Shoutbox

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Originally posted by markee
Personally I agree with Chris on all of his issues that he brings to the fore.

The disabled might be a minority but that does not mean they are to be excluded further and by posting a web page on the internet you are making it for EVERYONE to view, they did not choose to be disabled so you could at least show a little compassion and make it viewable by all (even if it means a little bit longer to code).

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Sorry but than I do not understand why your sig should be less disabled-friendly because I don't know any screen-readers that can read text out of images. After all they did not choose to be disabled did they? Then again why do we use emoticons? Blind people can't see any emoticons can they? But still we use them!

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Originally posted by markee
288kb is a large file size for any website with as much text as yours.  If it were 28.8kb then it might have been a different story but I could write enough javascript to replicate a fully, almost seem less looking, animated webpage (much like one in flash, but with a whole lot more animation than yours) using only PHP and Javascript.  Furthermore I believe anyone who has been serious about webdesign for more than 9 months should be at the same caliber.

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Sorry but I still can't believe that, a website just like ours cannot be created just using code with less than 288kb of space needed.
If you would like to try, i'll be happy to send you the images,... you need.

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Originally posted by markee
Colours and logos are only a minor issue when it comes to webdesign as they are not what makes the website function, but are just the icing on the cake and can be changed easily if you decided to go in a different direction.  They should only paint on a house, it is the structure beneath that makes it a building.

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I have a different opinion about this, I think everything that has to do with colours, logo's, ... is as much as important than the code beneath. These are the factors that make a website nice to visit.

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Originally posted by markee
There is nothing in that website that could not have been made through PHP/ASP and Javascript (with room for expansion) with an end result that is happy for any person and is compatible with search engines, online translators and the likes.

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I'd like to see that! What about the music player (streaming mp3) ?

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Originally posted by markee
I did not mean to sound rude towards your work in any way, but want you to realise that there are other factors that you need to take into consideration when designing and coding webpages.

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I did not mean to sound rude also, it's just hard to defend/express myself because English is not my mother tongue.

Your site looks nice, there is no doubt about that, from a professional point of view, you shouldn't make a site with just flash, for all the afforementioned reasons.

Why don't you also make a text only version much like JK Rowling's website has?

However, from a business point of view, I don't see a major problem with using flash for this kind of site. If you make a text only version too (it doesn't have to be amazing, really basic will do) then it negates pretty much all the search engine/screen readers/disabled access complaints.

This site is meant to be a marketing site, not a majorly functional site like facebook, and so the same design rules do not apply to the sites. It's all about knowing your audience, the kind of people who visit this site will probably like the "cool" MySpace-esque animations and tacky design, so from a "designer completing a project to the client's specification" point of view, the site is good.

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Originally posted by Xeeder

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Originally posted by markee
Colours and logos are only a minor issue when it comes to webdesign as they are not what makes the website function, but are just the icing on the cake and can be changed easily if you decided to go in a different direction.  They should only paint on a house, it is the structure beneath that makes it a building.

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I have a different opinion about this, I think everything that has to do with colours, logo's, ... is as much as important than the code beneath. These are the factors that make a website nice to visit.

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I have to agree with Xeeder here, whilst it is important to have a well designed site that works fast, again it is all about audience.

Obviously making a site like facebook in flash, would be a bad move. But for site that isn't too interactive, and is more a promotional tool than a social site: flash is perfect.

The average fan of Xeeder, isn't really going to care that the site is made in flash, or javascript. All s/he is going to care about is that the site looks cool.

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Originally posted by saralk
Your site looks nice, there is no doubt about that, from a professional point of view, you shouldn't make a site with just flash, for all the afforementioned reasons.

Why don't you also make a text only version much like JK Rowling's website has?

However, from a business point of view, I don't see a major problem with using flash for this kind of site. If you make a text only version too (it doesn't have to be amazing, really basic will do) then it negates pretty much all the search engine/screen readers/disabled access complaints.

This site is meant to be a marketing site, not a majorly functional site like facebook, and so the same design rules do not apply to the sites. It's all about knowing your audience, the kind of people who visit this site will probably like the "cool" MySpace-esque animations and tacky design, so from a "designer completing a project to the client's specification" point of view, the site is good.

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Originally posted by Xeeder

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Originally posted by markee
Colours and logos are only a minor issue when it comes to webdesign as they are not what makes the website function, but are just the icing on the cake and can be changed easily if you decided to go in a different direction.  They should only paint on a house, it is the structure beneath that makes it a building.

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I have a different opinion about this, I think everything that has to do with colours, logo's, ... is as much as important than the code beneath. These are the factors that make a website nice to visit.

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I have to agree with Xeeder here, whilst it is important to have a well designed site that works fast, again it is all about audience.

Obviously making a site like facebook in flash, would be a bad move. But for site that isn't too interactive, and is more a promotional tool than a social site: flash is perfect.

The average fan of Xeeder, isn't really going to care that the site is made in flash, or javascript. All s/he is going to care about is that the site looks cool.

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Thanks for the comment, maybe i'll create a text-only version one of these days. I'll do my best.

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Originally posted by Xeeder
That's ridiculous, i know Americans are great in sueing other Americans for the most stupid things (see http://www.jodysgarage.com/lawsuits.htm) but that's just childish and not the way it's done here in Belgium. Like Exca said, we are not obligated to even HAVE a website!

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So you're saying you don't care about people with disabilities and they deserve a lower/limited style of living than yourself? I think you'll find in Belgium there are laws regarding accessibility too.

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Originally posted by Xeeder

The AmbiSquad website is a DJ Squad site wich requires that level of animation/audio/(and soon) video provided by flash.

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Right, then you embed those components as Flash files - not the whole site. Why does the menu and text on the page have to be Flash? Surely you're not going to animate the text.

I can't even select and copy the text on the page if I wanted to. I can't tab to your input fields for the shoutbox. These are things which are even easy to implement in Flash.

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Originally posted by Xeeder
My personal opinion is that you could use some education in designing too, your MyBB logo for example or the colorpicking on your blog I would rather describe as 'not looking professional'. In coding you might be good (and you don't mind to mention that, as others here) but thats not all you know.

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I think you fail to understand my point - so instead you go and bash the MyBB logo - which is designed that way for a particular reason - people don't leave it on there forums.

As for the colours on my personal site - wow, you've stooped to another level here. Of course, could it be that you just don't know too much. Has your web designer ever heard of contrast?

So you're saying blue and orange are unprofessional colours? I'll be sure to mention that to the multitude of sites who employ those colours - just so they know they're unprofessional.

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Originally posted by Xeeder
That's maybe because there's a problem with the system of educating in your country.

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It's the same everywhere. You only need to pass to graduate.

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Originally posted by Xeeder
Where do you think the projects on the portfolio come from???

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They all look like DJ sites to me - so I'd say they're your friends. Of course, If I were looking for someone to design a site for me and saw your portfolio, "the inspiration I got from my girlfriend" and the "Girlfriend policy" then I'd turn my head and look elsewhere.

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Originally posted by markee
I did not mean to sound rude towards your work in any way, but want you to realise that there are other factors that you need to take into consideration when designing and coding webpages.

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Bingo - and not just shut down the comments & criticisms made.

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Originally posted by Xeeder
Sorry but than I do not understand why your sig should be less disabled-friendly because I don't know any screen-readers that can read text out of images. After all they did not choose to be disabled did they? Then again why do we use emoticons? Blind people can't see any emoticons can they? But still we use them!

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That is why in HTML we have the alt tag for images to provide alternate text for screen readers. In the case of emoticons in Messenger - you'll notice it has the "disable emoticons".

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Originally posted by Xeeder
I'd like to see that! What about the music player (streaming mp3) ?

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It is fine for content like that to be Flash/etc

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Originally posted by Chris Boulton

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Originally posted by Xeeder
That's ridiculous, i know Americans are great in sueing other Americans for the most stupid things (see http://www.jodysgarage.com/lawsuits.htm) but that's just childish and not the way it's done here in Belgium. Like Exca said, we are not obligated to even HAVE a website!

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So you're saying you don't care about people with disabilities and they deserve a lower/limited style of living than yourself? I think you'll find in Belgium there are laws regarding accessibility too.

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Originally posted by Xeeder

The AmbiSquad website is a DJ Squad site wich requires that level of animation/audio/(and soon) video provided by flash.

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Right, then you embed those components as Flash files - not the whole site. Why does the menu and text on the page have to be Flash? Surely you're not going to animate the text.

I can't even select and copy the text on the page if I wanted to. I can't tab to your input fields for the shoutbox. These are things which are even easy to implement in Flash.

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Originally posted by Xeeder
My personal opinion is that you could use some education in designing too, your MyBB logo for example or the colorpicking on your blog I would rather describe as 'not looking professional'. In coding you might be good (and you don't mind to mention that, as others here) but thats not all you know.

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I think you fail to understand my point - so instead you go and bash the MyBB logo - which is designed that way for a particular reason - people don't leave it on there forums.

As for the colours on my personal site - wow, you've stooped to another level here. Of course, could it be that you just don't know too much. Has your web designer ever heard of contrast?

So you're saying blue and orange are unprofessional colours? I'll be sure to mention that to the multitude of sites who employ those colours - just so they know they're unprofessional.

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Originally posted by Xeeder
That's maybe because there's a problem with the system of educating in your country.

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It's the same everywhere. You only need to pass to graduate.

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Originally posted by Xeeder
Where do you think the projects on the portfolio come from???

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They all look like DJ sites to me - so I'd say they're your friends. Of course, If I were looking for someone to design a site for me and saw your portfolio, "the inspiration I got from my girlfriend" and the "Girlfriend policy" then I'd turn my head and look elsewhere.

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Originally posted by markee
I did not mean to sound rude towards your work in any way, but want you to realise that there are other factors that you need to take into consideration when designing and coding webpages.

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Bingo - and not just shut down the comments & criticisms made.

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Originally posted by Xeeder
Sorry but than I do not understand why your sig should be less disabled-friendly because I don't know any screen-readers that can read text out of images. After all they did not choose to be disabled did they? Then again why do we use emoticons? Blind people can't see any emoticons can they? But still we use them!

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That is why in HTML we have the alt tag for images to provide alternate text for screen readers. In the case of emoticons in Messenger - you'll notice it has the "disable emoticons".

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Originally posted by Xeeder
I'd like to see that! What about the music player (streaming mp3) ?

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It is fine for content like that to be Flash/etc

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Oh, sorry but this is getting ridiculous, you just wrongly understand me on purpose.

I never said someone deserves a lower/limited lifestyle than myself. I think you just don't want to understand what I'm trying to explain...  Off-course there are laws regarding accessibility in belgium too, but they don't obligate a DJ squad to make sure their website can be perfectly viewed by people with disabilities.

By the way... how shoud someone who's blind pass this required field to register on your forum?

Isn't this an accessibility problem?

Why does the menu and text on the page have to be Flash?
Because I want them to be, fair enough?

Why should you be able to copy the text? I could sue you for that! There's a clear ' 2007 AmbiSquad All rights reserved' text.
You know what? Let's al sue each other!

Oh, so you design a unprofessional looking logo to make sure users would replace it with their own logo? Yeah right!

Maybe I expressed myself wrong about the colors of your blog, I meant those colors aren't really attractive looking...
And yes, off-cource I heard of contrast! You took a look at my creations so you should know that!

I don't think you graduated in Belgium so your really shouldn't talk about things you don't know anything of.

I didn't knew any of them before they asked me to create them a website. I didn't even said anything of making websites for people, they just came to me an asked me to create them a website. Aside those creations you see in my portfolio I have 6 other requests for the same type of websites too (all people who I've never met before) so they must really like the creations don't you think?
Or maybe you just don't have a girlfriend that inspiring as mine.

I don't shut down comments, I accept them except for the one's I don't agree with.
All the reasons you gave me can easily be unified as one reason not to use flash. 'Usability/Accessibility'.
So actually you gave me 1 reason, what about the 9,999 others?

So that's why all the smileys in MyBB have the same ALT tag content '(Smilie)'. Wow, now someone who's blind can hear when a emoticon had been used! Fantastic! But... hey, wait a minute, shouldn't he know which one was used?
You see, your commenting on other developers work but your work isn't 100% accessible too!

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Originally posted by Xeeder
By the way... how shoud someone who's blind pass this required field to register on your forum?

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An audio version.

I'm sorry to say guys, and don't take it meanly, but this is pathetic, and when I mean this, I don't mean the content of the discussion, I mean the way it is discussed. You both are adults, act like it.

First of all, I really don't agree with the discution!
And, about the site, it was a nice job...

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Originally posted by Xeeder
I don't shut down comments, I accept them except for the one's I don't agree with.

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Don't want to fight, but about this, remember that the website was exposed to a public forum, as there are lots of diferent people on this forum, it's extremely normal that diferent people has diferent points of view, and of course, some of the ideas you will not agree with.... So, not considering then it's OK, but not shutt down the ones you don't aggre with...
Sorry about the way of telling this but: Who speaks what he/she wants, hears what he/she didn't wants...

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Originally posted by alby
I'm sorry to say guys, and don't take it meanly, but this is pathetic, and when I mean this, I don't mean the content of the discussion, I mean the way it is discussed. You both are adults, act like it.

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I can't agree with you more, we're acting childish. We just happen to have 2 different opinions, lets just keep it that way and go on with our lives .

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Originally posted by MicroWay
First of all, I really don't agree with the discution!
And, about the site, it was a nice job...

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Originally posted by Xeeder
I don't shut down comments, I accept them except for the one's I don't agree with.

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Don't want to fight, but about this, remember that the website was exposed to a public forum, as there are lots of diferent people on this forum, it's extremely normal that diferent people has diferent points of view, and of course, some of the ideas you will not agree with.... So, not considering then it's OK, but not shutt down the ones you don't aggre with...
Sorry about the way of telling this but: Who speaks what he/she wants, hears what he/she didn't wants...

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Off-course diferent people have a diferent point of view, and I respect that. It's not really 'shut down' I meant, it's just that I like to give my own opninion on the comments of my work wich I don't agree with.

But lets start acting adult now, we both have a diferent point of view, so what?