Shoutbox

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Originally posted by Pr0xY

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Originally posted by Discrate
You negged me for not agreeing with you, infact i didn't really not agree with you, i asked you a few questions and you neg repped me for it rofl. Another "you're an idiot, if you don't agree with me" person on the forum

All you are is one of those people who are like "OHHH IT'S A BIG CONSPIRACY THERE LYING!" "THEY ARE TRYING TO DO HEALTH CARE REFORM TO MAKE HEALTH CARE BETTER, WE HAVE TO STOP THEM!!!"

Pretty funny actually. Thank god i don't live in america where even the smallest thing triggers mayhem. People are calling obama a nazi just because he wants health care reform rofl.

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No. You received a negative rep rating because of ignorant, immature & unintelligent comments like this.  Man up & deal with it.

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Man up and deal with the fact that i don't agree with you and there is other people that don't agree with you. It's obvious you can't deal with the fact that other people don't agree with you, hence why you are acting like this. I didn't even really disagree with you, i just questioned your statement. You can't call someone ignorant when what you are talking about isn't fact. I could call you ignorant for believing all this "lies" bullshit.

I would love to see what would happen face to face if someone disagreed with you, you seem like one of those people who would throw a tantrum because they don't agree with you. As i said in my pm to you, you're one of those "If you don't agree with me, then you are an idiot, because im right about everything"

People are allowed to disagree with you, you don't have the right to hurl abuse at them for disagreeing.

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
The smallest thing? 'Just because he wants health care?  Do you honestly not know of all the other issues? Apparently not.  You haven't heard about the policies he's trying to pass.  The day to day things he says that contradict what was said the day before.  The amount of debt we're now in because of him.  Or how the horrible policies of his administration go against America's founding documents.  They completely ignore the checks & balances.  Do you honestly not know this?  Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks, The car industry (And OnStar [deflate tires, stop a car anytime, track you]), the appraisal industry (if you even know what that is), taken over 4/5th of the media (they are currently shoving tons of propaganda at the citizens), wants to have total control over the internet and NOW health care (which they legally can not do, it's unconstitutional).  Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't.

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Comparing Obama's policies to things that happened in Nazi Germany is bullshit. To follow up in your logic, Bush built a network of secret CIA prisons where people were abducted and detained without indictment and subjected to torture (waterbording, sleep/sensory deprivation, other "enhanced interrogation techniques"). [= concentration camps?]
I know Americans sometimes have a pretty distorted view of what fascism/socialism/nazism is, but what Obama is doing now is far from it. He would still be considered a moderate/right-wing politician in most parts of Europe.
Having a universal healthcare system goes without saying in modern industrialized countries, and although no system is perfect, it's better than what the US currently has.
Fearing that the US will turn into a socialist country is completely irrational, fearing that it'll become a fascist state/dictatorship under this president is just as irrational.

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Originally posted by andrey

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
The smallest thing? 'Just because he wants health care?  Do you honestly not know of all the other issues? Apparently not.  You haven't heard about the policies he's trying to pass.  The day to day things he says that contradict what was said the day before.  The amount of debt we're now in because of him.  Or how the horrible policies of his administration go against America's founding documents.  They completely ignore the checks & balances.  Do you honestly not know this?  Obama is compared to the Nazi's because he has taken over the Banks, The car industry (And OnStar [deflate tires, stop a car anytime, track you]), the appraisal industry (if you even know what that is), taken over 4/5th of the media (they are currently shoving tons of propaganda at the citizens), wants to have total control over the internet and NOW health care (which they legally can not do, it's unconstitutional).  Yeah tell me how that does NOT resemble the Nazi Socialist Party? You can't.

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Comparing Obama's policies to things that happened in Nazi Germany is bullshit. To follow up in your logic, Bush built a network of secret CIA prisons where people were abducted and detained without indictment and subjected to torture (waterbording, sleep/sensory deprivation, other "enhanced interrogation techniques"). [= concentration camps?]
I know Americans sometimes have a pretty distorted view of what fascism/socialism/nazism is, but what Obama is doing now is far from it. He would still be considered a moderate/right-wing politician in most parts of Europe.
Having a universal healthcare system goes without saying in modern industrialized countries, and although no system is perfect, it's better than what the US currently has.
Fearing that the US will turn into a socialist country is completely irrational, fearing that it'll become a fascist state/dictatorship under this president is just as irrational.

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Exactly. I am glad you summed it up like this, this is what i wanted to say but of course i can't be bothered plus i wouldn't be able to put it in form like that

This is this conspiracy crap i was talking about.

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Originally posted by Discrate
This is this conspiracy crap i was talking about.

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Again, stop pretending you are more aware then me of all the legislation & bills the American government is trying to pass.  If you actually look at the stuff Obama, his administration, the congress and Obama's elected advisors are saying... you wouldn't be calling it 'conspiracy crap'

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Originally posted by Discrate
People are allowed to disagree with you, you don't have the right to hurl abuse at them for disagreeing.

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Do you not get it?  It's a yes or no question, Black or white. There is no agree or disagree.  We were discussing whether Obama has or has not lied.  The subject has no room for self opinion.  Yet you continue to argue the idiotic point that theres room for grey....

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Originally posted by andrey
Comparing Obama's policies to things that happened in Nazi Germany is bullshit. To follow up in your logic, Bush built a network of secret CIA prisons where people were abducted and detained without indictment and subjected to torture (waterbording, sleep/sensory deprivation, other "enhanced interrogation techniques"). [= concentration camps?]

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Yep, Bush is fucked up too, I won't argue against that.  What's worse is that Obama is continuting to follow his path. Guantonimo bay was kept over, despite Obama promising to close it as soon as he became president.

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Originally posted by andrey
I know Americans sometimes have a pretty distorted view of what fascism/socialism/nazism is, but what Obama is doing now is far from it. He would still be considered a moderate/right-wing politician in most parts of Europe.
Having a universal healthcare system goes without saying in modern industrialized countries, and although no system is perfect, it's better than what the US currently has.
Fearing that the US will turn into a socialist country is completely irrational, fearing that it'll become a fascist state/dictatorship under this president is just as irrational.

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Many Americans have a great understanding of what fascism/socialism/nazism is.   Many new immigrants from socialist countries also recognize the path Obama is taking the country & can identify it as socialism in the infant stages.

If you truly look at what Obama believes, who he studied under, who he has appointed as advisers... you would worry too. 

Often people forget the real reason for Nations.   The United States of America does not need to have their government provide health care for them.  Our Constitution does not give the federal government the power to manage it either.  Our system was working very well until the corruption of government got involved, passed regulations & restrictions (which at the time benefited the politicians).  Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.   

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
Guantonimo bay was kept over, despite Obama promising to close it as soon as he became president.

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you do realize that these ARE things he wants but there are quite many obstacles before reaching such goals.. honestly, I'd love to see you as the President of the United-States.. I'd love to see how well you would succeed. By the way, he still is trying to close it. They plan on doing it by January. Maybe it won't happen by then. Maybe it'll take longer.. so what? he's doing that he can. ''Mr Obama ordered the detention camp to be shut on his second day in office but administration officials have run into numerous legal, political and diplomatic hurdles.'' but ya.. lets just ignore that part because he hasn't succeeded yet.

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
Many new immigrants from socialist countries also recognize the path Obama is taking the country & can identify it as socialism in the infant stages.

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perhaps.. I do agree that his is a little on the left side but he's not at the complete end of the left wing. He's simply trying to care more for the middle class and lower. Since you don't seem to care about the people who have less money and can't afford going to the doctors, you're probably a wealthy person. Does that mean you have to be selfish? I truly hope not..

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
Only 15% of Americans do not have health insurance, and not all of those people are without because of cost or lack of availability.

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my facts tell me there were 47 million Americans without it in 2008. That's not just like 5 million.. it's 47 million. And don't tell me it's not because they can't afford it.. even a friend of mine from the States was refusing to go see a doctor because it's too expensive.

anyway, point is, there are two sides to all of this. You can't just be closed minded and only want to see one side of everything. Yes, there are things he hasn't done. Some he hasn't succeeded at, some which are in progress but he has accomplished some of them. Don't ignore that part.

I found a website that's pretty interesting. Is it reliable? I don't know.. maybe. But it's still interesting:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/browse/

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
The United States of America does not need to have their government provide health care for them.

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but please don't try to speak for everyone in your country. That's just being very ignorant, close-minded and selfish.. and no, your country isn't better than any other so you don't need to say the whole thing 'United States of America'. It's like me saying 'Canada of North America of America' no.. just the United States is fine (and yes.. I do know its USA, you just don't need to spell the whole thing out)

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"Do you not get it?  It's a yes or no question, Black or white. There is no agree or disagree.  We were discussing whether Obama has or has not lied.  The subject has no room for self opinion.  Yet you continue to argue the idiotic point that theres room for grey....
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I am disagreeing with your opinion that he lies about tons of things. So there is disagree and agree. And that's all that your writing is, your opinion. Stop acting like what you write is fact and everyone thinks it.

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Originally posted by Discrate

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"Do you not get it?  It's a yes or no question, Black or white. There is no agree or disagree.  We were discussing whether Obama has or has not lied.  The subject has no room for self opinion.  Yet you continue to argue the idiotic point that theres room for grey....
"

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I am disagreeing with your opinion that he lies about tons of things. So there is disagree and agree. And that's all that your writing is, your opinion. Stop acting like what you write is fact and everyone thinks it.

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It's not like asking "Do you think abortion is right or wrong?".  That question has room for personal opinion.  Asking "Has Obama lied?" is a simple yes or no question where  agreeing or disagreeing with opinion is not possible.  You can't disagree with documented lies (Obama quote vs. actual facts) And I've asked you what topic you've wanted me to show you proof on, yet you don't answer me. 

First, Obama promised he would close down Guantanamo Bay as soon as he became President.  It's now 10 months later & Guantanamo Bay is still open & taking more prisoners.

Obama promised to negotiate Health Care Reform on C-SPAN so America could have a real say on the reform... but they all ended up having the meetings behind closed doors. The first bill was written by a special interest group & the second bill was written by corrupt politicians with small details int he bill that benefit his lobbyists & others that contribute to his political campaigns. 

http://www.breitbart.tv/naked-emperor-news-obamas...-mayhem-it-caused/

So here's a few articles you can educate yourself on.

Fact-Checking the President on Health Insurance
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203...9501904118682.html

CBS exposes Obama administration lies about blocking Fox News (Obama trying to shut down the media)
http://www.examiner.com/x-22564-Des-Moines-Conser...-blocking-Fox-News

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Originally posted by wacky

you do realize that these ARE things he wants but there are quite many obstacles before reaching such goals.. honestly, I'd love to see you as the President of the United-States.. I'd love to see how well you would succeed. By the way, he still is trying to close it. They plan on doing it by January. Maybe it won't happen by then. Maybe it'll take longer.. so what? he's doing that he can. ''Mr Obama ordered the detention camp to be shut on his second day in office but administration officials have run into numerous legal, political and diplomatic hurdles.'' but ya.. lets just ignore that part because he hasn't succeeded yet.

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Or Obama (like many previous President's) could simply use the power of "Executive Orders".

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Originally posted by wacky
perhaps.. I do agree that his is a little on the left side but he's not at the complete end of the left wing. He's simply trying to care more for the middle class and lower. Since you don't seem to care about the people who have less money and can't afford going to the doctors, you're probably a wealthy person. Does that mean you have to be selfish? I truly hope not.. 

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/sigh. I'm all for assisting the lower class & I personally volunteer a lot of my time.  But there comes a point when we need to acknowledge the fact that the "Welfare state in America" is severely taken advantage of & in the long run ends up doing more harm than good.  Check out the book "When Helping Hurts: Alleviating Poverty Without Hurting the Poor."
50 years ago the poverty rate in America was at roughly 23%. By  1973 the poverty rate was cut in half, decreased to the all time low of  nearly 11%.  Around 1070-1975 is when America drastically began to pump more & more money into it's Welfare State.  One would think that if we provided more money to help, that 11% would go down even further... but it did the opposite.  As more money was given it  increased by an additional 5% within 10 years. Between 1985 to 2007, the poverty rate in America has ranged from 12-16%. 

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Originally posted by wacky
my facts tell me there were 47 million Americans without it in 2008. That's not just like 5 million.. it's 47 million. And don't tell me it's not because they can't afford it.. even a friend of mine from the States was refusing to go see a doctor because it's too expensive.

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This branches out into two separate issues.  "Health Care Cost" vs. "Health Insurance Cost/availability".  Doctors, clinics & hospitals now have to charge more, due to reason that should be looked at & fixed before total reform.   Medical Malpractice Lawsuits for example.  They wont address the issues with that, because 1/2 the politicians & their campaign contributers are attorneys. Or Government regulations & restrictions lifted.   In almost 4/5 of all the states, the federal government limits who can sell insurance in the state. There are over 1200 insurance companies in America,  yet the states like California are only allowed to offer 6.

Many states in the US offer their own type of assistance with health care, without any federal oversight or control.  The Constitution of the United States does NOT give the 'Federal Government' any control to control or even monkey with the private sector health care system.  If it's such an issue, the States can work with their legal residents to either create assistance with health care insurance for the poor or tweak the system to fix kinks. 

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Originally posted by wacky
anyway, point is, there are two sides to all of this. You can't just be closed minded and only want to see one side of everything. Yes, there are things he hasn't done. Some he hasn't succeeded at, some which are in progress but he has accomplished some of them. Don't ignore that part.

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Okay I've been very open minded about what Obama has done in the past 10 months... nothing productive for America. Obama & his wife fly across the country in separate planes for the 2016 Olympic decision & then his administration lays of 8% of the white house staff due to lack of money... hmm...

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Originally posted by wacky
I found a website that's pretty interesting. Is it reliable? I don't know.. maybe. But it's still interesting:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/browse/

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Yep I have that link saved in my bookmarks.

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Originally posted by wacky
but please don't try to speak for everyone in your country. That's just being very ignorant, close-minded and selfish.. and no, your country isn't better than any other so you don't need to say the whole thing 'United States of America'. It's like me saying 'Canada of North America of America' no.. just the United States is fine (and yes.. I do know its USA, you just don't need to spell the whole thing out)

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Excuse me?  I am damn proud of my country as a whole. In a forum widely used by people all over the world, I will call my country by it's full & rightful name if I wish too.  "I'm not saying America is better then you" and that is the end of that topic. 

I'm not speaking for everyone in the United States of America.  I don't have too either. 

1)When over a million people from all 50 states, different political parties, races, nationalities, religions, travel to Washington DC in protest of what the government is trying to do... I'd say Obama should back off a bit & take alittle more time to listen to the people that he works for.  Am I wrong?

2) The polls tell the whole story: Barack Obama sees worst poll rating drop in 50 years

2)The Federal Government literally can not reform or even touch America's health care system.  That right is not listed in the General Welfare clause or any other article/section of our constitution.  Bam, leave it up to the individual states, the private sector and the American people to decide that is truly needed. 

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
500 promises & after almost a whole year in office... only 5 have received any sort of action (3 still in the works, 2 that Obama compromised on).

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I have absolutely no interest in getting involved in this discussion, but I'd like to point out that you can scroll down that list and look at 25 other pages as well. It's not because point 6 to 14 have received no action that the other 486 points haven't either

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Excuse me?  I am damn proud of my country as a whole. In a forum widely used by people all over the world, I will call my country by it's full & rightful name if I wish too.  "I'm not saying America is better then you" and that is the end of that topic.

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lol, i agree with wacky, why wouldn't you just say the united states? It would be like calling my country The Commonwealth of Australia whenever i talk about it, it's just not needed. It obviously gave the impression to wacky that you think your country is better then any other.

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Originally posted by Pr0xY
Asking "Has Obama lied?" is a simple yes or no question where  agreeing or disagreeing with opinion is not possible.

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rofl, a yes or no question can't be agreed/disagreed with?

Question: is Discrate hot?
Answers1: Yes.
Answer2: No.

Answer2 disagrees with Answer1, but the answers were still yes or no.

I know what you're trying to say, but don't make silly comments like that, lul.

---- Now that is out of the way ----

You're saying that the statement 'Obama lied' is a prove-able fact with only one answer[in your opinion, that answer is: yes]. Unfortunately for you, and as we have seen admirably demonstrated already there is most definitely a lot of room to argue the 'statement'. Just think about it for a second, this is clearly not fact. Let's try to determine what "lying" is, and whether the fact he has spent time and effort in putting things into motion(which he has, as already demonstrated) counts as a successful act. I mean, yeah you can take the view that anything that hasn't been completed fully is a complete fail, but that seems slightly ignorant, don't you think?

You need to realise that things don't happen overnight, remember, Rome wasn't built in a day. I also agree, with Discrate on the healthcare thing: what the fuck is wrong with you?

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It's not like asking "Do you think abortion is right or wrong?".

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Abortion is right, now that is a fact.