Shoutbox

Is there a link 2 download it?

Or is it private

I guess Patchou can download the beta from a restricted site, because he is a Microsoft MVP.

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Originally posted by alexp2_ad
Anybody seen this on Neowin???

Ouch... that's nasty, and I thought microsoft were being nice to Patchou now...

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It says Messenger Plus is an Adware Bundler which is true.

It says that the Sponsor is OPTIONAL. This is also true.

It does NOT say that Messenger Plus is spyware.

Well, it also says that the software performs hazardous actions one your computer and that it should not be trusted, which is wrong and attacks Messenger Plus! for no reason. If the default action is Ignore, why should it even be detected in the first place?

As for testing the software, I just downloaded the Giant Antispyware trial version on some download site.

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Originally posted by Sam Spade

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Originally posted by alexp2_ad
Anybody seen this on Neowin???

Ouch... that's nasty, and I thought microsoft were being nice to Patchou now...

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It says Messenger Plus is an Adware Bundler which is true.

It says that the Sponsor is OPTIONAL. This is also true.

It does NOT say that Messenger Plus is spyware.

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It says messenger plus on it's own, after installation is of a high threat level... surely that's a little harsh???

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Originally posted by alexp2_ad
It says messenger plus on it's own, after installation is of a high threat level... surely that's a little harsh???

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I think you will find it says the same thing about all adware bundlers.

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Originally posted by Patchou
Well, it also says that the software performs hazardous actions one your computer and that it should not be trusted, which is wrong

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Patchou, I can understand that for you (and many here) this is personal.  But the reality of life is that the act of encouraging a user to install adware is considered by the vast majority to be hazardous behaviour on the part of who or whatever is doing the encouraging.  And let's be honest, your install screens strongly discourage refusal of the sponsor program ("I refuse to support...").

Also, the MP Sponsor Program EULA says, among other things, that "C2 may from time to time, either automatically or through other means, distribute an update to the Software and/or may replace the Software with new versions, and may also modify the Software".  This is an open invitation to C2Media to change their software at any time, in any way they want with no restriction being placed on what changes may be made. 

We all know that you have said, many times, that you only want what is best for your users, but in the end the EULA states what C2Media can do and you, Patchou, have said that all you can do is make suggestions.   Just one example is your Getthefacts wherein you said: "I have absolutely no share whatsoever in this company and what they do with their software does not concern me directly. I make suggestions, we talk about things but that's where it ends." 

I do not want to see anybody stuck with one of the 'bad' versions of lop.com, and nothing in the EULA or on this site reassures me that this can not happen.  Therefore, installing the Sponsor Program is hazardous, and by extension the act of offering the Sponsor Program is hazardous.

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Originally posted by Patchou
and attacks Messenger Plus! for no reason. If the default action is Ignore, why should it even be detected in the first place?

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No reason? I disagree.  Please see above. 

As for 'why should it even be detected'... it should be detected because MP BUNDLES ADWARE.  That you don't want MP to be labelled an an adware bundler, don't bundle adware.  If you don't want MP to be accused of hazardous behaviour don't lay a guilt trip on users when offering adware and tighten up the EULA so that the sponsor program cannot be changed at any time, in any way, with no restriction on what changes can be made. 

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Originally posted by Patchoui
As for testing the software, I just downloaded the Giant Antispyware trial version on some download site.

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  Which site was that? I'm sure that you'd only use a legitimate download site, and  there are many in this forum that would love to have a look for themselves so please share.

In the alternative, perhaps you will post the *entire* Giant detection screen, including all text, not just the top portion snippet that has been displayed so far.

Actually, i installed the MP! version of c2media before but then uninstalled it because my dad didn't like it. the most is a toolbar and change in homepage(oh yes, it's hazardous ). like what others said, if this is labelled as security lvl high, you should really see other bundled adware. it's much worst

I just googled Giant and I foudn a site with the trial version is 2 minutes.

I understand what you're saying about the license, however, you would find the same clauses (if not more harsh) in any other license. The fact is that any software installed on your computer can decide to download and execute whatever it wants, C2Media's package is no different. The only thing you can do is trust the distributor, and in this case, its me. Categorizing softwares as "possibly dangerous" is too easy and prone to errors and unjustified diffamation.

With that kind of logic, I could consider Java as being potentially dangerous and make your system slower (which, in my opinion, it does) and ask my 7 million users at the next auto-update if they want to remove it from their system... this is completely deloyal and this kind of thing is starting to take some epic proportions. I'm not fighting so much for Messenger Plus! here, more for the idea that nowadays, any software that accuses another one of misconduct is automatically taken as a savior and the information it gives as a solid fact. This just frightens me for the future of software and the spirit of "free competition" if I may say.

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Originally posted by Sam Spade
Which site was that? I'm sure that you'd only use a legitimate download site, and  there are many in this forum that would love to have a look for themselves so please share.

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Well, the GIANT Anti-Spyware free trial was available in many download sites before MS bought GIANT, and many sites haven't been updated removing the download yet. It's completely "legitimate", it's a free trial version, not the internal testing version MS is distributing. Both detect Msgplus as spyware.

I think it's a misbehaviour by GIANT, not only in this case but in every optional bundler case. It should search for actual Adware/Spyware, not for software that could have installed adware/spyware if the user had agreed to it. The latter is probably easier to do, but it makes the product a nicely designed robotic and random add/remove programs script instead of an adware and spyware scanner/remover.

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Originally posted by Sam Spade
I think you will find it says the same thing about all adware bundlers.

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True, but unlike most adware bundled programs, the adware bundle in Messenger Plus! is completely optional. If other programs have a optional adware bundle then those shouldn't be detected either. What they can do at the most is detect the Plus! installer as possibly harmfull and detect the sponsor itself. But don't detect Messenger Plus! itself as harmfull when it was installed without the sponsor., it just doesn't make sense at all.

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Originally posted by Sam Spade
And let's be honest, your install screens strongly discourage refusal of the sponsor program ("I refuse to support...").

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The full line is "I refuse to give my support, install Messenger Plus! without the sponsor". The last part crearly tells you that Messenger Plus! will still be installed, even when you refuse the license. I think "I refuse to give my support..." was also choosen becouse only "I refuse" and "I accept" will confuse people with regular EULA's. Software with a regular EULA like that won't install at all when you refuse. So confused people will just choose accept be default because they think the must. My point is that it's clear very well that Messenger Plus! will still work even when you refuse the spnsor.

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Originally posted by Sam Spade
Therefore, installing the Sponsor Program is hazardous, and by extension the act of offering the Sponsor Program is hazardous.

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I think the hazardous is a big word, but i see you point. Like i said before, the Plus! installer could be detected as possibly hazardous. And they are fully right to detect the sponsor. However, when you have installed Messenger Plus! without any bit of the sponsor, it will still be detected as a high risk. This is the part that doesn't make sense. You can't do anything from within Messenger Plus! to enable the sponsor. The only way is trough the installer. So Plus! in an installed state shouldn't be targeted, just the sponsor itself, if the want the Plus! installer.

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Originally posted by FrozernFire
like what others said, if this is labelled as security lvl high, you should really see other bundled adware. it's much worst

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That's one of the biggest things i don't get Messenger Plus! itself has almost the highest rating it can gey, while it's one of the most harmless adware bundled programs out there.