Shoutbox

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
Then buy something from the Online Store, it's there especially for that purpose...

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But i thoguth all proceeds from the store goto charity not Patchou anyway?

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Originally posted by Dempsey
But i thoguth all proceeds from the store goto charity not Patchou anyway?

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Indeed. Anything you pay gets doubled and sent to the red cross.

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Originally posted by Anubis

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Originally posted by Dempsey
But i thoguth all proceeds from the store goto charity not Patchou anyway?

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Indeed. Anything you pay gets doubled and sent to the red cross.

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(and that can only be done because there is a sponsor in Plus. Don't even dream about that, about free PSPs and laptops, and about huge expensive servers running a sound emotions feature, if there wasn't an optional sponsor)

As Cookie mentioned, this has been gone over lots of times. Trust me, if Patchou had a better way of making money from his free software, he would be using it. Needless to say he doesn't like to be bashed in so many sites on the web for this "forced spyware" which is just clearly optional adware, but if he has to choose between quitting developing Plus and looking for an average job, or making money out of Plus, giving a part to the red cross, giving another part to users in the way of prizes, being able to mantain costly features (sounds) and sites (such as this very server, which IIRC is paid by the sponsor) and living as he deserves to live, then hell he'd chose the second option. And he has every right to do so.

A great move by Download.com. Unfortunately, most of the software with adware or spyware isn't as great as Messenger Plus!, many hide it in obfuscated setups or just don't give you an option to avoid it (i.e. Kazaa Media Desktop). Many are crappy programs that just live to make money from adware (read: weather icons, supposed spyware cleaners, etc.). Now Download.com is finally clean of all that. If Msgplus had to be removed, well, so be it. Download.com is not the primary source for Msgplus downloads anyway, and people are going to hear about its great features in any case.

That's my view about it. It doesn't affect Msgplus significantly, and it benefits us as Download.com users.

well said Guido

Messenger Plus! advertisements are directed to Msgplus.net
Most people who download Msg Plus! from Download.com, just come across it. I'm sure they will hear about it somewhere else, as it is described as the "Number One MSN Messenger Add-on"

Just because one site gets rid of Msgr Plus! doesn't mean it won't be as popular.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

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Originally posted by Chestah

    This puts Patchou in a really weird position.

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No it doesn't...

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Reasons? People are continually becomming more conscious of spyware/adware etc and even though we know that it is not this and its merely an optional sponsor the average public don't know this. No matter how much advertising and helping people, some just won't understand and will not use plus - this may be a minority but i can only see this increasing in the future. As people learn more about spyware they'll just categorise msgplus! as bad straight away before even investigating that its optional.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
The point is to promote Messenger Plus!, not to promote all the various unofficial sources where you can download Messenger Plus!.

Although, less people will stumble across Messenger Plus! now, this doesn't mean it goes against the purpose of promoting it...

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Patchou wants maximum visibility with the new version of Plus! Esp. because of the new custom emote sound feature which will attract even more users! The point of this competition is to let more people know about Plus! hence more people downloading it and using it!

Its discouraging while in the background many unofficial download sources that inevitably promote Plus through visibility are removing Plus! from their sites! As i said above: as more people are becomming aware of what dangerous spyware can do companies are mass producing anti-spyware software that catergorises Plus! as dangerous for your computer - even though we know even if the sponsor is installed its not dangerous at all, the general public will believe their anti-spyware software.

Basicially what i was saying is that Patchou wants to promote Plus! Get more people using it and hence he can continue to add even greater features due to a greater profit in the long term that he couldn't do before without this (Custom sounds servers). All the background activity going on at the moment which i only see to increase in the future is going against Patchou's original purpose of   this promotion.

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
(thus) No it isn't... The competition/promotion is for Messenger Plus! itself (and to download it from the official site, not for all the unofficial sources to download from.)

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Yes the competition is to promote Plus! - so more people will start using Patchou's software. Promotion = Attracting more users. With download.com simply removing programs such as Plus! this will automatically slightly lower the amount of new users downloading Plus! Initially this might not be much, except more people as a result of this will more vary of what Plus! contains in the installer and as a result a possible multiplyer effect in the future could happen. More sites might remove plus or contain negative publicity = less users downloading.

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Originally posted by chris4
Just because one site gets rid of Msgr Plus! doesn't mean it won't be as popular.

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True for the meanwhile, but as i've said above: more people are starting to think Plus! contains dangerous spyware and as more sites follow download.com's example this means even more (slightly) people won't know about plus that their could be if their was no sponsor. Also theres the issue with anti-spyware programs.

That's why Patchou's in a slightly strange predicament. He needs the optional sponsor program to live and to continue programming Plus! I'm sure that if everyone realised that the sponsor was not dangerous and it was completely optional there would be no problems. But not everyone knows this, espicially people that don't know alot about computers. All the recent action against programs even containing optional sponsor programs in the future could be even worse for Plus! and Patchou.

Yes agreed.

Many people are simply just labeling plus spyware and not using it at all. I'm sure you have all seen the thousands of "Is plus spyware threads" all over the internet. (In fact there was a new one on this forum today) The fact is some people do not know its optional, hell they dont even know its there untill they see its effects.

Remember most people who use plus are probally less computer illiterate than us. And when they think something is spyware, they will tell their friends not to download it etc etc......
And the trouble, the time, the effort taken for these people to work out how to get rid of it is enourmous.

A battle is being fought against adware by the majority of internet users. Seems funny that we here are the ones that are supporting it.

Adware is giving Msgplus! a bad repuatition in the wider msn community.

Exactly Rafy! It doesn't matter in the scheme of things that Plus! merely contains an optional sponsor. Download sites, anti-spyware programs, people that just don't know the exact differences about Plus's sponsor compared to dangerous spyware are creating bad publicity for Plus!

In a time when Patchou wants more users to use msgplus! because of the fabulous new custom emoticon sound feature and all this is happening (and i believe will have a multiplication effect in the near future with other sites/people following incorrect information) it is not good for Plus!

agree's with Cookie Chest,  an Cookie is right, , just cause Download.cpom  has removed MsgPlus from there download really doesnt Harm patchou at all,

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Originally posted by Chestah

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Originally posted by CookieRevised

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Originally posted by Chestah
This puts Patchou in a really weird position.

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No it doesn't...

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Reasons? People are continually becomming more conscious of spyware/adware etc

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And that is a good thing. People should be aware of which things are what.

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Originally posted by Chestah
and even though we know that it is not this and its merely an optional sponsor the average public don't know this. No matter how much advertising and helping people, some just won't understand and will not use plus - this may be a minority but i can only see this increasing in the future. As people learn more about spyware they'll just categorise msgplus! as bad straight away before even investigating that its optional.

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On the contrary, if people learn more about spyware and adware and stuff, they become more aware to read stuff, learn stuff, know stuff, etc and less people will categorize Plus! as bad malicious spyware, but rather as a program containing optional adware, which is, after all, the truth...

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Originally posted by Chestah

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Originally posted by CookieRevised
The point is to promote Messenger Plus!, not to promote all the various unofficial sources where you can download Messenger Plus!. Although, less people will stumble across Messenger Plus! now, this doesn't mean it goes against the purpose of promoting it...

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Patchou wants maximum visibility with the new version of Plus! Esp. because of the new custom emote sound feature which will attract even more users! The point of this competition is to let more people know about Plus! hence more people downloading it and using it!

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Yes, but not by downloading it from various unofficial sites. There is a massive huge difference between promoting Plus!, and promoting to download it from unofficial sites (which is NOT a good thing).

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Originally posted by Chestah
Its discouraging while in the background many unofficial download sources that inevitably promote Plus through visibility are removing Plus! from their sites! As i said above: as more people are becomming aware of what dangerous spyware can do companies are mass producing anti-spyware software that catergorises Plus! as dangerous for your computer - even though we know even if the sponsor is installed its not dangerous at all, the general public will believe their anti-spyware software.

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You are putting things too much on 1 heap (is that an english expression?):
It is not because 1 company has now a zero-tolerance to any form of advertising that suddenly everybody is going to make anti-spyware software that will categorise Plus! as being bad and that everybody is blindly going to believe that....

And besides, what is wrong with a zero-tolerance to advertising? They didn't say Plus! is a malicous spyware, didn't they? And companies which make anti-spyware software do not depend on such download sites to base their findings on either.

Those two things aren't related.

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Originally posted by Chestah
All the background activity going on at the moment which i only see to increase in the future is going against Patchou's original purpose of this promotion.

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Nope, it isn't....

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Originally posted by Chestah
Yes the competition is to promote Plus! - so more people will start using Patchou's software. Promotion = Attracting more users. With download.com simply removing programs such as Plus! this will automatically slightly lower the amount of new users downloading Plus!

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Promotion = Attracting more users => means attracting more users to www.msgplus.net, not to download.com!

And tbh, download.com wasn't much of a promotion to Plus! anyways if you read all the stupid comments from people. Removing Plus! from there can be actually a good thing...

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Originally posted by Chestah

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Just because one site gets rid of Msgr Plus! doesn't mean it won't be as popular.

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True for the meanwhile, but as i've said above: more people are starting to think Plus! contains dangerous spyware

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No... If it isn't on download.com in the first place, it will not have stupid and false comments which say it contains spyware in the first place... (as it are those comments on such sites which people base their "findings" on)

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Originally posted by Chestah
and as more sites follow download.com's example this means even more (slightly) people won't know about plus that their could be if their was no sponsor.

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Errrmm... hu? The only disadvantage from removing it from download.com is that people will not know about the existence of Plus! if they go to there. Unless they visit decent sites which state the truth about it (mess.be, fanatic, plus forums, etc). The big advantages is that stupid anti-Plus! comments aren't present anymore on download.com and above all can't be read and believed by those new people.

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Originally posted by Chestah
Also theres the issue with anti-spyware programs.

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These have nothing todo with the download.com issue at all.

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Originally posted by Chestah
I'm sure that if everyone realised that the sponsor was not dangerous and it was completely optional there would be no problems. But not everyone knows this, espicially people that don't know alot about computers.

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Hence removing Plus! from sites where any dipsh*t can enter a comment can be a good thing...

If it means that thousand ("stupid") people can't read, believe and spread the false comments anymore, against a few hundred (sensible) people who can read between the BS and who otherwise would download Plus!, then it is a very good thing (even good for the promotion).

"better no promotion then bad promotion"

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Originally posted by -rafy-
Many people are simply just labeling plus spyware and not using it at all. I'm sure you have all seen the thousands of "Is plus spyware threads" all over the internet. (In fact there was a new one on this forum today) The fact is some people do not know its optional, hell they dont even know its there untill they see its effects.

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they label it as that mostly because they read the comments on it on sites like download.com...

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Originally posted by -rafy-
Remember most people who use plus are probally less computer illiterate than us.

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1) And thus can't distinguish between a true comment and a false comment on such sites.
2) And thus didn't know that Plus! once was available on download.com in the first place (to wonder why it was removed).

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Originally posted by -rafy-
A battle is being fought against adware by the majority of internet users. Seems funny that we here are the ones that are supporting it.

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We are not supporting that. We are supporting the fact that people should be AWARE of which things are what and which things they install and what those software packages do... aka: we support "knowledge"...

If people are "educated" (wha, fancy word ), like we try to do here, they become aware of the major differences in spyware, adware, virusses, etc and  there wouldn't be any problem in the first place.

This is just the same as the fact that I never was (and never will be) a big supporter of direct download/mirror links to software on unofficial sites but rather direct links to informative official sites where the user has all the crucial info he needs...

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Originally posted by Chestah
It doesn't matter in the scheme of things that Plus! merely contains an optional sponsor. Download sites, anti-spyware programs, people that just don't know the exact differences about Plus's sponsor compared to dangerous spyware are creating bad publicity for Plus!

In a time when Patchou wants more users to use msgplus! because of the fabulous new custom emoticon sound feature and all this is happening (and i believe will have a multiplication effect in the near future with other sites/people following incorrect information) it is not good for Plus!

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That's all and great, but what's your solution? Removing the sponsor? Replacing it with an ad banner in the preferences panel? That would:

a) increase Plus popularity significantly
b) decrease Patchou's income completely or significantly
c) make features such as the one you mention, sound emotions, financially inviable. They are not free to run.

If you have a better viable solution, then please let us know about it. I'm sure Patchou is all for improving Plus (he showed it several times when forcing the sponsor company to change the agreement, etc.).

We know many people don't understand that it is optional adware and that there is no harm if they don't accept it, but that's how things are. We know many will just prefer to bash Patchou and Plus! in as many websites as they find without even checking the facts before. But there isn't a better solution so far. That's the only way of Plus surviving, and more than 10 million people seem to prefer having a gentle question in the setup than seeing Plus die while Patchou looks for another full-time job to live.