Shoutbox

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Originally posted by lopardo
If you don't go to any "weird" pages, nothing will happen...

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Honestly, any standard web surfing, wherever you go, for a few hours, will get your pc infested with worms, in no time. With an unpatched browser, that is. These are things that were tested and tested again. And if unpatched browser is so vulnerable it means lots of pirates are out there, and are able to attack more recent browsers as well.

quote:

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Originally posted by lopardo
Have you ever suffered a serious attack? You're too paranoid

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Actually, not really, knowing that our pcs have been infected more than numerous times by worms who enter them by using microsoft Services which have vulnerabilities. Like NetBIOS, or others.

quote:

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Originally posted by lopardo
(not to mention the misuse of "retard")

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Yes, pardon me for sounding rude. =)

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Originally posted by WDZ
Windows is a very good OS, and I trust it.

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It is undenyably a very good OS, one of the top OSes out there, but it doesn't mean it can be trusted, solely. Without a firewall and a virusscanner, Windows OSes are deer in a lion cage.

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Originally posted by WDZ

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Originally posted by lopardo
You're too paranoid

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* WDZ agrees

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Originally posted by lopardo
OK, so you don't trust MS products stability, but you shouldn't say something like "And as we all know, being a retard includes trusting Microsoft software", you'll scare newbies (not to mention the misuse of "retard").

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* WDZ agrees with that as well.


I've been using Windows for years, I know it well, and I've never been infected with a virus/trojan or been hacked. Windows is a very good OS, and I trust it. It has never done anything serious enough to break that trust. I resent being called a retard for that.

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That sounds like me. I haven't had a virus/trojan since we have had this computer, which btw is like 7 years old.. Noone has ever hacked me nor never will..I better not say that cause I know people are goign to try. I will give anyone 100 dollers if they can hack me!

Sean, turn off all your firewalls etc, then say the same thing again.

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Originally posted by lhunath
Without a firewall and a virusscanner, Windows OSes are deer in a lion cage.

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I'm saying you can't trust Windows. You can when you secure it with third party software. But then, you're trusting the software, not the OS.

actually, if you run windows update frequently, and just be generally vigialant (i.e. not downloading document.zip etc...), then there is absolutly nothing to worry about

quote:

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Originally posted by lhunath

quote:

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Originally posted by lopardo
If you don't go to any "weird" pages, nothing will happen...

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Honestly, any standard web surfing, wherever you go, for a few hours, will get your pc infested with worms, in no time. With an unpatched browser, that is. These are things that were tested and tested again. And if unpatched browser is so vulnerable it means lots of pirates are out there, and are able to attack more recent browsers as well.

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I meant porno, warez and stuff when I said "weird pages". I really don't understand how, even with an unpatched IE 6.0, you can get worms by just browsing. An attacker would have to make you enter to a page with malicious code in order to exploit a vulnerability (you have to enter that page), so I don't see what the big deal is...

quote:

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Originally posted by lhunath

quote:

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Originally posted by lopardo
Have you ever suffered a serious attack? You're too paranoid

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Actually, not really, knowing that our pcs have been infected more than numerous times by worms who enter them by using microsoft Services which have vulnerabilities. Like NetBIOS, or others.

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What? If you're talking about worms like Blaster and Sasser, you should know the patches were available like a month before the worms spread. And the patches fixed the bugs (not as you said, "Microsoft products aren't to be trusted (generally), meaning, exactly what the sentence says, that they may fail you where you would expect them not to. (Like after you just installed all security patches available...)").

quote:

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Originally posted by lhunath

quote:

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Originally posted by WDZ
Windows is a very good OS, and I trust it.

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It is undenyably a very good OS, one of the top OSes out there, but it doesn't mean it can be trusted, solely. Without a firewall and a virusscanner, Windows OSes are deer in a lion cage.

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quote:

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Originally posted by lhunath
You can when you secure it with third party software. But then, you're trusting the software, not the OS.

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I never used any virus scanner, never found a really good one, so I just don't open suspicious files (common sense) and I never got infected. Windows XP has its own firewall, and does its job pretty darn well, so you don't need third party software. So, I agree 100% with WDZ and saralk.

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Originally posted by lopardo
An attacker would have to make you enter to a page with malicious code in order to exploit a vulnerability (you have to enter that page), so I don't see what the big deal is...

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Well, I think there are ways of putting malicious code in images, so you could load a forum thread or something where someone has a dodgy off-site avatar, and the bad stuff would be loaded without you knowing. Keeping Windows patched will usually prevent that though.

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Originally posted by lopardo
I never used any virus scanner, never found a really good one, so I just don't open suspicious files (common sense) and I never got infected.

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Yeah... When I had Win98, I had absolutely no firewall or anti-virus (because the PC was so slow ) and I was fine with common sense.

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Windows XP has its own firewall, and does its job pretty darn well, so you don't need third party software.

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Yeah, I agree... Windows Firewall seems pretty good from experience/testing and stuff I've read about it. Though the new icon is a little dodgy...

quote:

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Originally posted by lopardo
I never used any virus scanner, never found a really good one, so I just don't open suspicious files (common sense) and I never got infected. Windows XP has its own firewall, and does its job pretty darn well, so you don't need third party software. So, I agree 100% with WDZ and saralk.

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Include me in.... to many people these days are too paranoid. Using common sense is often forgotten and people install 5 virusscanner/firewalls and all that stuff and then they complain they can't open certain things. Indeed, the firewall included in Windows does his job VERY well. The only negative thing you can say about it is that it doesn't have many features/options to set. But actually that's a good thing for 90% of all people. A decent firewall doesn't need hundreds of whistles and bells. But of course, it is from MS, so everybody says it sux (without any reason, they just believe and repeat everything bad that they see on the net because they are paranoid, and the ball gets rolling)....

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Originally posted by WDZ
and the bad stuff would be loaded without you knowing.

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This can be prevented easly with the normal internet settings of Windows and the normal settings in every browser.

Options like: "Ask if an ActiveX which isn't marked as safe must be executed" or "Ask to download/execute ActiveX elements without signature"... those things. Or the "download and execute immediatly"-options in some browsers.......

If you set those options to "ask" instead of "allow", NOTHING will be executed that could be dodgy without you knowing it.

So in short: no need for bloated-3rd-party-scanners-custom-made-for-paranoid-people-tools . Just common sense and sensable settings in Windows and browsers.

But, on topic... Scone, if you scan your PC for trojans and nothing is found, turn on the windows firewall (or your own software firewall) and that "hacker" has no change in doing anything as the firewall will keep the outside connection closed IF the "hacker" even manages to get your current IP (you indeed will have a dynamic IP which changes with every internet connection (unless you payed A LOT for your connection and in that case you will know when you have a static IP)).

A true hacker wont bother hacking your PC, trust me....

Of course common sense and tweaking your settings so that everything is safe is very possible to keep you clean, but please.
CookieRevised, you know very well that Windows XP is an OS which almost All new multimedia pcs have installed, meaning that any dumb and ignorant home user will have a defaults package. Meaning that they run with the defaults and cannot, because they don't know how to, set up a decent and secure system. I do not believe the windows firewall to be on by default, although I'm not sure about that.
Now, as for commen sense, yes, that's the one and main thing that keeps you clean, even more so than any virusscanner, firewall, etc. But how many, as for the target of the Windows OS, home users have that kind of commen sense?
We're running a home LAN here, and all the pcs getting infected are Jasper and Simon's, whom are my two brothers. Well look at that. I don't run any sort of virusscanner, and almost all ports from the router are forwarded to My pc. Meaning, hell; their lack of commen sense is what fooks up almost every time.

And they're good with pcs. My mum, she's bad. And she's better than a commen home user.

Windows OS is targetted for dumb people. And it's a shame to have dumb people online through one of the least secure recent OSes available. Because it's exactly those who should be protected by the defaults.
Luckily, Microsoft is recently making alot of moves towards safer OSes, meaning that, yes, XP is thousands and thousands of times better than 98, and SP2 seems very promising. Windows Server 2003 is an OS which has never been safer.
It seems promesing, but as of now, the foundations are the same, and are vulnerable (netBIOS, IE, ...). They are still untrustworthy.

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
IF the "hacker" even manages to get your current IP (you indeed will have a dynamic IP which changes with every internet connection (unless you payed A LOT for your connection and in that case you will know when you have a static IP)).

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At least you seem to agree with me on one point. =)

quote:

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
(you indeed will have a dynamic IP which changes with every internet connection (unless you payed A LOT for your connection and in that case you will know when you have a static IP)).

A true hacker wont bother hacking your PC, trust me....

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In the UK static IPs are about the same cost as dynamic IPs, it varies between ISPs, so maybe s/he does have a dynamic IP.

And i agree about the hacker thing, unless you are the child of some FBI agent or something, no serious hacker is gona bother hacking you, most of the people who try to 'hack' your pc (if you can call what they do hacking, what they do pretty much involves tricking inexperienced people into downloading a file, and no actual skill) will do it using some trojan horse or something, having a firewall, even windows firewall, will stop anything bad happening

well lhunuth i have no virus protection and only the windows firewall(which i find quite sufficent). i use internet explorer and have not tweaked my system in any way to make it more secure. i simply dont go on weird sites thats ny only precaution. so i guess you would describe me as about a un secure as you can get as i relie o windows alone to protect me.
yet when i do my monthly virus and spy-adware scan nothing is detected. i find windows to provide all the protection i need.