Shoutbox

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Originally posted by anubis_kree_
Netscape isn't that good...Yeah I've only had to deal with it a few times but meh garbage speaks for itself

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This is just the kind of comments I mean... this is based upon what? If you aren't giong to say anything usefull, then don't say a thing... This isn't a stupid browser war... It's a decent discussion about different browsers and their different interfaces and pro's and con's...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
In any standalone browser (yes, Mozzila has his own standalone browser: FireFox. And Netscape also has his standalone browser) you can set the toolbars you wish. And all the standalone browsers are roughly all the same. There is no crap in any browser. It all comes down to user interface and rendering HTML pages. So, if you say that you like the userinterface of your browser more, then I wont argue. But saying that others are crap and bloated doesn't hold any ground.

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Agreed

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Like I said, all the top-browsers have all the same functions.
examples:
* "g netscape illness" in Opera. You can do that (even without "g") with MSIE, and in Netscape/Mozilla as well.

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In IE it will take a long time, because it first has to realise that it isn't a valid page, and it doesn't use google, but some ### MS service

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* Google Toolbars? for every major browser there is a google toolbar...

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Yeah, yeah... but you don't need it in Opera because you can type "g blah blah". It is there, though

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* Toolbars in general? In every major browser you can enable/disable select/deselect and even create your own...

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Yep..

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* Tabbed browsing? In every major browser you can do that except in MSIE (but this will be added soon)

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Until then, they are walking behind. it btw also matters how the tabs work. Are they fine, aren't they too big blah blah..

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For most browsers and suites you can download a very basic "browser only". It is up to you to download, install more functions, toolbars, plugins, etc.. etc..

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not for Opera... there aren't much plug-ins for it.. (though I have an excellent 'W3-dev menu' Still, Opera is very fast and small (somewhere in 3 MB, where Firefox is about 6 ( ? ) and IE 7-92 (average: 25)

I dont know why but no matter how many times I try and move away from Internet Explorer i always end up coming back to it.  It's reliable and never seems to fail that often.  The others all seem a lil sluggish when it comes to loading them up.  Plus IE intergrates well with windows!

i actually agree with Wabz, although i love Firefox i seem to keep using IE for alot of sites aswell, i currently mainly use Firefox for this site and a few others but i use IE when i need a quick reference from a site or just a quick website check etc, IE loads quicker than all other browsers and opera, i used to like opera but then i found Firefox (then Firebird) and since then i've hated opera (still have it installed though) i find opera way too bulky, too many features, i prefere IE and Firefox because they seem smaller, i know Opera is 3mb to dl (non java) but im on DSL so 3mb is nothing tbh, loading times are about the same for me in ALL browsers, maybe slightly faster in Firefox and Opera but not amazingly faster...

Never tried Netscape though so not sure about it

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Originally posted by Wabz
I dont know why but no matter how many times I try and move away from Internet Explorer i always end up coming back to it.  It's reliable and never seems to fail that often.  The others all seem a lil sluggish when it comes to loading them up.  Plus IE intergrates well with windows!

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it is part of windows (sadly). Please also include WHY you en up coming back to it..

and Kao, why do you hate Opera? Tell us - it might be interesting

Also, the total size of opera is so small because the core files and executables are all compressed. Other browser don't compress there files. Uncompressed, Opera is roughly as big as the other browsers (though, still a bit smaller, but not much). (and because it doesn't come standard with Java, like every other browser)

The big difference between Netscape Browser and FireBird/Fox (I always mixed those up ) is the userinterface. Most people will find the basic Netscape look a bit "old". But that's why I like it, no "fancy "stuff, just clean layout (blah... also because I'm old ? ) But you can easly change the look from Netscape though (just like any other browser). Also Mozilla/FireFox/Bird has always a more recent build of the engine. The reason is simple: Netscape waits until a very stable engine-build has released publicly before they build there own suite around it. The benefit of this is that Netscape will be roughly more stable then Mozilla/Firefox/Bird, because they could contain not yet discovered and fixed bugs. So, that's the second reason why I use Netscape instead of the other Mozilla's... But this will change in the futur, cause I doubt there will be a new Netscape coming (see other notes/articles/posts about Netscape stop developping). Oh, and the AOL things in Netscape? I just don't install them, and what I can't unselect at the install, I can remove later...

Might be, but that makes it easier/better to download than Mozilla FireFox. And you can choose a version with Java installed. It's 15. instead of 3.something. So there's no way that file is included with Mozilla FireFox also, for Mozilla you still have to download plug-ins for a lot of things. Why are you going Netscape vs Mozilla?

isn't Mozilla/Netscape vs Opera more interesting (talking about IE is boring; it sucks compared to mozilla and Opera anyway )

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Originally posted by PlusFan
Why are you going Netscape vs Mozilla?

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I thought someone asked for the difference... guess not... need to read better... oops

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Originally posted by PlusFan
isn't Mozilla/Netscape vs Opera more interesting (talking about IE is boring; it sucks compared to mozilla and Opera anyway )

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maybe, but you have to consider all browsers

have fun reading, guys..

note: smilies are disabled

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Yes, but Mozilla and Netscape share the same codebase, you could see netscape as a bit outdated but more stable. So they're about the same (about). Opera is different to Netscape and Mozilla. IE is also, but everybody here knows IE sucks, they're just too bored/whatever to switch.


I say Opera is better. It is really hard to find all these (sometimes little) things that I like better then Mozilla (if I quote from that guy, with Mozilla he means Mozilla FireBird, or - as he says - "whatever it's called by now")

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Who is this series for?

This series hopes to be useful for:
Those who have never used Opera (you’ll learn why so many love it)
Those who think Internet Explorer is the best browser out there (if anyone can help you, it’s Opera)
Those who have used Opera but haven’t explored all it has to offer (and you may be surprised at how much is under there)
Those who think that Mozilla has the corner on innovation in the browser world (want to know where they get a lot of their ideas ;-?)

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all the quotes here are from 30 Days to Becoming an Opera7 Lover

for all IE users:

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Very often I find that people who use Internet Explorer have gotten used to putting up with all sorts of things that they assume (incorrectly) that they cannot change. They think that they have to accept popup windows. They think they have to accept constant security patches — and you’d be amazed how many people have no idea how many security patches they are missing! They think they have to accept a browser that controls what they can do and what they can’t do. They think that the web is a lot slower than it really is, because many times what is really slowing them down isn’t the web, it’s IE.

If you are using Internet Explorer, try a week with Opera, and see what it’s like. If you find a site that just absolutely requires IE, then you can use IE for that site.... but you may find that you soon prefer Opera.

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:tongue:

oh, and for Guido:

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What about some of those other browsers?

It has become increasingly popular to wrap some sort of a skin around the Internet Explorer engine and try to pass it off as a new browser. Of course the problem is that they are building on a flawed foundation, full of bloated code and security holes. No matter what you lay on top of it, you can’t fix all of IE’s flaws any more than you can put a cow in a silk dress and think it won’t smell.

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The first thing to love about Opera is that you can download it in half the time of Mozilla Firebird and a tiny fraction of the time it would take you to update to the latest Internet Explorer, or even the security patches.

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What I said before. Who gives a f### if it's compressed, as long as I can d/l it a bit fast with my 312/8 connection :tongue:

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The Mozilla folks claim that Mozilla Firebird (née Phoenix) is “A Lean, Mean Browsing Machine”. Lean and Mean? Compared to who? But saying you are “lean and mean” compared to Internet Explorer is like saying you are in better shape than Jabba the Hutt!

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So how lean and mean is Firebird? It weighs in at 6.8 MB (Windows) or 9.2 MB (Linux) or 11.9 MB (Mac OSX). Compare that to Opera’s 3.3 MB — which includes a revolutionary mail program and several features only available as separate downloads in Mozilla Firebird. (Mozilla’s mail program is another 8.9 - 10.6 MB.)

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Customizing Your Toolbars

Ok, so Opera’s ability to change skins leaves other browsers in the dust, but we’re not done yet. Changing the color and the look is nice, but what about the buttons that you might not ever use? Wouldn’t it be easier if you could setup the buttons in such a way that worked best for you?

Well, Opera gives you that option. Right click on the Main toolbar (the top toolbar, under the row that says File/Edit/View/Navigation/etc) and select Customize Toolbars. You will get a window with three tabs of options. The first one is large icons, the second one is small icons, and the third is a list of fields, including 18 — that’s right 18 — search engine options.
Right Click Trick

One Operator (that’s my name for an experienced Opera user) said it best: When using Opera, “right click everything.” The toolbars are certainly a good example of this.

Right click trick: If you right click on the Main toolbar, you will see this context menu:

“Remove from Toolbar” does just that, it removes the current icon from the toolbar.

“Top/Bottom/Left/Right/Off” determines where the Toolbar appears

“Images Only/Text Only/Images and Text Below/Images and Text on right” — lets you control the items on the toolbar. Play around & see which you prefer.

“Large Images” changes between large (checked) and small (unchecked)

“Lock Buttons” prevents you from moving the icons around
“Customize Toolbars” brings up a panel, showing you all the various icons you can use
“Reset Toolbar” will bring it back to the original settings

“Skin” brings up another context menu showing all your installed skins.

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a must read about speeding up your internet connection by disabling images (temporarily). Very handy for slow connections. With IE and Mozilla it takes a lot of time, but in Opera you just press 'G'. http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/7/03/

Day 4 is about that Great feature called "F12"!! Really, F12 rocks. You can disable sh#t like Flash and Java with one finger. Then, when you need it, you can enable it again :happy: the same goes for sound in webpages and pop-ups (though I always have "open requested pop-up windows only" on). F12 is great!! Also gif animation.. animated gifs are almost always those blinking ads, and when they aren't, it takes only a few secs/2 keystrokes to enable the feature again.

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Conclusion

F12 rules. No other browser comes close to matching its ease and usefulness for some very handy features.

If, by any chance, you didn’t find any of this compelling, tomorrow will certainly change your mind. That’s because tomorrow is Day Five: Searching, and by the end of that day you should have enough to keep you occupied for the weekend and beyond. See you then.

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Not long ago someone emailed me about Opera and started with this quote: “I have switched to Opera, and I couldn’t be happier.... my God man, the search features... THE SEARCH FEATURES!”. That was one of the reasons I decided to update this series for Opera7, because it is a major selling point.

Just look at all of these search engines: Google, AllTheWeb, Lycos, SearchBoss, Amazon.com, Ebay, Price Comparison, Download.com, Domain name, Image, Video, MP3/Audio, Google Groups, News, and Opera support.

I’ll save you the time it would take to count them: there are FIFTEEN integrated search options. All of them have associated keyboard commands, so you do not even have to put them on any of the toolbars if you don’t want to.

Sure, Googlebar is nice (oooh, now it has a popup-stopper! Opera has had one since v6) Let’s compare: Googlebar = 1 search engine, Opera has FIFTEEN integrated search options. Googlebar also has to be visible to work, and there are no keystrokes. And what if you don’t want to use Google?

As I said in the beginning (Intro, Day 1) Opera is all about having choices. Opera combines 15 search options with muliple methods of using those search engines: 1) Use keystrokes, 2) Put the searches you want on a Toolbar, 3) use the multi-dropdown to get quick access to all of them.

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The moral of the story is that you can change the keystrokes and the search engines that Opera uses. Checkout the defaults by going to Preferences > Search. You can use the keystrokes in the Addressbar or by pressing F2. For example, if you wanted to search Google for “Norah Jones” you would simply press F2 and then type:

g norah jones

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Opera 7.2 introduced a new search feature that builds upon Inline Find (a longtime feature). By pressing . or / you can do an Inline Find. By pressing , you can limit that search to links only. Mozilla users may recognize this as similar to Find-As-You-Type, except that Opera gives you a visual cue that a search has been initiated.

Once you have the letters you want to search for, you can press F3 to find the next occurrence and Shift + F3 to find previous matches.

If you want to cancel the search, simply wait or press ESC.

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Powerful. Configurable. Incomparable. Unmatched. The search options alone make Opera worth the asking price, and make it far better than the other browsers out there. Given the importance of searching in today’s web, it’s hard to imagine a more practical and useful feature.

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the bookmarks rule!! :happy:

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The Nickname field is really a standout feature. You can assign an optional unique nickname with any page. Then if you want to open that page, all you need to do is enter it in the Address Bar or by pressing F2 and enter it there. Or you can press Shift + F2 and start typing.

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that means that shoutbox.menthix.net for me has a shorcut msgplus. When I type msgplus it will lead to shoutbox.menthix.net. When I press shift+F2 and type "m" it will immediately go to shoutbox.menthix.net, because it is the only nickname match :happy:

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Do you ever misspell the name of a website you like to visit? Very often people will register domain names that are common misspellings of popular sites (http://www.amzaon.com/ as a typo for http://www.amazon.com/ for example). Some of these misspellings will lead you to pornographic sites. Avoid the hassle! Bookmark your favorite sites and give them shorter, easier to type nicknames and never end up at the wrong site again due to a slip of the fingers!

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really nice one:

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Let’s compare the steps to downloading a file which we will call “test.exe” just as an example.

Steps in Internet Explorer
Click on the file
Panel opens asking if you want to save/open/cancel/or get help
Choose save
Select folder (and filename, if you wish to change it)
Click OK
Download begins

Now here are the steps in Opera
Click on the file
Download begins
Panel opens asking if you want to save/open/cancel/or get help
Choose save
Select folder (and filename, if you wish to change it)
Click OK

Did you notice the difference? It looks pretty minor, I know, but it is worth noting. Opera begins the download as soon as you click on the file, which means that while you are deciding where to save the file and what to call it, and whether you want to just save it or open it, Opera is working in the background to save the file. If the file is small enough or if you are on a fast connection, it may even be downloaded by the time you are finished making your choices.

Now granted that may seem like a little thing, but it has the practical effect of making your download faster, not by speeding up your connection but simply by starting the download as soon as you indicate you want to download it. Just another nice touch by the folks at Opera that leaves you wondering, “Why didn’t anyone else think of that?”

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You may have noticed a screen like this appearing when Opera first starts up:



This panel will appear automatically if Opera did not shut down properly (a crash, perhaps, or a system lockup). In those hopefully-rare cases, you will want to select the button next to “Continue from last time” and click on “Start”. Opera will re-open all the pages that were open before Opera shut down.

That is a pretty amazing (and unique to Opera) feature. But wait, there’s more!

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VERY NICE FEATURE!!!

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How many times have you accidentally closed a page you were looking at? You know, that page where that you had found after searching through Google or a web store’s search engine, that page with an URL that was designed not to let you bookmark it, or some other page that you realizied you wanted back. But it was gone.

Well with Opera you never have to worry about that again. Just press Control + Alt + Z. You’ll notice that is similar to Control + Z which is nearly-universal for “Undo”. Well, think of this as “Undo Closing that Window”! With that keystroke, Opera will re-open the last window that you closed. Nobody else has that.

Important! Opera’s memory for closed windows is cleared when you quit Opera.

If that’s not enough for you, goto Window + Closed and you will see a listing of the last ten windows that you closed.

I can’t count the number of times this has come in handy, even in just the time that Opera 7.2 was in beta-testing.

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ANOTHER GREAT FEATURE!! (sorry for the shouting, but this post is very long, and otherwise you may just not notice :wink: )

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My Eyes! My Eyes!

There are an astonishing number of really bad web pages out there. I won’t point any fingers or link to any specific examples. You’ve seen them. You know them. You hate them.... Actually you probably just got used to them.

There are pages with black backgrounds and tiny fonts. They make you squint. It makes your eyes strain. There are horrendous repeating background images which make it nearly impossible to read the text. There are soft blue backgrounds with faint white fonts — oh the possibilities are nearly as endless as the web itself.... but the point is this:

There are a lot of bad web pages out there. Want to make them better?
User Style Sheets

Opera in Author mode:

Opera in User mode:

Note the change in the 4th icon. Toggle between both modes by clicking on the icon or press Control + G.

Right next to the Address Bar (where the current URL is shown) are four icons; from left to right they are a padlock, a camera, a printer, and a piece of paper with the corner folded over. We’re going to look at the 4th icon. There are two modes: Author Mode and User Mode. Author Mode is the default (unless you change it in preferences).

If you haven’t configured User Mode (Preferences > Page Style > Configure Modes) then switching between User Mode and Author Mode may not appear to make any difference.

However, if you choose the dropdown and select one of the predefined user style sheets, the page will change. Most often the one you will want to use is High Contrast (B/W), which will transform the page to black text on a white background.

You can select as many different predefined user style sheets as you would like. Their effects are cumulative (that is, you can select more than one and Opera will attempt to apply all of them at once. The net effect will vary, and not all styles are compatible with one another).

User Style Sheets are an easy way to make an ugly page readable. (Apply your own CSS by making your own Style Sheet.)
Conclusion

Ugly pages? Opera makes them better. It ain’t magic, but it’s close. (Neither Mozilla nor Internet Explorer have anything like it.) Mozilla does not have user style sheets (at least not anywhere I could find). Internet Explorer does, under Internet Options > General > Accessibility.

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Recent CNet article about how bad Internet Explorer’s CSS support is compared to Opera

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WOW! Long post :shocked: Enough material to keep you guys busy :tongue: You can also read the full 30 days to becoming an opera lover. Oh shit! I just closed the window.. no problem!

Window > closed > ah, there it is! :happy:

http://tntluoma.com/opera/lover/7/

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Originally posted by Guido
Well, they shouldn't improve Windows XP --> when you buy it, you buy what's there right now. It's not that we are used to get Windows features in SPs or anything.

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You see, you always talk politics when you try to defend Microsoft.

Try this: People pay very good money for Windows XP, and they deserve a full reward to that money. Microsoft is obligated to provide the customer with the best software they can. This is also in Microsoft's own interest: people would be less frustrated with them if they fixed all these annoying things about explorer.exe, and made things faster. Other than that, Windows XP is fine by me. :p

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Why does my entire MSN Messenger 6.1 hang for about 10 seconds whenever someone is added to a multiple-person conversation (or leaves it)? (or could that be Plus?:P)

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Doesn't happen to me :-/

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:-/ happens to me when there are at least 4-5 other contacts already in when I'm invited... :-/

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Oh, and I also think that they (and most other software companies) use too many resources, which forces people to buy new computers...

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So you are confident that Mr. Bill just says "Hey! Add some nice loop over here so that the users needs 3871597195mb of ram to run Calc.exe!! Cool, isn't it, Ballmer?" :rolleyes:

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No (:rolleyes:), but I'm confident they can make their software way more efficient.

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Software doesn't need more resources to rearrange the menus to be more understandable (which is one of those "small things"), but those things don't sell. Microsoft has to add skinning into Windows XP to make it attractive for the average user (even for the average designer like me :P). They have to add fading, shadows, alpha blended icons. And you can't do that in a 386. And your beloved Apple understands that :P. You can't run OSX with its fancy (and beautiful) dock animations in the 1984 Macintosh.

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:rolleyes: would you stop being so extreme? 386?! I bought this PC 2 years ago, and I feel like banging my head against the wall quite often, because big companies don't care about slow machines.

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A computer is a tool, not an entertainment center.

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Wrong :P A computer is both. They used to be ugly tools, now if they are not entertainment centers they don't succeed.

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*sigh*, I shouldn't have said that, knowing you'll be there to criticize my post. :p What I meant to say is that from a programmer's aspect, a computer is still a computer. Programs should be designed from scratch to be as efficient as possible. It's the general design that is wrong, not the specific code.

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Adobe Reader 6.0 loads as slow as hell, for example. Very unpleasing.

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Not anymore! Try the first link here

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:-o I love you man.