Shoutbox

Please read what I posted. This is not a gang war: hence the reason I posted.

Ending it just shows lack of commitment to actually be civil to the other side.

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Originally posted by psyko
You are welcome to your forum any time you please and we have a strict ToS to protect users.

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No offense, but are you sure it doesn't discourage and anger them rather than protect them?

I mean, Greenboy seems to be making a big deal out of being called a "wanker" by GiantSpider, but stuff like that happens all the time... it's just human nature, IMO. Maybe on your forums you take action against stuff like that, but here we usually don't bother unless it gets worse. If we started disciplining members whenever they posted a trivial little insult, we'd be spending too much time dealing with that instead of stuff that actually matters. Plus, everyone would hate us for being evil.

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Originally posted by Greenboy^
I hope that the appropriate action will be taken against GS

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I'm just curious: what would you consider to be appropriate?

A quote from Chris Bulton on the Rules -

"These rules have not been enforced strictly enough, and therefore the quality of this forum seems to have degraded over time as more and more users tend to do what they want ignoring the community guidelines.

This announcement is to refresh everyones minds of these rules and to warn you that they will be strictly enforced from now on."

Well, obviously your user who used that word is violating the respect portion of your rules and you guys are supposed to enforce them strictly.  Anyways, our ToS doesn't discourage or anger anyone, as it expresses that we are a civilized, MSN programming-based community who will protect our user's rights, privacy, and beliefs; so they can enjoy a place where they won't feel scared to come...

tbh I found this funny... all this talk about respecting rules, strickt ToS's, etc... while I was banned by *beep* for no reason on MSNFanatic and then he goes lying about it to the other admins...

I don't give names for peace sake. This issue is old and dealt with and people can change (I hope)... but I still find it funny...

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
tbh I found this funny... all this talk about respecting rules, strickt ToS's, etc... while I was banned by *beep* for no reason on MSNFanatic and then he goes lying about it to the other admins...

I don't give names for peace sake. This issue is old and dealt with and people can change (I hope)... but I still find it funny...

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The reason being the amount of abuse I was receiving at the time in the msgplus IRC chan, for which I chose to refuse access to a number of users to the forums. But as you yourself said, carrying on that line of discussion will merely lead to tit for tat.

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I'm just curious: what would you consider to be appropriate?

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Each forum has their own set of rules and concordant consequences for violating them. On our forum they would either be warned through the warning system (which I'm aware isn't implemented on these forums) or by being banned.
When rules are set up on a forum, they need to be adhered to and enforced, otherwise people make a mockery of them.

The points that both of the staff here have raised actually have no bearing on what I posted earlier regarding the nature of the topic, and the request that this childish pettyness be stopped.

As you will recall, Doggie and other members of msnfanatic were forced to apologise to the Plus community after the spam that they posted here, and the abuse they gave to others; Kutforum was removed from power over at mess.be..
but so far, the plus users seem to be able to have double standards, such as the way that you discuss other users on your forums.

You would not receive the same treatment at msnfanatic, and we are asking you to do the same - and if you don't seem to want to agree to being civil to each other, then I think it's quite plain who is in the wrong here.

Greetz

Greenboy
msnfanatic.com administrator

As another note.. Giant Spider has crossed the threshold into Fanatic, you can checkit here:

http://www.msnfanatic.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9560&st=0&

You can read what I said there also, I want this to end: I apologise to those who I have been less than just towards in the past, and I hope that we can integrate our forum members more freely and without hassle, to build a stronger overall MSN community.

I'd also be much obliged if any admin would be able to reset my password for my 'greenboy' account =\

Greetz

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
tbh I found this funny... all this talk about respecting rules, strickt ToS's, etc... while I was banned by *beep* for no reason on MSNFanatic and then he goes lying about it to the other admins...

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Funny, I was too

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Originally posted by Greenboy^
The reason being the amount of abuse I was receiving at the time in the msgplus IRC chan, for which I chose to refuse access to a number of users to the forums. But as you yourself said, carrying on that line of discussion will merely lead to tit for tat.

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I believe that was because you were acting inappropriately on #msgplus.

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Originally posted by Greenboy^
Each forum has their own set of rules and concordant consequences for violating them. On our forum they would either be warned through the warning system (which I'm aware isn't implemented on these forums) or by being banned.
When rules are set up on a forum, they need to be adhered to and enforced, otherwise people make a mockery of them.

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I would agree, which is happening alot around here.

I want to see both communities get along, because as you're said, they are the two biggest English MSN forums around, and there are alot of people within these communities that have valuable knowledge.

I have reset your password too, i queried you on IRC about it excpet you aren't there.

    It's a sad thing this "war" between two great communities. I for one have enough of this quarrel and want this to stop. I mean, for God's sake, both them are two of the greatest MSN related communities out there. If we were to stop this petty fighting and all got along, we would be forming the perfect unison of MSN communities yet. MSN Fanatic deals with programmining, whilst we (Messenger Plus!), deal with all the other MSN Messenger/Windows Messenger related content and support - without the presence of Mess.be's forums the burden of providing support for MSN software is layed upon us. In the end, we both deal with the same topics, same questions, same troubles etc.. why then, do we have to dislike each other? I mean, ok, half of you guys probably have no clue what I'm on about. But those of you that have seen how damaging these fights can be, why can't we just get along? I know it's not my right to judge anyone or anything, but it's in my honest opinion, that some of the members of this community have been immature and should grow up. Ridiculing and making degratory comments towards other members, not just MSN Fanatic members is not allowed on this community - so stop being little kids, grow up and adhere to the rules.

    Without a doubt, everyone that uses MSN's software will greatly benefit from our peace. There are very talented and helpful individuals here and at MSN Fanatic and if we were to get along, maybe..just maybe, we could learn from each other and benefit from MSN Fanatic's knowledge as they may benefit than ours. If we continue to fight, Messenger Plus!'s reputation will go down, the software's support will degrade - because we are losing a large community's support and as a result, the amount of people that use Messenger Plus! will lower because Internet Wars can get bitter and people can so easily boycott Messenger Plus! as a result of this silly war. People don't care what they say or who they say it to, as you'll probably never see that person ever again in life and so will never have to deal with your actions against them. Just give it a try people, respect MSN Fanatic's members and they'll respect you. Topics like this never do any good. People like me will just come along and lecture you guys on how to behave as if they were your parents. I don't know if I'm considered a respected/senior member, but seeing as I've been here long enough to consider myself as one, I'm  giving you my advise as a senior and respected member. Please just stop these petty quarrels, start over and let's improve both communities. Let's work hand in hand to make what could be, the best MSN related communities ever.

    I'm sure no one wants to hold grudges against people they don't know. MSN Fanatic is a great community, I'm a part of it and at the same time Messenger Plus! is a great community too. Now although they did make inappropriate comments..etc..etc.. it's all in the past. Please, let's just start over - start from the beginning. Our main priority is to help others, right? Well, I'm pretty sure it's the same over at MSN Fanatic. All they want to do is help..so why don't we help each other, help other people =)?

    Greenboy's right, if you set rules you should enforce them. By being overly nice to people they'll just see this and take advantage of the situation. People only go against the rules because they know that the staff aren't enforcing them very strongly. Most people just sit and laugh at the rules whenever someone reminds them of their existance. Here's another instance of this happening,

    GiantSpider - I'm sure you are aware of the rules of this forum? If not, read them again. You have no right to go and insult people, even more so, it infringes the forum policy..technically..

    [*]Respect: Members should respect others, and avoid making derogatory comments or giving rude treatment (flaming, for example). Also respect the privacy of others, and don't share their personal information without permission.

    I know I'm not staff, but if no ones going to point out the rules and show people what they did wrong, I'll do it. You should be showing respect for ANY member, regardless who they are. Your comment about Greenboy is completely unacceptable, I doubt you expected to be lectured on this, but there you are. Please grow up and stop insulting people. You've had your fun and I'm sorry if you're the only one I've caught, but I've been too busy to be on these forums to "catch" anyone else

    Most of you people think it's fine to swear, think it's fine to start fighting, think it's fine to spam. Well it's not. If you think it is, then please read this (yes, they do exist). After you've done that, remember that because you are a devoted, old member of this community. It's your duty to set a good example for the new members that flow in daily. If the experienced members of this community were to take up a stand and set a good example for everyone, then I'm sure everyone else will follow suit (with the occasional trouble maker than any community gets every so often). If we want to make our precious community a better source of support, then we should start by changing ourselves and the way we respond to challenges, rudeness etc..., rather than making the new members model themselves to our "ways". Patchou has said it before, the best way to stop people from getting angry with you/showing no gratitude for your help is to smile and help them with a smile regardless of how they treat you on first "contact" and any other support calls following that.

    If you've been banned or whatever by an MSN Fanatic please forgive them, I can't apologise on their behalf but we are all humans, we all get mad, we all make mistakes. The guys over there are cool, serious about their talents and nice..just give them a chance please..I'm sure they'll give you one too.

    Anyway, I'm basically trying to tell you guys to give this peace between communities a try. No one should be branded and then disregarded from some places just because of their beliefs or what "side" they are on. If you are willing to try being at piece with MSN Fanatic, then you're moving on to make Messenger Plus! a better community. That is what we need right now, we're broken because the helpers/members keep getting annoyed at people who complain about the sponsor or at people who don't follow the rules, don't search or edit their posts..etc.. but most pressingly, we are broken because a number of our members are "our enemies", were, our enemies. Just because someone voices their opinion, it doesn't give you the right to flame them or attack them. They have a right to their opinion, remember that. Just kindly move them in the right direction and KINDLY inform them of their wrongs. By replying just the for the sole purpose of "settling the score" with sponsorware complainers, you are just further degrading the quality of this community.

    Just think about what I've said (I probably made many mistakes or said some pointless crap, but oh well. That's life.), have an open mind towards this change and let it flow. See how it goes, please.

    -EvilSeph,
    evilseph-at-digital-fanatic.com Some rank at some place (Administrator @ Digital-Fanatic.com).
    Messenger Plus! Helper and Critic

hmm.. i'll add a lil comment.. its sad to think someone is to be offended with one little word, "Wanker".. then preach the ToS to everyone to think everyone doesnt read it or blind, to be honest, someone preaching your own ToS to your faces(msgplus folk and their admins, im sure they arent blind greenboy and co)  is somewhat of an insult.. every forum has their rules and the way they run their forums, am i correct all you msgplus faithful? so as members of both, i'll adjust accordingly to each ones rules and it isnt that hard.

i won't be able to see it till l8r on 2nite, cause it sez i don't have permission ...