Shoutbox

Well, I don't see politics in calling it Valencian. The language spoken in Valencia, besides from Spanish, is Valencian (a variant/dialect of Catalan). Noone in Catalonia speaks Valencian Catalan as long as they're not Valencians themselves. Hence it doesn't imply any political meaning, just geographical, in my honest opinion.
But it's true, political tendences use to deploy language as a sword for their cause and, in this case, claim Valencian to be a language or a dialect, leaving any philologic proof out.

Edit: use the Edit button

Thanks for clearing that for me
At least it's the most spoken dialect, and it's true that it has similarities with some dialects of Teruel (that all I can say).

The name is not the problem, the problem is the use of it. If it's between other names like Spanish, Portuguese, Engish atc, and plus, there's catalan around, it seems you are referring to an other language, that's why I suggested either to put ALL the names of different languages (American, English, Australian, etc) and keep valencian and catalan (plus balearian), or name it Catalan (valencian).
And believe me, the name is SO politized, that's why is always worthy to be specific.

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Originally posted by laiabe
the name is SO politized

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Well then, for those who believe Valencian is their own language (because of their ideology or they subjective reason), they have Valencian. For those who (objectively or ideologically) think that Valencian is the same as Catalan they have two Catalans to choose.

I mean, this piece of software won't pass an ISO evaluation and language won't be revised by professionals. Mistakes are usually spotted in many language-files. I think it's not very relevant indeed.

As Catalan, I don't see any proof of politcs in calling it Valencian. We usually say "mira, parla Valencià" and not "mira, parla Català de València)" ('look, s/he speaks Valencian/Catalan of Valencia').

From hearing somebody speak Valencian we automatically assume the person comes from the Valencian Community and surroundings. For this reason the dialect belongs to Valencia and it's Valencian (despite of the fact of being Catalan, Spanish or Soumi indeed).

quote:

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Originally posted by laiabe
American

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That would offend many, many Latinamerican

[off topic] oh no!! another catalan/valencian thread [/off topic]

hi laiabe, i'm the spanish (spain) translator of plus (just so you know me). I only want to say one thing (i'm a bit tired of these threads, there have been quite a lot of them; you can search them and read my replies).

About it being a political issue: I don't tihnk so. Translators (of both catalan and valencian) have put all their effort in make a good translation and i'm sure they weren't thinking about if this or that is or not a dialect or if they should or not put this because of politic reasons...


And the more important part of people related to plus: its users. They just want the software being translated in a language where they feel better reading it. I don't think users think about politic when they choose the language. For example, I can use plus in english, catalan, valencian and spanish-latino; however I choose spanish spain. Why? because i feel more confortable in that language and don't care about anything more.

So, sumarizing, as KeyStrom has said: if they (the valencian translators) have done a work and spent their time; why remove it or change it? just let that translation be there. It doesn't hurt anyone.

pd: oh the post is longer than what i wanted to write

Well, I'm Disablez, the other Spanish translator. And having in mind that I'm surely going to get a ban someday, I'll just say things in a calm way... not exactly the way I'm thinking them but...

Why the hell can't you stop complaining about Valencian ? THIS IS A DAMNED WEBSITE ABOUT A MESSENGER ADDON, not a demonstration nor a congress, most people here don't give a **** about politics, if you can't really live with Valencian calling itself Valencian, go see Bill Gates and tell him your disgraces, or buy a van and create your own Catalan Genetically Enhanced Liberation Army, but stop it here ok ?

As people has said, the language has been accepted popularly, even if it's a dialect, even if it's not recognized as a full language, so let it be called whatever the author wanted to call it, or the people who uses it wanted to call it. Of course disliking it is acceptable, but being offended ? Grow up a bit, man, surely there are things and injustices in this world that deserve your hatred, just a little more. You just remind me about those people that can't speak in Spanish to you, knowing you don't know a word about Catalan. Little children. I'm Spanish and I'm talking in English here, so everyone can understand me, that's what a language is for, even if UK has Gibraltar so I'm totally angry at English people so I can't speak English... plain absurd.

</IRONY MODE ON>
And if we're going to extremes, Spanish is the one and only language aceepted as official in all Spanish territory. You all HAVE TO know it, you all can use it, so let's kill Euskara, Catalan (badly talked Spanish, btw), Valencian, Catalan(Valencia)... even Galician if someone dares to translate it...

</IRONY MODE OFF>

Que, como he dicho otras veces, una cosa es tener una cultura propia, y otra llorar porque las matrículas llevan una E, o porque no me aceptan el carnet vasco...

Will this be the last Valencian thread? Will I be banned?  Never know...

quote:

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Originally posted by jpg050
Catalan (badly talked Spanish, btw)

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Una cosa es que no te guste que Franco haya muerto, o que no te guste que haya otras realidades furea de las que vives, la otra es que te pongas en un rincón a cerrarte en tu mundo y veas cosas que no son.

La única palabra para definirte no la voy a usar porque me banearán.

I agree with jpg050's post.

quote:

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Originally posted by jpg050
or buy a van and create your own Catalan Genetically Enhanced Liberation Army,

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tarry
Una cosa es que no te guste que Franco haya muerto, o que no te guste que haya otras realidades furea de las que vives, la otra es que te pongas en un rincón a cerrarte en tu mundo y veas cosas que no son.

La única palabra para definirte no la voy a usar porque me banearán.

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note he was with the irony mode turned on calm down a bit, tarry.

Ironia - n.f. Forma de burla fina y disimulada que consiste en modificar o cambiar el valor de las palabras, en hacer entender lo contrario de lo que se piensa.

En cuanto a Franco, mira q cosas q ni le conocí...  y de facha tengo poco... así que por ahí lo siento pero no. Si le guardas rencor personalmente, o te han educado en la gloria "catalufa", que no catalana (esto último contado por un catalán), quizá eres tú el que debiera entender que hay otras realidades, que estás dentro de otros mundos, que uno puede ser catalán y poder hablar en español, en gallego o en lo q se le salga de ... mientras que el otro le entienda...  que un lenguaje es para ENTENDERSE, no para usarlo políticamente, hacerse el guay en el congreso hablando en catalán, ni para cabrearse por llamarlo de un modo u otro, es lo mas ridiculo del mundo... si tan liberal es defender una lengua propia (con lo cual estoy de acuerdo), por qué tanto rollo con reprimir, fagocitar y reclamar el valenciano como versión cutre del catalán? A ver si, después de todo, no voy a ser yo el amante de Franco...

 

quote:

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Originally posted by jpg050
And if we're going to extremes, Spanish is the one and only language aceepted as official in all Spanish territory.

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You should probably re-read the Spanish Constitution, at least article 3:

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Artículo 3
1. El castellano es la lengua española oficial del Estado. Todos los españoles tienen
el deber de conocerla y el derecho a usarla.
2. Las demás lenguas españolas serán también oficiales en las respectivas
Comunidades Autónomas de acuerdo con sus Estatutos.
3. La riqueza de las distintas modalidades lingüísticas de España es un patrimonio
cultural que será objeto de especial respeto y protección.

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[irony]
Spanish is a wrongly talked Arabic and jpg050 is a real Torrente
[/irony]

quote:

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Originally posted by jpg050
Que, como he dicho otras veces, una cosa es tener una cultura propia, y otra llorar porque las matrículas llevan una E, o porque no me aceptan el carnet vasco...

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You should leave politics outside this thread, as you said in your contradictive post .

I feel offended by people insulting ideologies like you. Not by Valencian being called Catalan or vice-versa.

Key, como bien ha dicho Choli, eso está dentro del modo ironía... , de todos modos el artículo 3 no me contradice, yo decía que el español es el único idioma oficial de TODA España... 

And if we're going to extremes,


Spanish is the one and only language aceepted as official in all Spanish territory. You all HAVE TO know it, you all can use it

El castellano es la lengua española oficial del Estado. Todos los españoles tienen el deber de conocerla y el derecho a usarla.


no sé si bien traducido o no... pero se parece bastante...

Y lo de la política, en el último thread que contesté, que entre medias habrá habido otros pocos,  ya expliqué esa frase del carnet vasco... que una cosa es reclamar una herencia cultural, que me parece perfecto, y otra entretenerse en pijadas políticas de si se llama Catalán valencianítico o catalán a secas... o si en la matrícula pone tal o cual... o me dirás q no es absurdo armar la q se arma por una matrícula que ni la va a mirar nadie ? ¿O que cada 15 dias haya que escuchar rollos sobre el valenciano ? Espero que los chinos no empiecen a hablar sobre si es mejor el Big5 y el simplificado es impuro...

quote:

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[irony]
Spanish is a wrongly talked Arabic and jpg050 is a real Torrente
[/irony]

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Mmm... wasn't it Latin ?...