Shoutbox

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Originally posted by Chaotic_Shield
SO MICROSOFT!!

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well said

@lylesback: They made the first program to run on a computer? Do you seriously think so?

[personal_note]lylesback2 infected with MS-FUD virus?[/personal_note]

Oh, and uh.. what's wrong with downloading an OS and burning it?

I found some nice links:

http://ashitaka-san.home.comcast.net/yayrant/ieharmful.html
http://www.yohng.com/iebad.html
http://www.opera.com/whyopera/

Please don't start Opera <-> Mozilla! I think most ppl here now my opinions (*cough*), but it would really damage the thread

I think that you can't consider Avant, or something like it an alternative, because it uses IE, and therefore is insecure, and will still give you #### spyware. Also it does not follow the standards. Those IE 'patches' also make me wonder something: If IE is such a great browser, why do we need to add all these features with a "patch"? Why didn't MS add it themselves, whereas most modern browsers are more secure as IE and have handy features as pop-up blockers and tabs, and .... (because of a maximum character limit, I am not able to sum up why Opera and Mozilla are better than IE. Sorry! )

Everyone using IE should really start using opera and/or Mozilla (Firefox)! Both are great browsers, and the argument that not all sites will load without IE is bullshit. If there is one, and you *really* need to use it, you can still use IE. A browser change is a very easy thing to do. Bookmarks and things can be imported. IMO, there's really no reason to stay with IE, except for "it was installed when I bought the PC", which btw proves how MS is misusing their monopoly.

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Since Mozilla is like Netscape on steroids

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huh? Netscape is Mozilla with AOL links and bundles, Mozilla is not Netscape on steroids, Mozilla is the basis of Netscape.

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Originally posted by Chrono

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Originally posted by lylesback2
i dunno why everyone is against microsoft... alot off you buy / burn there Operating Systems.. download there products, so dont hate M$

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i dont use IE, i use avant... but i dont have any problem with internet explorer

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I can't believed you converted

* Guido remembers convincing him to stop using IE

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I think that you can't consider Avant, or something like it an alternative, because it uses IE, and therefore is insecure, and will still give you #### spyware. Also it does not follow the standards. Those IE 'patches' also make me wonder something: If IE is such a great browser, why do we need to add all these features with a "patch"?

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Could you read that first sentence and explaining how the hell did you reach to that conclusion?

Avant uses IE --> it's insecure --> magically gives you #### spyware --> it's not an alternative.

Wow, that's power of deduction.

The fact that they use IE's rendering engine doesn't make them the same program. They are alternatives. And much better than Firefox or others, IMO.

Who said IE is "such a great browser"? Even Microsoft knows that's not true. You should read MS employees' blogs more often, there's a lot of talk about IE lately.

I use IE cuz of just one reason, because most of the sites are desigend to be best viewed on IE, other then than that, i use  tool bar to Block popups, google searchin, mail checkin. And to tell the truth, i dont like Microsoft even if i like IE. Also, i just want one thin more in IE, Tabbs!

I use Opera because of the integrated IRC-chat, popup blocker and tabbed browsing.

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Originally posted by Guido

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Since Mozilla is like Netscape on steroids

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huh? Netscape is Mozilla with AOL links and bundles, Mozilla is not Netscape on steroids, Mozilla is the basis of Netscape.

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Err..Mozilla suite was built off an earlier version of netscape, and then was later rebuilt from scratch. Netscape is NOT based off mozilla.

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Originally posted by stonesour
Netscape is NOT based off mozilla.

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Netscape 4. But since Netscape 6 (they skipped a number) all AOL does is take the Mozilla code and add their bundles (AIM, some buttons, favorites, etc.).

Current versions of Netscape are based in Mozilla.

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Mozilla suite was built off an earlier version of netscape

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Nope, wrong. Mozilla suite was a complete rewrite of an early version of Netscape (4). It was not built off it.

    quote:Mozilla suite was built off an earlier version of netscape

Nope, wrong. Mozilla suite was a complete rewrite of an early version of Netscape (4). It was not built off it.


Wrong, the early versions of Mozilla were built of netscape, then later on Mozilla was completely rewritten.

Don't tell me I'm going to have to go search the mozilla site for this...

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Netscape 7.1 is based on Mozilla 1.4. Both applications share almost the identical features, such as tabbed browsing, custom keywords, and Sidebar. Exceptions are additions of proprietary features such as the support for Netscape WebMail and AOL mail. In general, Netscape 7 and Mozilla will display Web pages and read mail the same.

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Thats what I've found so far, I can't remember where I read the bit about early versions of mozilla being based of netscape, but it's there somewhere.

Anyway, the above says now netscape is based of mozilla, but it wasn't like that before.

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Originally posted by Guido

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Since Mozilla is like Netscape on steroids

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huh? Netscape is Mozilla with AOL links and bundles, Mozilla is not Netscape on steroids, Mozilla is the basis of Netscape.

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Originally posted by Chrono

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Originally posted by lylesback2
i dunno why everyone is against microsoft... alot off you buy / burn there Operating Systems.. download there products, so dont hate M$

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i dont use IE, i use avant... but i dont have any problem with internet explorer

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I can't believed you converted

* Guido remembers convincing him to stop using IE

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Well, I think he's still using it..

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Avant Browser is a standalone application designed to expand services provided by Microsoft Internet Explorer.

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Am I wrong now saying that Avant is an application which makes IE better, but still uses IE?

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I think that you can't consider Avant, or something like it an alternative, because it uses IE, and therefore is insecure, and will still give you #### spyware. Also it does not follow the standards. Those IE 'patches' also make me wonder something: If IE is such a great browser, why do we need to add all these features with a "patch"?

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Could you read that first sentence and explaining how the hell did you reach to that conclusion?

Avant uses IE --> it's insecure --> magically gives you #### spyware --> it's not an alternative.

Wow, that's power of deduction.

The fact that they use IE's rendering engine doesn't make them the same program. They are alternatives. And much better than Firefox or others, IMO.

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It's better than Firefox because it copies Opera's features

Security:

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Is Avant Browser a secure browser?


Yes, Avant Browser is secure. Since it's based on Internet Explorer, Avant Browser is as secure as Internet Explorer. Avant Browser supports all SSL secured websites. Avant Browser's encryption length is the same as Internet Explorer's.

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And you are using IE! So you're still helping MS misuse it's monopoly with "MS-HTML".

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How does Avant Browser work?


Based on services provided by Microsoft Internet Explorer, Avant Browser renders and navigates HTML.

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Who said IE is "such a great browser"? Even Microsoft knows that's not true. You should read MS employees' blogs more often, there's a lot of talk about IE lately.

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Some of MS's employees are technical users. Most are probably marketing dudes and lawyers Those techincal ppl know that IE sucks, that Outlook sucks, and that almost everything MS makes sucks.
I mean that you're always saying "Don't use Opera! Use Avant! It has copied all Opera's features, that's cool, and it uses IE, so you will still be able to view all 'designed for IE' pages!". There really aren't much websites which do work in IE and don't in Opera. And even if there is one, you can still use IE! This person said it very well:

from: http://www.yohng.com/iebad.html

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It's hard just to switch from Windows to Macintosh or Linux, hard for your business and workflow, but a browser switch is easy and doesn't involve any expenses.

In case you will find that Mozilla doesn't work for some sites, you always can launch Internet Explorer at the same time.

I'm primarily using free Mozilla browser. I would recommend you to install Firebird browser, which is the same as Mozilla, but without the mail client.

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Wrong, the early versions of Mozilla were built of netscape, then later on Mozilla was completely rewritten.

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Wrong
The old Netscape engine (I don't know if it was all through 4.x or just 4.x) was called Mozilla, and therefore Netscape's rendering engine was Mozilla. It was never based in the Mozilla Suite (which only appeared with the rewrite of Netscape 4, as I said), but in a different rendering engine that coincidentally had the same name.

After Netscape 4's impossibility to innovate because of its codebase, the new Mozilla rendering engine was coded by the Mozilla Foundation, and the open source Mozilla Suite started releasing.

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Thats what I've found so far

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And that's exactly what I've told you

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Am I wrong now saying that Avant is an application which makes IE better, but still uses IE?

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Yes. Avant is better than IE, but uses IE's rendering engine (mshtml.dll) to render pages.

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I mean that you're always saying "Don't use Opera! Use Avant!

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And where exactly did I say that?

Opera is a great browser, which has since 7.0 an horrible bug that makes it impossible to run in any computer with many fonts or with Adobe's type manager installed, and therefore I have no chance of using it.

Firebox is too simple for me, and Mozilla is too complex.

Avant has all the features I need, renders most pages correctly (because everyone is forced to make them compatible with IE), never caused me any security problems (even though IE is more targeted with attacks due to its user base, I never had any problem), runs fast, is customisable, etc. etc. etc.

I still hate IE because I'm a web developer and have to go through its bugs in a regular basis. Using another browser won't help with that, so I just use what I'm more comfortable with.

No, I'm not lazy to switch, I tested and have installed in the same machine, and use regularly for testing pages:
-IE 6.0
-IE 5.0 SP2
-IE 4.0
-IE 3.0
-Firefox 0.8
-Mozilla 1.6+
-Opera 7.5

And I still prefer Avant. I also tried MyIE, and I prefer Avant.