! would become payware, or riddled with adware. Although you have a point that it is under the same trusted branding of "Plus!", it is something different.

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I think people are more afraid of the loss of users due to the myth of adware etc due to all the adverts. We have already had threads on the forum asking about the Game of the Month button and why it is there when the user did not authorize it.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
that is exactly why Nathalie made that post. So why give the impression that you accuse Yuna for not getting the community involved? That announcement was _exactly_ made to get this community involved in the first place :/

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I may have missed something, but nowhere in the post does it say they are looking for feedback. Ok, so there have already been PMs to Nathalie from testers and translators as I would have expected, but nowhere in the post does it ask for it. Even in the latest post acknowledging the feedback does it say anything will be done, just that they will receive a response.

As for the games at plusfun, I've seen too many people ripped off by this method of being automatically subscribed and having to text to unsubscribe, but being charged until you do. It all started with the "crazy frog" craze several years ago. You don't see them anymore in the UK as it was found most of them were dodgy and not doing what they said they would... Straight away people's trust in these games could be shattered,

Adverts shown on the site are deceiving (as most adverts used to be)... My IP has been selected as a potential winner. No sign that it is an advertisement as more and more honest companies are starting to do.

The website appears to be copyright 2010 Search Plus! - That in my opinion should be Yuna or Messenger Plus! If it's all going to be part of a brand, like Live, then the copyright shouldn't belong to a particular section of the brand, but the main product.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Note also that the amount of players of those games already shows that they are on the right track with something like Plus!Games, at least for now. What the future will bring, nobody knows I guess (although a lot of such online game portals seem to spring alive in a burst with a massive user count before the active user count settles down)...

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I set up a gaming web site at college which had more users than I've currently seen online... That was mainly using a phpbb (I think) forum with an arcade. It's not the quality of the games for most people, but the fact it's something new and exciting that promises rewards.

I am now getting even more untargeted adverts including download accelerators, translators and PC repair tools. Most adverts I've seen are the types people have no learnt to avoid so I hope Yuna got a good deal with the Advertising company (HIgh CPC or a decent CPI rate)

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Originally posted by Prject K Finally Revealed

Messenger Plus! will now be distributed with the Kaspersky Internet Security program and sold for a minor price. Of course, current users will receive a proper discount

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/facepalm

Proper discount had better mean free...

EDIT: If this is going to be an April's Fool Joke, it would be in really bad taste considering the current mood the community seems to mostly be in.

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Originally posted by Spunky

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
So, I don't see how this is "exactly what many people were afraid of". Some people were/are afraid that Messenger Plus! would become payware, or riddled with adware. Although you have a point that it is under the same trusted branding of "Plus!", it is something different.

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I think people are more afraid of the loss of users due to the myth of adware etc due to all the adverts. We have already had threads on the forum asking about the Game of the Month button and why it is there when the user did not authorize it.

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True, but those are very rare.

To get things correct, by "people" do you mean the testers/translators/you/me/etc or the general public?

If you mean the testers etc you might be right it is a concern, but if you mean the general public, I don't think the public lays awake of how many users Plus! might or might not loose because of misplaced assumptions that Plus! wouldn't be free because there is a 'related' site which shows ads or where you can pay for more games. In that case it makes more sense for them that they lay awake about Plus! being free or not because that would 'hurt' them in their own pocket.

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Originally posted by Spunky

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
that is exactly why Nathalie made that post. So why give the impression that you accuse Yuna for not getting the community involved? That announcement was _exactly_ made to get this community involved in the first place :/

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I may have missed something, but nowhere in the post does it say they are looking for feedback. Ok, so there have already been PMs to Nathalie from testers and translators as I would have expected, but nowhere in the post does it ask for it. Even in the latest post acknowledging the feedback does it say anything will be done, just that they will receive a response.

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Originally posted by Nathalie
If you're familiar with the site, here’s a quick overview. Let us know what you think!

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Sounds perfectly like asking for feedback to me...

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Originally posted by Spunky
As for the games at plusfun, I've seen too many people ripped off by this method of being automatically subscribed and having to text to unsubscribe, but being charged until you do. It all started with the "crazy frog" craze several years ago. You don't see them anymore in the UK as it was found most of them were dodgy and not doing what they said they would... Straight away people's trust in these games could be shattered,

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Well, you do have a point though. As a matter of fact, in Europe (or it might be in some individual European countries, not sure atm) some laws have been created since then because of such abuse of such subscriptions.

But as long as it is clear how to unsubscribe and that you can unsubscribe at any moment, there is nothing abusive or illegal (or imho, dodgy) about it. It would be the very same as so many other subscriptions on magazines etc where you have an annual automatic payment (until you unsubscribe 3 months in advance or something etc). The moment there is some illegal behaviour, be sure to report it and I'm 100% sure Yuna will take actions. Because that wouldn't be good for their rep either.

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Originally posted by Spunky
The website appears to be copyright 2010 Search Plus! - That in my opinion should be Yuna or Messenger Plus! If it's all going to be part of a brand, like Live, then the copyright shouldn't belong to a particular section of the brand, but the main product.

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Didn't noticed it yet. But yeah, that is a bit strange...

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Originally posted by Spunky
I am now getting even more untargeted adverts including download accelerators, translators and PC repair tools. Most adverts I've seen are the types people have no learnt to avoid so I hope Yuna got a good deal with the Advertising company (HIgh CPC or a decent CPI rate)

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Except for the "you've won 10 credits (... when you log in as a facebook user)" ad I don't see any ads on that site. What ads are you talking about? Are you sure they are coming from the website and not from the toolbar for example?

[OFF TOPIC]

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Originally posted by Spunky

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Originally posted by Prject K Finally Revealed
Messenger Plus! will now be distributed with the Kaspersky Internet Security program...

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CookieRevised's reply to [split] Project K finally revealed

[/OFF TOPIC]

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Except for the "you've won 10 credits (... when you log in as a facebook user)" ad I don't see any ads on that site. What ads are you talking about? Are you sure they are coming from the website and not from the toolbar for example?

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There's at least 2 banners per page on plusgames.com. Running ad blocking software maybe? Although I'm not really concerned about that, it's usual for flash game site, most of them are more ad-heavy...
http://www.flashgames247.com/
http://www.miniclip.com/
http://www.addictinggames.com/
http://armorgames.com/

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Except for the "you've won 10 credits (... when you log in as a facebook user)" ad I don't see any ads on that site. What ads are you talking about? Are you sure they are coming from the website and not from the toolbar for example?

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Ok, fair enough with the "Let us know what you think" comment, but it's not the most obvious thing (No excuses for me not seeing it though)

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
To get things correct, by "people" do you mean the testers/translators/you/me/etc or the general public?

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I meant mainly the community; we all care about the success of Plus! and are heavily invested in it ourselves, not monetarily but with all the time and effort we have put in to give it a good name and make a good experience for the end-users.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Well, you do have a point though. As a matter of fact, in Europe (or it might be in some individual European countries, not sure atm) some laws have been created since then because of such abuse of such subscriptions.

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My general feeling about this is that these companies all but went into hiding when these new rules came in. I have seen one advert in the last 2 years (the other day actually), which could potentially mean that these subscriptions are not working anymore...

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Originally posted by Spunky
I have seen one advert in the last 2 years (the other day actually), which could potentially mean that these subscriptions are not working anymore

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The Netherlands seems very different in that regard. Although crazy frog is something of the past, ads for ringtones and mobile applications are being advertised daily in a subscription model on almost every national TV channel. Although I did notice these days those ads usually start later in the evening. Don't know if that's because of new laws around it, or just because those ad slots are cheaper, or because of the self regulation they are attempting around these type of services.

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Originally posted by Menthix

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Except for the "you've won 10 credits (... when you log in as a facebook user)" ad I don't see any ads on that site. What ads are you talking about? Are you sure they are coming from the website and not from the toolbar for example?

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There's at least 2 banner per page on plusgames.com. Running ad blocking software maybe? Although I'm not really concerned about that, it's usual for flash game site, most of them are more ad-heavy...
http://www.flashgames247.com/
http://www.miniclip.com/
http://www.addictinggames.com/
http://armorgames.com/

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Nope, I don't have any ad blocking in any way... strange....

EDIT: both spaces are blank... although I now notice I do have script errors on that page too... maybe it is related...

(click to enlarge)

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Regarding those phone subscriptions and ads for them on TV and other media: you have them a lot in Belgium too, but you are always able to unsubscribe from them (without additional costs) at any time. In fact, every ad and every sms you receive explicitly states how to unsubscribe (which started to happen after those new laws I refered to). So I can only hope that those 3rd parties which offer those subscriptions do the same proper thing. If not, I'll be shouting out too...

Plus! Will always be free? Ok, fair enough.. if Plus! stays the same we wont be effected, but all these 'extra' Plus! sites make Messenger Plus! look bad.

It's labelled as dangerous and dodgy by a lot of people/companies. Making sites like this is just going to make things a hell of a lot worse. Ok, the games sites are fine but I think everyone in this thread thought the same when they first saw it.

Especially when they have the right to give our personal details to to other companies for marketing purposes.

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Originally posted by Privacy Policy
Our database of personal details (however we collect these details) is used by us, and third parties acting on our behalf, for administration and marketing related purposes.

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Originally posted by Chrissy
these 'extra' Plus! sites make Messenger Plus! look bad.

It's labelled as dangerous and dodgy by a lot of people/companies. Making sites like this is just going to make things a hell of a lot worse.

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This is the alternative to CiD popups though, which is the real reason why Plus! is being "labelled as dangerous and dodgy by a lot of people/companies".

CiD was a company nobody ever heard of, which (if you chose to install the sponsor) would pop up pure advertisements randomly while you were browsing the internet.
PlusGames is powered by Come2Play and the toolbar is powered by Conduit. Both are legit companies, with funding by external investors, and known and used by many other respected companies. Unlike CiD if Come2Play/Conduit are doing dodgy things we'll know who is responsible and they'll be more motivated to do something about it since they investors and other customers to think about too while CiD as an anonymous company didn't have a reputation to care about.

It's not perfect, and certainly a work in progress. But I prefer this method over CiD. I think it can go somewhere if people can voice their criticism in a constructive way, and Yuna (and their partners) are willing to listen and take action on real issues. Perhaps using this over CiD Plus! can eventually even get rid of the label put on by certain companies. Does Meebo have a bad label for using Come2Play? Does TechCrunch have a bad label for having a Conduit toolbar?

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Originally posted by Chrissy
Especially when they have the right to give our personal details to to other companies for marketing purposes.

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Originally posted by Privacy Policy
Our database of personal details (however we collect these details) is used by us, and third parties acting on our behalf, for administration and marketing related purposes. We can sell..

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Where did you get that from? Can't find it in the PlusGames policy, neither in the one of Messenger Plus! itself (available in the Plus! installer) or the one of the toolbar.

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Originally posted by Menthix
Does TechCrunch have a bad label for  having a Conduit toolbar?

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No, they don't. However, Ad-Ons for Windows Live Messenger all have a dodgy reputation anyway. Look at smiley central, runrocker etc etc. Just because Plus! is legit, being in a market that is know to be 'dodgy' is risky anyway. Not to mention this Plus! sites.

If someone installs a dodgy MSN/WLM Add-on (we all know there's LOADS out there) and it ends up in bad consequences that user will take a lot of persuasion to install another add-on like Plus!

You gotta see my point, and I don't usually give it.